So Snopes Covers For Obama

[SW03ES]

Maybe this Man better explains the destruction that this administration has performed. Not sure when he actually presented this info, but it is truely very alarming.

Subject: FACTS ABOUT DR. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, MD

1. Born: March 13, 1950

2. Birthplace: New York City, New York

3. Raised in Montreal, Canada

4. Attended Mc Gill University and Harvard Medical School

5. 1972 diving accident left him paralyzed from the neck on down.

6. Directed psychiatric research for the Carter administration

7. Began writing career in 1981 with The New Republic

8. Helped develop the "Reagan Doctrine" in the 80's

9. Appointed to Presidential Council on Bioethics in 2002

Dr. Krauthammer is frequently on the Fox News Channel.

Certainly a non biased source of information.

He's also wrong on a lot of points.

Most scary is his healthcare program, because if you make it FREE and add 46,000,000 people to a Medicare-type single-payer system, the costs will go through the roof. The only way to control costs is with massive RATIONING of services, like in Canada

People need to actually read the healthcare bill (again, the right doesn't want to because they want to cram it down the throats of well meaning, but frankly uneducated and ignorant middle American conservative voters to scare the bejeezus out of them).

Nobody is making healthcare free. There is no public option, no single payer system in this bill. If you add 46M people...you add 46M PAYING customers. RIGHT NOW those 46M receive healthcare for free because they are uninsured. The bill provides subsidies and tax credits for the lower end of the spectrum to help them PAY FOR THE COVERAGE. It must be PAID FOR.

Paying for FREE college education is his goal

Can I vote for him now or do I have to wait until next year? And what a monster he is...wanting everyone to go to college. This man MUST be stopped!

This is a major issue. Something has to be done to make a college education more affordable for ordinary people. I was fortunate enough that my parents were able to pay for my college education, my wife was not. I have no student loans, she has $80k worth...and that was after some grants and scholarships. We went to the same school and got the same degree. If you look at all the other nations we compete with, ALL OF THEM have some sort of public university system. Private universities too sure, but some public university system that is accessible to everyone as long as they work hard and get good grades.

The costs of college are skyrocketing out of control. I sit here around the time when we're thinking of having kids and my main concern is being able to send them to college. I want to be able to give my kids what I had, the understanding that college is the normal stepping stone beyond high school, I want there to be no chance my kids might not go to college. Yet, the costs are so huge now...imagine what they will be like 20 years from now when our kids would be going to college. Will it even be possible to save up enough money within those 20 years without sacrificing our own retirement? If this is my concern with the amount of money I make, what must other people be going through?

If we want to be able to compete with the rest of the world, we need some sort of public university system that still doesn't cost a family $40k to send their kids to college.

Also in those years his health disaster will continue to downturn the economy due to all of the hidden laws that will further tear down our economic stability

Describe how please.

THere are so many clauses that are going to tax us out of any chance of reducing debt.

Please list these clauses.

[pj8708]

I read this on Huffington Post today re the financial crisis in Europe. I thought this gentleman's quote at the bottom was a perfect description of our current congress.

Nationalist sentiments in many European countries have traditionally limited collective action, with voters repulsed by the thought of handing more power to European bureaucrats in Brussels. Speaking in 2007, Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, famously put it this way: "We all know what to do but we don't know how to get reelected once we have done it."

[lenore]

Friend of mine years ago said the only solution is to hold politicians to their word, if they didnt keep their promises you should hang them on Pennsylvania avenue with a sign saying I failed my promise...Then the next politician might think twice...

[SW03ES]

So...now you're saying we should assassinate our elected officials if they fail to live up to their campaign promises?

I honestly don't even know if you're kidding anymore...

[pj8708]

Steve,..I didn't mean to double post this so feel free to erase it.

PJ

[lenore]

Hey the real assasination will happen when America wakes up and votes the bums out.

[SW03ES]

Hey the real assasination will happen when America wakes up and votes the bums out.

You didn't say no...

So I am to believe that you are in favor of public lynchings of elected officials if they don't carry out their campaign promises?

[lenore]

Just like a liberal standing on symantecs. Of course I wouldnt lynch them, vote them out yes. I was just bringing a point of how lying our politicians are and well fed they are by the lobyist which are destroying this nation. My friend is more efficient with his thoughts....Not too unlike what is done in many countries when they stone people to death and behead them because of their intolarance of our way of life. I look at most things from many perspectives....That is why I watch CNN, MSNBC, and yes Fox...I want to know how folks think and make my own judgements. I tolerate your view, however you dont seem to recipricate. Quite frankly some in our halls of Congress should have been hanged for the devulging of secret information in the last few administrations for political gain. When I worked with classified info, I would have been sent to Leavenworth, and paid for my leaking of such classified information...Our Congressmen get a free pass and get out of jail card. I look forward to the time when we get people that want to solve our nations problems and will do it not to get elected, but to make America Great again.

[SW03ES]

Just like a liberal standing on symantecs.

We've been over this and over this, I am not a liberal, I am a moderate. I was a member of the Republican Party until 2008. The first Democrat for President I have ever voted for was Obama. I'm a fiscal conservative, where I differ with conservatives is in their belief that the Bible needs to be used as a national handbook. If they would knock off trying to legislate their religion...I'd likely vote for them.

Anyways, I will refer to a speech written for a certain scripted TV political drama to your repeated attempts to somehow insult me by calling me a "liberal":

It's true, Republicans have tried to turn 'liberal' into a bad word. Well, liberals ended slavery in this country...Yes, a liberal Republican. What happened to them? They got run out of your party. What did liberals do that was so offensive to the Republican party? I'll tell you what they did. Liberals got women the right to vote. Liberals got African-Americans the right to vote. Liberals created social security and lifted millions of elderly people out of poverty. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Liberals created Medicare. Liberals passed the Clean Air Act, and the Clean Water Act. What did Conservatives do? They opposed every one of those programs. Every one. So when you try to hurl the word 'liberal' at my feet, as if it were dirty, something to run away from, something that I should be ashamed of, it won't work, Senator, because I will pick up that label and wear it as a badge of honor.

I feel like I have been run out of the Republican party by people like you.

I tolerate your view, however you dont seem to recipricate.

How much more plain can I make it. I tolerate your stand and viewpoint on the ISSUES.

I have tried and tried to have a real discussion with you about the ISSUES, but whenever I try and do so you can't come up with any specific reasons or actions why you think Obama has been so bad for this country. No specifics about his healthcare plan and why it will "bankrupt America". You do nothing but spout right wing propagandist nonsense and when I press...there is nothing there. No independent reasoning behind your view.

Your view is that the President of the United States is a socialist who's whole life has been created and tailored with the goal of becoming President, and using that position to attack and destroy this country's system of government. You think his birth certificate, his enrollment and diplomas at two well respected Universities have all somehow been forged in such a way as to fool the highest courts in our land. Some great conspiracy...to do something...don't know what that is...but it must be stopped.

I'm sorry...but that is not a legitimate viewpoint...thats the viewpoint of a buffoon and it can no more be tolerated than the viewpoint that we're all descended from space aliens, and Obama's really the loch ness monster in a bad Halloween mask.

Get a viewpoint that has a basis in reality, where you have given independent thought to what specific policies you disagree with, and why...and I will respect it all day long.

[nc211]

Um... Rick Perry is out. Not that he fumbled his answer last night, but because he wants to dismantle the Dept. of Commerce, Education, and Energy. Commerce and Energy I don't really know enough to comment on. But Education? Really? Hey Rickie - ever heard of the phrase "Stupid is, as Stupid does?" Ya' Stupid! Sorry Bubba, you were on the bubble with me anyway. Now you're toast.

Mitt is still my guy so far.

[lenore]

I dont know, I personally dont like Perry, but dismantling Education department might be good...What have they done to really improve the education process except to increase bureaucracy. I would have selected the EPA or department of Energy, they have destroyed more jobs than they have created. Newt still has my vote for being the most intelligent, and possibly a good negotiater for both parties. I am saddened that Herman Cain is tied up with this womanizer scandel...Man politics is just dirtier than ever. It is truely going to be crazy as the clock ticks down to the finish. Meanwhile the budget crisis is hanging and Europe is going to bury our bailed out banks...

[SW03ES]

I would have selected the EPA or department of Energy, they have destroyed more jobs than they have created.

Its not the EPA's job to create or protect jobs. Their job is to protect the environment. Its in the name. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY.

Anyways, talk of dismantling government agencies is just Tea Party banter...nobody is going to dismantle any government agencies.

Newt still has my vote for being the most intelligent, and possibly a good negotiater for both parties.

We saw his ability to negotiate between the parties when he allowed the Government to be shut down and Bill Clinton to make a fool out of him. Newt Gingrich and his egotistical ineptitude were the MVP for Clinton's re-election campaign. He's a has-been, and talk about skeletons in the closet. They haven't been in the press because nobody thinks of him as a serious candidate, the press would eat him alive in a general election.

I am saddened that Herman Cain is tied up with this womanizer scandel...Man politics is just dirtier than ever.

Or he could have, you know...not harassed women. One allegation could be explained away, but now we're up to 5...I think obviously theres something there.

I maintain as I always have, Mitt Romney is the only possible candidate the Republicans have that has a prayer of beating Obama, but he himself is pretty flawed because he's flip flopped between the issues so many times that its hard to say what he actually believes. I think in the General he would move towards the center yet again, and Obama will be able to beat him over the head with the things he's said in the primary...like he would support a bill that makes birth control illegal, that would drive moderates like me away. The primary has been SO hard to the right because of the influence of the tea party, its really going to hurt whoever wins in the general IMHO.

I feel, more than ever, that Obama will win re-election watching these clowns.

[RX in NC]

Hey guys....

Never been in this section of the forum before today. In fact, didn't even intend to be here, but I fat-fingered the wrong link, wound up here, noticed this particular thread, and BAM! I'm glad to see that this site still has some highly entertaining political discussion going on between many different personalities and persuasions. We had similar discussions going on in the off-topic section during the run-up to the 2008 election, and I assumed all that talk had simply dried up and blown away. Turns out I simply didn't know where to look for it. Now I do....

I don't have time to compose a novel to get my skin in the game, but I will offer a paragraph or two just to plant my own flag here as most of you have already done....

Yes, I'm still a registered Republican but as nc211 can tell you, I despise what Bush/Cheney did to our country/economy/standard of living between 2000 and 2008 and still long for the opportunity to have a five-minute man-to-man "talk" with Bush in a locked room, just the two of us. I know it won't solve our country's problems, but it surely would bring me some of that famous "closure" that everyone is always talking about....

I voted for Obama in 2008 based upon his obvious intelligence and energy. I had great reservations when pulling the lever due to his inexperience and my fear that the DC lions' den would eat him alive, but there was no way I was willing to allow Sarah Palin to get within screaming distance of the White House. Like many Americans on both sides of the political spectrum, I have been extremely disappointed by Obama's ineffectiveness and naivete. But here comes 2012 and what do we have to choose from on the other side of the aisle? Possibly the most cartoonish line-up of wanna-be candidates in recent memory. Without going into detail, and in no particular order, I believe that Perry, Bachmann, Cain, and Gingrich are completely unelectible for valid, compelling reasons. None of them are fit for duty as President and they all scare the hell out of me for very different reasons. All of the other candidates with the exception of Romney and Paul are less than marginal and therefore not worth even having their names mentioned. Paul may bring some of the best fiscal-policy ideas to the table, but his quirky personality and less-than-appealing stage presence put him at a severe disadvantage. Romney has the closest thing to a political machine, he is generally stage-savvy and experienced in the public eye, and the nomination is his to lose. The Mormon factor becomes less of an issue as each week passes, particularly as the other candidates take their turns bumbling and stumbling around in the spotlight and falling out of consideration in the minds of the general public....

So November 2012 essentially boils down to Obama vs. Romney. But Romney can still blow it big-time as McCain did when he still-inexplicably picked the airheaded Palin to join him on the ticket. If Romney can find a valid and complementary running mate, he stands a decent chance of pulling it off. Of course, this is assuming that things stay status-quo on the economic front as they are now (i.e. still a lousy economy but not technically a recession even though it still feels like one to most folks). A confirmed double-dip recession next year would add more chips to Romney's poker pile, as would a worsening of the unemployment rate. But naming Bachmann or Perry as his VP sidekick would quickly shift the balance of power back to Obama, all other factors remaining the same....

There's still plenty of time left for anyone involved to make a fatal mistake (Bachmann did that months ago with her infamous proclamation of "We'll have $2.00-a-gallon gasoline under President Bachmann"), so we'll see how this soap opera plays out once the campaigns get going in earnest after the first of the year....

Gotta get back to the options markets now. If I have time, I'll check back later. Enjoy....

[dcfish]

Every, Every Politician has lied to US, The Public..Remember "We The People" ?

[nc211]

A turn in the conversation:

Say what you will about the illegal population taking jobs:

I recently purchased a newly built home. Some minor defects of the home have come up, nothing out of the ordinary for new construction. Our contractors in the neighborhood are all named John, Dan, Bill, Frank, etc.. I have to deal with their excuses on a weekly basis for why these issues haven't been resolved.

Last week, I contracted a nice gentleman named Rolando to build us a customs deck and install 400 linear feet of fence, a wood fence, slat by slat, post by post. The cost was less than 2% of what I paid for the house.

While I'm waiting for Bill, Dan and Frank to install a single shutter on the front of the house (a month later), Rolando's team has finished a 400 square foot customs wood deck, and are currently (as I type this) are in our back yard with trash bags on their heads, in the pouring down cold rain, digging the holes in the ground BY HAND for the dozens of fence posts. My wife and I felt so guilty watching them, my wife went out with homemade hot chocolate for the two man crew, and asked them to quit for the day and go get dry and warm. They thuroighly enjoyed the hot chocolate and were extremely thankful for it. They then proceeded to laugh off her suggestion of going home early, insisting the fence will be done by tomorrow night. These guys aren't doing shotty work either, trust me, I'm inspecting their work at night.

Truly amazing difference between the two groups and the sense of ownership pride in ones efforts and final work product.

Now, as someone who pays for results instead of excuses, someone putting money back out into the economic capital flow of our system, you tell me which one of these two groups is the real drag on our economic basis? I know the answer already, and just hired the one who produces results to do some crown molding work throughout the rest of our home. The other group, Im waiting for them to show up and do their job that should've been done already. Don't get me wrong, the big check went to Dan, Frank and Bill, and we love our new home. But the follow checks to make it "our home", are going to Rolando and his Amigos, not LeRoy and the Bubba posse' who were referred to us by, Bill, Dan and Frank.

[lenore]

That my friend is the ethics of many contractors today, funny how the job market is so bad for contractors today especially here in California, but their old habits never leave...Word of mouth and Amy's list are a friend to homeowners. However word of mouth from one contracter to another I would take with a grain of salt. That is what unions have done to our country, they think they can give you poor service, and substandard work and you owe them your business. I have always prided myself as always doing right by the customer. I would never give them what I wouldnt expect for my own business or products.... My daddy many years ago told me if you aren't going to do it right, than don't bother. Good luck on your Crown molding...If I were there I would do it for you..

[pj8708]

I love the term "Bubba Posse". Fits them and their kind perfectly.

[SW03ES]

I can't wait to see the finished result!

Let me know if you need me to lean on the "Bubba Posse" for you...

[pj8708]

Mr Cain ends his campaign apparently under the weight of too many women. Is this another example of a political male with power thinking with the wrong head?

[lenore]

Seems men with power going to their head, loose control of their morals. ie Clinton, Kennedy, the list goes on.

[SW03ES]

Yeah seems like ol Herman Cain thought being head of the Restaurant association was pretty cool LOL

[nc211]

Newt Gangreengrinch, reminds me of that fat little spoiled brat kid on the play ground who would try and con the lunch lady for the last ice cream cone for free. And when she wouldn't give it to him because all of the other kids hadn't received theirs yet, he would call her a bunch of names and stomp around the play ground throwing a tantrum, until one of the other kids (hoping to shut him up) would just give him their's. Let me ask you this: Say you're an employer who is interviewing for a new position in your company, and you receive a resume of an individual who (on paper) shows the ability to fill the position. You meet the potential hire, realize he speaks in a manner of understanding for what the position is, you decide to check up on his background. You call his references listed. You know some of his former employers and call them too for a little "off the record" conversation. Every single conversation sounds the same: "I wouldn't hire him if I were you. Life's too short"....."he is sporatic, won't listen to anyone, doesn't play fair with others".... "we fired him for a reason, you've been warned..." You still going to hire him? Yes? Then Newt's your type of guy..... If he wins the republican ticket....then my decision will be made early...I'll stick with Obama and see what this policy of his looks like full term. I do like that he has the nuggets to call in Seal 6 and get the job done, A LOT!

[nc211]

Newt Gangreengrinch, reminds me of that fat little spoiled brat kid on the play ground who would try and con the lunch lady for the last ice cream cone for free. And when she wouldn't give it to him because all of the other kids hadn't received theirs yet, he would call her a bunch of names and stomp around the play ground throwing a tantrum, until one of the other kids (hoping to shut him up) would just give him their's.

Let me ask you this: Say you're an employer who is interviewing for a new position in your company, and you receive a resume of an individual who (on paper) shows the ability to fill the position. You meet the potential hire, realize he speaks in a manner of understanding for what the position is, you decide to check up on his background. You call his references listed. You know some of his former employers and call them too for a little "off the record" conversation. Every single conversation sounds the same: "I wouldn't hire him if I were you. Life's too short"....."he is sporatic, won't listen to anyone, doesn't play fair with others".... "we fired him for a reason, you've been warned..."

You still going to hire him? Yes?

Then Newt's your type of guy.....

If he wins the republican ticket....then my decision will be made early...I'll stick with Obama and see what this policy of his looks like full term. I do like that he has the nuggets to call in Seal 6 and get the job done, A LOT!

[SW03ES]

Yeah I think nominating Newt Gingrich would be about the biggest gift the GOP could give the Democrats...

[LEXIRX330]

NO this thread is still going!

Newt only appeals to the FAR hardcore right. I consider myself pretty conservative but I don't like Newt. No one in the middle will sway his way if they are undecided. He will have the true republicans and that is it. Honestly I would never vote for Obama...but if Newt is our candidate...there is no since in even voting IMHO… I am not sold on Mitt but I do think that he hasn't alienated the people that are in the middle or haven't made their minds up yet. The rest of the republicans - hard core right will vote for anyone but Obama anyway.

OK…I am back to work. Someone has got to keep paying taxes!