Es350 Ultra Gasoline Debate

[TexasComputerMan]

In several places, there has been an ongoing debate about what octane we should be using in our ES350's. Mine is a 2008 ES350 ultra. I decided to look at the engine specs for my ES350 and compare them to the same year Camry engine specs.

My owners manual says that my ES350 should use 91 octane gasoline. But, the comparable Camry model with what seems to be the same engine says that they can use 87 octane gasoline. So here is my research:

Camry:

2011 Technical Specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 268@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3458/211

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

5-speed ECT-i automatic transmission w/OD

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

ES350:

2008 Technical specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 272@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3441/210

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

6-speed automatic electronically controlled transmission

w/intelligence (ECT-i)-inc: sequential-shift

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

The only difference seems to be in the displacement calculations. Please note that the compression ratio is identical. I have always thought that a 10.something compression ratio would require high octane gasoline.

I have Not decided to switch to regular (87 octane) yet, but I am mixing 1/2 tank of 87 Octane with 1/2 tank of 93 octane (=90 octane).

What are your thiughts and/or comments?????

[rob_es350]

In several places, there has been an ongoing debate about what octane we should be using in our ES350's. Mine is a 2008 ES350 ultra. I decided to look at the engine specs for my ES350 and compare them to the same year Camry engine specs.

My owners manual says that my ES350 should use 91 octane gasoline. But, the comparable Camry model with what seems to be the same engine says that they can use 87 octane gasoline. So here is my research:

Camry:

2011 Technical Specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 268@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3458/211

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

5-speed ECT-i automatic transmission w/OD

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

ES350:

2008 Technical specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 272@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3441/210

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

6-speed automatic electronically controlled transmission

w/intelligence (ECT-i)-inc: sequential-shift

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

The only difference seems to be in the displacement calculations. Please note that the compression ratio is identical. I have always thought that a 10.something compression ratio would require high octane gasoline.

I have Not decided to switch to regular (87 octane) yet, but I am mixing 1/2 tank of 87 Octane with 1/2 tank of 93 octane (=90 octane).

What are your thiughts and/or comments?????

I think the verdict is in on this one - regular is fine for the ES350.

Your comparison proves it once again.

My guess is that Lexus recommends the premium so that they can boast the absolute best performance possible. Doubt you can even tell the difference, I couldn't, unless maybe you do an all out 0-60...and who does that?!

[K.C. Dia]

In several places, there has been an ongoing debate about what octane we should be using in our ES350's. Mine is a 2008 ES350 ultra. I decided to look at the engine specs for my ES350 and compare them to the same year Camry engine specs.

My owners manual says that my ES350 should use 91 octane gasoline. But, the comparable Camry model with what seems to be the same engine says that they can use 87 octane gasoline. So here is my research:

Camry:

2011 Technical Specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 268@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3458/211

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

5-speed ECT-i automatic transmission w/OD

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

ES350:

2008 Technical specs

Standard Engine 3.5L V6

Standard Transmission 6 Speed Automatic

Cylinders 6

Horsepower @RPM 272@6200

Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 19/27

Combined Fuel Economy 22

EPA Class Mid-Size

Number of Valves 24

Torque @RPM N/A

Fuel Type System Gas Engine / Sequential Electronic Fuel Injected,

Sequential Port Fuel Injected Sequential, Multi-Port Fuel Injected

Turbo (Yes/No) No

Overdrive Transmission Yes

Battery Output N/A

Compression 10.8:1

Displacement 3441/210

Bore X Stroke 3.70x3.27

6-speed automatic electronically controlled transmission

w/intelligence (ECT-i)-inc: sequential-shift

Type: 6-speed automatic

Ratios: 3.30, 1.90, 1.42, 1.00, 0.71, 0.61

Final Drive: 3.69

The only difference seems to be in the displacement calculations. Please note that the compression ratio is identical. I have always thought that a 10.something compression ratio would require high octane gasoline.

I have Not decided to switch to regular (87 octane) yet, but I am mixing 1/2 tank of 87 Octane with 1/2 tank of 93 octane (=90 octane).

What are your thiughts and/or comments?????

I think the verdict is in on this one - regular is fine for the ES350.

Your comparison proves it once again.

My guess is that Lexus recommends the premium so that they can boast the absolute best performance possible. Doubt you can even tell the difference, I couldn't, unless maybe you do an all out 0-60...and who does that?!

I have a 2010 ES 350 and havea always used the middle grade (89) but because of high prices have switched to regular (87). I have noticed no difference in performance nor milage. Still get around 30 mpg. Will probably keep using regular unless I hear something different.

[peteanello]

I usually fill up at the half tank level. I used to switch between premium & mid grade. Now, based on all the logical information in this forum, I will either exclusively use regular or possibly switch between regular & mid.

My only concern ---- I recently had both our '04 RX 330 & the '09 ES350 serviced. Each time I had a different service writer. I asked each of them their opinion of using regular when the manual calls for premium. They both said NO, use premium, because of some kind of build up in the engine. One said to use only Chevron, because of the Techron additive.

In Calif. the difference between regular and premium is 30 cents a gallon. I guess that would work out to a savings of about $4.50/per fill up....not that much....but why throw away money if it is not necessary.

[jgilbert]

I usually fill up at the half tank level. I used to switch between premium & mid grade. Now, based on all the logical information in this forum, I will either exclusively use regular or possibly switch between regular & mid.

My only concern ---- I recently had both our '04 RX 330 & the '09 ES350 serviced. Each time I had a different service writer. I asked each of them their opinion of using regular when the manual calls for premium. They both said NO, use premium, because of some kind of build up in the engine. One said to use only Chevron, because of the Techron additive.

In Calif. the difference between regular and premium is 30 cents a gallon. I guess that would work out to a savings of about $4.50/per fill up....not that much....but why throw away money if it is not necessary.

I have experienced no problems whatsoever with regular and am saving a huge amount on gas. My typical drive is rush hour and performance is really not an issue. If I am planning a weekend road trip I will fill up with premium and definately enjoy the added performance, but 90% of the time, I wouldn't notice the difference (e.g. averaging 20 mph in stop and go traffic).

[bearone]

Hi All,

The only big difference I can see is 4 HP more with the premium, not worth the difference to me.

[nyuhsuk]

I have noticed that in my '07 UL, 87 gives my engine a bit of hesitation and stutter, even when I am not accelerating that hard. I stick with 89 now.

[PeterVJS]

Did not want to start a new forum for this so will ask this related question here. I have recently purchased a 2007 ES350 with 47,000 miles (78,000 K)and use premium. What is the best highway speed with cruise on for maximum gas milage?

PVJS

[bigwong]

I've noticed phenomenal mileage when cruising at 45-50 mph. I could watch the tank mpg going up. There is no way I would travel that speed driving on a freeway unless that was the prevailing speed at the time. I would either go the speed limit or a smidgen over, just for survivability. After all, what good is great economy if you get rear-ended by someone in a rush and never get to where you're going? My $.02, anyway.

[Django44]

Years ago when working as an environmental planner in the transportation field I remember using a computer program that calculated automobile fuel consumption at various speeds. I know the program is too old (1980's) to be relevant now but I do remember that the best mileage was obtained at the lowest end of the highest gear (assuming a level road) which means that just after shifting into Overdrive may be the best speed setting for best mpg. It may be possible to identify just when the transmission shifts into O/D, perhaps by watching the tachometer, and then carefully maintain that speed as best as possible for the best MPG. Something to play with on the next long trip.

[SW03ES]

I just got back from a round trip to WV, about 340 miles each way, 80MPH average speeds and for the last 100 miles or so some steep highway upgrades and downgrades. My average was 30.2MPG. I am beyond delighted with that...

[rob_es350]

I just got back from a round trip to WV, about 340 miles each way, 80MPH average speeds and for the last 100 miles or so some steep highway upgrades and downgrades. My average was 30.2MPG. I am beyond delighted with that...

nice..it's good know that you don't have to go some horribly low speed to get decent highway mileage

I have played with different speeds, keeping an eye on the mpg display, and have noticed that it does go down a bit at higher speeds, but it is not significant

I try to keep it just under 80 for 65 speed limits and just under 70 for 55 speed limits...usually won't get stopped at less than 15mph over the limit..tough to keep that discipline though....with the es ride, it feels like you can get out and walk even at 80 or so, so 55 is virtually impossible to maintain, like standing still

[SW03ES]

I think the rule of thumb is 10MPH over. I certainly have been stopped for less than 15 over before...

[LEXIRX330]

Here on the eastern shore they will stop you for anything. Hell last night I got stopped for tag covers, I was like "are you serious" state trooper was nice though gave me a warning. But I have a few troopers personal cars insured and they have all told me 10mph over too. But I am sure in NY it's a little different.

[rob_es350]

NY is brutal.

Lot's of check points looking for seat belts, expired reg or inspection, cell phones.

Camera enforced traffic signals have recently become extremely popular. HUGE revenue generator. That money will certainly be wasted on sweetheart deals and outright theft like a big chunk of the already sick amount of tax collected in NY.

If they start issuing camera enforced speeding tickets (I fully anticipate that), driving will be an absolute nightmare!

Agree that 10mph over the limit is a way safer play than 15mph, but if traffic is moving well, keeping it under 15mph over the limit is reasonably safe. Tailgating, weaving in and out, or any aggressive driving sticks out like a sore thumb and will surely get you some unwanted attention.

[trekguy77]

Here in Ohio, the cops are everywhere and don't like speeders. 10 mph over is taking a chance, depending on what mood they are in.

I can easily attain 30 mpg on regular fuel on my '08 ES. Highest observed mpg was once 35.9, but that was at 50 mph and ECON mode on climate control sysytem. Why buy a hybrid?

[rob_es350]

speeding tickets for 10mph over the limit are silly if you are otherwise driving safely

these tickets are likely encouraged to increase revenues

very frustrating!!!

[SW03ES]

I can easily attain 30 mpg on regular fuel on my '08 ES. Highest observed mpg was once 35.9, but that was at 50 mph and ECON mode on climate control sysytem. Why buy a hybrid?

For city mileage. Hard to argue with our Prius getting 50MPG in the city and the Lexus getting 20.

[trekguy77]

90% of the time, I use the ES on the highway. The other 10% is in a smart fortwo.

[pj8708]

speeding tickets for 10mph over the limit are silly if you are otherwise driving safely

these tickets are likely encouraged to increase revenues

very frustrating!!!

With that logic, if the limit was 60, you would drive 70. If he limit was 70, you would drive 80. If the limit was 80 you would drive 90..and on until you red lined I guess. So what speed do you propose is "driving safely"?

[SW03ES]

To me its all about the flow of traffic, which in this area is rarely anywhere near the speed limit. If traffic is flowing at 75, driving 55 is far more dangerous than driving along with the flow of traffic at 75.

[pj8708]

To me its all about the flow of traffic, which in this area is rarely anywhere near the speed limit. If traffic is flowing at 75, driving 55 is far more dangerous than driving along with the flow of traffic at 75.

....and I understand that, I really do. When your in freeway traffic and your not the lead dog, you'd better keep up. What I don't understand is the mentality that speed limits are only for generating revenue,and if I run a red light and hit someone, I shouldn't be punished because it was just turning red. I don't know if speed cameras and red light cameras are good or bad but lord, it begs the obvious that if you don't run the red light you've got no worries. Pretty simple.

Paul

[SW03ES]

Often times though, speed limits really are set just to generate revenue, you see that on roads where the limit is so disparate from the average speed on the roadway.

For instance, I went to WV last week to deal with a family issue, its a 340 mile trip, all highway. Ever since I can remember the speed limits have been 65 until you get into WV on I-64 and then they go up to 70. I've always left the cruise control at 75 until I cross the border, than raise it to 80. Recently they raised the speed limits on I-66, I-81 and I-64 in VA to 70 as well. However...when you are in the City of Harrisonburg on I-81...the limit goes down to 60. Same road...no difference. Why does it go down to 60? Because that stretch of road is HEAVILY patrolled by Harrisonburg City Police, and people with their cruise set at 80 with the 70MPH speed limit get nailed when it suddenly drops to 60...no warning...no "REDUCED SPEED AHEAD" signs. Just a subtle and unexpected drop to 60.

Why is that? Certainly not for safety or they would have made a bigger deal about the limit change. Not because of changes in the road...because its the same road, no curves, no hills. Doesn't happen when coming through other similarly sized towns like Clifton Forge or Covington...or Lexington...because they aren't incorporated cities with their own police force like Harrisonburg and don't receive revenue from VA troopers stopping speeders on I-81. I bet Harrisonburg makes a FORTUNE off the revenues from those tickets.

Generating revenue by tricking people into breaking the law isn;'t fair, but it happens everywhere.

[SW03ES]

To bring it back on to what we were talking about:

This is a shot of fuel economy with cruise set at 80:

and the final average for the trip:

[pj8708]

To bring it back on to what we were talking about:

This is a shot of fuel economy with cruise set at 80:

and the final average for the trip:

Can't read the top one, but the bottom photo is impressive!! I'm glad to see you using those instuments as I have always wondered if they were accurate or not. Also, I can see your point re: the speed limits in West Virginia.