So, Now I'm Thinking Of One New...

[cduluk]

You won't be happy with that one 6 months from now.

I agree, there isn't much about the TSX that "stands out", the sort of thing that keeps you interested no matter what the age...

[nc211]

I slipped out today to take another RDX on a test drive. As I was driving it, with the saleman in the car jabbering about all the techno-gizmos the RDX had, an X3 came by. I found myself speeding up to check it out without the saleman even noticing. I've got to have a BMW X3. It's the only car I honestly really want. Everything else just feels like I'm looking for 2nd place, even though several are nicer and probably better. This itch just won't leave me alone, and every single time I see one, I get mad as heck because I don't have one.

Found one this afternoon with a 7year/100k warranty. Turns out....from the same place I bought the Lexus from, and the same guy, who not only knows my style of car buying, but respects it and likes the straight forwardness of it. Remember, I bought the Lexus for a tick under $13k in March of 09, they were asking $17k. Local car, serviced 100% by BMW dealer. 06 (avoiding that new 6 speed transmission mess in the 07-09), silver, fully loaded with everything. Stay tuned...... ;)

[LEXIRX330]

NC-

I think that part of the problem trying to get a dealer to negotiate on prices today is that with interest rates at .9% on some of these cars like BMW many people including me...could care less about paying Cash for the car. The dealers know this and they know that with the interest rates like they are that they are able to find people that will pay a little more for the car because of the low rates. I am not one who likes to negotiate monthly payments and I will always try to get the bottom dollar out the door price...but I also have to consider with a rate such as .9% why pay cash for it? The dealers also many times are given incentives to get the car financed...so there is no advantage for them having you pay cash. I know it sounds crazy... but it is the world we live in. There are so many people that live in the world of how much does it cost me "monthly"

When we bought furniture for our home I was going crazy with the same situation. I wanted to just flat out pay cash...did not want to finance it. Man this sales lady just kept going on and on if you qualify for the 0% I can actually get you a better price. I financed it paid it off in 2 months closed the account. I bought new appliances at Sears...get this all new Jen Air appliances...5% off my total price to put on a Sears card...OK...charge it pay it off in a month close the account. I do not understand this logic (well kind of do $$$) and it is what has got the country so screwed up. They give people credit who actually can afford the payments monthly and the people don't sit down and do the math that they will pay on their new sofa or dishwasher for 10 years...paying over twice what the thing is actually worth... :chairshot:

[Kyle Petree]

I've got to have a BMW X3. It's the only car I honestly really want. Everything else just feels like I'm looking for 2nd place, even though several are nicer and probably better. This itch just won't leave me alone, and every single time I see one, I get mad as heck because I don't have one.

Clearly you just need to stick with the X3. I had the same feeling for the RX but kept settling on other things and now that I have an RX it's the only car I've still enjoyed getting into every morning even after owning it for over a year. You've gotta go with your gut, and it's screaming X3.

[smooth1]

Yeah, once I test drove the MB ML 350, everything else was just getting compared to it and falling short. I was waiting for something else to wow me and it just didn't happen. I've been very happy with the purchase since.

[cduluk]

I agree, go with the BMW.

Worst case, it requires some extra $$$ maintenance... big deal, worth it if you like it!

[nc211]

Well, didn't buy that one either. Even though the carfax was clean, it had clearly been in a front - driver's side, accident. I was able to bring it home for the evening, where I could spend some time with it. Spent about 2 hours crawling all over it, hook up the code reader, etc. It was looking like a true winner, until I started running my fingers along the panel seems. Everything was looking good, until I got to the front. About a 2cm gap between the lines in the inner headlight assembly and the center grill. My internal alarm went off, and started looking harder in that area. Bumper was all messed up, and then realized the headlight washer's didn't work. Crawled under, and found a couple of thing hanging. Wasn't sure if it was just cosmetic or not, as the sheet metal was perfect and from what I could see, the impact beams looked perfect as well. Took it to my mechanic....wrecked in the front quarter panel, and driver's side airbag had been repacked. He pointed out some stuff that I had missed. Suspension damage too. I took the car back and passed on it. I looked at three others in that range...all had a similiar story to tell. Some were obvious, and some were harder to spot, but learned how to look at the car from my mechanic. As badly as I want the X3, I'm not even close to considering one that isn't perfect. Coming to the conclusion the BMW brand is just too much of a comfortable stretch for me, for a car that probalby won't get driven but 6k miles a year, if that.

Did have a nice suprise though towards the end of the day when heading home. I decided to check out the passat wagons one more time. Last time I looked at them, it was on an 07' VR6 4motion with all the bells and wistles. Dealer said "certified", but really meant it could be certified on my $2,500 dime. I passed on it. I did drive it too, and wasn't all that impressed with the feel and the noises of the engine. I decided what the heck, I was out, had the time, and was curious about the 2.0 Turbo engine on a FWD setup. Drove an 08' yesterday with 15k miles. NIGHT & DAY difference between the two cars. The 2.0 turbo was extremely quiet and smooth. Has all the pep you could ever want, with some to spare. Shifted like my lexus too, and felt great to drive. I wasn't just really impressed, I was willing to buy it, had the check in my bag, if it weren't for the missing sunroof option. I drove it easy, drove it very hard, drove it over very rough roads, and smooth roads. Spent about 45 minutes putting it through it's paces. It was excellent. The absences of the AWD system really lightens up, and livens up the car. You could pack a frat house of furniture in that thing too. I had the code reader with me, no codes. Had every option except the roof.

All of this car, still under original bumper-bumper warranty to 2011 or 36k miles, plus the certified extended bumper/bumper warranty for an additional 2 years and 20k miles, and the VW maintenance package as well....for $19,900 asking price? The dealership's manager showed me the car's history. He sold it new, serviced it, and actually proved to me the original owner only got rid of it because his wife wanted one of these Tiquans instead, for the big sunroof. The original owner was actually there (older gentleman) in the dealership having the oil changed in the Tiquan. They were willing to let me take it, all-in, for $18,500, out the door. Man, say what you will about VW's history - and I won't argue with it, but, you've got to admit, that is a very tough deal to disregard because of a few internet postings on edmunds (in a sea of postings) about problems, and some teenager working in Best Buy saying never to buy a VW, as his is a nightmare - the tweaked out GTI out back.

$19k for a handsome 06' BMW X3 in the 50k mile range with two years of CPO (or 3rd party) warranty, or $18k-$19k for an 08' - 09' gorgeous passat wagon in the 15k mile range with remaining original warranty + extended VW certified warranty + maintenance plan. I've got to admit, the VW drove a lot nicer than the X3, given its car platform vs the mini-suv platform. I can live with FWD in the winter up here. If it's that bad outside, I just won't go anywhere, or take the train to the office, or the 4runner if needbe. After driving the 2.0t engine for the first time, I can see why they dropped the V6 engine altogether for this car. They've really got that engine refined quite nicely, pulls exactly like a V6 with I4 mpg's, and significantly quieter in the cabin of the car (I think that's also due to the FWD and not AWD mechanicals too). Are they as realiable as a BMW? Nope, much more of a roll-the-dice scenario. But, we're not talking about a Yugo here either, where the driveshaft is going to just fall out on the highway and the car explodes because you turn on the hazzards. Sensors/servos/etc going bad, yeah quite common. But, as long as they pay for it, and give me a loaner while they do it, I'm ok with that. Heck, at these prices, if I hate the car in a year, I'm still not going to take a hit to the wallet when I'm running to the Toyota dealer for a Camry.

Once again...my focus is shifting.. You think reading this stuff drives you nuts, trying being me! I'm going insane over this! I know I have to replace the GS, or face new tires, and figure out what's loose in the back suspension (I know the lower front CA's bushings are starting to crack too). Whatever's loose in the rear, really shows when you're driving steady at about 40mph. The rear wobbles and hops, feels almost exactly like a torn driveshaft flex-coupling on the differential. Dare I even suggest a certain monster thread from several years back that I started about chasing a damn wobble in a certain 95' LS400. I still get nightmares thinking about that sucker!

PS: Why are the wagons dying off in this country? I know Volvo isn't going to ship anymore V70's here after this year, and heard yesterday the Passat Wagon is getting retired too this year (not sure if that's true or saleman pressure). What gives? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but weren't we all just talking about how bad the SUV's were to the planet just 24 months ago? And yet, all we're doing is making them smaller and cheaper at the cost of the wagon series? Just because they're smaller, doesn't mean they're easier on the mpg's, as most are either FWD, or AWD, not selectable 4x4 when you need it. The BMW X3, real world, averages about 15-16mpg's on a highly tuned 3.0 I6 engine. Guess what my 4runner averages with it's awd V8 setup .....15-16mpgs. Yet, the Passat wagon averages north of 25mpg, but the Tiquan is to be it's replacement, a smaller interior, less aerodynamic, certain to be lower mpg's and far too much stress on a 2.0t engine in an AWD platform. I don't get it..... Maybe they'll figure it out in about 5 years when someone reads the Subaru playbook and looks at their numbers.

[dcfish]

Nc, Buy another 4 Runner, Save a mint and the headaches too Really, Do you want the pains with a BMW, MERC, VW etc...??? Just think, You will be able to pass it on to # 1 son Besides this post is getting beat..................

[LEXIRX330]

Nc, Buy another 4 Runner, Save a mint and the headaches too Really, Do you want the pains with a BMW, MERC, VW etc...??? Just think, You will be able to pass it on to # 1 son Besides this post is getting beat..................

:D

I just wish I had this amount of patience when looking to buy anything!

[smooth1]

What about the Odessey or Sienna?

[nc211]

I agree guys, this thread is starting to smell like stale fish. I appreciate all the help and insight, but I think I'm just running circles now and need to pull the trigger on something and be done with it. I'll post up what I end up with!

[dcfish]

I agree guys, this thread is starting to smell like stale fish. I appreciate all the help and insight, but I think I'm just running circles now and need to pull the trigger on something and be done with it. I'll post up what I end up with!

Stale Fish ? Sure I am getting older , But not stale ....................... I wish the best for what ever your decision is

Did something wash up on South shore Drive ?

[nc211]

I'm within $500 of retiring this thread. It's German. It has 4 doors, a turbo engine, bumper-bumper to 2014, can swallow a 7 foot ladder, it has 18' wheels, it's fully loaded, and it is a God Lovin' FRIGGIN' RIOT to drive!!! Hope to have photos to show tomorrow.

[LEXIRX330]

I'm within $500 of retiring this thread. It's German. It has 4 doors, a turbo engine, bumper-bumper to 2014, can swallow a 7 foot ladder, it has 18' wheels, it's fully loaded, and it is a God Lovin' FRIGGIN' RIOT to drive!!! Hope to have photos to show tomorrow.

Good luck. I am almost to the point that I might send you the $500.00 so you buy something. lol

[nc211]

I'm within $500 of retiring this thread. It's German. It has 4 doors, a turbo engine, bumper-bumper to 2014, can swallow a 7 foot ladder, it has 18' wheels, it's fully loaded, and it is a God Lovin' FRIGGIN' RIOT to drive!!! Hope to have photos to show tomorrow.

Good luck. I am almost to the point that I might send you the $500.00 so you buy something. lol

I've got the $5bills sitting in front of me right now, hit the atm on my way home when I was $1,500 away from the original numbers. Believe me, nobody on this planet whats this over more than I!

[SW03ES]

Good luck. I am almost to the point that I might send you the $500.00 so you buy something. lol

LOL, I'll go halfsies with you on that...

[nc211]

Oh....I see how it is around here!

I am super relieved to say...this thread is about to become a car show. No more debating. Pictures on the way in a bit. They didn't come down, but they did throw in 4 years worth of detailing services (twice a year), which up here in this wintery climate, is a nice thing to have! I don't have to worry about having to pay to fix or adjust anything for the next 4 years. Don't have to worry about playing musical cars while mine is in the shop (free loaner service). It's change the oil, and go baby go. Any guesses?

[LEXIRX330]

Oh....I see how it is around here!

I am super relieved to say...this thread is about to become a car show. No more debating. Pictures on the way in a bit. They didn't come down, but they did throw in 4 years worth of detailing services (twice a year), which up here in this wintery climate, is a nice thing to have! I don't have to worry about having to pay to fix or adjust anything for the next 4 years. Don't have to worry about playing musical cars while mine is in the shop (free loaner service). It's change the oil, and go baby go. Any guesses?

I'll take a stab at it...Mercedes Benz GL?

[dcfish]

GX/LX ? 2 Votes count Maybe X5 ?

[smooth1]

Volkswagen.

[SW03ES]

He said it was German. I say he finally got that X3...

[nc211]

Smooth hit the nail on the head! It's a 2007 VW 4-door GTI, with every option possible except for nav unit. Has 40k miles, is certified bumper-bumper until 12/2013 or 75k miles. Considering I tend to get tired of cars after about 2-3 years, and don't expect to drive this much, I figured what the heck, have some fun hauling stuff from Babies R Us and Ikea! I drove the GS a total of 6,700 miles in 16 months. It was time to get rid of it, it was facing new tires, loose suspension clunking in the rear, and just the other day, the speedometer started to stick and move knotchy. The spoiler was coming loose, and starting to rust under the spoiler.

So....here is the new addition to the family driveway! Sorry for the crappy photos, my wife has the camera, and they're back in NC at the beach this week.

[LEXIRX330]

Nc glad you got your new ride.

[SW03ES]

VW huh? Glad its under warranty ;)

Just being mean, congrats!

[nc211]

Ha! You're not being mean, you're exactly right, and I wouldn't even consider a VW without the full warranty from VW directly. A few tried to sell me on the 3rd party route, and I flat out refused. I investigated this route with the BMW X3's to see if I could avoid the CPO premium prices. Not worth the hassles, at all. I fully expect to see the check engine light once or twice on this car. As long as I don't have to pay for it, and if it dies on the road, they come get it for free and bring me a loaner as well, I'm ok with it. But, in all honesty, if these cars truly are as bad as the mojo rumor mill says, then why are they so dang popular? They've built two car brands around this little 2.0 turbo engine (Audi being the other). Granted, they're the same ownership, but I'd have to believe that if it were just a POS, they wouldn't of used it so heavily.

A 30 year old version of me is probably going to get the deal of a lifetime with my GS. If the right person who knows a thing or two about Lexus buys the GS, they're going to love it for many many years to come. At the end of the day, I just couldn't bring myself to ording the parts, and spending the time reversing the 9 years of life it's had up here. It only had 64,000 miles when I traded it in, but it felt like it had about 150k. At 40mph, the rear end would stutter, like it was "missing", but I know it wasn't. It was worn out susupension bushings in the back, probably the rear carrier arms and lower control arms. That alone, I was facing probably $500 in parts. The tires were shot, that was another $500, and the steering was getting very loose, signaling worn out front lower control arms, another $500. The stabilizer bars were rusting badly, and were in need of replacement as well. An educated Lexus guy will feel this immediatly when they drive it. But, a non educated Lexus guy, won't know the difference, except the 40mph thing that was starting to show more and more every day. On the highway, it was fantastic. But around town, it felt way too heavy and lumbersome to be even marginally engaging to drive. It was just flat out boring as hell. The 300 series with the V6 feels more engaging than the 430 with the V8, to me anyway. The 430 has you either in uber-smooth mode, or breaking every speed limit in town. There wasn't a middle ground that you could just toss the car around in a spirited manner and have a little fun. It was all or nothing with that engine. Best V8 I've ever driven though, beyond a shadow of a doubt, but too much for the car's suspension setup and lack of steering feedback. You never knew when you were approaching the limit, which I really don't like in a "sporty" car. The LS? Sure, not meant to be driven spiritedly, but the GS invites it. However, with that said, man that engine was soooo smooth, and the transmission was equally as smooth. The dealership guys drove it at least 5 times, and every single one of them said "man, what a fantastic car". They gave me $11,000 trade value on it, which for a 9 year old car (very tough for someone to now buy with financing - limiting the buyer pool to cash buyers), I thought was pretty good, and topped KBB for excellent condition tradein value. They didn't push the difference into the VW either, which I was looking for. All-in, the VW in the $18k window. Taxes and certification warranty (which included new tires and brakes) were close to $2k alone.

The ride in the VW is definately stiff, but suprisingly compliant. I was worried with those low profile tires (40 series Z rated). But, given their size (18'), they seem to roll over the top of bumps quite easily. Really and truly, it's not a punishing ride at all. Stiff, yeah, it's a sports hatchback, but very composed and quite a quiet ride. You put your foot in it though, and you can hear that sweet exhaust note and engine growl. It's really fun! I sat up last night having a few brews and reading the manual. Went out and sat in it too. The interior lighting at night is very sexy, and very German. Red and blue color scheme. Everything has a light in it, all the switch gear, radio knobs, etc. There are two little lights up by the sunroof knob that puts a red glow onto the stack, which is really neat. It's kind of like what you see in a movie about submarines. You know when they call "battle stations" and the submarine turns dark with red instruments? It's like that.

We'll see how this goes! I'm just glad to finally stop car shopping! This town has some of the biggest A-Holes I've ever seen! I was even yelled at buy an Acura salesman because I didn't have the Lexus with me at the time when I was considering the RDX and TSX. I was stunned, then just depressed. These jerks up here nearly took the fun out of cars for me. The VW place, was very nice to me, and made me feel good about replacing a Lexus with a VW. I've learned a lot during this process. From now on, when it comes time to buy a car, I'm going to start with the smallest dealerships first. These monster organizations that have 3 or 4 dealerships around town, are just a pain in the butt to deal with. Probably didn't help that I'm also living in the third largest city in the country. They know if I don't buy it, someone else probably will.

Off to change the oil and transfer/diff box fluids in the 4runner. Love that SUV! Honestly, buying that car at the height of the gas price panic, was the smartest decision I've made in a long time. I've found out during this process, that it hasn't depreciated one dime since when I bought it in 2007, not one dime. I paid $18k for it with 53k miles. And it's worth $18k today with 85k miles. I don't understand it, but it is what it is! You can't believe how badly car dealerships want me to trade that thing in. I've told them "not a chance!"