Daytime Running Lights - Kill Or Change Bulbs?

[cduluk]

According to the manufacturers site, after 2,000 - 3,000 hours the bulbs should be at the end of their life. After 2,000 hours HID bulbs should still be illuminated, just not producing as many usable lumens of light as they started at.

They recommend HIB bulbs be replaced every 2 years or so because of this loss in light. You don't "need to" (not many people know about this standard) but it's recommended by the manufacturer.

I'm not making this stuff up lol...

[1990LS400]

I'm not making this stuff up lol...

Steve/SW03ES, sometimes using logic is a waste of time. ;)

[SW03ES]

Then why don't you point me towards where a respected OEM manufacturer of HID lights (like Phillips) says that they should be replaced every 2 years? I have NEVER heard that, in fact I have repeatedly heard from automobile manufacturers that they should last the life of the vehicle.

Thats just preposterous! If thats the case then why does Philips sell an HID bulb that has the color characteristics to match an older bulb so you can only replace one...if they should just be replaced every 2 years as per the manufacturer. I've had HID lights on cars for nearly 200,000 miles and they were still putting out more light than halogen bulbs...I know because I have cars with halogen lights to compare them to.

I'm not saying you're making this up, I just have a feeling this info comes from some people on the HIDplanet forum that either don't really know what they are talking about, or they are talking about cheap aftermarket bulbs...

[SW03ES]

I'm not making this stuff up lol...

Steve/SW03ES, sometimes using logic is a waste of time. ;)

I guess so!

[cduluk]

I've heard it time and time again over there, it's one of those things you 'pick up' after visiting every day. The members over there fight over 100's of lumens (which is very miniscule) between bulbs. They're indeed nuts about light.

I'm not saying you NEED to replace your HID bulbs (i can't think of one person who does besides HIDplanet fanatics) i'm just saying they lose considerable output over time, and that to get the maximum output, they need to be replaced often. After about 2000 hours HID bulbs are at 70% of their initial output. Starting at 3200 lumens, after 2,000 hours you're only putting out 2200 lumens. 1000 lumens is a LOT of brightness lost.

And yes, it differs between bulbs. Have you ever seen the early thousand's acura TL and RL headlights at night? Those bulbs are Osram, which start out the same output and color as philips, but over time they colorshift to a violet/pink color, whereas philips colorshift to a blue color. I'm pretty sure DOT wouldn't let a new car onto the road with that violet shade and lower output...

Seriously... i am not making this up.

EDIT

I opened a thread on HIDp asking for the graph and info i keep referring to (but couldn't find myself using their horrid search system) and here it is:

And here's a response from a respected member with over 8,000 posts.... "gearbox"

"guys you have to remember that most halogen bulbs keep 95% of their lumens just before burning out. the filament is always there and does not erode due to the halogen cycle, so the lumens are always there til the filament breaks.

hid on the other hand loses lumens like crazy, and after a certain time, it will negate the advantage of having hid lights. you need alot of lumens for the projector to work properly since so much of the light is spread out over a wide area. if you only have a 2000 lumen source instead of 3000, it will be much more dangerous to drive since the front of the car may not be lit up well enough. and sure hid can become dimmer than halogen, ive seen it all the time and have outshined many a car headlight with my civic halogen reflectors.

for comparison, i included a few landmarks along the way to compare to as the 85122 bulb ages. if it were me, i would change the bulbs every 1000 hrs to have the most output. and bulbs are cheap, i just got a brand new set of 85122 from ebay for $75 shipped. but you really need to add up your average night time driving. if you mostly drive during the day, then sure i could see you taking several years to reach 1000 hrs. some people will drive that much at night in 6 months who knows."

Like i said, they don't NEED to be replaced (as they "live" a long time) but their output suffers dramatically with age... You might think a 6yr old HID bulb is fine, but compared to a new bulb, you'll wonder how you saw a thing with the old one.

If you work a lot with HID bulbs and units, you'll know what a difference a few thousand hours makes...

[SW03ES]

But your graph disproves what you were saying.

Here is what you said

HID bulbs lose brightness and change color over time, it's called color shifting. An HID bulb after 1,000 hours emits the same amount of lumens as a brand new halogen bulb. It's from HIDplanet.com.

And here is what you said after posting the graph

After about 2000 hours HID bulbs are at 70% of their initial output.

If their original output is 3200 llumens, 70% of that is 2240. According to your graph a new H1 Halogen bulb puts out 1800 llumens. So using your numbers, an HID bulb after 2,000 hours still puts out 640 llumens more than a halogen bulb...how does that prove what you said which was that after 1,000 hours HID bulbs put out the same as a halogen bulb?

If we use your numbers we'd estimate the HID bulb was still putting out 85% of its llumens after 1,000 hours, or 2720, 1000 more than the new halogen bulb...

[cduluk]

But your graph disproves what you were saying.

Here is what you said

HID bulbs lose brightness and change color over time, it's called color shifting. An HID bulb after 1,000 hours emits the same amount of lumens as a brand new halogen bulb. It's from HIDplanet.com.

And here is what you said after posting the graph

After about 2000 hours HID bulbs are at 70% of their initial output.

If their original output is 3200 llumens, 70% of that is 2240. According to your graph a new H1 Halogen bulb puts out 1800 llumens. So using your numbers, an HID bulb after 2,000 hours still puts out 640 llumens more than a halogen bulb...how does that prove what you said which was that after 1,000 hours HID bulbs put out the same as a halogen bulb?

If we use your numbers we'd estimate the HID bulb was still putting out 85% of its llumens after 1,000 hours, or 2720, 1000 more than the new halogen bulb...

The 1,000hrs i was thinking of was the difference between a new 85122 and a new 85122WX, sorry hadn't seen that graph in quite a while.

Even still, it clearly shows the difference in output over time, which is considerable. After a few thousand hours, your not getting the same output the HID system was designed to work with, definitely not enough to pass SAE. Do/think whatever you'd like with your own bulbs, at this point i realize trying to share suggestions with you is a moot point- unless you've founded them. The evidence is there, you just choose to only see the "scraps" that seem to back up whatever you happen to believe.

I know bulbs, i know HID. Anyone with higher standards in lighting output, or anyone who's worked with them, knows the importance in keeping up with HID maintenance. Like i said before, unless you really care about light output, you won't see the point in changing bulbs every few years. I'm only sharing this suggestion because if you expect to maintain the output the headlight engineers designed your HID units to produce, you NEED to change your bulbs.

Sure, you can keep your HID bulbs in your car forever if you want. They'll "live" but you won't be getting the amount of light your headlights were designed to produce. Losing 1,000 lumens of light in an HID reflector is a LOT. It's like never replacing the cabin air filter in your car. Sure, your AC will still "work", but you'll be losing a lot of performance (which one probably won't even notice, since most people don't even know what a cabin air filter is)... It's called ignorance.

You asked why you need to change HID bulbs every few years, and i've explained why the best way i can. So do whatever you like! I'm only making a suggestion from experience in this field...

[SW03ES]

The evidence is there, you just choose to only see the "scraps" that seem to back up whatever you happen to believe.

I didn't post the data, you did! It very clearly doesn't support what you were saying. Of course output degrades over time, Jim and I weren't disagreeing with that but the statement that HID lights put out the same llumens as a standard halogen light after only 1,000 hours of use was what he and I both didn't believe...and now we see by the data you posted that it is not accurate.

I know bulbs, i know HID.

You THINK you do. Thats the problem. You just proved yourself wrong man...we don't even need to try...

You obviously remembered wrong by your own admission:

The 1,000hrs i was thinking of was the difference between a new 85122 and a new 85122WX, sorry hadn't seen that graph in quite a while.

If you are going to make a statement...be damn sure you're right. Double check your facts before you post them...thats what I do. If you are going to reference the graph...you might want to...I dunno...look at the graph! I asked you to produce this graph and when you did...lo an behold...you were wrong.

Lets recap. This started with you saying that after 1,000 hours your HID lights only put out the same llumens as a halogen light. Now after I have pressed you we find out according to your own sources after 1,000 hours HID lights still put out 1,000 llumens more than a halogen light, and even after 2,000 hours they still put out more light than halogen...and I'm looking at "scraps" and being a jerk and not listening to any viewpoints that aren't my own.

So I should just let you post things that I know are inaccurate in incorrect?

The backpeddling is hilarious...first it was 1,000 hours, now its

After a few thousand hours, your not getting the same output the HID system was designed to work with

First it was 1,000 hours...now its "a few thousand hours"...just admit when you have misstated instead of pretending that you haven't.

[cduluk]

I don't care about my accuracy in the numbers. It wasn't the quantity i am arguing, it's the fact they lose a lot of the brightness over time. They need to be replaced every once and a while to maintain the maximum efficiency. I don't care about the specific numbers. Numbers are the data, i know the result. I don't make an effort to know numbers when i know the result. I stated the result, that they need to be replaced. You questioned the result, so i did my best to recall the data, which honestly doesn't make a difference since they both prove that you need to replace them.

My lord. I'm just gonna stop arguing, it's pointless. I'll just continue driving around with my new bulbs while all the rest of you people drive around with sub performing HID bulbs... All i'm trying to do is help!

[SW03ES]

LOL! Right...the specific numbers only matter if they agree with what you are saying. When they no longer agree...the numbers don't matter. You're the one who referenced llumens and comparing them to halogen bulbs and you were happy to do that when you felt those comparisons would back up what you were saying, but now that they don't somehow I'm the one bringing numbers into the equation? You posted the numbers, not me! Do you read what you type? You should be a politician...

You questioned the result, so i did my best to recall the data, which honestly doesn't make a difference since they both prove that you need to replace them.

Actually it was your assertion that HID lights put out the same llumens as a halogen bulb after only 1,000 hours that made me question the result in the first place...and you yourself have proved to us that was incorrect...so I guess I was right to question the result since the result was wrong.

Just because the effectiveness of something degrades over time doesn't mean it "must be replaced". Using your logic we should replace struts at 30k miles, replace tires when they reach half their treadlife, do a 4 wheel alignment at every oil change, replace wiper blades every month, replace the battery once a year...because the effectiveness of these things degrades over time too.

Everything works better when its new...nobody is debating that. You however are telling people that they should spend their hard earned money to replace things before they need to be replaced. Just because something doesn't operate AS WELL as it did when new doesn't mean it must be replaced.

We've established that HID lights are still putting out over 50% more llumens than halogen lights at 1,000 hours (120k miles or so) and 25% more light than halogen after 2,000 hours (approximately 240k miles or so)...and you assert they "need to be replaced"? They don't need to be replaced, they would operate better certainly if they were replaced, but they operate just fine and safely as they are.

If you've got gobs of discretionary money lying around...and don't care about needlessly discarding bulbs filled with very environmentally destructive chemicals...then feel free to replace them every couple years so that you always have "optimum lighting". Don't however try to say they "need to be replaced" because you are wrong.

[denslexusgx470]

Hey SW do you want to do the chemistry formulas for me for my organic chemistry class? lol.

[SW03ES]

Do you want to pass? LOL

[denslexusgx470]

Do you want to pass? LOL

Hehe.. Of course I do! :P

I just barely read this thread, and just going through the math explanations gave me a headache.. which is the similar headache I get when I take a precal test or any chemistry test with mind-twisting math formulas ughh :(

[SW03ES]

Imagine the headache of being involved in this thread...

[denslexusgx470]

Imagine the headache of being involved in this thread...

that's why I didn't analyze everything discussed in this thread because I wasn't up to date when this thread first started lol. Besides, I just started organic chemistry in school now, and doing the prelabs and stuffs for this class is like 100x harder and more work than the inorganic chemistry class I took last year! ughhh... :( I have a headache right now as we speak while I'm trying to figure out how to do this prelab hehe

[president]

I am about to buy news D4S 8000k Xenon Headlight and 8000K 9006 HID Conversion Kit fog light to replace my stock on lexus GS 450h

I heard that there are some car maker ( European car )will show an on Board Computer Error on the dashboard when you install all the bulb that difference Wattage.

Have any one in the club happen to come across this problem?

I really need advise on this issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you

Gs Lover biggrin.gif

[blake918]

Imagine the headache of being involved in this thread...

I read this earlier, and it's still hilarious now! ROFLMAO

[denslexusgx470]

I am about to buy news D4S 8000k Xenon Headlight and 8000K 9006 HID Conversion Kit fog light to replace my stock on lexus GS 450h

I heard that there are some car maker ( European car )will show an on Board Computer Error on the dashboard when you install all the bulb that difference Wattage.

Have any one in the club happen to come across this problem?

I really need advise on this issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you

Gs Lover biggrin.gif

I'm not really sure with your GS450H but generally with the Japanese cars you can change the bulbs without any error messages. I don't think you should run into any problems changing the bulbs on your GS450H. Just make sure it's the right size and you should be fine ;)

Only the German cars are picky like that. I know that with a BMW or Mercedes just to change the plate light bulbs to LED will instantly flash an error message on your info screen :( I see a lot of threads on the BMW forums where people have to add special modules or whatnots to avoid encountering the error messages

[president]

I am about to buy news D4S 8000k Xenon Headlight and 8000K 9006 HID Conversion Kit fog light to replace my stock on lexus GS 450h

I heard that there are some car maker ( European car )will show an on Board Computer Error on the dashboard when you install all the bulb that difference Wattage.

Have any one in the club happen to come across this problem?

I really need advise on this issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you

Gs Lover biggrin.gif

I'm not really sure with your GS450H but generally with the Japanese cars you can change the bulbs without any error messages. I don't think you should run into any problems changing the bulbs on your GS450H. Just make sure it's the right size and you should be fine ;)

Only the German cars are picky like that. I know that with a BMW or Mercedes just to change the plate light bulbs to LED will instantly flash an error message on your info screen :( I see a lot of threads on the BMW forums where people have to add special modules or whatnots to avoid encountering the error messages

Thank you for your advise

[r0k0]

I've been an active member on HIDplanet for about a year, i've done 3 HID retrofits, used 4 different types of bulbs, i've read enough to know the lumen vs time values of an 85122 philips bulb...

Go find the graph, it' somewhere on there... It shows the curve of the philips 85122, 85122+, 85122WX and halogen bulb lumen values vs time.

i've done 3 HID Projector retrofits in cars, lots of HID's in normal reflector and i've always used SharpHID.com Apexcone HID's... i've got a Set in my Lexus.. which was in my old Bimmer and in my Volvo... my HID bulbs and Ballast at 55W kit and they've been used for over 5 years.. Same as the kit for my old Cobalt, oncle's Cobalt, uncle's Friend WRX same kit but 35W for 3 years.. and they are still very very well brighter than any halogen or ebay junk hids

[cduluk]

HID bulbs being run at 55W for 5 years? Oh boy, that's definitely one way to shorten your bulbs lifespan even more...

Unless they're philips DL50 or "maybe" the philips 35W 85122, i wouldn't bank on a long lifespan under 55W. Aftermarket HID bulbs can hardly survive on 35W for more than a couple of years...

[Brickitee]

You can but the toyota techstream software with a mini video cable on amazon for between $20-$40 for your laptop. Then you might be able to change it yourself. Not sure if they have the option for gs300 in the program. I've read that they do and I've also read that they don't .