allegoric1 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I understand putting a K&N on my 94 Lexus could damage/affect my mass flow center which is very expensive to replace? Why if true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 It lets a lot of dust in and the filter oil can also foul up the sensor. Some people will tell you that these problems are just myths, but I find these issues reasonably possible and easy to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRK Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Early LS's use an optical mass meter, later ones the more usual hot-wire. Simple conjecture (no science here) tells me that the optical one may be sensitive to oil film. Hot-wire types (at least Bosch) use a burn-off cycle to keep themselves clean. I'm not a fan of K&N filter elements, and there is nothing demonstrably wrong with the stock element, which is of very high quality. Stick with OEM filters. No conjecture needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlexes330 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I understand putting a K&N on my 94 Lexus could damage/affect my mass flow center which is very expensive to replace?Why if true? absolutely false I have had one in my car since new and it is the best ..1 million mile warranty on the filter clean it every 50K keep your old filter as a replacement while cleaning your K&N filter is also my advice the best $50 I ever spent on the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I understand putting a K&N on my 94 Lexus could damage/affect my mass flow center which is very expensive to replace?Why if true? Why would you want to put in a K&N over the oem??? You're kind of answering your own question here. If you "understand" there to be a prob, and if there's no advantage in doing so, well .... ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop170 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... To get that balance where you're not contaminating the maf is way more work than it's worth. How many owners are going to get that right? There have been many posts experiencing probs, whether their fault or not. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it! There may be certain apps where you might want a filter that you can clean and treat instead of replacing, but Lexus isn't one of them, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 It's funny how people will bother thinking about all the money they're saving on air filters when air filters are such a SMALL part of the cost of overall automobile maintenance. You probably spend about $0.10-0.20 per mile on maintenance on your Lexus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop170 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... To get that balance where you're not contaminating the maf is way more work than it's worth. How many owners are going to get that right? There have been many posts experiencing probs, whether their fault or not. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it! There may be certain apps where you might want a filter that you can clean and treat instead of replacing, but Lexus isn't one of them, imo. these owners that won't get it right are the same ones that are too lazy to check their oil and burn up their engines.... if you take the time to clean and reoil your filter and clean you maf sensor regularly... no problems..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... To get that balance where you're not contaminating the maf is way more work than it's worth. How many owners are going to get that right? There have been many posts experiencing probs, whether their fault or not. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it! There may be certain apps where you might want a filter that you can clean and treat instead of replacing, but Lexus isn't one of them, imo. these owners that won't get it right are the same ones that are too lazy to check their oil and burn up their engines.... if you take the time to clean and reoil your filter and clean you maf sensor regularly... no problems..... Hey flop, this topic has been threaded to death. So let's agree to diagree, and allow "each to his own" and happy we'll hope he'll be! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop170 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... To get that balance where you're not contaminating the maf is way more work than it's worth. How many owners are going to get that right? There have been many posts experiencing probs, whether their fault or not. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it! There may be certain apps where you might want a filter that you can clean and treat instead of replacing, but Lexus isn't one of them, imo. these owners that won't get it right are the same ones that are too lazy to check their oil and burn up their engines.... if you take the time to clean and reoil your filter and clean you maf sensor regularly... no problems..... Hey flop, this topic has been threaded to death. So let's agree to diagree, and allow "each to his own" and happy we'll hope he'll be! :D i agree... but i'm just saying it hasn't been proven that these filters hurt the life of a motor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 there is no problem as long as you clean and re oil it properly.... which also means cleaning your maf sensor regularly as well.... k&n filters have been around since 1969... if there was a problem you seriously think they would still be selling them left and right.... To get that balance where you're not contaminating the maf is way more work than it's worth. How many owners are going to get that right? There have been many posts experiencing probs, whether their fault or not. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it! There may be certain apps where you might want a filter that you can clean and treat instead of replacing, but Lexus isn't one of them, imo. these owners that won't get it right are the same ones that are too lazy to check their oil and burn up their engines.... if you take the time to clean and reoil your filter and clean you maf sensor regularly... no problems..... Hey flop, this topic has been threaded to death. So let's agree to diagree, and allow "each to his own" and happy we'll hope he'll be! :D i agree... but i'm just saying it hasn't been proven that these filters hurt the life of a motor... Don't know if you've read this thread: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...30&start=30 As I suggested, I don't know that there's anything more to add. I say it's timeout for a beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flop170 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 well either like it or hate it... the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrome04 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 All I know is the the K&N I had on my 97 let in a TON of dust. I'll never buy another K&N. To me... just a waste, and it doesn't even filter good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcdonal86 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 A litmus test for potential K&N users: Would you be comfortable running your car without an air filter at all? If yes, then get a K&N filter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mann777 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I read about some of the benefits of replacing the air intake filter system with a K&N type system (small increase in HP, slightly better MPG, better response in high gear, no future filter replacement, etc. An engine is essentially an air pump. I did it following the various information gathered in process and I got my LS screwed up in the bargain collecting dust and ended up everytime cleaning the MAF sensors. And now I have reverted back to the OEM, it has been perfect. And what I gathered is You can try to bring as much air as you want through the intake, but the engine is only going to take in what it can exhaust. So if the exhaust can't push the amount of air that the intake can pull....guess what? You've just wasted your money. Secondly, while K&N filters do allow a larger volume of air to come through into the intake, the problem is that the let more dirt through to accomplish it. Maybe the exhaust system needs a revamp, I do not know of the cat back style systems work. Maybe someone who has got these got give some info..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRK Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 The K&N FIPK (fuel injection performance kit) does increase power in many cars - but because it replaces the stock restrictive tubing from the air filter to the mass meter. On Ford 5.0 Mustangs, and LT-1 Camaros, it can make 5-7 hp. On the Camaro it's a $200.00 kit! But that's at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE, because anything less, and the stock system is quite capable. The LS intake system uses a Heimholtz resonator, and is very well designed - no gains to be had. The K&N replacement filters for the stock air box are a waste of time. As I have ALWAYS said, if you think a new stock paper filter is restrictive, take it out and drive the car briefly. If you feel a difference, which is unlikely, the K&N will produce less than that, as it's still a filter. I can't think of any parts that Lexus makes that are less than great quality. Brake pads, all filters, brake rotors, the works. There is little room for improvement. And just how often do we use full throttle, and how long do we stay at that opening? Not very often, and I'm a leadfoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali26 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 In my opinion if oiled filters were better than dry filters, i'm pretty sure they would have put those in. Why some people think they can engineer better than those lexus hired is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 <br />In my opinion if oiled filters were better than dry filters, i'm pretty sure they would have put those in. <br /><br />Why some people think they can engineer better than those lexus hired is beyond me.<br /> Exactly right! If people always accepted the status quo, we'd never have Tuner shops. so, can't blame them for wanting to improve what's already there. However, making partial mods makes no sense at all. Like putting on bigger rims without the appropriate adjustment for the tire size. Putting aero kits on cars that can't go faster than 60 mph. Or filling with super when your engine requires only reg. Etc., etc. If you're going to mod your car, be smart about it. Todays cars have been so well engineered and systems integration perform so well, that aftermarket improvement is often minimal unless it's radical and expensive. If someone thinks that simply changing the air filter in a highly sophisticated car like the LS will gain any performance advantage, they're delusional. Redo the entire induction and exhaust, now you're talking. Anything halfbaked is bound to cause more probs than solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Mike Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 What.....all the same arguments from the other thread just copied and pasted over here?? ;) FWIW, I do not think there is any benefit to using a K&N drop in replacement in the LS400. That being said, I have been using a FIPK for well over 100K miles on a Grand Cherokee with tremendous results and zero trouble. I hear lots of people making claims about dirt, sensors, etc; I have NEVER had a single problem with mine. The filter is very simple to clean and to oil, and I have never had any problems with the filter oil getting on anything downstream. Any advantage from an aftermarket air filter/intake system will depend entirely on the vehicle. I have no problem with people not liking the concept of a K&N. However, when the unsubstantiated claims about sensor damage, engine damage, etc start flying, I have to call bunk. I have proof in my garage of a long-life beneficial application. Yet, I have never seen any evidence of all these claims of horrible calamities from the use of K&N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mann777 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 This is purely not as an argument but for for an experiment sometime, open the K&N and an OEM and compare the total filter media area. Of course, that doesn't account for the filter media's effectiveness. Most don't beat OEM but rather allow larger chunks of contaminants in pursuit of added horsepower claims, which is horsefeathers in reality. Technically it maybe annecdotal info and could be taken with a grain of salt but regardless should be looked at in the K&N versus others debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrome04 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Or... you could run a K&N and just take it out after a while and look at all the dust on the piping AFTER the filter :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ Mike Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 man777: This definitely depends upon the application. In my case where I use a K&N FIPK on my Grand Cherokee, I have a large conical K&N filter vs. a much smaller flat air filter that came stock. So, in my case, I have a MUCH GREATER filter surface area with the K&N than with stock. jcrome: The airtube on my FIPK is clean as a whistle after 10 years and over 100K miles. You may have different experience than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrome04 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ... apparently I do have a much different experience than you. As I am referring to a K&N replacement air filter for an LS400, and not a FIPK for a Grand Cherokee. Many people who have used the K&N oem replacement filter on their LS's have notice a large amount of dust coming though. It's because of this simple fact I will never own another K&N product in my lifetime. Why pay 3x as much for a filter that doesn't filter nearly as well????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 man777: This definitely depends upon the application. In my case where I use a K&N FIPK on my Grand Cherokee, I have a large conical K&N filter vs. a much smaller flat air filter that came stock. So, in my case, I have a MUCH GREATER filter surface area with the K&N than with stock.jcrome: The airtube on my FIPK is clean as a whistle after 10 years and over 100K miles. You may have different experience than I do. Hi AZ Mike, Just curious... how often did you remove, clean, re-oil, and re-install your K&Ns?? As I mentioned before, I ran K&Ns on three sandrails for about 8 years (perfect application). I cleaned them and installed fresh after every trip to the dunes. I also ran "Outer-Wears" (panty-hose) over the top of the K&Ns... this was a big help to reduce sand/dust build up. What I noticed after two seasons (18 trips to the dunes per season or about 9 actual clean, air dry, re-oil procedures) was the gauze fibers started to break down and the spaces in the mesh started to get larger. The oil globules after re-oiling started to get bigger because they did not soak into the gauze as well. These larger "holes" allowed more air flow, but also allowed more dust and sand to enter the carb. After a week end of fun and frolic, I noticed when I took the filter off the carb, I could see little patches of very fine dust that had collected in some areas on the inside top the carb. This was my first indication of a break down in the filtering capability. These filters were subjected to some very harsh and very bumpy, and very exposed conditions to the environment, BUT it did tell me something about the filters. I experimented with the amount of K&N oil I sprayed on the cleaned and dried filters, but obviously, as you must know, the amount of "control" is very limited. I usually allowed the filters to air dry about one week before spraying them, and another week before actually using them. Since sand railing for me was WOT as much as possible, gas mileage wasn't even a consideration. My engines were no where near the cost of my close friends running $4,000 and $6,000 engines (back in 1980 that was a junk a change for an engine!!), but I still tried to keep them running trouble free. I was one of very few guys I ran with that didn't have the common blubbering "dirty carb" problems. I think that was mainly due to my diligence about maintenance on my buggy. I threw the K&Ns away and bought a new set after two seasons. If I still had a sand rail, would I use them again?.. Absolutely. I wish I had photographed the filters with a macro lens as time went on. I think it would have revealed how the fibers broke down. In no way am I saying what I experienced was "scientific", but it was just my limited experience with K&N filters in an off-road application. Anyway, if they work for you... like they say -- If it ain't broke... don't fixi it! :D Nice writeup R&B! Maybe other K&N devotees will pick up where you left off and post some of their observations/photos. I'm all for a balanced perspective, regardless of my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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