Third Row Option?

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

I've called Lexus to find out about new and redesigned model of RX400h and it's option to have 3rd row sit. Well it's like calling Verizon to find out when Fios is going to be available-waist of time.

Since we're on the market for a mid-size luxury car with 3rd row siting available our first shot and hope was that next RX hybrid would offer it. If that was the case we could have wait another year or so and just trade our RX for it. Unfortunately this is not the case and the only Lexus that offers it is either GX or LX-both outdated shapes and in LX case-ugly looking. Looks like we're going back to Germans for MB R350-drove this car over the weekend and can't say a bad word about it (kids love that huge sunroof). And yes fuel economy is much better on RX but for the 10k miles we make a year it makes a $300-$400 difference in fuel. Of course we'd love to keep driving green but there's nothing available for what we need-not in luxury sector. Unless there's something on the horizon that we're not aware of??

[s10]

As far as I know no 3rd row version is coming.

MB R350 - 10.000 miles - average 17 mpg - 589 gallons @ $4 = $2.356

Lexus Rx 400H - 10.000 miles - average 28 mpg (personally I'm getting 29,3 now) - 357 gallons @ $4 = $1.428

Difference in yearly fuel consumption $928

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

As far as I know no 3rd row version is coming.

MB R350 - 10.000 miles - average 17 mpg - 589 gallons @ $4 = $2.356

Lexus Rx 400H - 10.000 miles - average 28 mpg (personally I'm getting 29,3 now) - 357 gallons @ $4 = $1.428

Difference in yearly fuel consumption $928

Buahahahahahahaha

29.3-good one-what's your average speed?-40mph. Also do you ever accelerate or always getting *BLEEP*ed off those behind you?? Well bottom line if you don't want to be an *BLEEP* by slowing everyone else behind you and drive a car like a driver-not a grandma getting weekly groceries-you'll never get this number. I drive RX like I drive my other cars and at 17k we average 22mpg. And btw 17 is the lower city consumption-let's say you get it on average. Do the math now and please stop with bull*BLEEP*ting with your fuel efficiency. If you indeed get 29.3-than the same way you're driving RX you'll get 24 on MB.

Now even if it was close to $900 RX still doesn't offer the third row seating and that's the bottom line for us.

[s10]

Well, if you don't believe me, that's fine. But those are the figures I get, without hindering anybody. It is only slightly above average. I should ad that I mostly drive in city traffic, so stop and go.

In any case, if you get only 22 mpg, it is more than likely that with your driving style you would get 14 or 15 mpg in the MB.

So in that case:

MB R350 - 10.000 miles - average 15 mpg - 667 gallons @ $4 = $2.667

Lexus Rx 400H - 10.000 miles - average 22 mpg - 454 gallons @ $4 = $1.819

Difference in yearly fuel consumption $848

[vinovelo]

Well, if you don't believe me, that's fine. But those are the figures I get, without hindering anybody.

I have to agree that 29.3 is WAAAY on the high side. The bell curve top is in the range of 24 - 26 mpg. The computer is ALWAYS 1 MPG higher than actual too. I seem to be getting 27 and that is if I make an extreme effort to get the 27 as well, taking every effort to coax the ICE to stay off by going slow enough to run on batteries for 1/2 mile at a time using pulse and glide methods and keeping highway speeds near 65 MPH whenever possible. It is extremely difficult to do so as not to impede traffic. Short trips of several miles also KILL the mileage since the first 2 -3 miles the ICE runs to get everything up to temperature.

I think the original estimate for fuel savings are pretty much on the money. If I just drove this vehicle without employing any of the fuel saving tricks I would not be surprised at all to get around 22 - 24 MPG. If I were stuck in 20+ miles of peak traffic every day exclusively with little to no "normal" speed driving, maybe, just maybe, I would get just a little better if I were extremely careful. Driving in cold weather or very hot with the A/C running a lot and forget it.

Don't get me wrong I really like the 400h but the cost and complexity of the hybrid drive train for fuel efficiency alone is clearly not worth it. The CVT's shiftless smoothness quiet ride, seamless and abundant power are better reasons. The fact that when I AM stuck in traffic get very good mileage is icing on the cake.

/Steve

[s10]

Well, if you don't believe me, that's fine. But those are the figures I get, without hindering anybody.

I have to agree that 29.3 is WAAAY on the high side. The bell curve top is in the range of 24 - 26 mpg. The computer is ALWAYS 1 MPG higher than actual too. I seem to be getting 27 and that is if I make an extreme effort to get the 27 as well, taking every effort to coax the ICE to stay off by going slow enough to run on batteries for 1/2 mile at a time using pulse and glide methods and keeping highway speeds near 65 MPH whenever possible. It is extremely difficult to do so as not to impede traffic. Short trips of several miles also KILL the mileage since the first 2 -3 miles the ICE runs to get everything up to temperature.

I think the original estimate for fuel savings are pretty much on the money. If I just drove this vehicle without employing any of the fuel saving tricks I would not be surprised at all to get around 22 - 24 MPG. If I were stuck in 20+ miles of peak traffic every day exclusively with little to no "normal" speed driving, maybe, just maybe, I would get just a little better if I were extremely careful. Driving in cold weather or very hot with the A/C running a lot and forget it.

Don't get me wrong I really like the 400h but the cost and complexity of the hybrid drive train for fuel efficiency alone is clearly not worth it. The CVT's shiftless smoothness quiet ride, seamless and abundant power are better reasons. The fact that when I AM stuck in traffic get very good mileage is icing on the cake.

/Steve

My board computer indicates 24.3 as an average. But if I calculate the amount of gallons I tank and the distance I drive, I get the 29.3 average (on my last tank, the one before was 28.6)

That the board computer is slightly off is only normal as it calculates only the amounts of gas consumed while driving, not when standing still. Since I drive mostly stop and go, driving in L.A., and since I prefer not to use the airco and do not carry half my life in the trunk, these figures are completely possible.

btw I know people who get better mpg with their RX, just check this forum.

Now the pat about the RX not worth buying for the fuel efficiency alone. I completely disagree. With the RX you have a comfortable, luxury car with enough space and consumes little when compared to other cars... and the few $ the hybrid costs extra you get back, almost double, when you resell the car... somehting most commenters forget when they talk about "recouping the extra $$ of a hybrid".

[jrober]

It is amazing to me the wide range of difference in mileage between drivers and cars. My mileage screen right now reads 30.2 mpg for the last 2200 miles (I can send an email to prove it). This includes about 40% freeway driving (at 65mph) and 60% city driving from my country home to work (average speed is 45-55 mph). I certainly don't drive with hypermiling techniques except that I try to drive at the speed limit on the freeways. I live in WI and haven't needed the AC much this summer so that helps.

I couldn't get only 22 mpg on my car no matter how fast and hard I drove it. I even towed my 2500 lb boat on the freeway up to Canada for 700 miles this spring at 65 mph and averaged 20.2 mpg. I have calculated the mileage manually on 3 separate occasions and with each tank the computer mileage was within 1 mpg (usually the computer was 0.5-1 mpg high).

Makes me wonder if there is something different between individual cars. If I started seeing 22-24 mpg, my car would be back at the dealer ASAP.

[Gryphon]

Two 2007 RX400h's, two different drivers, two different driving styles--both of ours get between 22.5 and 23.0 mpg, mostly city driving. But my service writer has the answer: Lexus recommends only name brand fuel, never discounted brands like Costco, and claims I can improve my mileage 2-3 mpg. Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk.

Tom

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

Two 2007 RX400h's, two different drivers, two different driving styles--both of ours get between 22.5 and 23.0 mpg, mostly city driving. But my service writer has the answer: Lexus recommends only name brand fuel, never discounted brands like Costco, and claims I can improve my mileage 2-3 mpg. Yuk, yuk, yuk, yuk.

Tom

Yeah and if you buy gas from Mobile and mix it with their special mixture you'd even get 5+ on mpg-total b.s all the way. I would have to agree that the new EPA estimates are probably on the money and getting between 23-26mpg is probably what the most of the RX's are getting with again "normal" driving. That being said estimates are done same way for all the cars with real driving conditions. So 24/hwy and 26/city sound about right-since our trips are 90% hwy it's really not 800 or 900 difference.Now there is no way to get anywhere near 30mpg on this car driving 65-70 on highway and in the city with short 15-20 min drives. Now going back to subject "Third Row Seat" is not an option for the future and it's very unfortunate-we wouldn't have this discussion here if it was.

[RX400h]

Still, MB has the distinction of being the most unreliable luxury vehicle manufacturer (large manufacturers, so skip Range Rovers) here in the US, as evidenced by Consumer Reports.

Even if the R350 were a hybrid that was able to achieve 30 MPG, I would not buy one. I hear nothing but horrow stories from MB owners and former owners. If I were you, I'd wait; something larger than the RX as a hybrid is sure to be introduced, eventually.

[jrober]

"Looks like we're going back to Germans for MB R350"

Sounds like the best plan for you. At 22 mpg you obviously don't know how to drive a hybrid.

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

"Looks like we're going back to Germans for MB R350"

Sounds like the best plan for you. At 22 mpg you obviously don't know how to drive a hybrid.

At least I know how to drive and I'm sorry but driving 55 on the thruways is not for me-not my fault that 90% of my driving is highways and that speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph. Time is more valuable for me than 2 mpg on average. And why are you all crying about mpg-it's not the reason we have to get bigger car-looks like a lot of people are very narrow minded to just one aspect-MPG. Again and again I need at least 6 passenger car with two back sits for the kids-simple enough or not.

And please with this old story-MB is the least reliable of the luxury cars-BMW also? Well owned both and never had a problem unlike this time-but I guess changing tires after 10k and evaporator after 15k and oh yes battery is normal and doesn't affect reliability of the car.

Again I didn't bring reliability to the table neither-only argument was to have third row option. So far no post suggested any smart option but almost all of them argued about MPG-like it's the only and the most important feature-will those extra 5mpg take another 2 passengers??

[s10]

At least I know how to drive and I'm sorry but driving 55 on the thruways is not for me-not my fault that 90% of my driving is highways and that speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph. Time is more valuable for me than 2 mpg on average. And why are you all crying about mpg-it's not the reason we have to get bigger car-looks like a lot of people are very narrow minded to just one aspect-MPG. Again and again I need at least 6 passenger car with two back sits for the kids-simple enough or not.

And please with this old story-MB is the least reliable of the luxury cars-BMW also? Well owned both and never had a problem unlike this time-but I guess changing tires after 10k and evaporator after 15k and oh yes battery is normal and doesn't affect reliability of the car.

Again I didn't bring reliability to the table neither-only argument was to have third row option. So far no post suggested any smart option but almost all of them argued about MPG-like it's the only and the most important feature-will those extra 5mpg take another 2 passengers??

Why did you buy the RX400H? I see that already over a year ago you held a similar kind of discussion, with the same manners.

You clearly don't like your RX , so why are you asking if Lexus will come with a 3rd row seat version?

Buy a MB and be happy.

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

At least I know how to drive and I'm sorry but driving 55 on the thruways is not for me-not my fault that 90% of my driving is highways and that speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph. Time is more valuable for me than 2 mpg on average. And why are you all crying about mpg-it's not the reason we have to get bigger car-looks like a lot of people are very narrow minded to just one aspect-MPG. Again and again I need at least 6 passenger car with two back sits for the kids-simple enough or not.

And please with this old story-MB is the least reliable of the luxury cars-BMW also? Well owned both and never had a problem unlike this time-but I guess changing tires after 10k and evaporator after 15k and oh yes battery is normal and doesn't affect reliability of the car.

Again I didn't bring reliability to the table neither-only argument was to have third row option. So far no post suggested any smart option but almost all of them argued about MPG-like it's the only and the most important feature-will those extra 5mpg take another 2 passengers??

Why did you buy the RX400H? I see that already over a year ago you held a similar kind of discussion, with the same manners.

You clearly don't like your RX , so why are you asking if Lexus will come with a 3rd row seat version?

Buy a MB and be happy.

Well if it's so hard to understand-When we bought the RX we had one kid-next year we plan third one and need more space. And Year ago it was a different discussion more about options of RX than it's space-options that are still light years behind other cars.

[RX400h]

Perhaps the Highlander Hybrid would be a better choice, then. I hear it is available with a third-row seat option.

And certainly, the one MB you've had may have been reliable, but odds are very much against you if you buy another and expect to keep it more than one or two years.

[s10]

Well if it's so hard to understand-When we bought the RX we had one kid-next year we plan third one and need more space. And Year ago it was a different discussion more about options of RX than it's space-options that are still light years behind other cars.

Listen, I'm not a moron.. I can figure out why you want a 3rd row option.. that was not the point.

[SW03ES]

Chill out guys.

To the OP who said the LX was an outdated body design, the LX is all new this year.

The reality of the situation is, if most of your trips are highway trips, you're not getting the full benefit of the hybrid system. As for the R class, its never appealed to me sharing a platform with the Chrysler Pacifica. Both vehicles are...excuse my bluntness...hideous...

But if it fills your needs it fills your needs.

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

Chill out guys.

To the OP who said the LX was an outdated body design, the LX is all new this year.

The reality of the situation is, if most of your trips are highway trips, you're not getting the full benefit of the hybrid system. As for the R class, its never appealed to me sharing a platform with the Chrysler Pacifica. Both vehicles are...excuse my bluntness...hideous...

But if it fills your needs it fills your needs.

Well taste should not be discussed as it's personal and individual thing-I find them both good looking and if Pacifica was made but any other than american company I'd buy it. As far as new design of LX or Toyota Highlander -i find those hideous-just my personal taste. Toyota's redesign went same wrong way as BMW's in 2003. And if indeed Highlander was nice looking car it would be the best option for us after RX400.

[SW03ES]

Why can't tastes be discussed? You've offered plenty of opinions, we're not welcome to offer ours? Dish it out but you can't take it?

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

Why can't tastes be discussed? You've offered plenty of opinions, we're not welcome to offer ours? Dish it out but you can't take it?

Look man don't want to offend you, but opinions are opinions and are up for discussion. Taste is very individual thing for every human being-you might like yellow color I might like the red someone else might like blue-no intelligent person will discuss it-this is the way it is and was given for everyone of us. Some people are !Removed! some are straight same way-no discussion will change that. If you want to discuss opinions-fine-but I won't discuss taste with you. Besides yet you haven't brought anything intelligent about cars with third row sit into the discussion.

Now. I looked around and it looks like X5 also offers 3rd row sit. Anyone knows if it allows child sit to be mounted in the back-form the pictures it doesn't look like you can? Looked into Lexus GX, and Volvo X90 and they both have third row but without hinges for the sits so basically they make third row with very little space for it and don't allow the child sit to be mounted properly-a little weird because no grown person will be able to sit on those anyway.

Also anyone familiar with Acura-looks like they have third row but I don't know anything about neither the company nor the car.

[jrober]

A friend of mine has an Acura MDX and it is a great car. The 3rd seat is pretty tight though although this will be the case with any SUV that isn't approaching school-bus dimensions. He gets lousy mileage but so do you because the "speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph" so that shouldn't matter much :).

[Gryphon]

Ho hum. Wondering if someone is driving daddy's car again. :D

Tom

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

A friend of mine has an Acura MDX and it is a great car. The 3rd seat is pretty tight though although this will be the case with any SUV that isn't approaching school-bus dimensions. He gets lousy mileage but so do you because the "speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph" so that shouldn't matter much :).

True with the space ;) -that's why I have them in mind to use for 2 kids when needed. Fuel efficiency isn't the biggest factor in my case-of course not planning on buying any American gas guzzlers. Checked with BMW, Highlander and Acura MDX and they don't offer locks for child seats. Honda pilot offers only one in the third row.

BTW in our old 3 series BMW 80mph was the optimum speed for fuel efficiency-30-31mpg because of the power curve-as soon as you got down to 70 it would drop. Realized that one time driving to Florida.

[SW03ES]

Look man don't want to offend you, but opinions are opinions and are up for discussion. Taste is very individual thing for every human being-you might like yellow color I might like the red someone else might like blue-no intelligent person will discuss it-this is the way it is and was given for everyone of us. Some people are !Removed! some are straight same way-no discussion will change that. If you want to discuss opinions-fine-but I won't discuss taste with you. Besides yet you haven't brought anything intelligent about cars with third row sit into the discussion.

So you say we can discuss opinions but not taste? So I can't discuss the fact that I don't like the styling of the R class but you can hammer the RXh on...basically everything and thats okay?

I get it...we can discuss whatever opinions we want...so long as they're yours.

You're a trip lol.

I think its an ugly vehicle, sorry. I wouldn't reccomend it to any of my friends (line from your first tirade).

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Look man don't want to offend you, but opinions are opinions and are up for discussion. Taste is very individual thing for every human being-you might like yellow color I might like the red someone else might like blue-no intelligent person will discuss it-this is the way it is and was given for everyone of us. Some people are !Removed! some are straight same way-no discussion will change that. If you want to discuss opinions-fine-but I won't discuss taste with you. Besides yet you haven't brought anything intelligent about cars with third row sit into the discussion.

So you say we can discuss opinions but not taste? So I can't discuss the fact that I don't like the styling of the R class but you can hammer the RXh on...basically everything and thats okay?

I get it...we can discuss whatever opinions we want...so long as they're yours.

You're a trip lol.

I think its an ugly vehicle, sorry. I wouldn't reccomend it to any of my friends (line from your first tirade).

No kidding. Man, I never heard someone get their panties in such a bunch just because someone gets 29mpg. God forbid anyone ever tell 'im that some of us here get in the 30's :P . . . even tho it's awd. Drive slow, or drive fast ... but baggin' on someone? What ever floats you gas gauge. You'd think if someone loves MB's so much they'd be posting over on the MB boards. Or writing Consumer Reports to complain about them reporting on MB's low quality / reliability. Meanwhile, Lexus takes #1 in reliability for the year.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=l...one+reliability

But don't get me wrong, my wife can get as low as 25mpg by making nothing but short trips & gunning from one red light to the next, like all those folks "whose time is sooooo important" :P