NY_RX400h_Savanah

Man just listen to yourself and knock yourself on the forehead. Talking to you,trying to explain something and getting any valuable information is like talking to our idiotic president Bush-and will get you nowhere. You don't even know what the taste is-which by the way you wanted to discuss to begin with your first post-not me-"Both vehicles are...excuse my bluntness...hideous...". And???-fine-it's your taste moron-I didn't argue whether you're right or wrong- I said that I like it's shape and don't like new Highlander or LX design. Nothing to discuss or argue about-won't change our tastes no matter what and it's pointless-but you have to have IQ above 90 to understand it. "Hammered"-didn't know that posting anything different than your opinions is hammering. Go to some specialist that will help you deal with your "Lexus" or "Taste" complex. I didn't start with my post to discuss looks of the cars which-again are different for every individual-but availability of the third row. Why do you post in the thread that is very clear what's about and not put anything associated with it-not a single post giving any valuable information. Obviously you have some complexes and take almost every discussion off the main topic to fit your own low level road. Did you even read my first post?? Did you see the question?? And BTW This forum is "Lexusownerclub" for Lexus owners -that includes enthusiasts but doesn't exclude all the others that are "just" the owners and have more or less critical things to say about the car they own.

So you say we can discuss opinions but not taste? So I can't discuss the fact that I don't like the styling of the R class but you can hammer the RXh on...basically everything and thats okay? I get it...we can discuss whatever opinions we want...so long as they're yours. You're a trip lol. I think its an ugly vehicle, sorry. I wouldn't reccomend it to any of my friends (line from your first tirade). Dude and it's fine that you don't like the look of the R series-I don't care-it's your taste-you're just proving my point. You can discuss whatever you want-I don't care-I just said I'm not discussing anybody's taste-BTW i didn't hammer RX400h's look-unless you didn't bother to check that. I like the way RX looks and if it has offered 3rd row or there were plans to offer it in the future-answer would be very simple. But Jeezzz-some of you guys can't get over the fact that there are other cars out there-being so narrow minded is really bad. No input whatsoever about 3rd row sit but hammering all other brands-very smart and intelligent. I'm not a MB nor BMW nor Lexus lover-Just because I spent 50k+ on Lexus doesn't mean I have to be loyal to that on brand for the rest of my life and shouldn't say anything that there's bad to say about it. Also is it so hard to understand and distinguish taste from opinion?I like blue-maybe you like red, I like Armani shirts-you might like Cavin Klein-do you really think it's up for discussion???-everything has a different look for every individual and intelligent people respect that. R350 seems to be decent size (and good looking for me)luxury car with third row sit and proper mounting hinges for child seats-that's all-I'm not buying one yet-since still looking for the best option. If you know any other intelligent option please share it and stop telling me how RX400h is the best car on the planet- I own one and know it's good and bad sides (yes there are some). But guess what-I need a third row seat option and besides 2-3 people here no one has brought anything to consideration. MPG won't make up for the space I'll need-can I put it any simpler? PS for Gryphon. Dady's car ;)-please come up with something better. My family lives 4k miles away for the past 12 years so I don't have that luxury.

True with the space ;) -that's why I have them in mind to use for 2 kids when needed. Fuel efficiency isn't the biggest factor in my case-of course not planning on buying any American gas guzzlers. Checked with BMW, Highlander and Acura MDX and they don't offer locks for child seats. Honda pilot offers only one in the third row. BTW in our old 3 series BMW 80mph was the optimum speed for fuel efficiency-30-31mpg because of the power curve-as soon as you got down to 70 it would drop. Realized that one time driving to Florida.

Look man don't want to offend you, but opinions are opinions and are up for discussion. Taste is very individual thing for every human being-you might like yellow color I might like the red someone else might like blue-no intelligent person will discuss it-this is the way it is and was given for everyone of us. Some people are !Removed! some are straight same way-no discussion will change that. If you want to discuss opinions-fine-but I won't discuss taste with you. Besides yet you haven't brought anything intelligent about cars with third row sit into the discussion. Now. I looked around and it looks like X5 also offers 3rd row sit. Anyone knows if it allows child sit to be mounted in the back-form the pictures it doesn't look like you can? Looked into Lexus GX, and Volvo X90 and they both have third row but without hinges for the sits so basically they make third row with very little space for it and don't allow the child sit to be mounted properly-a little weird because no grown person will be able to sit on those anyway. Also anyone familiar with Acura-looks like they have third row but I don't know anything about neither the company nor the car.

Well taste should not be discussed as it's personal and individual thing-I find them both good looking and if Pacifica was made but any other than american company I'd buy it. As far as new design of LX or Toyota Highlander -i find those hideous-just my personal taste. Toyota's redesign went same wrong way as BMW's in 2003. And if indeed Highlander was nice looking car it would be the best option for us after RX400.

Why did you buy the RX400H? I see that already over a year ago you held a similar kind of discussion, with the same manners. You clearly don't like your RX , so why are you asking if Lexus will come with a 3rd row seat version? Buy a MB and be happy. Well if it's so hard to understand-When we bought the RX we had one kid-next year we plan third one and need more space. And Year ago it was a different discussion more about options of RX than it's space-options that are still light years behind other cars.

At least I know how to drive and I'm sorry but driving 55 on the thruways is not for me-not my fault that 90% of my driving is highways and that speed we like to travel at is 70-80 mph. Time is more valuable for me than 2 mpg on average. And why are you all crying about mpg-it's not the reason we have to get bigger car-looks like a lot of people are very narrow minded to just one aspect-MPG. Again and again I need at least 6 passenger car with two back sits for the kids-simple enough or not. And please with this old story-MB is the least reliable of the luxury cars-BMW also? Well owned both and never had a problem unlike this time-but I guess changing tires after 10k and evaporator after 15k and oh yes battery is normal and doesn't affect reliability of the car. Again I didn't bring reliability to the table neither-only argument was to have third row option. So far no post suggested any smart option but almost all of them argued about MPG-like it's the only and the most important feature-will those extra 5mpg take another 2 passengers??

Yeah and if you buy gas from Mobile and mix it with their special mixture you'd even get 5+ on mpg-total b.s all the way. I would have to agree that the new EPA estimates are probably on the money and getting between 23-26mpg is probably what the most of the RX's are getting with again "normal" driving. That being said estimates are done same way for all the cars with real driving conditions. So 24/hwy and 26/city sound about right-since our trips are 90% hwy it's really not 800 or 900 difference.Now there is no way to get anywhere near 30mpg on this car driving 65-70 on highway and in the city with short 15-20 min drives. Now going back to subject "Third Row Seat" is not an option for the future and it's very unfortunate-we wouldn't have this discussion here if it was.

Buahahahahahahaha 29.3-good one-what's your average speed?-40mph. Also do you ever accelerate or always getting *BLEEP*ed off those behind you?? Well bottom line if you don't want to be an *BLEEP* by slowing everyone else behind you and drive a car like a driver-not a grandma getting weekly groceries-you'll never get this number. I drive RX like I drive my other cars and at 17k we average 22mpg. And btw 17 is the lower city consumption-let's say you get it on average. Do the math now and please stop with bull*BLEEP*ting with your fuel efficiency. If you indeed get 29.3-than the same way you're driving RX you'll get 24 on MB. Now even if it was close to $900 RX still doesn't offer the third row seating and that's the bottom line for us.

I've called Lexus to find out about new and redesigned model of RX400h and it's option to have 3rd row sit. Well it's like calling Verizon to find out when Fios is going to be available-waist of time. Since we're on the market for a mid-size luxury car with 3rd row siting available our first shot and hope was that next RX hybrid would offer it. If that was the case we could have wait another year or so and just trade our RX for it. Unfortunately this is not the case and the only Lexus that offers it is either GX or LX-both outdated shapes and in LX case-ugly looking. Looks like we're going back to Germans for MB R350-drove this car over the weekend and can't say a bad word about it (kids love that huge sunroof). And yes fuel economy is much better on RX but for the 10k miles we make a year it makes a $300-$400 difference in fuel. Of course we'd love to keep driving green but there's nothing available for what we need-not in luxury sector. Unless there's something on the horizon that we're not aware of??

I can fax you one if you want-had it done recently-same crap was happening-luckily dealer new right away what to do-I didn't even mentioned evaporator exchange-the key word was "white particles on dashboard" ;). Anyway that was free unlike 15k service and few other things like filter replacement, tire rotation, and alignment that came up to about $1100-auch -miss my BMW service ;)

OK my 2 cents into the subject- the Mileage, finish and for me look and design of Lexus is better-it's a different story when it comes to electronic and electric systems (and again I'm not talking about hybrid system). Bunch of annoying things like not so great GPS system (and from seeing it in Acura that has awesome one), lack of lots of features like Cruising range, average speed et. and stupid design allowing your car to drawn battery dead when interior lights are left on. But you're the one making decision and agreeing with the compromise-think and analyze what's more important-annoying Lock on GPS or mileage and so on. There is no car that is perfect but Lexus for sure gives you reliability-I don't know anything about that with Acura. Again it's good that you're open for suggestion and you have wide array of choices.

You're missing the point-no one tells you to put CNG tank into the sport/leisure car nor use Run Flat tires. Talk is about everyday driving cars -like Prius where no one would probably care what ratings tire has. And yes Europeans drive diesels but you know what-even with diesel more expensive they make up with efficiency-like 1.3 engine made by Citroen, Peugeot and Fiat getting you 70 miles on a galon, or even VW 1.6 TD that makes 50. Maybe that's why Prius in Europe has such a small market. But wait-diesel stinks is loud, used only in big trucks, etc. etc.-at least thats the stereotype-just like with CNG-OMG it will explode under my !Removed! ;) The bottom line is that even with current technologies the options are out there-CNG/Hybrid or Diesel/Hybrid-something along those lines but it all comes down to marketing and again stereotypes-Americans (most) don't give a damn about being biggest polluter in the world and are not ready to turn things around. Thank god we have great minds like Gore and great states like Cali or NY.ultimately it would be great to drive Hydrogens-I'll be the first to buy one if they become available-even with extra money to pay for car and refueling. PS RX is in the different category-it's a luxury car that allows us to have a luxury and save environment at the same time. And as far as "CNG cars not being ready for prime time"-they're around for over 20 years!!

I'd say 25-30% cars in europe run on CNG and I have never heard nor seen of any accident involving CNG tank explosion-in fact it's much easier to cause explosion with regular gas tank. As far as mileage- I had Alfa Romeo 154 running on CNG and it was getting about 20% worse mileage on CNG than on a gas-but keep in mind that CNG in Europe is 1/2 the price of Gas and is much more cleaner to burn. Yes tank is pain in the neck but that's why designers came up with Run flat tire to get that extra space for CNG tank. Almost every manufacturer in Europe offers factory installed CNG system for about $500 more and that is very smart direction. For first few years living here I was wondering why such a great idea isn't implemented here yet-but after living here for almost a decade and getting to know all the American stereotypes I'm not surprised anymore.

;) Not very aggressive but quick in certain situations-it's New York and it's impossible to be passive. But getting back to loudness of RX400-one other aspect of it is that when the car is driven with combustion engine off and while accelerating one gets on-our perception is totally different as if we had engine on before accelerating. Another words our ears will detect and let us know about much greater sound level difference. Constantly running engine will create "white noise" effect" and changing speed will only give us partial increase of what it would be without engine on before. Next time I get RX350 I'll use SL meter to check sound levels while driving, accelerating, idling and braking to compare those in RX400 and get final word on it-my take is that even RX400 seems to be more annoying with acceleration actual numbers might be the same or very close.

I think you've got the RXs reversed! The RX350 doesn't have a CVT transmission (I believe), so the RX400h is smoother under most conditions. An yes, a bigger, heavier vehicle may certainly have more sound deadening and a softer suspension; I understand that the new Suburbans are very quiet, but at 6600 lbs and 12 MPG, they'd better be! Actually, the LS600h is probably even more luxurious than any GX, but traction in snow is not its strong point. I does average 20 MPG, though. Correct- and I didn't. Because of CVT in RX400h car is so loud and annoying when accelerating-doesn't happen in RX350 and we all know it's the way CVT works. As far as being smooth- they're almost equal -didn't really feel the step switching in 350-I was really amazed. To do the simple test-drive RX350 from 0 to 80mph with full acceleration, and do the same in RX400-that's what I did and based my opinion on. Since I do accelerate a lot-living and driving in NYC-that was first thing to look after. For ilovelexus2007-RX350m is more spacious because has no batteries under the back seats. And car is quiet indeed but not when you accelerate fast or brake-do you really enjoy that whistling noise? And I'll agree-you get more torque from RX400 and feeling of faster acceleration-not sure what the numbers are for both cars.

I haven't owned GX but had a chance to drive one last week-that friend just purchased. I also got RX350 as a loaner 2 weeks ago and to be honest with you RX400h falls short to the comfort levels in both vehicles. RX350 seems to be less noisy overall-and that has to do with use of CVT. Very smooth acceleration-don't really feel the steps in a gearbox and what's very annoying in 400h when you accelerate fast-the engine is not as loud. I noticed the difference right away and was shocked. When it comes to GX-oh well let's just say those 2 cars are in different leagues in terms of comfort-especially with ability to adjust suspension in GX. Just my 2 cents. Compromises, compromises, compromises-it's all I can say and wish they'll make GX hybrid one day. Just like GM did with suburban and yukon.

Never one to miss an opportunity to bash MBZ, eh? I grow more convinced by the day that you're a Lexus employee. I don't think anyone would have doubts about that. Lexus is THE BEST, MB, BMW- BAD BAD ;)- well it' not so hard to figure out who's here ;).

I have said in many posts here that Lexus's customer treatment is light years behind that you get from BMW or MB along with imperfect electrical design (I'm not talking about hybrid part of the system) Now given your situation I'd have my lawyer call their office and let them know that the only way we can settle is in court. I would also go public with the way they have threaten you. This is ridiculous-you should get fair price for it at least.

Well $200 is a cost of service for Lexus in NY and probably other places and honestly why buy 50k+ car and service it yourself?? So that's a fact-compared to $0 you pay for BMW it doesn't look good for Lexus but come on-it's not a deciding factor whether you'd buy a car again or not. Just to be clear on Oil changes- first of all Lexus designed the engine, chose oil for it and I see no point of arguing-there is engineering behind it and we have no right to under mind years of education and experience of those people. Same goes for BMW or MB-it's their car and that's how it was designed-they must be doing something right if in F1 they rule-not a Toyota nor Honda (most powerful engine belongs to BMW). Besides every car I owed in the past including Alfa Romeo ( I moved to US 8 years ago) used synthetic oil and intervals were every 20000 km which is about 13k miles. Mobile1 oil that is sold in Europe recommends change every 25000 km- so I really don't see anything wrong with it. Besides BMW has separate processor analyzing oil and if your car needs an oil change sooner it will indicate it (with my driving instead of 15k almost always it was 11-12k). Just keep in mind that our country is run by corporate environment-how are they going to make money if we change oil every 13-15k miles??? Now getting back to real question-would you buy it again-I think I still would- like every car out there-it has annoying compromises but so far RX is the best LUXURY hybrid SUV out there and if we can do something to help the enviroment we should do so.

Well Supprise, Supprise-what do you think that they will admit what has been screwed up in the design stage. There used to be a pdf file of memo for Lexus technicians what to do and how to calibrate and had very clear info that calibration had to be performed every time aux battery was disconnected or discharged-used to because someone (definitely not associated with Lexus ;) ) erased it.

Few other things while I also got used to my BMW and than switched to RX: -don't leave your interior manual lights on-they won't go off when you arm your alarm with double click, -once you do leave those light on-get some extra time off to go to the dealer for ISC calibration, and other functions restore -don't look for information "miles till empty"-it doesn't exist -don't look for the information about avg. speed-it doesn't exist -don't look for the traction control system override-it doesn't exist -stop wondering why your radio information is not being displayed on the GPS screen, -stop wondering about personalized setting for different keys (changing them when different key is being used)-doesn't exist -get ready with about $200-300 for each maintenance visit-no it's not free and no-they don't use syntetic -start looking for new tires if you were unlucky to get Good Years-they might last 15k-they might-I'm changing them at 12k Bottom line is that electric and electronic system(i'm not talking about hybrid system!!) in Lexus is few years behind BMW-nothing you can do. Other than that enjoy very comfy, quiet and pleasurable ride. PS Ahhhh and forget about "Dent Doctor" greeting you at the service appointment and asking if you're up for breakfast and coffee ;) I love beer too-October Fest is the key ;)

I think you mean something other than "raving", which more or less means "praising". And regarding plasma TVs, I spent many an hour visiting store after store and studying picture quality, back when 1080i was the best (2 years ago). Everytime I compared the Panasonic plasmas to ANY of the competition, it was not a contest at all. The Panasonic plasma was superior in every way. I'm not sure why you didn't think so, but everyone else I spoke to who was looking for a big screen said the same thing - Panasonic rules the plasma roost. In fact, their current 1080P sets are even more incredible. Competion is very good, however - not as theings were 2 years ago. As far as Consumer Reports goes. I am a long-time subscriber and can tell you that the "ratings" they publish are based directly upon consumer-completed questionaires that are sent to us, annually. A large percentage of German vehicles simply cannot be compared to Japanese vehicles when it comes to high-reliability, based upon thousands of "reports" by the very people who spend countless hours in their vehicles each day. You can try to deny this all you want, but the fact is that there is no other organization that is as thorough as CU when it comes to product information. The fact that they do not accept advertisements speaks volumes about their integrity. Diesel engines are certainly getting better, but for many, the old stinky, noisey versions from MB and Volkswagen left a very bad taste in people's mouths. It still doesn't help that diesel fuel is commonly more expensive than premium fuel. Diesel engines are also very expensive to manufacture -another issue that cannot be ignored. Did you ever compare Panasonic to Fujitsu or Runco- or even Pioneer Elite. Working in this industry I can only give you car-like comparison Panasonic is a KIA of plasma screens and Runco or Fujistu is a Ferrari. Now I understand you're extremely happy with Panasonic- without reference point about true quality what else can you say. Same goes for cars -you're in love with Lexus and can't open your mind and accept that there are other cars is some respect better in some worst-but they're out there.

Not sure who you're referring to as "constipated, lazy, companies". If you're talking about the big 3 US auto makers... the same ones that lobbied to change the MPG calculations... the same ones that think that ethanol powered vehicles are the wave of the future (please don't get me started on what a joke ethanol is)... then I agree with you. However, in the context of this thread I really don't think you can include MBZ or BMW in that company. BMW is at the forefront of hydrogen fuel cell development. MBZ has been, and continues to be, at the forefront of safety innovation and clean diesel. Just because they didn't jump on the hybrid bandwagon on day 1 doesn't mean they're not innovators in other areas. Besides, I believe that gas/electric hybrids are merely an interim technology solution anyway. Even if hybrids are the long-term wave of the future, to use your analogies, right now we're in turn 1 of lap 1, or about 3 steps into the marathon. Toyota definitely doesn't have an insurmountible lead in this market. I totally agree. This thread is becoming a little too narrow-minded. Come on guys- we all agree that RX is a great car with some compromises not everyone likes, but.... Lexus is not the only company here and putting down BMW or MB just because they didn't do anything about hybrids? Hmm those companies exist far longer than any Japanese car maker and contributed to the car industry far more than Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan all together. Now we can all get excited about 40-50 mpg on avg getting from Prius but guess what there are diesels out there made by Peugueot, Citroen, MB and others that will get you even further than that. Also about 20% cars i Europe run on CNG. And yes hydrogen technology seems to be a future of the car industry if we want to save not only money but also our planet-who's leading there?? It gets me annoyed when some people here (some of them Lexus customers-some of them Lexus employees) jumping into very false conclusions- it's true that MB and BMW sales dropped drastically over the past years but not because of the reliability reasons-if some of you didn't realize that yet-our beloved $ dollar has lost almost 50% against Euro in the past 5 years (when started 1E=0,75c now it's 1E=1,45). Now in terms of customer service don't even go there because from my personal experience Lexus has a light years to go to get to BMW or MB level-honestly-I owed BMW before and wife owes MB now so we have some reference points. To say the least-she doesn't have to visit dealer every time her battery dies (BTW it never did because some smart German designed electrical system very well) as I had to do it 4 times already-hat is a waste of time!! Toyota should get well deserved credit for pushing hybrid technology and helping the environment-but don't forget other car makers work hard on other technologies as well and we should hope they succeed. The bottom line is that please stop raving about MB or BMW based on Customer Reports-guess what they all say that Panasonic is the best plasma while Fujitsu is crap-reality is that it's the other way around. A little respect is not too much to ask.

Wow, I guess I'm not following your logic: "they don't even drive this car" would mean that Lexus is primarily building it for . . . . what, the U.S. ? ... the rest of the world? If Japanese aren't building it for us, wouldn't that mean just the opposite? . . . that they'd WANT to do it right for their customers, whom ever they are? After working in Tokyo for a few months, I found very FEW people drive there ... opting instead for public transportation. So one could say that Japan's autos are primarily made for 'other' markets. Further, I doubt that Toyota/Lexus got to be #1 in world sales last year by taking a, "really don't care what American's think" attitude, really. Not an attitude but facts. Lexus was not sold in Japan up until fairly recently. And yes-they sell the car in US mostly (not design here)-Europe got Lexus also not so long ago-but that doesn't mean that they'll be so cool and responsive to logical requests. I'll give you an example to show how responsive and cooperative Japanese engineers are with Americans. I deal with 2 major companies making professional mid-size PBX phone switching systems-Panasonic( japan )and AVAYA (former Lucent US/UK). Both have their advantages and disadvantages as to how their systems work. But... Let say there is a major feature missing on both of them-so when we request something from Panasonic first their engineers get annoyed that we dare to undermine their design capabilities. Than they will ignore next few reminders, will never answer or give you idea if thing can be done. We'd wait 6-8 months and sometimes feature will appear with limited version anyway sometimes they won't. With AVAYA- first you'll get transfered to "Feature Request" department-usually after 20 minutes of talking to tech support -with clear explanation of what is needed. If requested feature was unusual, very custom and only valuable for your needs-you'll get personal upgrade within a week-if the missing feature was very important for overall capabilities of the system- you'll still get your personal firmware first but it will be also implemented in firmware release for others within few weeks. Now-feeling the difference?? Attitude-yes-but where? I could give you a couple other examples if you wish. Now going back to our Lexus situation-let say one of those features is cruising range display or your average speed. Maybe they will include it in 2009 model-maybe not. Maybe they will fix the electrical system so batteries don't die- maybe not. Honestly I have not driven a car besides Lexus that will keep it's manual interior light ON even after you arm the alarm-and that apparently is the case not only with RX400h but other models as well.