Va Tech Shootings

[Suburbazine]

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/7045282.html

32 people dead as of this post, more deaths likely. Why the hell did the campus go off lockdown before the shooter was found?

My prayers to those involved in the shootings.

[nc211]

This is one of the saddest and unexplainable days in human history. Just so uneccessary to act like this. I hope this produces positive results within the halls of law to finally address the gun issue at hand. We're embarrassing ourselves in the eyes of modern societies by allowing people, any people, to buy a gun with your Listerine. Sure, there is a waiting period, and a background check. That kid did both, and yet this still happened. Why does a college student in a prestigeous university need a gun, much less two of them? As a 33 year old man, having lived through the hormonal changes of my late teens and 20's while trying to figure out my path in life, I think anyone going through that themselves does not need a gun around. But, I think there are more underlying issues at hand that we as a nation need to address, and realize that certain freedoms need to be reexamined under phycological terms. STARTING WITH HOLLYWOOD!! Shame on the standards and ethics board of the FCC!!! Just turn on your TV anymore, and you'll now hear "*BLEEP*, *BLEEP*, god damn, bull*BLEEP*," etc... as standard acceptable language for our kids to hear. Turn on the radio and its "killed that !Removed! like it aint' no thang, give me that snatch !Removed!". And don't give me that crap about it's all on the parent's shoulders to shield them from that kind of stuff, that is pure, lazy, appathetic and chicken-*BLEEP* cop-out crap from those who are too weak and scared to fight those who control our air waves.

I hope the NRA burns for this, I really do. I understand the need and desire to buy a hunting rifle, to hunt with. But what I don't understand is how in the HELL can any civil organization say we also need handguns at Walmart, semi automatic armor pearcing ammunition and extented clips to hold more rounds. AND, to argue that the laws in place to prevent guns falling into the wrong hands are too strict. That kid was from S. Korea for crying out loud! Born and raised in a freakin' war zone, living under the fear of war with N. Korea, 24/7, yet he gets to buy TWO hand guns here? What the HELL is that all about? NRA says we can't preclude a "legal citizen" from the right to bear arms, otherwise it's discriminating. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what enemy are they fighting? Who am I supposed to be looking out for? Should I go to Walmart at lunch, fill out my paperwork for a pair of Glocks, wait 72 hours, and then head down into the rough part of Raleigh and just start killing everything that moves, because that's where most crime happens? Or should I exercise my right to bear arms by paying my taxes so the Police "who are properly trained and phsyco-examined" can have enough equipment to bear arms to protect me, while I'm living within the means of the law and trying my best to contribute something positive to this world during my spin on the globe?

I just don't get it. I really don't, and it makes me SICK and down-right FURIOUS to think this time next month, those guns will still be sitting on the shelf, just waiting for some kid to pull up in his car, jamming out to Chuck D's "Die Motherf*cker Die" to come in and buy one, for no reason other than he thinks it's "cool". Just makes me sick, and ebarrassed for our country. And I don't like to be embarrassed.

Having said this, and before everyone jumps on my tail for it, also understand I'm part of a family who is led by a 30 year retired federal agent. My father in law was one of the most decorated agents within the state bureau of investigations, with many wild stories to tell. My brother in law is in the military, and my father is a retired colonel from the air force. So, I'm not exactly shielded from weaponry.

And, The Right To Bear Arms was written in the context for the assembly of people to form a protective agency, and give them The Right To Bear Arms to enforce their job. NOT for everyone and anyone to buy a hand gun! We pick a Sherriff, and give him a gun.

Haven't had a rant like this in a few years.

My heart breaks for those at VT. Words can't express my sadness and sorrow. Many prayers will be said Sunday morning.

[SKperformance]

All i can think of is bowling for columbine with Mr. Heston saying you would have to pry his gun from his cold dead hands.

There truly is no reason to have a gun ,but atleast keep it on a range if you do.

[RX in NC]

Unfortunately, freak events such as this one truly are not preventable. Someone who is warped enough to decide that he will select his time to die and intends to take as many people with him on his chosen day will always have a window of time to plan the event, acquire the weaponry, and carry out the decision. As long as he keeps his mouth shut and doesn't expose his intentions to anyone, he will unfortunately get away with multiple deaths before law enforcement can get the SWAT team in to take him out.

No, it's not fair. It's tragic for the innocent victims and their families whose lives will never be the same. But no society can regulate insanity. Warped and twisted people do cruel and viscious things.

I agree with you about handguns. They exist only to kill people. No fair and true hunter needs a handgun. We need to find an effective way to eliminate them from the general population.

[denslexusgx470]

The problem is that classes weren't cancelled after they heard about the first shooting in the dorms. Heck, if that were to happen in the college I go to, I would definitely not go to class knowing that there's a gunman on campus. :ph34r:

[Suburbazine]

nc211,

To throw your rant into another light, do you think this would have happened had everyone been allowed to carry guns on campus? It was a no guns zone, where the "amendment right" to carry arms was prohibited. Only the honest folks follow the rules and usually only the honest folks die. If even one other person was packing and could actually hit a target, likelyhood is that the murderer would have been dead before he could kill more kids. If everyone carried guns, the bad guys would be much more reserved about trying mass killings like this. You also can't get the guns off the streets in the US, we're just far too big a country to pull that off. Hell, we even have a HUGE blackmarket for firearms and this Korean guy could have probably bought a nastier weapon there rather than going to a store and having background checks run.

And for people who would point at Britain and say "they dun got rid of the guns" need to keep in mind that GB is an island about the size of, say, Pennsylvania. They can control imports really easy, but when someone does get a gun the honest folks die or the police force (armed with clubs) dies protecting them.

[RFeldes]

This could end up a heavy topic..I, for one go with grandma..A double barrelled 12 gauge, double odd buck..wake me up in my sleep and, you know the ending. Handguns are aggresive weapons and usually cause more harm than good in households or anywhere else for that matter. Handguns in the hands of the freaks we have today are a true menace. I have the right to granny's gun and appreciate the priveledge. I also have the right to protect my property and family. No need for handguns or assault weapons, just my opinion. Shotguns are a bit** to conceal and hard to reload. I'm for outlawing hand guns and assault rifles but having an NG armory loaded with them should the need arise and former military are authorized access them in dire emergencies. So, for now, I am happy with my home protection right to bear arms against any intruder. These are the times.

[nc211]

"Culture" is the word of problem... Fellas, you aren't saying anything wrong. You're saying what is true today. I think we all know what the problem is, and honestly, where it lays. Do I think this horrible incident would of been "contianed" if someone had a gun on them? Maybe, if that person had the chance to act. But from what I've read, the classroom stuff was done so quickly that nobody had a real chance to comprehend and react. Plus, I have to question the existance of the base of American culture if we're all walking around with guns. I mean if I can't trust my neighbor, then why am I even here, and not living next door to Alex in Sweden? And stalking the hell out of Shania Twain?? Haahahaa. Rf, I understand where you're coming from, and I don't disagree one bit, we as men/women have the dna obligation to protect ourselves. And a 3 foot shotgun is one hell of a way to do it. Dens, you're right on point too, and I think we're going to be talking about that for years to come. It's so sad when we live in a culture where progress is envoked by reaction, instead of proaction, but I think that impeads on that part about trusting my neighbor.

All of you guys know me, and you know my feelings on today's world. I've made some strong comments on this website over the years about things that probably have no right to be posted here. And I thank the moderators for tolorating me. I'm going to say something now that I honestly feel, and might probably shock some of you that know me....

BUSH!!!

I learned today that he allowed the semi-automatic ban to expire in 2004. That does it for me, I'm done backing this guy. Congrats Mr. President, you're the only idot in the history of this country to go from historical approval ratings, to historical disapproval ratings. I've stated many times my support for the war, and I still back it, although weary these days. But I will NEVER follow anyone who thinks guns are good for civilians, especially semiautomatic guns. How in the hell can a leader think legalizing weapons for their followers is good? I'm sorry, but Bush is no leader, he's a follower, a follower of the dollar. He served his purpose after 9/11, and I think was the right man for job, in consideration of the choices. But, in my eyes, allowing a protective law like that to expire, makes him an enemy of the country. In my mind, there is no difference between someone who intentionally points you in the wrong direction, and someone who doesn't point out your mistake while on that path in the worng direction. No difference. I think our principals have been prostituted for war rights. I think our gas prices are so high due to an agreement that gave us fly-over rights to invade Iraq. He says "history will tell this tale". I think it will too, and it won't be as kind as he thinks. I mean come on! How can he not be held responsible for the fact that the killer "honestly & legally" purchased these tools of death in our country? McCain, you lost my vote too! Why are our soldiers fighting in the streets of Bahgdad to get rid of the guns, when we've got millions sitting in pawnshops in our country?

Having a shotgun under the bed is one thing, and I have NO problem with that. If you've got the guts to break into someone's home, then you've got the guts to get a face blast of death. But a glock in your backpack is another.

Anyway, back to topic. I no longer support Bush. I'm done. Why are we fighting in Iraq, only to have semiautomatics sitting over here for anyone to buy? Why fear some terrorist, when all it takes is a pina'coolata slurpie, a blockbuster card and a warped mindset from hollywood and video games to buy a semiautomatic hand-cannon and start shooting people?

[Rx330driver]

i think we all need to take a deep breath. lol and CALM DOWN DAMNIT ;)...i said CALM DOWN *violently shakes you from the shoulders*...yes you!

this is definately a heavy topic. I was also on NC's boat; it felt like i was the only republican in California, lol. But yeah, i no longer support the war in Iraq, i turned in my id card last week, cause its getting a bit out of control.

we really cant blame the president for things he did not see coming. IMHO, i blame it entirely on the guy who did it, and no one else. Even if he was going to kill himself, he didnt need to take innocent people with him. its a real shame. i dont know how somebody in their right minds (well in this case he didnt have one) could do something like that. I remember watching the Columbine movie in high school, and i think the news said this is the worst college shooting yet in history. There is definately something in this world that seems to be going downhill :(

anyways, we all just need to chillax, cause those prescription costs for blood pressure pills are costly. :)

[denslexusgx470]

i think we all need to take a deep breath. lol and CALM DOWN DAMNIT ;)...i said CALM DOWN *violently shakes you from the shoulders*...yes you!

this is definately a heavy topic. I was also on NC's boat; it felt like i was the only republican in California, lol. But yeah, i no longer support the war in Iraq, i turned in my id card last week, cause its getting a bit out of control.

we really cant blame the president for things he did not see coming. IMHO, i blame it entirely on the guy who did it, and no one else. Even if he was going to kill himself, he didnt need to take innocent people with him. its a real shame. i dont know how somebody in their right minds (well in this case he didnt have one) could do something like that. I remember watching the Columbine movie in high school, and i think the news said this is the worst college shooting yet in history. There is definately something in this world that seems to be going downhill :(

anyways, we all just need to chillax, cause those prescription costs for blood pressure pills are costly. :)

You can't really blame people for what they feel. This tragedy is very fresh, just like when 9/11 happened. No one just put it behind them after a day or two, but up to now we still have it in our minds, and still wonder "Why"? :cries::cries::cries:

[93LSOwner]

Rude awakening of what it feels like to have innocent fellow country men and women die for they have done nothing wrong.

It doesn’t feel good to be in shoes of an Iraqi does it…………???

The problem is that classes weren't cancelled after they heard about the first shooting in the dorms.

Universities are not as lenient about missed exams/work as High Schools.

[RX in NC]

NC211,

Glad to know that you finally came to your senses regarding Bush. I've been a registered Republican since I became old enough to vote (back in the Stone Ages - 1972) and while never voting for him, I've been ashamed of his stupidity, ignorance, and monarchy tendencies since even before 9/11. He is absolutely the worst president we've endured in the past 100 years, and if the Iraq quagmire continues on its current death spiral, he will go down in history as the worst president in the entire span of U.S. history.

The only positive outcome I can think of about his future is that when it comes time to build his presidential library, it shouldn't cost us taxpayers more than about 25 bucks. All the George W. Bush Presidential Library will need is five or six coloring books and a cardboard box to keep them in....

[Suburbazine]

Semiautomatic weapons ban? Wasnt' that the fully automatic weapons ban? I've been using semiauto handguns for years, were they illegal back then? I don't really remember the bounds of the gun law back then. :/

[branshew]

As a Tech graduate myself, I can say that it is an immense tragedy. After the useless deaths, what saddens me the most is that VT will now be remembered for that one reason alone and not for all of the positive things that the school has accomplished over the years. It will be the Kent State of the 21st century and that is a stigma that Tech can do without.

It would have been nearly impossible to shut down the tech campus after the first shooting in the morning. Everyone that has ever been there knows how large the campus is. Even if they did shut it down and cancelled classes, that would have left the shooter in his dorm with the same number of potential victims in close proximity. Instead of a class room massacre it would have been a dormroom massacre.

I am all in favor of handgun control. Handguns were made for one reason and one reason alone - to kill someone. As a hunter, I know firsthand that you can't really hunt with one. I own several shotguns and a nice rifle and I don't want to ban all guns. While Subarbazine does raise an interesting point, if we were to follow that logic, we may as well return to the wild west. What if I had been there with a gun and shot the killer and then someone else with a gun saw me kill him and assumed that I was the killer and shot me? Where does it end? Fighting violence with more violence isn't the answer.

Gun control isn't the only factot though. The state of VA should have never allowed this guy to buy a gun given his mental history so that was a huge mistake there. His history should have been documented and someone should have followed up to make sure he was getting counseling. The University should have taken his writings more seriously and they should have kicked him out if he wasn't getting the tretment he was required to seek regardless of his privacy.

Everyone complains about their "rights" in this country. I'm sorry, but your right to privacy and your right to own a gun do not supercede someone else's right to live!

You can lay blame everywhere, but nothing will ultimately happen. Our media is so nearsighted they are already looking for the next violence glorifying cover story and they lack the competence or will to follow up on this and continue to ask the tough questions that will see to it that something does get done.

The Va. Tech motto is "Ut Prosim" (That I May Serve). I hope that all tech graduates will band together and serve the memory of these students and their great university and make these issues the forefront.

[W201 sweden]

The sad news certainly spread across the globe. I was on a business trip to Italy when it happened, and the shooter's "declaration" was broadcasted frequently for a couple of days. Stupidly enough, the Italian news are all voice-over, so I did not hear or understand what the shooter said.

It's so said that all those young people died for nothing.

And nc211, I think you (and other forum members) would be most welcome to Sweden - let me check if there are any houses available in my area... :)

The gun laws are pretty strict in Sweden, and to get a permit for a gun you basically need to be a member of the "National Guard", a member of a shooting club

or a hunter (with certificate).

There are not many reports of guns being used in crimes at all. Sometimes they are used in some "gang" fight situation, but people in general are not getting

robbed in the streets.

/Alexander from Sweden - a speck on the map