Mercedes Attacks Consumer Report's Ratings

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Click on THIS to read the story.

Do you support MB or CR?

Personally - I've always been frustrated by how CR's ratings lack specific information. What exactly does 'unreliable' mean to CR?! To ME - an unreliable car is one that will - quite possibly - force me off to the side of the road in wait of a triple-a truck for help. It is not a car that needs to be taken back to the dealership several times to have the front end re-aligned.

I think CR should be taken to task. They should have to explain themselves. Especially given the obvious influence they have.

What do YOU think?!

Craig!! :)

[1990LS400]

Gosh, Craig. Are you actually reading the Consumer Reports articles and year book ratings about Mercedes vehicles? There has been lots of very detailed information about the issues with Mercedes vehicles over many years. We've subscribed to Consumer Reports for around 30 years and participate in its annual survey where we report problems we have had with autos, appliances, etc. Most of what you see in Consumer Reports ratings comes directly from people like us who are members of Consumers Union and who participate in the surveys.

We owned Mercedes cars for a total of 16 years before we switched to Toyota/Lexus products. My last Mercedes went through three engines (the original and two "caged" factory rebuilds) in the first 150,000 miles. There are five S-class Mercedes cars in households in my culdesac. My best friend has a Mercedes E320, purchased new, which has left him stranded on several occasions with fuel and electrical system problems. Based on my experiences with Mercedes and those of my friends and neighbors, I would suspect that Consumer Reports is very accurate in its reporting of Mercedes quality.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi 1990LS400!! :)

I hope you're OK.

I have to assume [Or should I really say... 'I HOPE I can assume...'] that your experience with Mercedes AND those of your friends and neighbours - are unique and not typical. I once owned both a 1998 SLK230 and a 1998 ML320 and they were fine. Other than the SLK needing its roof realigned - no problems at all. I understand - however - that Mercedes has fallen - quite dramatically - reliability wise - but to become THE LEAST reliable vehicles on the road?

According to Consumer Reports 'Predicted Reliability' charts [i'm sure you've seen them!!] the Mercedes SLK [V6], SL, CLK, C-Class [V6], E-Class [V6 and V8], CLS, S-Class, R-Class, M-Class [V6 and V8] are ALL battling for position as THE MOST UNRELIABLE vehicle in the entire Consumer Reports survey. Given that '0' is 'Average Reliability' - the SL is 120% less reliable than the average vehicle sold in the U.S. The E-Class [V8] is 159% less reliable. The CLS is 163% less reliable. The S-Class is 176% less reliable. And the M-Class [V8] is a whopping 202% less reliable then the AVERAGE vehicle. [Which makes the M-Class THE most unreliable vehicle one can buy] Keep in mind that this is not a comparison to the MOST reliable vehicle - but just the average one. THAT IS SCARY!! The only vehicles rated at 100% or more [on the 'less reliable side'] are the Pontiac Solstice [185%], the Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 [102%], Cadillac STS V8 [189%], Volkswagen Touareg [119%], Cadillac SRX V8 [152%], Lincoln Navigator [114%], Infiniti QX56 [135%], Nissan Armada [137%], Land Rover LR3 V8 [155%] and the Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander and the Saturn Relay at 152%. And that's IT. Every other vehicle is LESS than 100% more unreliable than the average vehicle. Has Mercedes REALLY sank THAT low?!

That all said...

There is something that has always puzzled me when it comes to Consumer Reports. I own - as you probably know - a 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8. My particular model wasn't rated for reliability - but the 300C was. Consumer Reports is quite clear about the 'fact' that the 300C [That's the one with the HEMI] is 'Much Worse than Average' when it comes to its predicted reliability. [No where near as bad as ANY Mercedes - but very poor none-the-less] Yet if you take a look at the little chart with the red and black dots - the 300 is a sea of red dots. TRUE - the 300 model that was rated is the V6 version. But all you have to do is flip over to the Dodge Charger [with the HEMI - just like the one found in the 300C] and you will see more red dots. I'm confused. How can a car have so many red dots and be consider 'worse than' or even 'much worse than'?!

Craig!! :)

[nc211]

I have a feeling once Blake is finished chowing down on some turkey and waxing his car "to make me look bad ;) " he will chime in on this one! I agree Craig, the reports are confusing as can be. The written word says "junk" but the chart says "gem". I do think CR is a bit bias on thier reports. But I don't think they're too far off on the MB line up. But, I can't help to think that, as Jim said, most of the data is collected from folks like us, and when you pay that much money for a MB, you would think it would not leave you stranded on the side of the road, because you turned on the a/c which shorted out the fuse box, which killed the engine. I just wonder how much impact the price v. problems weighs on the report itself for MB. I know if I paid $25k for a car, and it broke down, I would be ticked off, but probably not as upset as if I had paid $80k for a car, and it broke down too. Not to mention, it probably costs 3 times as much to fix it.

True story: My boss has a 02' E320, with about 45k miles. His battery died on him a couple weeks ago, so we had it jumped, and then he took it to his local MB specialist here in Chapel Hill. I followed him to the shop, so I could give him a ride back. I kid you not...every car in the parking lot waiting to give rides back to the other MB owners there, were all Japonesee cars. All toyotas, nissans and a Subaru. All sitting in the parking lot, engines running, and waiting for their passengers to come out.

[bartkat]

CU ratings are based on actual survey reports from owners of the cars being rated. The frequency of repair records are subdivided into various categories. The data base is probably the largest "private" one available. I believe they are as correct and unbiased as you will find. Of course, not every car in a group has every problem, and some cars may be totally trouble free, but the averages for a given car make and model are a real indication of the likelyhood of problems. If you go back and look at certain car models that show problems, you'll also probably find that TSB's were issued at some point. TSB would be an indication that the data are correct.

JD Powers is also mentioned. They survey individual owners for initial ownership experience, pretty much the car as delivered and problems within the first 90 days, I think. I don't think there's any bias in their data either.

In the end, you get what you get, but the ratings can tell you the odds as to whether your car will be a problem or not.

[nc211]

That's what I'm curious about...the owners survey reports that are sent back in, and if someone who paid the $80k and complained about a bad spark plug v. someone who paid $25k and didn't complain about the bad spark plug, but rather figured the spark plug was just part of car ownership in general, or due to a tank of bad gas. I'm not quite saying it correctly here, can't quite get my fingers to follow my train of thought, but do you follow my general idea?

I do agree however that the ratings surely can give you some insight on what your ownership experience could most likely be like. It's just like Pioneer.... Buy Pioneer, because a million rednecks can't be wrong. After years of Sony, JVC, etc.... I followed that advice and went with Pioneer... Gotta love those rednecks!

[blake918]

I have a feeling once Blake is finished chowing down on some turkey and waxing his car "to make me look bad ;) " he will chime in on this one!

LOL I didn't have any time to detail the car over the holidays; I fixed the egr pipe instead--I feel like I've died and gone to heaven! :D I just have a really hard time taking them seriously when most of my experiences with the products they test have been the exact opposite. CR has a stellar reputation, but I just don't see it it's all about. I don't know why they bother putting out the annual auto issue because their isn't much that changes from year to year. I can sum it up for you, buy a Toyota or Honda (they recommend all of them except for one or two.), American, European, and other Japanese cars are mostly poor to average or if you get lucky, above average. The Ford Focus and VW Passat are two fine cars, but we can't recommend them even though they killed the competition in our tests. Their ya go, that's their auto issue!

I don't blame Mercedes for attacking them. I know 6 or 7 people who drive or drove Mercedes, and Jim is the only one that I know of to have serious problems. 1.3M responses to the survey? I'd love to know how many of them were from Mercedes owners; I'd bet very, very few. I can't imagine someone reading CR right before they drop $110,000 on a S550--it's paradoxical. It always fascinates me that JD and CR rate Cadillacs on opposite ends of the spectrum. JD says they are pretty good, CR does not. I tend to trust JD more than CR, but I think the ultimate source for common problems and what to expect over the years of owning the car is an owners forum like this one!

[SW03ES]

I don't blame Mercedes for attacking them. I know 6 or 7 people who drive or drove Mercedes, and Jim is the only one that I know of to have serious problems...

...but I think the ultimate source for common problems and what to expect over the years of owning the car is an owners forum like this one!

These two statements are in conflict. Spend some time on some Benz boards, Benzes absolutely do have some significant reliability problems.

[blake918]

These two statements are in conflict. Spend some time on some Benz boards, Benzes absolutely do have some significant reliability problems.

How so? Of course the Benz board is full of complaints....that's what the whole point of an automotive forum is. People don't make daily posts about their cars starting up on the first try. I never said that they were perfect, but I also don't think that they deserve the bad press that they get either.

[Rx330driver]

in merc's defense they have been trying very hard to get their standards back up again. Just ask anybody who has bought a 2006 and above merc.

[denslexusgx470]

i've asked my friend who's parents have an 03 ML55 AMG, and a 06 E350, and he says, they absolutely have NO problems. Doubt that, cuz i remember my friend once in awhile tells me that his dad takes his ML into the shop, because of some things breaking, mostly electrical.

[bartkat]

I'm getting really prejudiced from hanging around on Lexus boards. Today I was in Huntsville for a Dr. appointment so while I was in town I went over to the west side to see the new LS460. On the way over I kept see sawing in traffic with this new looking BMW 5 series. When I first saw it I had to wonder if he was taking it to the dealer for repairs. Seriously, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the car.

[SW03ES]

How so? Of course the Benz board is full of complaints....that's what the whole point of an automotive forum is. People don't make daily posts about their cars starting up on the first try. I never said that they were perfect, but I also don't think that they deserve the bad press that they get either.

If you compare them to Lexus forums, or Infiniti forums, or even BMW forums you'll see they discuss far more and far more serious reliability problems on the MB forums.

[Lexusfreak]

I took all German car companies off my list when shopping for a vehicle.......CR stuff I've known for years, but it was good friends & co-workers that told me their stories.

[Rx330driver]

yeah...i think ive mentioned that i was always a long time fan of mercs

but after owning 3 lexus cars, i find myself defending lexus cars over mercs...ive been brainwashed too!

though i would still consider the cars, cause sometimes, it feels good to see the 3 pointed star on the hood