lexlover1 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Grand, Thanks for the great thread. Your information, pictures and comments on your experience will be beneficial to all of us. I do hope you will put together a tutorial on this since this is something many of us will face in the future. My compliments on a job well done Denny Your welcome. Wish i took some pics along the way, but I did not, too much frustration at times to take out the camera and snap pics. But I'll be here to answer any questions i can. Grand, Thanks for the great thread. Your information, pictures and comments on your experience will be beneficial to all of us. I do hope you will put together a tutorial on this since this is something many of us will face in the future. My compliments on a job well done Denny Your welcome. Wish i took some pics along the way, but I did not, too much frustration at times to take out the camera and snap pics. But I'll be here to answer any questions i can. Grand LS 4, Just wanted to thank you for your post. I just finished changing the starter on my '98 LS 400. If it hadn't been for your post I couldn't even have found the starter. A few tips for the next guy. 1. Have a 14mm flarenut wrench, the fuel line nut is soft and will round off with an open end. 2. Consider taking the top and fuel rails off the manifold. I didn't and it is difficult to horse the manifold off and on with all the stuff in the way. I am a big guy and managed with some difficulty. If you are smaller, have a helper or take it apart. The gasket sets come with the required gasket. 3. Have universal joints for your socket sets, and a good magnet pickup tool. You'll need them especially if you don't take the manifold apart. 4. Don't worry too much about all the electrical and vacuum connections you have to disconnect. All the electrical connectors are different so it only goes together one way. The vacuum lines fall right back into place if you only disconnect one end. Make sure they are disconnected though. I broke one nipple off and had to repair with a brass fitting. My car was out of service for about two weeks. Most of that time was researching and ordering parts and waiting for them to come. I think if you are young and have a strong back you could change the starter in eight hours with all parts available. Regards, Ed PS: I bought the starter from Advance Auto Parts web site, $149.95 plus core. Came in About 4 days and I returned the core at my local Advance for instant credit with no shipping required. Grand LS 4, Just wanted to thank you for your post. I just finished changing the starter on my '98 LS 400. If it hadn't been for your post I couldn't even have found the starter. A few tips for the next guy. 1. Have a 14mm flarenut wrench, the fuel line nut is soft and will round off with an open end. 2. Consider taking the top and fuel rails off the manifold. I didn't and it is difficult to horse the manifold off and on with all the stuff in the way. I am a big guy and managed with some difficulty. If you are smaller, have a helper or take it apart. The gasket sets come with the required gasket. 3. Have universal joints for your socket sets, and a good magnet pickup tool. You'll need them especially if you don't take the manifold apart. 4. Don't worry too much about all the electrical and vacuum connections you have to disconnect. All the electrical connectors are different so it only goes together one way. The vacuum lines fall right back into place if you only disconnect one end. Make sure they are disconnected though. I broke one nipple off and had to repair with a brass fitting. My car was out of service for about two weeks. Most of that time was researching and ordering parts and waiting for them to come. I think if you are young and have a strong back you could change the starter in eight hours with all parts available. Regards, Ed PS: I bought the starter from Advance Auto Parts web site, $149.95 plus core. Came in About 4 days and I returned the core at my local Advance for instant credit with no shipping required. Hi Ed I am not young but have a strong back and have to do the dirty deed. Just wondered after you removed the intake and everything hooked to it, how long before the starter was removed. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEd Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 "Hi Ed I am not young but have a strong back and have to do the dirty deed. Just wondered after you removed the intake and everything hooked to it, how long before the starter was removed. Thanks in advance." Lexlover, once the manifold is off and the starter is exposed it only takes maybe an hour to get the starter off. The reason it takes that long is the bolts come in from the rear and there is very little clearance between the bolt and the firewall. I used a box end wrench to remove the bolts but because of the clearance issues I could only get about 1/12 of a turn before having to remove and reset the wrench. I think that one of the newer ratcheting boxends that are available now might fit and make the job go faster. My ratcheting boxends are the old style and just too bulky to get into the space. It might be worth investing in a 14mm thin ratcheting boxend. Regards, Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAND_LS 4 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Your most welcome! Glad I was of some help. Its a tough job, but you feel very proud in the end. Really feels like a great accomplishment, especially if you got a dealer repair estimate prior. As Ed mentioned, there are two bolts that hold the starter from the rear (they face the back of the car) take a while to turn... but i remember I had pretty good tools that really helped me through. I didn't take off the fuel rails, but the fuel line took me 3 days to remove... I had almost given up. I also disconnected it, and left it there... and the next day, after the garage heated up (pressure changed)... so fuel was pouring out, smell was so strong, it seeped into the house, and into the inlet vent for the AC, and woke me up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexlover1 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 "Hi Ed I am not young but have a strong back and have to do the dirty deed. Just wondered after you removed the intake and everything hooked to it, how long before the starter was removed. Thanks in advance." Lexlover, once the manifold is off and the starter is exposed it only takes maybe an hour to get the starter off. The reason it takes that long is the bolts come in from the rear and there is very little clearance between the bolt and the firewall. I used a box end wrench to remove the bolts but because of the clearance issues I could only get about 1/12 of a turn before having to remove and reset the wrench. I think that one of the newer ratcheting boxends that are available now might fit and make the job go faster. My ratcheting boxends are the old style and just too bulky to get into the space. It might be worth investing in a 14mm thin ratcheting boxend. Regards, Ed Thanks Ed I have read on a few posts that removing the intake was the easy part. Getting the starter bolts and the starter out of position is the real bugger. I have seen lots of pictures and know exactly how it is removed, hopefully I have lots of tools. Just wondered if you could make a list of parts needed for the task. Not sure if you can see them or not but the starter bolts seem almost impossible to see with the intake on the engine. I mean I know where to look but I think it would be to great advantage to be tall to see and reach in there. Mine has been in storage for the cold months but coming out real soon. Was yours clicking or did it just stop working all at once? Mine has been a clicker for a while. Guessing you never got into the tearing apart of your old starter since you sent back the core, wondered how the contacts were inside. Thanks for the info much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vyhanh Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Hi, Been following this thread. Could anybody tell me about this issue that I have: When I turn the ignition key to the start engine position, there is a 'click...click...click..click' in the engine bay (I think near the TPS or the Trac Position cover) for a few seconds (2-4 secs). What may cause the clicking??? Could it be the starter showing its problem? Thanks VH 91 LS (170K miles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastEd Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Lexlover, I doubt you can see the starter bolts with the intake in place even using a mirror. Getting the starter off isn't particularly hard just slow. The bolts can be reached with a conventional boxend wrench once the intake is removed. You just can't get much of a swing on the wrench. In my case the solenoid gave a hearty single click when the key was turned to start but the engine didn't even try to turn over. I checked with a meter and I had plenty of battery voltage and it didn't drop much when the solenoid clicked. This seemed to fit with starter brush failure as described in this forum. I might add that the problem occurred suddenly with no warning, one morning it just wouldn't turn over. It had started great the evening before. I didn't tear down the old starter so I can't comment on how hard it is to change the brushes. As hard as it is to get to I felt it was better to just put in a rebuilt starter and forget it. I bought an intake gasket set which includes the manifold to head gaskets and the gasket between the manifold upper and lower halves, and a water outlet gasket that I couldn't figure out why I would need. I also bought two gaskets for the water connector that goes between the heads at the rear. And of course the starter. The part numbers are in an earlier post in this thread. Regards, Ed Just to repeat info that has been in other posts in this thread and others on starter problems, if you get multiple clicking when you turn the key to start you likely have a low battery or corroded connections. If you get a single solid click but no engine movement then it is the starter. Good Luck, Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vyhanh Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Hi, May I repeat that I just turn the key to the starting position ie. as if you only want to see the various indicators on the dashboard but NOT turning the engine over. Whenever the key is at this position but not yet turning the engine , I hear the clicks. Lexlover, I doubt you can see the starter bolts with the intake in place even using a mirror. Getting the starter off isn't particularly hard just slow. The bolts can be reached with a conventional boxend wrench once the intake is removed. You just can't get much of a swing on the wrench. In my case the solenoid gave a hearty single click when the key was turned to start but the engine didn't even try to turn over. I checked with a meter and I had plenty of battery voltage and it didn't drop much when the solenoid clicked. This seemed to fit with starter brush failure as described in this forum. I might add that the problem occurred suddenly with no warning, one morning it just wouldn't turn over. It had started great the evening before. I didn't tear down the old starter so I can't comment on how hard it is to change the brushes. As hard as it is to get to I felt it was better to just put in a rebuilt starter and forget it. I bought an intake gasket set which includes the manifold to head gaskets and the gasket between the manifold upper and lower halves, and a water outlet gasket that I couldn't figure out why I would need. I also bought two gaskets for the water connector that goes between the heads at the rear. And of course the starter. The part numbers are in an earlier post in this thread. Regards, Ed Just to repeat info that has been in other posts in this thread and others on starter problems, if you get multiple clicking when you turn the key to start you likely have a low battery or corroded connections. If you get a single solid click but no engine movement then it is the starter. Good Luck, Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAND_LS 4 Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 I bought an intake gasket set which includes the manifold to head gaskets and the gasket between the manifold upper and lower halves, and a water outlet gasket that I couldn't figure out why I would need. I also bought two gaskets for the water connector that goes between the heads at the rear. And of course the starter. The part numbers are in an earlier post in this thread. I mentioned in my earlier post that if you dont plan on taking the upper intake apart, then you dont need to purchase the gasket. However, for the gasket thats between the block, and lower mainfold... you do need one. At that age, they deteriorate, and you dont want to have any leaks. And since they are cheap, its more of preventive measure then anything, depending on how old your car/mileage. Sorry If i wasnt clear, didnt mean to make you buy parts you didnt need. (I did the same thign myself because i didnt know, and I still have those gaskets sitting around somewhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etex Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 GRAND: Great job!! Thanks for taking the time to create this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmtnman Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Very nice Grand LS!! I am impressed. So, the first question is why I have come here and why your topic has been the reasoning for my first post... I work on friends' cars all the time, and I have recently come upon a starter replacement project on a 1997 LS 400. This will be my first time working on an LS and it seems relatively straight forward and simple only due to the recognizable features from your pics. The main question I was walking into was the ORIGINAL question you asked... What gaskets will I need and other equipment will be needed. With exception to the 14 mm flare nut wrench, I am very confident my garage holds all equipment needed. If I have read the whole topic correctly, it looks as if the only gaskets needed will be for the rear coolant by-pass manifold (2) and the intake manifold lower gaskets (2). I do have a few questions right off: 1. Do I need to drain the coolant in order to work on this project? It looks as if, if I need to, i only need to drop out a little to decrease the heighth below that of the bypass manifold. 2. Via diagram received from a pdf doc. d-loaded from this site, I see a front coolant by-pass manifold... will this need to come off as well? If so, 2 more gaskets? 3. I see the part numbers, and hence, I know the gaskets needed. The starter has already been bought... and, this is not my money being spent on parts, but it is a friend I would like to save a bit of money for. Thus, my question is where would be the best place to get a hold of these gaskets at an affordable price? I plan on beginning this project on Sunday, and if plans go correctly, finishing on Sunday. But, I am giving myself Monday as well. I mention my start dates and times so i can get these gaskets in ASAP before Sunday. Stealership.. errrr, dealership costs I assume will be extreme and high. Let me reiterate, it is not MY money, but I would like to save some $$$ for my friend. If the dealership and online costs are not that far off, then the local dealer may be a good answer seeing my time frame. 4. To gain the best knowledge and experience of what I am fixing to encounter, I would love to talk via a phone call. I am off on Tuesday, October 23rd, and would LOVE to borrow a few minutes in the interest of getting an LS back up on the road in great condition. Although I am not familiar with this paricular forum too much, I am including my ph. # temporarily since I cannot seem to message you privately... call if you can, otherwise, I will be on my own knowledge with this LS... 205.422.5468 Thanks for the great posting, pics and all the answered questions GRAND! Michael H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmtnman Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Umm... anybody?? no thoughts, recommendations, help? hmmm.... First time poster to this forum.. anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardona6569 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Very good Post. CPR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexozz Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I have a 95 LS, my starter went out a few days ago. I did everything that GrandLS did except get the starter out. The last piece I have to remove is the rear coolant bridge, but the EGR valve is connected underneath and also on the exhaust. How in the world will I get this out. Anyone with any suggestions please....:cries: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davels4001998 Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Grand, Thanks! Great post. I showed your posts and pics to my mechanic and he decided to bail so I now have an appointment at the dealer. They warrant the starter for a year (including labor) and with all the work that you described, I wouldn't want to have to pay labor again to replace a bad reman. I will demand that the reman starter is a Denso. I also found brand new starters on line from a company called NSA. Has anyone had any experience with this manufacturer of NEW oem spec starters? Hello Grand ls read all of your posts about the starter job with great interest. I have a 95 that is starting to be a clicker. I saw in one of the posts that there was a recall on the 95 which mine is. Curious as to how many times yours clicked before the final click or did you replace the starter after the first click? I am guessing the gaskets needed would be the same for the 95 model, although I did notice a couple of small things different under the hood in some of the pics you posted. Mine has 130k. Doesn't look like much fun, especially if something is broken during disassembly. Plus I know it is going to be hard to reach in there cause I am quite short. Trying to find some info on a recall, gee you think they would install too. Any answers would be greatly apperciated, my babay is hurting. Thanks. Mine went out at once, no introductions. One day i was goign to see a friend, and tried to start the car, NO dice. You seem to need new contacts, but I had a bigger problem, and needed replacement of the entire starter. I think the 95 had a few differences. Not sure what they are, since i havent looked under the hood of one. Hi Grand_LS 4, I wished you had done this earlier, otherwise I would have tried this myself. I chickened out and had it done. $1700. cdn. Good job on your car! I have a 1991 LS400 and after 15 years my starter. started acting up with about 430,000 kms(267000 miles), not bad. Seems like your starter should have lasted longer, is the quality going down on the newer cars? Daffy Thanks! It was a tough job, but an interesting learning experiance. We'll, it really depends on usage, and how frequently you start you car. I dont think there is any noticeable quality decline, just a matter of different use, and variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRAND_LS 4 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Sorry I have not been updating this thread, i have not been receiving any notifications which have been enabled now. While i've done this over 4 years ago, and long sold the car i will try my best to answer any questions you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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