LEXIRX330 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 My sister went out and bought a 2006 Envoy Denali 4WD :chairshot: , man I told her she should have looked at the new RX 350 or even the 400H. She traded in her c230 kompressor MB in, I do have to say that was a pretty cool car for a MB. Just had a baby and that car she said was just to small. She drove the Envoy up so I could take a look at it and keep in mind the Denali is GMC's top of the line. All I can say is I love my Lexus :D . Day and night when you compare the quality and feel of the two. I think the Denali looks OK, but some of the stuff just looks cheap (to me). The tail pipe, the plastic, leather, dash...I will stop now! I am trying not to bash GM, I test drove a Yukon...but I was left with the same impression that it lacked a quality feel. When spending that kind of money on vehicle I do not want to feel that way. I am sure there are people that have GM's that love them this is just my opinion but I think after the NEW wears off she will be disappointed...what do you guys think??? I will try to keep it in...but sooner or latter I will have to be a big brother and say I told you so!!! :D B) TO each his own or in this case her own...just glad I have my Lexus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiasfinest Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 My sister went out and bought a 2006 Envoy Denali 4WD :chairshot: , man I told her she should have looked at the new RX 350 or even the 400H. She traded in her c230 kompressor MB in, I do have to say that was a pretty cool car for a MB. Just had a baby and that car she said was just to small. She drove the Envoy up so I could take a look at it and keep in mind the Denali is GMC's top of the line. All I can say is I love my Lexus :D . Day and night when you compare the quality and feel of the two. I think the Denali looks OK, but some of the stuff just looks cheap (to me). The tail pipe, the plastic, leather, dash...I will stop now! I am trying not to bash GM, I test drove a Yukon...but I was left with the same impression that it lacked a quality feel. When spending that kind of money on vehicle I do not want to feel that way. I am sure there are people that have GM's that love them this is just my opinion but I think after the NEW wears off she will be disappointed...what do you guys think??? I will try to keep it in...but sooner or latter I will have to be a big brother and say I told you so!!! :D B) TO each his own or in this case her own...just glad I have my Lexus... i hate GM cars because if you buy a 20k car and 50k cadillac, the interior will be the same. i like the looks of the cadillac but you sit inside and then you look up at the owner and say "i thought you said this was a cadillac, not a saturn" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEXIRX330 Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 My sister went out and bought a 2006 Envoy Denali 4WD :chairshot: , man I told her she should have looked at the new RX 350 or even the 400H. She traded in her c230 kompressor MB in, I do have to say that was a pretty cool car for a MB. Just had a baby and that car she said was just to small. She drove the Envoy up so I could take a look at it and keep in mind the Denali is GMC's top of the line. All I can say is I love my Lexus :D . Day and night when you compare the quality and feel of the two. I think the Denali looks OK, but some of the stuff just looks cheap (to me). The tail pipe, the plastic, leather, dash...I will stop now! I am trying not to bash GM, I test drove a Yukon...but I was left with the same impression that it lacked a quality feel. When spending that kind of money on vehicle I do not want to feel that way. I am sure there are people that have GM's that love them this is just my opinion but I think after the NEW wears off she will be disappointed...what do you guys think??? I will try to keep it in...but sooner or latter I will have to be a big brother and say I told you so!!! :D B) TO each his own or in this case her own...just glad I have my Lexus... i hate GM cars because if you buy a 20k car and 50k cadillac, the interior will be the same. i like the looks of the cadillac but you sit inside and then you look up at the owner and say "i thought you said this was a cadillac, not a saturn" That is what I am talking about! Mother in law has a caddy! I liked my Camry better than the inside of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 My dad had a 2002 envoy....40k miles later, two suspension bushings needed to be replaced, 7 recalls, starter failed, brakes failed and half of the electronic "toys" malfunctioned at some point or another. He traded it in on a Toyota Solara convertible about 8 months ago.....AND STILL GETS RECALL NOTICES FROM GM on the car!! This is a 65 year old man, who lived in the suburbs of Kansas City. The Envoy never towed anything, never even when on a dusty trail...... I give it 12 months before your little sister kicks you in the butt for not making her buy a Lexus. It'll be your fault...trust me big bro'...it'll be your fault somehow....hahahaa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiasfinest Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 lol im just glad i not the only one who feels that way. but you got to hand it to them, thet do have some attractive cars, from a distance that is. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Eh, my guess is she'll get pretty good service out of it, certainly won't have the longevity of a Lexus though. For people who trade out of cars every 3-5 years pretty much anything will be reasonably reliable. As for Cadillac interiors, they've gotten MUCH better in the past couple years but still have a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 i respecfully disagree with you swo...36 months is a long time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Eh, it'll be under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc211 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Well, that's true...but I'd get rid of it after the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty expired, or buy an extension period. To me, and I have no real logical method to support my theory other than personal experience, but to me it just seems like the problems all start to show up just past that 3/36 warranty....go figure that one, and I have no idea why "although did read something many moons ago about the designers using plastic bearings and such, to fail around 40k miles". Anywho, first 20k miles of my dad's Envoy were fine, but after that, it just started to come apart. Although with all the heckling I do on GM cars and trucks, even still to this day, my all-time favorite SUV is a 1999 Chevy Tahoe, and one day I will have one, and drop a crate engine in it...no lifts kits, no nothing outside of oem looks, but probably a new 5.7 engine. To me, that's just one awesome truck! To me, it all seemed to change when they started adding on plastic parts to the body and stuff like that....lost some of it's "tough truck" appeal for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 but to me it just seems like the problems all start to show up just past that 3/36 warranty Exactly! Our Suburban was about 99% trouble free during the first 40k miles--the dealer replaced one squeaky drive belt, and that's it! But 40k-115k, that was rough since some mechanical parts started failing: alternator, water pumps, and serious transmission issues (we are on number 3 right now. It's starting to shift like crap again which means it's about to break for a 4th time.). We went through a few water pumps and alternators in a short time, but after that, she's been well behaved other than the tranny issues. I looked at a Buick Lucerne the other day. I was completely stunned by the material quality since it was pretty darn good! It's a really comfortable car too (excellent seats and dimensions)! It's a shame that the car looks so good from the front and side but has an ugly rear end. I think I could get over the rear if I had one with the Northstar system! lol I know a few people with TrailBlazers who have had very few problems. I think they are supposed to be pretty good trucks (I think I would have gone with the Buick variant since you can get it with the small block with out having to get the extended wheelbase!! B) )....not as good as an Explorer though! GMs are all about luck, so I hope she ended up with a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denslexusgx470 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 American cars, in my opinion is for those who don't plan on using the car for more than 50k miles. I mean, i've had rental cars before, and they're not even 30k miles and there are many problems that i can pin-point. For Lexus though, IMO, will last long, engine wise. For the fancy features (auto this, auto that) those might not last as long as we think it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEXIRX330 Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 Eh, it'll be under warranty. But...that is the exact reason why I would not purchase it warranty or not. The fact that a car has a warranty is nice, but just the hassle having to take the car back and forth for repairs is a pain in the I don't have time to take a car to a dealership 3 or 4 times a year!!! A Kia has what 10 year 100,000 mile warranty how many times do you think you are going back to the dealer with that???? Warranties are better when you do not have to use them at all. Well we shall see!!! :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoods lex Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Many people make the mistake of buying and loving a car just because it is new and still has the new car smell. They don't think about down the road when their cars styling becomes outdated and begins to have mechanical trouble. In my opinion, American vehicles have a problem with that. Engineers design cars that have cheap and less thought out designs, and it becomes much more noticeable over time. It's a shame that the U.S. companies don't design their cars better. They expect Americans to buy American, but offer much less refinement and quality. They do this to their own people. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, but I hate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Well, that's true...but I'd get rid of it after the bumper to bumper portion of the warranty expired, or buy an extension period. Honestly, I would never own a modern car without a warranty. All the electronics and the nav system etc are far too expensive to replace. Lexus may be reliable, but they're not problem free and I'll trade mine when the 100k extended warranty is up. But...that is the exact reason why I would not purchase it warranty or not. The fact that a car has a warranty is nice, but just the hassle having to take the car back and forth for repairs is a pain in the I don't have time to take a car to a dealership 3 or 4 times a year!!! A Kia has what 10 year 100,000 mile warranty how many times do you think you are going back to the dealer with that???? Warranties are better when you do not have to use them at all. You don't take your car to the dealer 3-4 times a year? You don't have the maintenance done? As for Kias, modern Kias are plenty reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEXIRX330 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 But...that is the exact reason why I would not purchase it warranty or not. The fact that a car has a warranty is nice, but just the hassle having to take the car back and forth for repairs is a pain in the I don't have time to take a car to a dealership 3 or 4 times a year!!! A Kia has what 10 year 100,000 mile warranty how many times do you think you are going back to the dealer with that???? Warranties are better when you do not have to use them at all. You don't take your car to the dealer 3-4 times a year? You don't have the maintenance done? As for Kias, modern Kias are plenty reliable. Yes, I do have my car taken to the dealer for service...but that is for service...not because it is in need of repair! I am not following how you think that is the same. As for Kias! OK :whistles: I am not going to buy one. But whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Yes, I do have my car taken to the dealer for service...but that is for service...not because it is in need of repair! I am not following how you think that is the same. As for Kias! OK :whistles: I am not going to buy one. But whatever... My question is why would it increase the time you have to spend taking your vehicle to the dealership if they did a warranty repair each of those times? You're still going to the dealership the same number of times. Thats also figuring you'll have 3-4 repairs a year with an American vehicle under warranty. I and my family have owned many American cars (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) and that just doesn't happen. Its up around 60k miles or so you start seeing the differences betwen a car like a Lexus and something like an Envoy. If you don't plan on keeping the vehicle that long and the added refinement and luxury aren't a basis in your decision, something like an Envoy becomes a possible choice. As for Kias, thats fine but saying they are poorly made and unreliable is simply untrue. Kia and especially Hyundai are making some very refined, reliable, attractive cars now and they are very good options for people considering Toyotas or Hondas. Often you can get a Kia or Hyundai for $5k+ less than a comparable Toyota or Honda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Well these yukons...if they're good enough for the president, they should be good enough for us regular joes. I admit the yukon is one of the more attractice cars, but for 50 grand, the inside is horrible looking. Ive see toyota's half the price with better looking interiors. It doesnt seem to change either, its been like that for quite some time. THey still dont get it. And this reminds me of an article on edmunds about how GM is going under or something. sigh...americans cant build cars, thats the botton line...germans are starting to get worse, go japanese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiasfinest Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 i heard from my friends the new escalade is very attractive, i have not seen it in person, but if this is true, i guess GM is changing, if not, than i would not be surprised, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 GM's interiors still have a long way to go. The new Yukon and Escalade are a big improvement though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEXIRX330 Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 My question is why would it increase the time you have to spend taking your vehicle to the dealership if they did a warranty repair each of those times? You're still going to the dealership the same number of times. Thats also figuring you'll have 3-4 repairs a year with an American vehicle under warranty. I and my family have owned many American cars (GM, Ford, and Chrysler) and that just doesn't happen. Its up around 60k miles or so you start seeing the differences betwen a car like a Lexus and something like an Envoy. If you don't plan on keeping the vehicle that long and the added refinement and luxury aren't a basis in your decision, something like an Envoy becomes a possible choice. I guess that if the car only was in need of repair when it was time to be serviced or if whatever the recall was than it could be put off until you next scheduled service that would be fine...I don't think that is the case. My Lexus takes 0 minutes out of my day for service or for that matter warranty work. I pick up the phone and call. They bring me a new one and take mine back for service and when it is done they bring it back to work or my home. I have yet to see any GM FORD OR CHRYSLER do that. Driving to the dealership takes time. You are in the sales business...how much is 3 to 4 hours worth. It would take at least that long to drive to the dealership and get the service done for me... As for Kias, thats fine but saying they are poorly made and unreliable is simply untrue. Kia and especially Hyundai are making some very refined, reliable, attractive cars now and they are very good options for people considering Toyotas or Hondas. Often you can get a Kia or Hyundai for $5k+ less than a comparable Toyota or Honda. I don't know what to even say about this...I think that these types of cars must have the warranty to sell...and the fact that they are over $5,000 less than a toyota or a honda says something to me. You get what you pay for. It might just be me but I can not put a KIA in the same class as a Toyota or Honda... I know pleanty of people that have kias or hyundai's and given the choice I think most of them would take a Toyota or a Honda over their car any day... I don't like them, I don't like the way they look, I do feel that they are made CHEAP, and I don't think I would ever buy one unless money was the only factor. This is just my opinion. Everybody has one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I guess that if the car only was in need of repair when it was time to be serviced or if whatever the recall was than it could be put off until you next scheduled service that would be fine...I don't think that is the case. Do you have an Envoy? If not then how can you make a statement like this? My Lexus takes 0 minutes out of my day for service or for that matter warranty work. I pick up the phone and call. They bring me a new one and take mine back for service and when it is done they bring it back to work or my home. I have yet to see any GM FORD OR CHRYSLER do that. Driving to the dealership takes time. You are in the sales business...how much is 3 to 4 hours worth. It would take at least that long to drive to the dealership and get the service done for me... Cadillac does that. Toyota doesn't do that, why would you expect Ford or Chrysler to? I always drive to the dealership because: 1. I don't want anyone else driving my car on public roads. 2. I don't just sit in the office all day, I'm always out and about so waiting for someone to pick it up or drop it off is more hassle than driving it to the dealer. 3 or 4 hours to drop your car off? What do you do take a nap when you get there? I drop the car off and get a loaner, takes 10 minutes. I don't know what to even say about this...I think that these types of cars must have the warranty to sell...and the fact that they are over $5,000 less than a toyota or a honda says something to me. You get what you pay for. It might just be me but I can not put a KIA in the same class as a Toyota or Honda... Well then you obviously don't know anything about Kias or Hyundais. Go drive some. Remember that 30 years ago people said the same thing about Toyota. Your Lexus is considerably less than a comparable Mercedes or BMW, and it has to be or nobody would buy them. Does that mean its inferior? You do however get what you pay for. I know pleanty of people that have kias or hyundai's and given the choice I think most of them would take a Toyota or a Honda over their car any day... Which is exactly what BMW and Mercedes owners say about Lexus owners. I do feel that they are made CHEAP Again, you obviously haven't done much research into them lately. This is just my opinion. And its closed minded and uninformed. You should open up to the possibilities and do some research into some of these cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyD Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Here goes the American car debate again :) The reason people have this perception on American cars is because they have been hearing about it, or they have experienced it themselves. I bought several American cars new and would never go back to them again. I don't really see they have improved. Even if they have, we will know 7 years from now anyway and you certainly can't tell they have improved by just looking at them now. I have heard stories like these about American cars myself and have experienced them myself. Here's a little stat (the attachment). Surprise surprise. Toyota, Lexus, Honda are on top. Ford is actually average (shocking to me) and look at the American cars. This is why you can have a $10,000 rebate and the car still collects dust on the lot. This is why your profits are falling and falling, about to be surpassed by other car makers. This is survival of the fittest. If you don't make the best product, see ya. It is sad to see people lose their jobs over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Well the reason you have a $10,000 rebate and the car collects dust on the lot is because of poor product packaging and negative brand image, only part of the issue comes from reliability. Their financial status also has very little to do with the product itself, its pressure from labor unions and poor management decisions over the years. Building fantastic cars can't even save them now but thats the topic of a whole other thread. Again, nobody is saying that any American car is as reliable as a Toyota, I'm just saying that if you're purchasing or leasing a car you only plan on having for 3 years or 50k miles before buying a new one, probably the benefits of more expensive Japanese cars as far as reliability is concerned is probably a moot point. Sure you have plenty of other benefits like higher quality materials and build, better body integrity etc, but nowadays basically anything will be pretty reliable for 3 years or 50k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 The reason people have this perception on American cars is because they have been hearing about it That's because of Consumer Reports mostly. What's the first thing someone does when looking at cars?? You go to Barnes and Noble and pick-up the auto issue. They are so damn biased towards the Japanese it's unreal. JD Power seems to be a little more balanced.It's about time Ford get's some good press! What troubles me though, why is Ford so much higher up than Lincoln and Mercury? They are all the same damn cars. Where is that chart from by the way? Mitsubishi made the top 10, now that's a joke! I'd consider public transit before a mitsubishi! LOL I'm suprised to see that Honda is all over the place with the pp100 vehicles...20-90...that's not too hot. Well the reason you have a $10,000 rebate and the car collects dust on the lot is because of poor product packaging I'll never understand the way that American car companies price their cars. The MSRPs they come with are truly humorus. I mean, a F150 King Ranch can be loaded up to $45k. Granted, you can expect $10k-$15k off of that sticker, but why not just price them so that the stickers aren't retardedly high, and by retardedly high, I mean not as expensive as a flippin brand new GS300! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEXIRX330 Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 No Steve it takes at least 1 1/2 to 2 hours to drive to the dealership. THAT IS OUT OF MY WAY. You have a habit of telling everyone how it is with out knowing the situation. And now you can tell someone how to form an opinion. I have drove and owned plenty of American made cars. Had a Yukon for 2 weeks as a loaner...Do all Cadillac dealerships do that. My mother in law has a 06 and they sure do not. If I wanted a ENVOY a YUKON or a ESCALADE...that is what I would have bought. I have done enough research on these and other cars and SUV's to form my own opinion. I do not need you to tell me that my opinion is wrong. KIA's and Hyundia's well ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my opinion ...which according to Steve has to be researched. And before you make a statement about any car you must own it...Steve...do you own a kia or a hyundai...than how can you make a statement like that! I am not telling anyone to buy them or not... IT IS MY OPINION ;) :whistles: I agree with alot of things that you say on this form...but not that my opinion is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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