Transmission Problems/failures with RX300 awd/fwd

[drewblank]

I'm new to the forum. I found site while researching the internet this because my transmission went out at 101K. Lexus dealership quoted $5500 to replace. Ugh. I chose to try my luck with a transmission repair shop. Only $3200.

[lenore]

See bluestu, another satisfied Lexus customer with a failed tranny. They just keep rolling in. Makes me proud to be the owner of a 1999 RX300 with The Third transmission in its guts.

[tmastres]

I am in Canada and I am considering a purchase of a Canadian 1999 RX300 with about 132k km (82k miles) on it. This thread on transmission problem of course concerns me and so I am curious; how many 'problem' RX300s are there in Canada and is it the same vehicle - or are the problems possibly only occuring in the US version? The reason why I am wondering about that is that I found a UK RX300 discussion list and there was no mention of any transmission problems at all.

Thank you.

What I've determined from a lot of study of the post on this forum and others is that the problem is primarily with the 99 models and primarily with the AWD versions. There were a few (not nearly as many) failures of 00 models and even fewer still with the -01-03 group. While I can't address your question regarding vehicles deliverd to Canada, I'd bet they're the same.

Anyhow,If you like the car enough to consider buying one a 00-01 version shouldnt be that much more. 99 was the first year of the model and no matter what brand of vehicle or model you should NEVER buy the first model year (outside the bounds of classic or collecter cars of course).

[bluestu]

I have a 99 RX with over 100k and there are no signs of any transmission problems at all. I've always had it flushed on a regular basis. Obviously the 99s are going to have more reports of transmission failures because they are older. There will be a lot more reports from later models as the years roll by. These cars are not being serviced correctly if at all, and most owners are not even aware that their transmission needs to be serviced. I've read reports on this forum of RX330s with transmission failures. If you don't change the entire fluid, they burn up. If you mix standard fluid with the Toyota type, they burn up. If Lexus is liable for anything, it would be for printing up a sorry maintenance schedule.

[tmastres]

I have a 99 RX with over 100k and there are no signs of any transmission problems at all. I've always had it flushed on a regular basis. Obviously the 99s are going to have more reports of transmission failures because they are older. There will be a lot more reports from later models as the years roll by. These cars are not being serviced correctly if at all, and most owners are not even aware that their transmission needs to be serviced. I've read reports on this forum of RX330s with transmission failures. If you don't change the entire fluid, they burn up. If you mix standard fluid with the Toyota type, they burn up. If Lexus is liable for anything, it would be for printing up a sorry maintenance schedule.

Fair points for certain but at this stage mileage wise, the 99 and 00 models seem to compare similarly on the average and there are noticabley fewer 00 failures than 99s. I realize that some failures might very well be due to poor or "non" mantainence however many of the most notorious failures on this list occurred in vehicles whose owners maintained them quite well (even excessively). Of course we've all been over this quite extensively so my point was just that if someone is looking for an early RX why not go with a 00 or 01 for only slightly more money, since statisically (for whatever reason) the 99's have more failures.

[bakalaj]

if someone is looking for an early RX why not go with a 00 or 01 for only slightly more money, since statisically (for whatever reason) the 99's have more failures.

Thank you, I think that's what I'll do.

[bluestu]

I have a 99 RX with over 100k and there are no signs of any transmission problems at all. I've always had it flushed on a regular basis. Obviously the 99s are going to have more reports of transmission failures because they are older. There will be a lot more reports from later models as the years roll by. These cars are not being serviced correctly if at all, and most owners are not even aware that their transmission needs to be serviced. I've read reports on this forum of RX330s with transmission failures. If you don't change the entire fluid, they burn up. If you mix standard fluid with the Toyota type, they burn up. If Lexus is liable for anything, it would be for printing up a sorry maintenance schedule.

Fair points for certain but at this stage mileage wise, the 99 and 00 models seem to compare similarly on the average and there are noticabley fewer 00 failures than 99s. I realize that some failures might very well be due to poor or "non" mantainence however many of the most notorious failures on this list occurred in vehicles whose owners maintained them quite well (even excessively). Of course we've all been over this quite extensively so my point was just that if someone is looking for an early RX why not go with a 00 or 01 for only slightly more money, since statisically (for whatever reason) the 99's have more failures.

I also have a 2000 model with over 100k and it is exactly the same as the '99. The transmissions in both cars are very smooth and shift exactly the same. They do shift a little differently from a standard transmission, but they are AWDs. I'm convinced that the majority of RX transmission failures are due to bad fluid. If the fluid is not completely changed out on a regular basis, the transmission overheats and burns up. It's really simple to understand, unfortunately most would rather ignore this fact and speculate that it might be something else. It's not. My only complaint so far is having to replace the overpriced air/fuel sensors.

[wwest]

I have a 99 RX with over 100k and there are no signs of any transmission problems at all. I've always had it flushed on a regular basis. Obviously the 99s are going to have more reports of transmission failures because they are older. There will be a lot more reports from later models as the years roll by. These cars are not being serviced correctly if at all, and most owners are not even aware that their transmission needs to be serviced. I've read reports on this forum of RX330s with transmission failures. If you don't change the entire fluid, they burn up. If you mix standard fluid with the Toyota type, they burn up. If Lexus is liable for anything, it would be for printing up a sorry maintenance schedule.

Fair points for certain but at this stage mileage wise, the 99 and 00 models seem to compare similarly on the average and there are noticabley fewer 00 failures than 99s. I realize that some failures might very well be due to poor or "non" mantainence however many of the most notorious failures on this list occurred in vehicles whose owners maintained them quite well (even excessively). Of course we've all been over this quite extensively so my point was just that if someone is looking for an early RX why not go with a 00 or 01 for only slightly more money, since statisically (for whatever reason) the 99's have more failures.

I also have a 2000 model with over 100k and it is exactly the same as the '99. The transmissions in both cars are very smooth and shift exactly the same. They do shift a little differently from a standard transmission, but they are AWDs. I'm convinced that the majority of RX transmission failures are due to bad fluid. If the fluid is not completely changed out on a regular basis, the transmission overheats and burns up. It's really simple to understand, unfortunately most would rather ignore this fact and speculate that it might be something else. It's not. My only complaint so far is having to replace the overpriced air/fuel sensors.

Both the 2000 and 2001 Lexus repair manuals indicate that these transaxles will upshift during throttle closed coastdown periods at 30-45 MPH or below 10 MPH. Not only that if you pay close attention you can feel the resulting "slingshot effect" at the higher speed and the "being bumped lightly from behind" just before coming to a full stop.

It's like the engine/transaxle ECU firmware is playing Russian Roulette, "guessing" just what your future intent is when you fully release the accelerator pedal in these circumstances. When it guesses wrong, and it obviously DOES, and you suddenly apply heavy pressure to the accelerator pedal, the engine/transaxle ECU MUST respond by quickly downshifting the transaxle. Absent the DBW system adopted in 2004 your RX engine will begin to build RPMs the instant you apply pressure to the accelerator pedal and now those downshift clutches will slip and BURN as they come into engagement.

So the reason the ATF in my 2001 AWD RX300 was looking and smelling burned at ~40,000 miles is because the clutches are slipping each and every time the ECU guesses WRONG.

But yes, it is now clear, seemingly, that the transaxles in the 99 models are failing more often than later models. But we have no idea what might have been done in the interim, mechanically or in firmware, to help alleviate the BURN rate of those clutches. Obviously the adoption of DBW in 2004 was thought at the time to be the solution. Insofar as alleviating the clutch BURN rate it was, just that the resulting delay/hesitation made the whole upshifting issue a lot more obvious if not actually hazardous.

But why the upshift sequence to begin with...?

And why hang on to it in 04 and thereby be forced to adopt DBW...??

See below for a possible answer.

PAY ATTENTION.....!!!

Almost all of these engine/transaxle delay/hesitation complaints, if not all of them, involve FWD or front biased AWD vehicles.

When you are coming to a stop, coasting down to a stop, if the roadbed happens to be quite slippery there is a real danger that almost any level of engine compression braking will/can result in complete loss of directional control.

What is, will be, the very first thing you would do, instinctively, if you felt the vehicle was not following the direction set by your stearing inputs?

Lift the accelerator pedal..QUICKLY...!!

If you are very near coming to a full and complete stop and the transaxle has already downshifted into 1st gear the level of engine compression braking could well be high enough to cause the front wheels/tires to completely break traction with the slippery roadbed.

I have been involved in moderately slippery roadbed conditions with a RWD wherein the ABS was so active the vehicle would literally not come to a complete stop. I'm quite sure that had it been a FWD with just a slight level of engine compression braking the ABS would have been ineffective, maybe totally so.

It is in these conditions that the AAA is currently recommending that drivers practice and learn to quickly shift a clutchless FWD vehicle's transaxle into neutral in order to increase the probability of maintaining directional control.

It is hard for me to believe that Toyota would go to these measures to increase the safety factor of their FWD and front biased AWD vehicles and then silently endure the adverse publicity without speaking up with an explanation.

So let's suppose that the insurance industry held a meeting with the automotive industry executives and told them that if they didn't in some way act to reduce or alleviate the number of accidents, injuries and deaths due to FWD engine braking they would go public and start charging a premium for policies involving operation of FWD and/or front biased AWD vehicles.

We all know that BA, Brake Assist, involves monitoring the rate at which the brake pedal is applied and ASSISTING the level of braking if the application rate indicates a PANIC stop.

So what if they are now also monitoring the RATE at which you lift the throttle and then quickly upshifting the transaxle accordingly. A simulation of the AAA recommendation.

And no individual company dare go public absent an agreement amongst all FWD manufacturers.

Look at Honda/Acura, the SH-AWD system specifically, who among us would have ever thought of that marque to the first to break ranks and begin the move away from FWD??

[My 1st SUV]

So the RX300 without trac such as the 99 RXAWD are just doomed.

Doomed to run hot under some driving circumstances. But the owner can at least partially mitigate the potential consequences by changing the fluid more frequently and checking the transmission filter screen for blockages every 2nd or 3rd fluid change. By contrast, planned obsolesence is engineered into most American car automatics built since the late 1970's (via inferior quality internal seals, inferior clutch friction material, inferior gear metalurgy, etc.) and no amount of fluid or filter changing will enable them to last 300,000+ miles like all Toyota automatics can.

I would not be so quick to get down on American cars I had a 1995 Saturn SC2 with well over 300,000 miles on it before I sold it. That transmission had a twist on filter that could be changed easily. It did not shift as smooth as my 99 RX 300 but it never leaked or cost me $5000 for a new tranny.

SIGH! And my wife was thinking of getting rid of her 1996 Saturn SL2 for a 02/03 RX300. After reading all these posts, I'm not so sure anymore!

[Fern]

Please see attached link and provide your input

on a poll of the 1999 RX300 AWD trani failures

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238236

[omniboy]

Add me to the list @93000 miles....2 days after I bought the thing from Honda East in Cincinnati. I called the dealer today and talked to the Manager, waiting on a call back to see what they will do for me. Here is the story

Well I bought the Lexus on Monday night at a dealer in Ohio. On the way home after I got off the interstate I noticed a light gear noise when taking off in 1st gear. I started reading online about these (RX300) and found that the transmission had a high failure rate if the fluid wasn't changed every 15K . So on Tuesday I bought the Toyota type IV fluid, transmission filter and gasket. Tuesday night I dropped the pan and found a small peice of metal from the plantery gears set that retains the pins . There was also the normal friction dust on the magnets and a couple of small metal shavings. I then replaced the filter and reinstalled the pan. I then put 9 quarts of fluid into the trans. I removed the cooler line from the trans ans started the vehicle I pumped out about 6 quarts of fluid and shut the engine off. I then put the cooler line back on and topped off the trans. I took it out for a test drive. The noise was still present but then on the 1-2 shift with light throttle there was about a 3 second delay before the shift was finshed. The rpms did not rise during the shift so I though maybe that was just the way it was programed to give a softer shift. Well this morning my wife calls me and say that the rpms climb slightly between the shift now. I'm going to call the dealer today and see if they are willing to do anything for me. I bet I'm screwed though. If there are any lawyers on here any advice is welcome. Looks like I will be rebuliding the transmission really soon though

[lenore]

Once the gears let loose it is all over. Take to to an independent tranny shop, not Lexus. The Lexus dealership will charge around $4300 to replace it. Get a firm quote from a tranny shop and good luck. Did you file a complaint with the NHTS board online? There data base needs to grow. I am pushing this. And then contact LExus of America and tell them how unhappy you are with their product. Good Luck. By the way the dealership didnt give you a 90 day warranty? Check with a lawyer.

[wwest]

Impossible to believe...

Ford has the answer.....!

From the new 2007 Ford Edge PR..

"<i>The electronically shift controlled transmission also features a variable displacement pump, which matches the amount of fluid that gets pushed through the transmission to driver demand, making it more efficient.</i>"

At full lift-throttle all of the FWD Toyota/lexus vehicles begin an upshift just as the engine RPM drops to idle. With the engine at idle the upshift will exhaust/use most, or possibly all, of the pressurized ATF.

Now if you happen to re-apply foot pressure to the accelerator pedal just as the upshift begins the engine/transaxle ECU will "know" to delay the onset of engine until the low engine "idle" RPM can build enough ATF pressure to complete the corresponding downshift.

The most obvious answer would be to increase the volume of the fixed volume ATF pump so enough pressure/flow could be provided for two sequential QUICK shifts with the engine at idle. But then most of that added volume would be bypassed, disapated as heat, as the engine RPM rises above idle.

Ford's answer, apparently, is to have a variable displacement ATF pump so it can be switched to high volume when quick/SOLID shifting is required with the engine at idle. Makes me wonder if that allowed them to eliminate the ATF pressure bypass relief spring/valve also.

That would REALLY increase transaxle efficiency.

A second option would havre been to have an ATF pressure storage accumulator (like the ABS pumpmotor asembly). But putting one of those in an already "crowded" six-speed transaxle is probably out of the question.

Anyone know if any of the newer Toyota/Lexus transaxles have either? Absent one or the other the delay/hesitation issue will undoubtedly continue.

[wwest]

Just thinking out loud.

Why couldn't toyota use the DBW system to match engine RPM to current gear ratio/roadspeed upon FULL lift-throttle and thereby eliminate engine compression braking?

Adverse effect on FE so probably not.

Then again look how rare these instances seem to be, FULL lift-throttle coastdowns vs partial lift-throttle for entering cruising mode. If nothing else this technique could be used for the first few hundred milliseconds of FULL lift-throttle, thereby delaying the transaxle upshift, in case a quick return to acceleration is indicated.

But then how would drivers react to the resulting engine RPM "flare" during FULL lift-throttle events?

Worrisome.

[webbie]

Thanks for input guys....was a little warmer this morning (45) so took off as soon as i started the car and thats when it happened....I will be sure to let her sit a little longer

yeah i have the same stupid problem is my 2000 rx300... its gettin cold for the winter time and my tranny wont shift in 4th until the temp bar has reached at least the Cold part. this is a problem cuz i live 1/2 from a major highway and dont want to put my engine through 4500 rpms till it warms up... to solve the problem i make my little sister start my car and warm it up while i get ready for school... best idea ever!

[RXHound]

Can you install an autostart mechanism to keep from having to run out in the cold!?

[Ericok]

Thanks for input guys....was a little warmer this morning (45) so took off as soon as i started the car and thats when it happened....I will be sure to let her sit a little longer

yeah i have the same stupid problem is my 2000 rx300... its gettin cold for the winter time and my tranny wont shift in 4th until the temp bar has reached at least the Cold part. this is a problem cuz i live 1/2 from a major highway and dont want to put my engine through 4500 rpms till it warms up... to solve the problem i make my little sister start my car and warm it up while i get ready for school... best idea ever!

ALL Toyotas do that.

[lenore]

Well they keep rolling in, another lady just lost her tranny at 53k miles. How sad, I continue to keep a history of the failures. In her case she cannot afford the fix, so it sits in her garage. Great reputation for reliabilty. On the other lexus site, the percentage of failures is at 25 percent roughly. That in my mind is a very high failure rate.

[tmastres]

Well they keep rolling in, another lady just lost her tranny at 53k miles. How sad, I continue to keep a history of the failures. In her case she cannot afford the fix, so it sits in her garage. Great reputation for reliabilty. On the other lexus site, the percentage of failures is at 25 percent roughly. That in my mind is a very high failure rate.

How bout some details! What year, AWD etc.. We're all trying to figure this thing out so the more info we have the better. Thanks!

[wwest]

Details....

At ~40k miles my 2001 AWD RX300's ATF was looking/smelled burned and appeared to be contaminated. I changed it out twice, 4 qts first time and 5 the second, after I discovered the second ATF drain plug in the diff'l case.

Am now at ~60K miles and the ATF still looks mostly pristine.

I became suspecious of the possibility of the VC heating to operational levels so I checked the condition of the gearcase oil in the transfer case and it looked okay, clear.

I have always checked the ATF fill/condition at each DIY oil change and I don't remember taking note of any ATF problems/indications prior to the 40k mark.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should revise my proposed sequence of events that led to all of these early transaxle failures and then engine/transaxle downshift delay/hesitation issues problems.

Suppose...

In about 99 Toyota and Lexus started using the FULL lift-throttle upshift sequence in order to A), improve FE, B), prevent engine compression braking from interfering with ABS activity, C), reduce the potential for loss of directional control due to engine compression braking, and D), any or all of the above.

The ATF oil pressure pump in these earlier models did not have the capacity to provide enough pressure/flow for two gear changes in quick sucession so these transaxle begin to fail due to the unexpected rate of clutch frictional surface wear from slippage.

So the ATF oil pressure pump in the later models (2000, 2001 RX300??) had more pumping capacity.

The problem that arises from that fix is the fact that providing this extra volume/flow pump capacity with the engine at idle meant bypassing HUGE volumes of pressurized ATF at high engine RPM even when no volume, or very little volume, at all was required.

Not only HIGHLY INEFFICIENT, but generates lots, TONS, of extra heat in the process. (Was the trailer towing package, including external ATF cooling heat exchanger, in my 2001 REALLY an option?)

Resulting in the requirement that (thoroughly BOILED) ATF be changed out on a 15,000 mile schedule.

So by 2004, the RX330, the lower capacity ATF pump was back in use and DBW was being used to delay engine torque developement until the required downshift was completed. Note that the VC was also dropped for the entire RX330 run.

Now I know why Ford has just announced they are using a variable displacement ATF pump in the new (FWD) Ford Edge "for improved transaxle operational efficiency".

That would allow them to have HIGH volume/displacement capacity when gearshifts are commanded at low engine RPM, and proportionately lower volume/displacement depending on engine RPM at other gearshift times. And only enough volume to overcome system leakage and provide computing power (valve body) otherwise.

Highly efficient and no requirement to use DBW to delay the onset of engine torque...

Do you suppose Toyota is listening...??

[lenore]

The Lady informed me she has a 2000 RX300 AWD at 53kmiles. And she just emailed me to add to my list.

[RXHound]

Details....

At ~40k miles my 2001 AWD RX300's ATF was looking/smelled burned and appeared to be contaminated. I changed it out twice, 4 qts first time and 5 the second, after I discovered the second ATF drain plug in the diff'l case.

Am now at ~60K miles and the ATF still looks mostly pristine.

I became suspecious of the possibility of the VC heating to operational levels so I checked the condition of the gearcase oil in the transfer case and it looked okay, clear.

I have always checked the ATF fill/condition at each DIY oil change and I don't remember taking note of any ATF problems/indications prior to the 40k mark.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should revise my proposed sequence of events that led to all of these early transaxle failures and then engine/transaxle downshift delay/hesitation issues problems.

Suppose...

In about 99 Toyota and Lexus started using the FULL lift-throttle upshift sequence in order to A), improve FE, B), prevent engine compression braking from interfering with ABS activity, C), reduce the potential for loss of directional control due to engine compression braking, and D), any or all of the above.

The ATF oil pressure pump in these earlier models did not have the capacity to provide enough pressure/flow for two gear changes in quick sucession so these transaxle begin to fail due to the unexpected rate of clutch frictional surface wear from slippage.

So the ATF oil pressure pump in the later models (2000, 2001 RX300??) had more pumping capacity.

The problem that arises from that fix is the fact that providing this extra volume/flow pump capacity with the engine at idle meant bypassing HUGE volumes of pressurized ATF at high engine RPM even when no volume, or very little volume, at all was required.

Not only HIGHLY INEFFICIENT, but generates lots, TONS, of extra heat in the process. (Was the trailer towing package, including external ATF cooling heat exchanger, in my 2001 REALLY an option?)

Resulting in the requirement that (thoroughly BOILED) ATF be changed out on a 15,000 mile schedule.

So by 2004, the RX330, the lower capacity ATF pump was back in use and DBW was being used to delay engine torque developement until the required downshift was completed. Note that the VC was also dropped for the entire RX330 run.

Now I know why Ford has just announced they are using a variable displacement ATF pump in the new (FWD) Ford Edge "for improved transaxle operational efficiency".

That would allow them to have HIGH volume/displacement capacity when gearshifts are commanded at low engine RPM, and proportionately lower volume/displacement depending on engine RPM at other gearshift times. And only enough volume to overcome system leakage and provide computing power (valve body) otherwise.

Highly efficient and no requirement to use DBW to delay the onset of engine torque...

Do you suppose Toyota is listening...??

WWest, I really enjoy reading your informative posts.

Any idea if this potential for overheating (I emboldened that section of your original post) warrants shifting to neutral while parked and/or standing in gear?

If Ford got there first, wonder what the patent cost is on that innovation?

[lvc2]

Add one more to the list of people who lost a transmission (at 111,000). Followed all maintence requirements. Mostly highway miles. First car of mine in 30 years to lose a transmission. Even my olds mini-van made it to 225,000 with no trans problems. Really bad news as it had an auxiliary trans cooler with no heavy towing.

Good news is that no other significant problems as long as maintained. I replaced the trans with a rebuilt one which I hope goes another 100K or so.

[mikey00]

Add one more to the list of people who lost a transmission (at 111,000). Followed all maintence requirements. Mostly highway miles. First car of mine in 30 years to lose a transmission. Even my olds mini-van made it to 225,000 with no trans problems. Really bad news as it had an auxiliary trans cooler with no heavy towing.

Good news is that no other significant problems as long as maintained. I replaced the trans with a rebuilt one which I hope goes another 100K or so.

Dealer or independent shop? How much? Any additional thoughts or suggestions? I am just trying to prepare for when my day comes. I'm at 106k now.

[lvc2]

Add one more to the list of people who lost a transmission (at 111,000). Followed all maintence requirements. Mostly highway miles. First car of mine in 30 years to lose a transmission. Even my olds mini-van made it to 225,000 with no trans problems. Really bad news as it had an auxiliary trans cooler with no heavy towing.

Good news is that no other significant problems as long as maintained. I replaced the trans with a rebuilt one which I hope goes another 100K or so.

Dealer or independent shop? How much? Any additional thoughts or suggestions? I am just trying to prepare for when my day comes. I'm at 106k now.

Independent shop in Las Vegas. $2000. No issues in first 4,000 miles. Has warranty and I noticed another rx300 getting a new transmission before I went in. Shop been there over 10 years. I am planning to change the trans fluid every 15K miles to avoid this again.. I was doing every 30,000.