Narrowing Down Tire Choices

[LexusLooker]

Hi guys, man it was tough not having LOC yesterday! I was going through withdrawals.

We've all seen (or authored, or contributed to) the gazillion threads about "what's the best tire for MEEE". We roll our eyes, mutter "not another one, can't they SEARCH?", but we read ever word of them and tuck the varied pieces of information away for when it's our turn to replace our ride's shoes.

OK, it's my turn!! My Toyo Proxes TPTs are worn enough to not feel too bad about throwing them away. I have 35K on them and the noise and vibration are driving me batty (sound familiar Steve?). I could probably get 5-10K more out of them, but the handling has deteriorated a lot with the way they have worn - apparently they tend to feather edge. I've searched and read and searched more, and I've narrowed down from Falken, Dunlop, Continental and Bridgestone to MXV4 plus, largely based on Steve's and Blake's recommendations. They seem to be as freaky about noise/vibration/feel as I am. Buuuut...I noticed that Tire Rack is selling the Yokohama Avid V4s for $80, compared to $140 for the MXVs. So I'm asking for an update from members who have the Avids and the MXVs as well as general advice.

Anybody have the Avids for a few thousand miles? I've typically heard good things about Yokos, and the reviews (I know...grain of salt...) are good on the V4s for noise, ride and handling. The reviews say they stink in the ice/snow, which is rare here. I think either 90LSBob or 99LSGuy put these on. Any updates on the MXVs after a few miles? Of course, the Avid is a performance tire, and the MXV is a touring tire.

I don't particularly care about mileage. All tires lose a lot of their luster halfway through their useful life; a long lasting tire means that much more time to suffer through the last half of life! I'm more interested in quietness, smoothness (not necessarily softness, just overall feel) and handling.

Thanks guys.

James

[nc211]

Well, you know my answer from the tire thread a couple weeks ago. I had the MVX4's put on last tuesday, and it is a night and day difference from the continentials I put on "that tire rack RAVED about being so good" to the Michelins "tirerack gave a half-hum review". For me, my car has never driven, riden or sounded better than it does now with the michelins.

My advice is this. It's pretty much agreed that the Michelins are a great choice for the LS400. I think we can all agree on that. But I also understand the desire to save a hundred or two on tires. So, if you are going to try anything but the michelins, then I would NOT buy them from tirerack, but rather a dealer in your area. I say this because whatever you save from tirerack will be spent on mounting and balancing, and if you're not happy with the tires, then the whole process repeats itself. Take for instance my continentials. I paid $395 for all four. Paid $40 for mounting and balancing "1st time". Balancing was horrible. Took it to a shop that has the Hunter 9700 machine, paid another $40 for balancing. Still didn't work. Took it to the dealer, paid $50 for balancing "and a handful of other nick nack fixes". Senior tech told me one tire was too far out of spec for roundness, tirerack sent a replacement for free "took 3 days". New tire got there, installed, and still rode like a ton of bricks. Decided to buy the Michelins from tirerack and refund the continetals. $590 for the Michelins. Tires got to the dealership and replaced plus rebalanced, for another $60 bucks. Car is at it's TOP performance now, no question about it.

Using tirerack cost me an additional $130 in labor fees and hassles, for nothing. $520 total to come to the conclusion that the tires sucked.

I'm not selling Michelin tires here, but I am saying that if you're not going to buy Michelins first, then don't use tirerack to experiement. If your choice turns out to be wrong, you'll be all over the place with tires coming, tires going, remountings, rebalancings. With a local shop lika a Just Tires or something, if the 1st choice stinks, just drive back and get a refund.

If you use a local shop, also MAKE SURE they use the Hunter 9700 balancing machine....it...is...the....best on the market. You can find one in your area by doing a google search on the system.

[Arkansawyer]

Agree on the Michelins. Had Michelins when I first bought the car with one worn down to the cords in one spot. The suspension was shot and I am taking care of that now. But even with the above it still rode smoother than the tires I have on now. Put on some BF Goodrich from Sam's and they are the worst. Ride worse than worn out Michelin's.

But at least I won't have wasted good money on tires while I am rebuilding the suspension. As soon as I get that square I'll go back with Michelins.

[W201 sweden]

Regarding the Michelins sold and made in Europe, I must say they are every bit as good as you say.

I've never heard about ONE defective tire from that company. They are not always top ranking on every parameter, but as a whole, you will not be disappointed with them. I recommend them to anyone.

It is a shame the tires are almost twice the price here, though...

Contis are from and for Germany, with it's super smooth roads. I find them to be very noisy when driven on

the rougher Swedish roads.

[cardona6569]

Regarding the Michelins sold and made in Europe, I must say they are every bit as good as you say.

I've never heard about ONE defective tire from that company. They are not always top ranking on every parameter, but as a whole, you will not be disappointed with them. I recommend them to anyone.

It is a shame the tires are almost twice the price here, though...

Contis are from and for Germany, with it's super smooth roads. I find them to be very noisy when driven on

the rougher Swedish roads.

Thanks: I almost to save a dime or two was going to buy the Sams BF G Tires. I guess I am keeping Bridgestones or changing to Michelins when time comes. The time probably will be before the year is over. At least for two of the Tires. Have anybody heard about Kelly Tires?

C. PR

[nc211]

Have anybody heard about Kelly Tires?

C. PR

Don't you mean kHELLy tires.

[SW03ES]

Yep, sounds exactly like my experience with the TPTs. the Michies will make the car drive like brand new again.

I've never had the Avids, but I do have a colleague who has them on his 02 ES300 and my 03 with the Michelins is smoother and quieter. Plus the Avids are kind of silly looking on a Lexus with their geometrically shaped sidewall patterns etc.

Get the Michies, or if you want to save some money order the OEM Dunlop SP Sport 4000 from TireRack.

[LexusLooker]

Thanks for the replies, all. And to think I've almost spent the 250 bucks I would have saved with the Yokos!!

Steve, your observation of the geometric stuff on the Yokos is not the first apperance-type thing you and I have both noticed and commented on. I also thought they looked too "zoomy" for an LS in some pictures. I'm glad you got to compare your colleague's Yokos with your Michelins. Funny you mention the Dunlops. I hear so much about the Dunlops being quiet, but also that they flatspot and get noisy. They're tempting because of their quietness, but they're not much cheaper.

Robert, I'm soooo glad your wobble problem is fixed. We were beginning to think it was YOU who was wobbly! Interesting comment about Tire Rack. I went to an indie for the first time for another problem(Davenport in Dallas for you locals...JPI is just too far away), and he recommended getting the tires from TR and shipping to him. I think you're saying it's safe with Michelin, but not if I'm experimenting with different brands, right? The owner of Davenport said to go with Michelin, and one of the mechanics said to check into BFG. Sounds like Arkansawyer answered that problem! By the way, Ark, Costco has Mich on sale sometimes...$60 off a set. Keep an eye out for that. W201Sweden, maybe we can ship you a set :)

Thanks for all your help.

James

[Arkansawyer]

Have heard tons about Costco, especially their hot dogs? Never been in one, I'm in Sam's/Wally World. Travel to Dallas on an occasion and see one along the highway somewhere along the way.

Have bought tires at Sam's for my folks and myself. Dad got GY's for the F150 likes 'em. Got Mich for mom's Caddy, prob. First set of BFG I got for the Echo were great. Second set OK. For the Expedtition I first tried Dunlop's and they were horrendous. Next were BFG and they are marginal. Then the Lexus, and in the tires defense it could be my suspension causing the tires to wear crazy. Got that out of round sound and vibe. Drives me freakin nuts.

As soon as I get the suspension restored it doesn't matter how many miles are left on these tires, I'm going to Michelins.

[lsrxlex]

I always go to Costco for tires. They carry Michelin and BFG tires (at my local stores) and they offer free balance and rotation (recommended every 5-6 k miles) for the life of the tires. I'm happy with the deal and using Michelin all the time (so far).

[W201 sweden]

Lexus Looker said:

W201Sweden, maybe we can ship you a set

That would really be something...

Good luck with the tires!

/Alexander from Sweden

[blake918]

I just put BFG Traction TA tires on my '95 a week or two ago. I've put about 2,000 miles on them so far, and I am very, very pleased with them. They have a very conservative directional tread pattern, so I couldn't be more pleased with the wet traction. They are pretty quiet and very smooth (now that I have them aired properly.). They have a 620 tread rating, so I'm looking forward to that because drive a lot. I got mine for about $90/tire from WalMart since I was in a bit of a pickle, but tirerack sells them for much less.

I had a great experience with my MXV4s; however, I am a little disappointed with the fact that they (3 of the 4 tires) developed massive, massive, massive tread separation after being repaired by a reputable tire shop.

James, I hear a lot of great things about Craig and the gang Davenport! ;)

[Arkansawyer]

Curious on the repair of the Mich's and what exactly they did. Know from riding m/c's that many tire manufacturers frown on repairing an mc tire. As air can seep into the "sandwich" of the tire and cause detrimental tread seperation.

Not sure if this could have been what happened but interesting none the less.

[jc19907]

SWE -

I agree to disagree. Michelins, no doubt the best tires (depending on the tire), but, the Yoko's don't look bad at all - they just don't look as sexy as the Pilot Sport. The Energy and MX are boring looking to me, while the Pilot is down right awesome. I bought the AVID H4's for my LS. I've put approx. 2K miles on them and so far they've been dynamite.

I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on before - a tremendous Tire and great looking on the rim - But, for half the cost these tires, the YOKO's look nearly as good and I've felt no difference in performance.

The original Tire on my car was a Dunlop SP 9000? I thought it was really a vanilla tire. Ugly etc...

So far, the grip and quietness on the YOKO's have been fantastic. Smooth. I'll be getting another set @ 30K. I really would reccomend this tire as an option for those who wish to save some cash.

3cts

[RFeldes]

Of interest.... I took my 430 in for maintenance to the Dealer when I was in Shreveport escaping Rita. They rotated my tires and said the "now" fronts (Michelin MV4 Pluses) needed to be replaced @ $220 apiece. I passed, as I felt I still had another 5K on them. Went to Sam's and was quoted $158 apiece mounted and balanced. I like the Michelins, but not as quite and smooth as the Goodyears on my 90. I understand the 430 has 17's and handles crisper with the Mv's. But can, In all honesty, tell you the 90 was smoother and quieter but the handling and braking were lacking. Not complaining about quieter in as much as the improved handling and braking make a big difference. The best of both worlds would be nice.

[blake918]

Curious on the repair of the Mich's and what exactly they did. Know from riding m/c's that many tire manufacturers frown on repairing an mc tire. As air can seep into the "sandwich" of the tire and cause detrimental tread seperation.

Not sure if this could have been what happened but interesting none the less.

I'm not sure how they repair tires; I just drop them off and come back when they call me saying it's ready! LOL Here's a picture of what was probably the worse of my 4....

After a second one separated as bad as this one and refused to hold pressure, I had no choice but to get the car towed to WalMart and get the BFG put on there. As it turns out, they are very, very decent tires for the money, and I'm pretty happy. Wet and dry traction are excellent as is the ride. However, the noise could be better, but I half expected it since they have such a high tread rating (620....I think the Energys had only 400).

[99lsguy]

I've had the Avid V4s on my 99 for about a year and a half.....replaced the yokohamas on it. I've been very happy overall. Quiet, good grip. $340 from tirerack dropshipped to my local mechanic.

[bicol-ini]

got yokohamas v4s, no complaints so far quiet ride better than the oem michelins

[Lexusfreak]

Curious on the repair of the Mich's and what exactly they did. Know from riding m/c's that many tire manufacturers frown on repairing an mc tire. As air can seep into the "sandwich" of the tire and cause detrimental tread seperation.

Not sure if this could have been what happened but interesting none the less.

I'm not sure how they repair tires; I just drop them off and come back when they call me saying it's ready! LOL Here's a picture of what was probably the worse of my 4....

After a second one separated as bad as this one and refused to hold pressure, I had no choice but to get the car towed to WalMart and get the BFG put on there. As it turns out, they are very, very decent tires for the money, and I'm pretty happy. Wet and dry traction are excellent as is the ride. However, the noise could be better, but I half expected it since they have such a high tread rating (620....I think the Energys had only 400).

How many miles did you get on those Michelins blake? B)

[LexusLooker]

No wonder there are frequent threads like this - it's so difficult to pick a stinkin' tire! Thanks for all the good input. And Blake, that's a scary looking tire.

It's curious that the often-recommended tires are in different categories. V rated seems to be the tire of choice, but the categories are different - the MXV4 is a touring tire, the Dunlop SP 4000 is an ultra-high performance tire, and the Yokos are high performance. I would think that would make a huge difference in the feel of the car and may or not reflect what the Lexus engineers intended. I never cared much for the Toyos' lack of grip in cornering and take-off grip, even new. It's drippy wet today and I had to be careful leaving any stoplight, even with about 5/32 of tread left. So I'm pretty much deciding whether to go towards higher performance or towards "touring".

I called one of the dealers and asked their recommendation. Interestingly, they transferred me to the parts guy, not one of the service guys. I would think a service guy would see more of the real world. Anyway, the parts guy said they recommend 3 tires - Mich MXV4, Bridgestone (I assume Turanza LSV) and Dunlop (I assume 4000 or 5000). He said of the 3, the Mich was a more comfortable tire (touring instead of performance??). He also said it was the cheapest of the 3!! $800, balanced on the Super Hunter (thanks NC211), installed, and included a road hazard warranty. Sounds steep, but the same thing from Tire Rack, including shipping, installation elsewhere, tax, blah blah was about $755. I'm thinking the $45 dollar upcharge is worth it to have one neck to choke at the dealer if there's an issue that turns into bad tire vs. bad balancing vs. worn suspension, or if I do have a road hazard problem and don't have to deal with shipping a tire back to Tire Rack. That said, the Yokos are under $500 installed. ;)

Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you posted.

[blake918]

How many miles did you get on those Michelins blake? B)

Bren, I got about 60,000 miles out of them; then, they started wobbling like crazy sobs. I love that I don't have to tip-toe around in the rain anymore with my Goodrichs. I'll take a little more road noise for excellent wet traction!

[Lexusfreak]

How many miles did you get on those Michelins blake? B)

Bren, I got about 60,000 miles out of them; then, they started wobbling like crazy sobs. I love that I don't have to tip-toe around in the rain anymore with my Goodrichs. I'll take a little more road noise for excellent wet traction!

Not too shabby at all blake! B) Enjoy the new tires.

[RFeldes]

I just ordered "2" 17" 225/55R MV4 Plus "XSE" tires from Sam's for $376 mounted, balanced with road hazard. The "XSE"

was $20 a tire more than the standard MV4 Plus. Don't know the difference but XSE is what are on now. Anybody know the difference?

[Lexusfreak]

I just ordered "2" 17" 225/55R MV4 Plus "XSE" tires from Sam's for $376 mounted, balanced with road hazard. The "XSE"

was $20 a tire more than the standard MV4 Plus. Don't know the difference but XSE is what are on now. Anybody know the difference?

Not sure bud, I could not find any specific information on the 'XSE' version of the MXV4's....nothing on tirerack & nothing on the Michelin website.

[RFeldes]

Found this at Michelin...Radial XSE: A family of technologies developed by Michelin incorporating all aspects of tire design. Radial XSE reduces a tire's "rolling resistance" without sacrificing superior levels of handling, treadwear, ride comfort, and traction.

I guess the Plus "is" XSE.