07 Mb S Class Vs. Ls460

[Rx330driver]

Actually i think that the americans were the first to use analog clocks...like in the cadillacs and stuff. But!!! by dad has a 1984 SEC 500 mercedes, which he wont get rid of, but anyways, it has an analog clock next to the rpm meter. lol. so....i guess they did use it back then

[SW03ES]

Find me a Cadillac with an Analog clock built after 1980. I don't think there is one. Find me a Mercedes ever with that design. Mercedes does clocks in the gauge cluster.

Infiniti is definately the first company to make an analog clock the center of their dash design.

As for Infiniti, better watch them. The G35 is a hit, the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.

I sat in an M35 today, beautiful car.

[blake918]

As for Infiniti, better watch them. The G35 is a hit, the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.

Watch them for what, continued sales declines? Their sales are down across the board except for two of their models (the QX and M). The Q45 has never really sold in NA. In December, they sold a staggering 52 of them. With hot, new 3 series and IS sedans, the G35 is slowly falling between the cracks and will soon be a thing of the past which is why their sales were down by almost 10% in 2005. I think I've maybe seen 5 FXs in person; the FX sales numbers are dismal when compared to the RX. I don't doubt that Infiniti makes a great car, but they just don't seem to be any competition to other luxury brands.

There are many Lincolns with analog clocks built after 1980...

[cardona6569]

As for Infiniti, better watch them. The G35 is a hit, the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.

Watch them for what, continued sales declines? Their sales are down across the board except for two of their models (the QX and M). The Q45 has never really sold in NA. In December, they sold a staggering 52 of them. With hot, new 3 series and IS sedans, the G35 is slowly falling between the cracks and will soon be a thing of the past which is why their sales were down by almost 10% in 2005. I think I've maybe seen 5 FXs in person; the FX sales numbers are dismal when compared to the RX. I don't doubt that Infiniti makes a great car, but they just don't seem to be any competition to other luxury brands.

There are many Lincolns with analog clocks built after 1980...

[/quote

Just my two cents:

Infinity literally killed the Q 45 after 2001, with that "1980 Pacer Bubblehead" look. Reference in case you have not seen the AMC Pacerm go to Wayne's World movie, there is one in there, for its ugliness. Why else?

That is why the M45 is selling better because is the logical evolution of the Q45, which did not come as such with the ugly model change. Second the reliability of the Infinity cars even as better than MB not quite better than Lexus or even in some instances the American Luxury models. I besides my LS drive a Murano with I bought new. The radiator literally cracked, 35,000 miles (told the dealer to check the radiator cap, they said it was good, a week after changing the new radiator, the coolant started evaporating, the radiator cap caused the radiator problem but the dealer overlooked it, even as there is a TB for it to get checked/replaced), gas tank latch closing problems, 4 times to the dealer, and the problem never really went away. Electrical Generator Recall, mine is still working good, and the latest, the Mass Airflow sensor gone bad, a 348.00 proposition without the maintenance, the Suv does have 47,000 miles with good maintenance, oil changes. From the beginning they published an inflated MPG, which the truck never gives and was reported as such after I bought the vehicle. I also understand it was the first year of production for the model, but most of the platform is from an Altima, a well tested car. The truck runs good, but I just feel that it is too expensive for the problems it has being relatively new. I have a 1989 Grand Prix that gives less problems than the Murano.

C. PR

[SW03ES]

As for Infiniti, better watch them. The G35 is a hit, the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.

Watch them for what, continued sales declines? Their sales are down across the board except for two of their models (the QX and M). The Q45 has never really sold in NA. In December, they sold a staggering 52 of them. With hot, new 3 series and IS sedans, the G35 is slowly falling between the cracks and will soon be a thing of the past which is why their sales were down by almost 10% in 2005. I think I've maybe seen 5 FXs in person; the FX sales numbers are dismal when compared to the RX. I don't doubt that Infiniti makes a great car, but they just don't seem to be any competition to other luxury brands.

There are many Lincolns with analog clocks built after 1980...

The G35 is near the end of its design cycle, a new one will be out soon. Sales ALWAYS decline towards the end of the design cycle as buyers wait for the new model.

The FX was never designed to sell as high volume as the RX, and why would it sell as much its more of a niche vehicle and doesn't have as much utility as the RX.

Trust me, these guys can make cars and they can make them unique and different. In time they'll be a force to be reckoned with. They're not as refined as a Lexus, but they have an intriguing edge to them and a growing loyal following.

And find me some Lincolns built in the 80s with prominent analog clocks in the center stack. You won't find one. As a matter of fact I will dare you to find me any Lincoln built ever to feature a prominent stylized analog clock in the center stack that serves as the focal point of the interior.

Actually make that ANY modern car, built after the advent of digital clocks when an analog clock would simply be a styling point, before the Q45 in 1990.

If you find one I would be extremely surprised.

[blake918]

The G35 is near the end of its design cycle, a new one will be out soon. Sales ALWAYS decline towards the end of the design cycle as buyers wait for the new model.

We're talking about a car that came out in 2003. Two years in is the end of the design cycle? Of course sales go down at the end...

The FX was never designed to sell as high volume as the RX, and why would it sell as much its more of a niche vehicle and doesn't have as much utility as the RX.

Fair enough. However, when you are selling 52 Q45s in NA in one month, it's time to compromise the "niche." I commend their wanting to be different, but when something is not selling, it's time to go back to the drawing board. They should have canned that car a long time ago.

Trust me, these guys can make cars and they can make them unique and different. In time they'll be a force to be reckoned with. They're not as refined as a Lexus, but they have an intriguing edge to them and a growing loyal following.

I never said they don't make good cars. I'm just saying their sales, across the board, have never been stellar.

And find me some Lincolns built in the 80s with prominent analog clocks in the center stack. You won't find one. As a matter of fact I will dare you to find me any Lincoln built ever to feature a prominent stylized analog clock in the center stack that serves as the focal point of the interior.

This is a 79 or 80 Continential I believe:

I'll entertain the arguement that the above pic isn't too strong of a focal point, but neither is this early '90's Infiniti:

1998 Town Car Cartier (this is an awesome pic! B) )...very much a focal point:

There are more too.

Actually make that ANY modern car, built after the advent of digital clocks when an analog clock would simply be a styling point, before the Q45 in 1990.

I'm not sure what you mean. 1990 isn't very modern to me.

[SW03ES]

Here is some interesting reading about the Infiniti clock.

Review of the FX:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/04/05/187928.html

Exerpt:

Of course, there's the signature Infiniti analog clock in the center of the dash. It's amazing how many manufacturers have copied this neat touch.

A review of the 2002 Q45:

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedan...5_infiniti_q45/

Exerpt:

The Q's center console, which includes Infiniti's famed analog clock, has been carefully arranged to the driver's view,

Review of the G35:

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/InfinitiG35/

Exerpt:

When the screen pops up, it blocks the Infiniti trademark analog clock, but this is not a problem because the display contains a digital clock that, to my mind, is easier to read than that stylized clock dial.

Another review of the FX:

http://cars.ign.com/articles/433/433068p1.html

Exerpt:

brushed metal center console is also a good touch, as is the Infiniti-trademark analog clock.

Seems pretty understood that the clock is an Infinti trademark.

We're talking about a car that came out in 2003. Two years in is the end of the design cycle? Of course sales go down at the end...

The new ES came out in 02 and it was just replaced.

Fair enough. However, when you are selling 52 Q45s in NA in one month, it's time to compromise the "niche." I commend their wanting to be different, but when something is not selling, it's time to go back to the drawing board. They should have canned that car a long time ago.

I never said the Q45 was a successful vehicle, in fact I said exactly

The G35 is a hit' date=' the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.[/quote']

I never said they don't make good cars. I'm just saying their sales, across the board, have never been stellar.

But the sales of their new revamped models, that vary drastically from their previous models, have been much better.

This is a 79 or 80 Continential I believe:

I'll entertain the arguement that the above pic isn't too strong of a focal point

Doesn't count. Thats not the type of clock I dared you to find, thats a pre-digital linear clock. Doesn't fly. Plus thats not an ornamental use of the clock, thats the best clock technology they could use. You're looking for centralized ORNAMENTAL clocks.

1998 Town Car Cartier (this is an awesome pic! B) )...very much a focal point:

Doesn't count, this clock was added to this car AFTER the 1990 Infiniti Q45 was released. This clock is a copycat of the Infiniti trademark just like the Mercedes.

There are more too.

No, there aren't.

Here's the original challenge:

Actually make that ANY modern car' date=' built after the advent of digital clocks when an analog clock would simply be a styling point, before the Q45 in 1990.[/quote']

I'm not sure what you mean. 1990 isn't very modern to me.

I mean find me a car with the same type of clock in the same general location built BEFORE Infiniti used the analog clock as their signature interior point in 1990 on the Q45.

You won't find one, because there aren't any. Not only did Infiniti create the fad of installing unneccisary ornamental clocks in the center stacks of cars, its widely accepted among the Automotive press and consumers that this is so.

In fact, if you can find me one vehicle built after digital clock technology was readily availiable (early 80s) and before the Infiniti Q45 was launched in 1990, with an ornamental clock installed centrally on the dashboard as a focal point to the interior, I will PayPal you $50.

[blake918]

The new ES came out in 02 and it was just replaced.

It will be replaced as a 2007 model. 2002-2006 is a typical run, unlike what you are saying the G series will see.

I never said the Q45 was a successful vehicle, in fact I said exactly

The G35 is a hit, the FX is a hit, the M series is a hit, once they revamp the Q they'll have a good lineup.

I'm aware of what you wrote, and I was commenting on your point of Infiniti catering towards a niche market and how much good it does for them.

I mean find me a car with the same type of clock in the same general location built BEFORE Infiniti used the analog clock as their signature interior point in 1990 on the Q45.

You won't find one, because there aren't any. Not only did Infiniti create the fad of installing unneccisary ornamental clocks in the center stacks of cars, its widely accepted among the Automotive press and consumers that this is so.

In fact, if you can find me one vehicle built after digital clock technology was readily availiable (early 80s) and before the Infiniti Q45 was launched in 1990, with an ornamental clock installed centrally on the dashboard as a focal point to the interior, I will PayPal you $50.

I found a car with an analog clock in the center of the dash. It's a BMW 320 (looks like a '79 or '80 model).....

I look forward to hearing how it doesn't fit your specs. LOL There are more BMWs with analog clocks in the center stack for numerous differnet years according to a few parts web sites that I found; I'm not doing anymore searching, I've seen all that I need to

[SW03ES]

That clock is:

-Before the advent of cheap digital clock technology

-Is not ornamental.

-Was never a BMW design trend or a design cue.

What you're looking for is an ORNAMENTAL clock that is designed to be a focal point for the center of the dash, you won't find one because Infiniti was the first company to use an analog clock as the central focus point for their interior. Its their trademark design cue, and you're the first person I've ever heard say thats not the case, and that statement has no basis.

Lexus started the trend of optitron gauges everyone has copied (except BMW, who has stayed true to their own design sense) and Infiniti started the trend of ornamental analog clocks everybody has copied.

If you've given up the search, then I win. ;)

[blake918]

That clock is:

-Before the advent of cheap digital clock technology

You said early 80's. 1980 is early '80's. Disregard this if that BMW is actually older.

-Is not ornamental.

That's your own opinion. Any clock that is in a car's dash is ornimental.

-Was never a BMW design trend or a design cue.

So, who cares? That's not what this spiel is about. It's about whether or not the Q45 is the first post 1980 car to have an analog clock in dash. The precise location of the clock in the Infinit is most irrelevant since it changes depending on the year and model. This is a lot like the Hemi. Did the Mopar guys invent it? No. Do a lot of people think that they did? Yes. Infiniti was not the first to put it in the dash. Did they make it popular so to speak through widespread usage? I can go there.

If you've given up the search, then I win. ;)

Give up? I don't think so. I've found all the pictures and information that I need to see and read, so this is done with from where I'm sitting, and convincing you is really not all that important to me. Now that spring is around the corner, I feel that my spare time would be better spent watching my grass grow than rumaging through Google to find any more pictures that are not going to convince you one way or the other. LOL :) I'm done; I'll hang up and listen....

[SW03ES]

I never said Infiniti was the first to put it in the dash, all I said was that Infiniti was the one that started the styling trend, if you look back through my posts you'll find that ;)

And if you think about it, why would any clock in the center of the dash be ornamental? Its a good place for a clock, so everyone in the car knows what time it is. I believe thats a 70s BMW, but I really don't know much about BMWs.

All I'm saying is that Infiniti started the design trend, and that all the other cars with analog clocks in that location now have them there because of the Infiniti.

[W201 sweden]

Hello guys!

Regarding the clock in the dash; check out the Maseratis! They had a VERY ornamental (think "slightly vulgar") center dash analog clock long before the Infinity.

link: http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/alfieri04.htm

best regards,

Alexander from Sweden

[RFeldes]

UH-OH!!

[nc211]

Rf and I will be hiding in our fox-holes if you need us.....

Me? I think Henry Ford started the trend with the Model T. He wore a watch.....

[Rx330driver]

lol!!! bust!!! lol

[SW03ES]

Good catch, I wouldn't have even thought about the Maseratis. I'm sure this is where Infiniti got the design idea, still its Infiniti that made it mainstream though (Maseratis being relatively rare in the US)

[RFeldes]

Is it safe???

[SW03ES]

Its safe LOL

[Rx330driver]

Rfeldes, i feel like ive seen that picture under your name on the benzworld forums...lol. yes, i know this is a non sequitur

[aahn]

Hey,

I've been reading this thread with interest as a collector

of mechanical watches and the fact that my brother is one

of the few people on EARTH who actually owns the Infiniti

Q45 (2005).

All I can say is that car is just very very wierd. The only

neat thing about it is the gatling gun headlights, other than

that it just seems really outdated. (the clock doesn't even

point the driver...)

As for the LS460 or the S550, the LS460 has my vote. I'm

happy with my '03 SC430 at the moment and am a little too

young to think about big luxury sedans, but if Lexus can

make an EIGHT speed transmission, and make a 4.6 litre

V8 qualify as an ultra low emission vehicle (ULEV), they have

definetely topped the field.

[SW03ES]

No I agree about the Q45, it needs to be replaced in the lineup badly.

[sha4000]

Is it safe???

LOL i wasnt sure either

[CELICA XX]

NEW LS 460 is bad to...heard there is L version where the seats in the back actually recline...wonder how much that will run...