LexKid630 Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 Today i backed into a 2001 Nissan Sentra on my way out to lunch... There's a huge dent in it's front right quarter panel above the wheel well. It was clearly my fault, so we agreed that i would pay for his damage, without any paperwork or insurance :whistles: Unfortunately, the Rx took some damage too. The driver's side corner of the rear bumper is scraped in a few areas. One large area is easiely fixable, only scratches in the clearcoat, but a few other areas are showing the black plastic... I have decided to do a quick touch up now, and wait for spring before i get it repainted by a shop etc; good idea?? When i got home, i lightly sanded and cleaned the large area that only scratched the clear coat, and applied 2 coats of some new clear coat (Dupli color??). I'll wait a few days, then polish it down; i won't notice the difference... For the other areas, i mixed a batch of the gray/blue (perfect match if i do say so myself) and applied a few coats of that with a tooth pic. I'll let that dry a few days and sand it down. Then i'll spray some clear coat over that and wait a few more days, before i polish that down... Three years ago i backed into a pole with my 99 Rx300 and replaced the WHOLE bumper because it was cracked... Do you think i will need to have the whole bumper "replaced" or just re-painted this time? None of the plastic is cracked or anything, just scraped. I did a little sanding to make it look uniform too. Any ideas on what i should do "now" with the touch up job (i only need this to last me till, maybe April)? Also, if i need a whole new bumper, where should i get it? Last time i got it from Lexus and am NOT paying that much for it again! How about, where i should get it painted? The only cars i had painted i took to a body shop in my location, and had good results except on one of them seven years ago...the paint started to peel 3 weeks after it was painted... I'll take some pictures in the morning. What should i do?? Thanks
SW03ES Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 I need pics before I can advise you for sure. Its fine to wait until spring, the bumper is plastic and thus can't rust. As long as the cover isn't torn or creased they can just repaint that cover. Find a body shop that has great references, computerized paint matching, has a neat and tidy shop (that they're proud to show you), and that does a lot of high line cars. If they should need to order you a part, they have sources so just let them order it. Happens to all of us, I did it just two months ago.
LexKid630 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Posted February 2, 2006 I need pics before I can advise you for sure. Its fine to wait until spring, the bumper is plastic and thus can't rust. As long as the cover isn't torn or creased they can just repaint that cover. Find a body shop that has great references, computerized paint matching, has a neat and tidy shop (that they're proud to show you), and that does a lot of high line cars. If they should need to order you a part, they have sources so just let them order it. Happens to all of us, I did it just two months ago. Thanks, i'll take a few pictures in the morning. And since the bumper is a different color than the top of the car, the color doesn't have to be "perfect" Also, when they repaint this, will they paint the WHOLE bumper, or just the corner that has the scrapes on it? I don't want some patch job. Will they strip the paint off or just use it as a primer? Paint stripper would melt the plastic, wouldn't it? Not used to painting plastic bumpers; in the past i've only had to get the metal repainted on cars.
SW03ES Posted February 2, 2006 Posted February 2, 2006 You'd be surprised how bad a poor paint match would look, you definately want to take the time to find the right shop. And a good shop will strip the paint off and repaint the whole bumper. Find a shop you like and trust them ;)
LexKid630 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Posted February 2, 2006 You'd be surprised how bad a poor paint match would look, you definately want to take the time to find the right shop. And a good shop will strip the paint off and repaint the whole bumper. Find a shop you like and trust them ;) Thanks for your help :)
LexKid630 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Posted February 2, 2006 Ughh i'm just going to get it painted in a shop next week. I can't touch up a car
branshew Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 Ughh i'm just going to get it painted in a shop next week. I can't touch up a car The first question any shop will ask you is if your insurance is paying for the repair. Tell them yes (even if its a boldfaced lie) and that your insurance company has already settled with you for the damages. What many people don't know is that body shops can have a different rate structure for insurance claims that is less expensive than than it would be if you just came off the street. Sort of like your health care insurance does w/ the doctors and pharmacies, auto insurance companies have pre-determined rates for parts and labor that can be from 10%-20% less than what you might pay othewise. Do the same thing for the other guy's car that your paying for. Also - I would have him/her sign a waiver agreeing that he/she will not seek any additional damages from you in reference to this accident or how the repair is handled. Make your payment contingent on his/her signing the waiver.
LEXIRX330 Posted February 3, 2006 Posted February 3, 2006 The first question any shop will ask you is if your insurance is paying for the repair. Tell them yes (even if its a boldfaced lie) and that your insurance company has already settled with you for the damages. What many people don't know is that body shops have a different rate structure for insurance claims that is less expensive than than it would be if you just came off the street. Like your health care insurance does w/ the doctors and pharmacies, auto insurance companies have pre-agreed rates for parts and labor that can be from 10%-20% less than what you would pay othewise. Do the same thing for the other guy's car that your paying for. Also - I would have him/her sign a waiver agreeing that he/she will not seek any additional damages from you in reference to this accident or how the repair is handled. Make your payment contingent on his/her signing the waiver. :chairshot: What are you smoking????????? ARE YOU CRAZY!!!! I work for 8 P and C insurance companies in MD, VA, DE... I personally know the owners of about 6 of the largest body shops in the area. Not one of them will give any insurance company a break in price! If you want to get a lower price tell the shop that you are not filing through you insurance and that you will be paying out of pocket and I guarantee they will give you a better price than the insurance company. Why would the shop care about giving an insurance company a break in price, the insured can go to any shop that they want. Cash is the key word...they don't have the headache of dealing with the claims adjuster. The body shop will always give you a higher estimate on damage if the insurance company is paying for it, because the insurance company will beat them up on their price. On your 2nd point that is not a bad idea...but would it hold up in court if the guy got an attorney involved...probably not. Insurance companies spend billions every year trying to settle claims with out paying out BI (bodily injury)...notice all of the attorney ads on TV... It would have to be a legal document...
branshew Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 What are you smoking????????? ARE YOU CRAZY!!!! I work for 8 P and C insurance companies in MD, VA, DE... I personally know the owners of about 6 of the largest body shops in the area. Not one of them will give any insurance company a break in price! If you want to get a lower price tell the shop that you are not filing through you insurance and that you will be paying out of pocket and I guarantee they will give you a better price than the insurance company. Why would the shop care about giving an insurance company a break in price, the insured can go to any shop that they want. Cash is the key word...they don't have the headache of dealing with the claims adjuster. The body shop will always give you a higher estimate on damage if the insurance company is paying for it, because the insurance company will beat them up on their price. I think you mis-interpreted what I was saying If you look at what I said in my post - I told him to tell the body shop that he had already settled the claim with his insurance company. My sister in law works as an adjustor for GEICO, and I have unfortunately been the recipient of several new bumpers in my time so I've been through the process enough to know how it works. Many insurance companies often have adjustors stationed at local body shops in the area where you can take your car to have it looked at, but you don't have to get it fixed there. These days many insurance companies will send out an adjustor to review the damage and they will cut a check straight to the individual. At that point it's up to you to find a body shop and get the repair done. This is what has happened to me the last 3 times someone has hit me. Insurance companies use pre-determined costs for all parts and labor that are considered standard across the industry (insurance & collision repair). Labor may be adjusted depending on the market. Allstate, State Farm, GEICO, USAA, etc will all pay the same amount for a bumper replacement and repaint job in the same city. If you indicate that you have settled it with the insurance company then the body shop knows that you have a good idea what the repair should cost you. I'm not saying that they are going to give you or the insurance company a discount, but that they are less likely to try and tack on that extra percentage that they may try to hit you with otherwise. I'm not saying they'll give you a break on the price, but that you are less likely to be the recipient of an inflated price if they think that you know what the cost should be in advance.
LEXIRX330 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 :whistles: Not trying to argue with you at all...maybe I did misunderstand you. I deal with this everyday!!! I do not work for 1 company we represent 8 Auto insurance companies... So ask your sister if the body shop is going to fix the vehicle with the check for that exact figure that she gives someone. The answer is no. They won't fix it for that price. The body shop will be higher than the insurance companies adjuster 9 out of 10 times... The body shop will have the company re open the claim and collect any additional expenses thereafter. How does your sister determine all damage??? she can't she is doing an estimate is she taking the car apart? All companies have figures that they should be charged to fix say a bumper...but they are not the same as the body shop...this is the reason that companies have pro shops, blue ribbon shops, etc. these body shops are working with the insurance companies and the work is guaranteed by the insurance company not the body shop... Do what ever you guys want, but I'm telling you if ask how much it will cost to fix out of pocket you will get a lower price. Tell the body shop that you do not want to file a claim on your insurance policy and that you want to pay out of pocket. Or you can try telling them that you have already got a check from your insurance company for the damage...and the next thing they will want is the CLAIM # or your policy #.
SW03ES Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Actually every body shop I've ever had experience with when insurance is involved winds up reducing the charge for the insurance company and charging them less than they would a striaght cash customer. Doctors do the same thing, to avoid the hassle and make sure they keep getting referrals and more importantly just to get paid from the insurance company. I had a body shop accept a payment $300 less than their bill from the insurance company once.
LEXIRX330 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Well you guys keep thinking that... Auto insurance companies will pay more for the same service than you will if you are paying cash...we have a lady that works in our office as an insurance agent and she just backed into a pole. She paid out of pocket telling them that she was going to pay cash...why...because it is cheaper...I have seen quotes by body shops that have come back with parts that are not even damaged that they want to replace...the insurance company may catch them, and if they do they will dispute it... MAY...if the insurance company is paying they don't care... HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ACCEPTED SW03ES? You have no idea. You can give them the check from the insurance company that does not mean that is all that is paid out!!! The body shop can easily pick up the phone contact a rep from the insurance company and get another additional check cut for the additional damages. """"Doctors do the same thing, to avoid the hassle and make sure they keep getting referrals and more importantly just to get paid from the insurance company."""" I AM NOT SURE THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! Yes Doctors get paid from the insurance company, and if it is a HMO there is an agreed upon price. Most DR limit the amount of Patients that they will accept that are HMO's not PPO because of this. The PPO can be charged whatever the DR determines is the cost for that procedure. A HMO is only going to pay what they are going to pay. Let's say you are a DR would you want more HMO patients, or PPO???? LET ME THINK...Maybe you should see what is happening to the health care system in this country before you post such a stupid comment.
SW03ES Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 LOL, because I was there when they were trying to get the insurance company to cover the rest of the repair and the guy told me they were just going to take what they were offering and that I wouldn't have to pay anything out of pocket. There weren't additional damages the insurance company just wanted to pay them less for the damages they both agreed were there. He said they do that all the time, and I've heard the same thing from 3 or 4 other boy shops in the area. Did they all lie to me? Why would they do that. Yes Doctors get paid from the insurance company, and if it is a HMO there is an agreed upon price. Most DR limit the amount of Patients that they will accept that are HMO's not PPO because of this. The PPO can be charged whatever the DR determines is the cost for that procedure. A HMO is only going to pay what they are going to pay. Let's say you are a DR would you want more HMO patients, or PPO???? LET ME THINK...Maybe you should see what is happening to the health care system in this country before you post such a stupid comment. Totally wrong. My mother owns a Insurance Claims Filing and Practice Management company. She contracts with doctors to manage all of their incoming insurance payments, file all their claims, etc. I spent several years selling her services to doctors offices. Insurance companies absolutely don't pay whatever the doctor asks for PPO plans. Do you know what a PPO plan is? You're in a provider network. All the doctors in the network agree to accept WHATEVER THE INSURANCE COMPANY WANTS TO PAY THEM for their services. The plans also usually pay out of network benefits to doctors that aren't in the provider network, oftentimes thes doctors wind up making MORE (the patient also has to pay and they wind up paying more) than if they're in the network and many of my mother's clients have opted out of a lot of the PPO networks because they wind up making more money. And as for your bottom line: Maybe you should see what is happening to the health care system in this country before you post such a stupid comment Maybe you should read the site's posting rules before you go trying to make a discussion personal and start a flamewar or maybe you should find another Lexus forum to join. Do that again and I'm going to put a warning on your account. Come back to this discussion calmly and participate in it like an adult or just stop posting in it.
LEXIRX330 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 The question is do you? What is the difference between the PPO and a HMO tell me... Why pay the higher price for a PPO Preferred provider...why not just have a HMO... You want to put a warning on my account, because your management....wow nice to know that you can post what you want even if it is not right and unless we are management...we can't I did not personally attack you...I said your comment was stupid....
SW03ES Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Saying my comment is stupid is an invitation to escalate this exchange. Read the rules. If I was incorrect then correct me, politely and respectfully. Throughout this whole exchange you've been high and mighty unwilling to accept that we may have at least some iota of an idea what we're talking about. If you can't have a discussion on this site respectfully, then you need to find another site. As for the difference between a PPO and an HMO. An HMO stands for Health Management Organization. You select a primary care physician from the network and they become the first rung of your care network and have to approve all escalations above them to specialists etc. You can ONLY go to doctors within the network. PPO Stands for Preferred Provider Organization. In a PPO you don't need to get a referral from a primary physician to see a specialist and you can go outside of network if you wish with certain other costs. There's no difference in how the plans pay physicians or how physicians can charge for their services. The differences in the amount that they get paid depends on the company, and some HMOs pay better than some PPOs but both get to decide what they are willing to pay doctors who have contracted with them to be within their network. As a patient I would select a PPO because of the freedom it gives you, or I may select an HMO if I were young and healthy. As a doctor I would look more at the company providing the healthcare than I would what plans to accept. Actually a lot of times you agree to be a provider for a certain company, and as a provider you get HMO and PPO patients. Does that seem satisfactory?
LEXIRX330 Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 This seems like a *BLEEP*ing contest. If someone disagrees with you then they need to find a new site...man... :whistles: Why am I the one that seem like I am trying to act high and mighty? I don't agree with you and I am not rude to you and I really could careless about your comments to me.... You guys do what you want.... "Specialist and you can go outside of network if you wish with certain other costs" This means that they charge more! LOL, because I was there when they were trying to get the insurance company to cover the rest of the repair and the guy told me they were just going to take what they were offering and that I wouldn't have to pay anything out of pocket. There weren't additional damages the insurance company just wanted to pay them less for the damages they both agreed were there. He said they do that all the time, and I've heard the same thing from 3 or 4 other boy shops in the area. Guess this means that they were trying to charge more too! The fact that they did not charge you more doesn't mean that they won't from anyone else...and the point that they tried to get more money proves what I have been saying!
SW03ES Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 I don't care if you disagree with me or not, I do care if you call me or others stupid because they disagree with you I'm perfectly willing to discuss this topic with you, I was enjoying our discussion actually. If you can't have a discussion with out getting all butt-hurt because someone disagrees with you and lashing out with rediculous large type, asking people if they're smoking something, and calling people's comments stupid, then you're not welcome here. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me. As for not rude, you've been nothing but rude and arrogant about this whole topic. You started right in on Branshew that way by screaming "What are you smoking?" at him instead of just disagreeing and discussing the topic with him. Its just insurance, you need to take three deep breaths before you talk about it i think. "Specialist and you can go outside of network if you wish with certain other costs"This means that they charge more! How? If you're a physician and you particpate in Alliance (for example) when you contract with them you agree to accept their payment schedule. That payment schedule is the same regardless of which insurance plan (HMO or PPO) you choose from within Alliance. The differences between the two apply only to the patient, not the doctor. If the patient has a PPO plan then they can go out of network and see any doctor they wish, the insurance company will pay them whatever they think is fair and then the doctor bills the patient for the rest. If the doctor participates in the PPO or HMO then they CANNOT EVER bill the paitient for more than the PPO has elected to pay. This is why a lot of doctors are dropping these insurance companies, billing their patients, and then letting their patients recoup whatever they can. THATS how doctors make more off of patients with PPO plans, not because the insurance company pays them more. That make sense? Guess this means that they were trying to charge more too! The fact that they did not charge you more doesn't mean that they won't from anyone else...and the point that they tried to get more money proves what I have been saying! Why would they not charge me and charge someone else? I wasn't a repeat customer or anything like that. How does that prove what you're saying? They tried to get more money from the insurance company, they refused, and the bodyshop reduced their fee to whatever the insurance company would pay. That proves what I'M saying.
branshew Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 I deal with this everyday!!! I do not work for 1 company we represent 8 Auto insurance companies... You said it yourself - you represent 8 companies. You're not a cliams adjustor and you don't directly work for any of the companies. How does your sister determine all damage??? she can't she is doing an estimate is she taking the car apart? (It's my sister-in-law, but that's bedsides the point.) You're blowing this way out of proportion. LexKid got a small scratch on his bumper. They aren't going to have to tear apart the rear end and fix a bunch of internal components. These body shops are working with the insurance companies and the work is guaranteed by the insurance company not the body shop... Actually most body shops guarantee their work. Why would anyone want to go to one that will not stand behind their finished product? The insurance company is also there to stand behind it. Man - I knew this would get out of hand based on LEXIRX330's first reply. SW I'm with you. Probably time to lock this one down.
SW03ES Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Naa we're fine for now. If he can discuss this maturely this could be an informative discussion.
branshew Posted February 4, 2006 Posted February 4, 2006 Guess this means that they were trying to charge more too! The fact that they did not charge you more doesn't mean that they won't from anyone else...and the point that they tried to get more money proves what I have been saying! It also proves what I've been saying which is that the body shop knows what insurance companies are willing to pay and will fix the repair for that amount. They will try to milk you for more, but if your firm with them or tell them to take it or leave it like the insurance companies do then they are more likely to take it. We're talking about a bumper scratch here. It's something completely different if it was a huge front end collision where there may be more internal damage that is discovered once you start taking the car apart.
LEXIRX330 Posted February 5, 2006 Posted February 5, 2006 OK first I’m sorry if my comments offended anybody. Should not have said WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING, I was not trying to be rude, or arrogant. I really am not trying to make this in to a big ordeal. Steve- you are correct on the fact that the network has set prices for HMO’s and PPO’s. But if you are in a PPO and go out of the network they do not, this means additional money for you and for the insurance company. I would be glad to talk about health insurance if you would like to discuss that further but this is not what we had started talking about here. I was busy when I even replied back with the health comment and should not even have started that discussion on a car form. I did not call you stupid, but the comment that was made about health insurance…I thought was, (sorry again)…you must realize how hard it is for employers and individuals to afford health insurance because of the way the system is being abused… Branshaw- The fact that a shop stands behind the work is not the same as the insurance company standing behind the work…I find that it is a big difference. Yes I work with 8 different companies and talk to different claims reps, adjusters, body shops, and most importantly insureds…I think I might know a little bit about this…Not saying that you guys have not had different experiences. If I insurance company gives you a check most of the time the insurance company is contacted to pay additional expenses. Rarely does a claim rep cut a check for the exact amount that the body shop will do the repairs… IF LEXKID went to a body shop and told them that the claim was settled with the insurance company they would ask who the company was and how much they had allowed for the expense…what is he supposed to say….they give him a estimate that I think he would get lower if he paid cash…I have 5 people a week that the same thing happens with and it is always lower if they pay cash… I did not join this form to argue and as I said sorry if I offended anyone… IT IS JUST A Scratch is right….
SW03ES Posted February 5, 2006 Posted February 5, 2006 I did not call you stupid, but the comment that was made about health insurance…I thought was, (sorry again)…you must realize how hard it is for employers and individuals to afford health insurance because of the way the system is being abused… And why is that my fault? I have to afford health insurance just like everyone else. I also fail to understand how anything I said contributes to the cost of health insurance? Steve- you are correct on the fact that the network has set prices for HMO’s and PPO’s. But if you are in a PPO and go out of the network they do not, this means additional money for you and for the insurance company. Which is exactly what I was saying. You said " why would a doctor choose an HMO plan instead of a PPO plan" which doesn't make any sense, the doctor doesn't choose what plans he participates in, he either participates in the insurance company or he doesn't. If he doesn't participate in the network then he can only be paid for PPO or otherwise insured individuals, and sometimes yes the insurance company winds up paying them more than they pay their in network doctors. This is precisely why a doctor would want to stop participating in insurance networks althogether. Thanks for apologizing, no harm done.
sha4000 Posted February 6, 2006 Posted February 6, 2006 lets get back on topic fellas, ive had experiences with bodyshops that would support both sides of this debate. but i will say that if the shop knows you are paying for repairs out of pocket they dont try to tack on all the unnecessary b.s. that you dont really need to do b/c they know your finances are limited. the most important thing is to just be informed about what it is you are trying to do and that way you wont get jacked up on the price
LexKid630 Posted February 6, 2006 Author Posted February 6, 2006 When looking for a new body shop, is there anything that i should look for, like lifetime warranties etc? I'm not "that" worried about the price, i just don't want to be stuck three years down the road with the thing pealing again..then i'm screwed. I want it done right, or the knowledge that if it does peal i can just take it back to them. Is the warranty worth it? Is speding a little extra for a lifetime warranty worth it? The last body shop i have been to didn't offer any warranty, and i didn't like their work; i'm switching... thanks
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