12000k Hid Lights

[luv2LEXLR8]

ive gotten mixed reviews on certain HID lights and ive heard different things about which are better. anyone have advice? im looking at 12000k HELIOS for the lows and 4000k for the fogs or maybe vice versa not sure. But i want the purple cause my gs is spectra blue.

[TurboGS300]

12000k is only for color, anything above 6000k is prettty much useless for any real benefit. <_<

[SW03ES]

The optimum light output is 4100k, the stock color. Anything higher than that is sacrificing light output for color, and 12000k probably puts out less light than halogen as the bulbs are painted to get that color.

[SKperformance]

12000k is just to emulate the cut off or the edge of otehr projectors which create the purplish colour.

They look nice but provide no light .

[luv2LEXLR8]

12000k is just to emulate the cut off or the edge of otehr projectors which create the purplish colour.

They look nice but provide no light .

←

thanks for the input. I dont think SWO is right though, the bulbs are not painted. Xenon gas can release different colors of the spectrum based on how excited the molecules are or mixed with other gases to create the color. you are right in the intensity of light though and its not that there is less output of light its that the human eye sees white light better than purple or blue light. SK do u have aftermarket HID's if so do u have pics. maybe ill do the fogs in 12000k and the low beams in white for optimum vision.

[sha4000]

i think i read somewhere that puttind HIDs in the fogs was defeating ythe purpose of having fog lights. is that true?

[luv2LEXLR8]

i think i read somewhere that puttind HIDs in the fogs was defeating ythe purpose of having fog lights. is that true?

←

why would it defeat the purpose. HID's create more light than halogens. fog lights are pointed more towards the ground to better light the ground directly in front of u and also to avoid reflection off the fog.

[SKperformance]

No SW is right.

Any bulb over10 000k and even some 8000k ones have to be painted blue as the arc cannot be snuffed enough to create the blue spark.

Only 4000-6000 are clear lenses using the arc to create the differences.

And yes hid's do defeat foglights as they over power them.

They also are highly reflective causing poor weather driving to be worse because the water reflects back more at the driver.

You need yellow fogs when ever you have HID's in order to cut the spectrum in those situations.

[luv2LEXLR8]

No SW is right.

Any bulb over10 000k and even some 8000k ones have to be painted blue as the arc cannot be snuffed enough to create the blue spark.

Only 4000-6000 are clear lenses using the arc to create the differences.

And yes hid's do defeat foglights as they over power them.

They also are highly reflective causing poor weather driving to be worse because the water reflects back more at the driver.

You need yellow fogs when ever you have HID's in order to cut the spectrum in those situations.

←

but they're not rain lights they're fog lights any light will reflect off of water on the ground and my friend has 12000k HID's and they're not painted. not that 12000k bulbs really exsist the temps really dont go much higher than 6500k

[SKperformance]

Luv2 lex , i am sorry but you don;t know what you are talking about when it comes to HID's.

Fog and rain are the same thing ,the difference is fog is a fine mist causing a denser visual while rain is moisture in larger droplets which gravity pulls to the ground causing the ground to be reflective .

If your friend has 12000k colour temp bulbs they will have to be painted blue. If they are not then they are a lower range of 4000-8000k.

The colour temp is not an actual heat calculation but it is just a way to rate the actual colour of the bulb. You do not even need HID's to get the colour you want. HID's are for getting a higher lumen's or candle power output from a bulb. It is used to rate or scale the actual amount of light output at a set distance.

A natural halogen filament bulb will and cannot reach above 3500k without a coating to alter the light produced .

By adding a coating you reduce the actual light output but attain the colour temp you want.

Now why would your friend not have a 12000k bulb that has no coating ?

Well because if it had no coating then the bulb would be so dim you would hardly even see any light from it. Remember a HID bulb is like a spark plug so the more power you get to skip over the gap the brighter the output in lumen's is . If you lower the power across the gap you get a more blue light with a lower lumen output.

[luv2LEXLR8]

Luv2 lex , i am sorry but you don;t know what you are talking about when it comes to HID's.

Fog and rain are the same thing ,the difference is fog is a fine mist causing a denser visual while rain is moisture in larger droplets which gravity pulls to the ground causing the ground to be reflective .

If your friend has 12000k colour temp bulbs they will have to be painted blue. If they are not then they are a lower range of 4000-8000k.

The colour temp is not an actual heat calculation but it is just a way to rate the actual colour of the bulb. You do not even need HID's to get the colour you want. HID's are for getting a higher lumen's or candle power output from a bulb. It is used to rate or scale the actual amount of light output at a set distance.

A natural halogen filament bulb will and cannot reach above 3500k without a coating to alter the light produced .

By adding a coating you reduce the actual light output but attain the colour temp you want.

Now why would your friend not have a 12000k bulb that has no coating ?

Well because if it had no coating then the bulb would be so dim you would hardly even see any light from it. Remember a HID bulb is like a spark plug  so the more power you get to skip over the gap the brighter the output in lumen's is . If you lower the power across the gap you get a more blue light with a lower lumen output.

←

first of all i have a biology degree so dont preach to me. Youre wrong rain and fog are not the same thing. They are made from the same thing(water) but ones a gas and the others a liquid hence the fact one is called rain and one is called fog. Fog does not sit on the ground and rain does. that is why fog lights work because they light up the ground below the fog for better sight directly in front of you. Ther is no light that doesn't reflect off of rain or fog that is why the light is directed under the fog. You cant direct light under rain. As for the HID's i understand what ur saying im not disagreeing with u all I said was that my friends werent painted. I only brought this topic up for peoples opinion on what HID's to get not an education about something I can learn on an HID website. I want opinions from people who have low temp bulbs and people with high temp bulbs so I can make a decision. I understand how they work. My apologies if you misunderstood me SK. Also some xenon lights have mercury in them which produce a purple light without having to paint them. Ive gotten your opinion already and I appreciate it so the process of how HID's work is no longer necessary.

[SKperformance]

no worries.

I have never heard of any HID bulb using mercury as it would stay in a liquid form not a vapour.

I have 4 sets of HID's on my 3 cars. 3 of them are retro kits one oem.

I have 4300k , 6000k and a 8000k kit.

Of all of them i like the look of the 8000k kit but the light output is much lower than the 6000k which to me provides max output and temp colour.

[SW03ES]

You have a biology degree...and that has what to do with your knowledge of the electrical systems or the science of how the human brain percieves and processes different wavelegnths of light as they bounce off of rain droplets vs particles of fog?

If we need to know how a frog is put together we'll give you a call, your degree however gives you no place to be telling SK or anyone else that they shouldn't correct you about how HID lighting works.

For one thing, you're still wrong.

Read:

http://members.misty.com/don/d2.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question387.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?p.../xenon_faq.html

http://www.tbyrne.com/hids/hids.html

An exerpt from this one:

A perfect example would be a black light. This light has a color temperature of approx 12,000k and has almost no useable light or lumens output. Higher K kits such as 7000k, 7500k, etc. have been manufactured for individuals that are more concerned about the actual color output of their lights as opposed to the actual useable light output they produce.

Information about 8000k+ and coating of bulbs:

http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

An exerpt:

One trick these HID con artists use is to market their HID kit as "German Philips 8000K HID kit". When I inspect these advertisements closely, what they are in fact doing is selling you a real Philips ballast, but some cheesy, generic, unlabelled 8000K HID bulb. But what it sounds like is that you're getting genuine Philips 8000K bulbs. Not the case. Many of these 8000K bulbs aren't really even producing 8000K light internally. I've seen 5000K, 7000K, and 8000K HID bulbs with blue films coated over the bulb, which act to filter out all light produced except blue and purple. This in effect dims your light output substantially.

So, saying you have a biology degree so you understand the engineering, physics, and chemistry of HID lighting and the effect it has on the brain's ability to percieve its surroundings seems to be just as rediculous as me saying since I have a psychology degree I'm equipped to go teach a symposium on nuclear physics.

[luv2LEXLR8]

You have a biology degree...and that has what to do with your knowledge of the electrical systems or the science of how the human brain percieves and processes different wavelegnths of light as they bounce off of rain droplets vs particles of fog?

If we need to know how a frog is put together we'll give you a call, your degree however gives you no place to be telling SK or anyone else that they shouldn't correct you about how HID lighting works.

For one thing, you're still wrong.

Read:

http://members.misty.com/don/d2.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question387.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?p.../xenon_faq.html

http://www.tbyrne.com/hids/hids.html

An exerpt from this one:

A perfect example would be a black light. This light has a color temperature of approx 12,000k and has almost no useable light or lumens output. Higher K kits such as 7000k, 7500k, etc. have been manufactured for individuals that are more concerned about the actual color output of their lights as opposed to the actual useable light output they produce.

Information about 8000k+ and coating of bulbs:

http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

An exerpt:

One trick these HID con artists use is to market their HID kit as "German Philips 8000K HID kit". When I inspect these advertisements closely, what they are in fact doing is selling you a real Philips ballast, but some cheesy, generic, unlabelled 8000K HID bulb. But what it sounds like is that you're getting genuine Philips 8000K bulbs. Not the case. Many of these 8000K bulbs aren't really even producing 8000K light internally. I've seen 5000K, 7000K, and 8000K HID bulbs with blue films coated over the bulb, which act to filter out all light produced except blue and purple. This in effect dims your light output substantially.

So, saying you have a biology degree so you understand the engineering, physics, and chemistry of HID lighting and the effect it has on the brain's ability to percieve its surroundings seems to be just as rediculous as me saying since I have a psychology degree I'm equipped to go teach a symposium on nuclear physics.

←

[/quo

First of all thank you Sk for your serious input and your hands on description of your lighting system. It will be helpful in my decision. As for SWO who just wants to argue about nothing. In having a biology degree i've gotten a masters in science including Physics, chemistry, and organic chemistry. So dont question my knowledge. Yes some xenon light bulbs have mercury GAS in them to change the color. That is why they need to be disposed of as toxic similar to flouresent light bulbs. So go back to ur high school text books and keep reading up on real science instead of quoting me stupid web pages. Like I said before all I wanted was input from people who had aftermarket HID systems and what they're opinion was. This is a lexus forum not a science forum. You may have a lexus but I don't expect to see u on a science forum anytime soon. Keep your day job.

What is mercury?

Mercury is a naturally occurring metal which has several forms. The metallic mercury is a shiny, silver-white, odorless liquid. If heated, it is a colorless, odorless gas.

[SKperformance]

Does mercury not need to be kept under pressure to keep it in a vapour form? Also if it is a liquid which under start up would jolt it enough to form a vapour to give the effect i wounder how much pressure the gas would cause?

I am asking as i have no idea just a thought.

The other thing hat i know is Phillips does not make any bulbs with mercury added. It would only be in the aftermarket which i would stay away from. there are many kits on the market and if it is not a rebased bulb to fit a Phillips patented base i would not buy it. Of the many other kits available they are made in Asia and are very low quality. Most people change bulbs yearly with them as well as ballasts.

Phillips has the only patent, you will see Hella branded ballasts which are the same rebranded Phillips ones.

They also have about 6 different gens or styles also.

The best kit to me for durability is the gen 3 ballasts with 6000k bulbs .

[bartkat]

FYI: Fog is not a gas.

[luv2LEXLR8]

Does mercury not need to be kept under pressure to keep it in a vapour form? Also if it is a liquid which under start up would jolt it enough to form a vapour to give the effect i wounder how much pressure the gas would cause?

I am asking as i have no idea just a thought.

The other thing hat i know is Phillips does not make any bulbs with mercury added. It would only be in the aftermarket which i would stay away from. there are many kits on the market and if it is not a rebased bulb to fit a Phillips patented base i would not buy it. Of the many other kits available they are made in Asia and are very low quality. Most people change bulbs yearly with them as well as ballasts.

Phillips has the only patent, you will see Hella branded ballasts which are the same rebranded Phillips ones.

They also have about 6 different gens or styles also.

The best kit to me for durability is the gen 3 ballasts with 6000k bulbs .

←

Thanks, SK u seem to be the only one with real input. I don't know which bulbs have mercury some do and some don't. It may not even be bulbs for HID systems. It was just a possibility that i suggested. Even though someone earlier in the forum suggested that HID's are worse for fog lights do u think that putting the 12000k in the fogs would be just like halogens since they have the same light output because i want the color for the look but u have me convinced on the 4100k bulbs for the headlights. What im asking is if the 12000k in the fogs would be just as optimal as the stock halogens. i know they wont be as good as the yellow fogs though.

[luv2LEXLR8]

FYI:    Fog is not a gas.

←

FYI:H2O naturally comes in all three states of matter---Solid, liquid and of course Gas.

Water takes many forms. The solid state of water is known as ice; the gaseous state is known as water vapor (or steam). Water has many other forms, such as vitreous ice, a noncrystalline (glassy), solid state of water.

Check out this site to find out your wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29

[bartkat]

FYI:    Fog is not a gas.

←

FYI:H2O naturally comes in all three states of matter---Solid, liquid and of course Gas.

Water takes many forms. The solid state of water is known as ice; the gaseous state is known as water vapor (or steam). Water has many other forms, such as vitreous ice, a noncrystalline (glassy), solid state of water.

Check out this site to find out your wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29

←

Did you mean to say "you're"?

Fog is condensed droplets of water, suspended in air. Very similar to a cloud only at ground level. You cannot see vapor, only the condensate. Your quote mentions absolutely nothing about fog, BTW.

Now, back to topic.

[SKperformance]

12000k have almost no reflectivity so they look nice but have no output that the naked eye can use.

It would be cheaper to buy a blue fog light rather than waste a good set of HID's with that high output.

I have said it many times , fogs are a waste if they are halogen or HID based. I have a set of catz that cost me over $500 and they are btter than most out there. In real fog they are still useless no matter who makes them.

I have oem benz bulbs rebased which are xenarcs which have a slightly more white/blue colour compared to the more yellow 4300 oem d2r or d2s.

If you want a colour then 12000 will work .

If you want improved vision then get 8000 which have a nice contrast.

If you use halogens it will be blue but not the peicing purple that you get from a cutoff line of a nice projector lens. As no halogen can produce enough output to make anythign but a glow in that colour range.

Best bet is to get a set of mini projectors with the sharp cutoff and retro a whole housing to your existing ones. It will give you the 12000 colour from every angle except head on. This would also give you max additional lighting goign forward also.

If you keep your 4300 bulbs in the oem housing you are going to find they look old and yellow real quick with the contrast of a different K value.

[luv2LEXLR8]

FYI:    Fog is not a gas.

←

FYI:H2O naturally comes in all three states of matter---Solid, liquid and of course Gas.

Water takes many forms. The solid state of water is known as ice; the gaseous state is known as water vapor (or steam). Water has many other forms, such as vitreous ice, a noncrystalline (glassy), solid state of water.

Check out this site to find out your wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29

←

Did you mean to say "you're"?

Fog is condensed droplets of water, suspended in air. Very similar to a cloud only at ground level. You cannot see vapor, only the condensate. Your quote mentions absolutely nothing about fog, BTW.

Now, back to topic.

←

Once again u are wrong fog is not condensed water droplets. The molecules are actually more spread out in water's gaseous state or fog ,clouds whatever u want to call it. You are right u can not see water vapor but clouds and fog are made up of about 80% water vapor which in turn is causing the water droplets iside the vapor due to temperature change in the atmosphere. These droplets reflect light which is the only reason you can see fog or water vapor. Keep studying. You were almost right

[bartkat]

FYI:    Fog is not a gas.

←

FYI:H2O naturally comes in all three states of matter---Solid, liquid and of course Gas.

Water takes many forms. The solid state of water is known as ice; the gaseous state is known as water vapor (or steam). Water has many other forms, such as vitreous ice, a noncrystalline (glassy), solid state of water.

Check out this site to find out your wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29

←

Did you mean to say "you're"?

Fog is condensed droplets of water, suspended in air. Very similar to a cloud only at ground level. You cannot see vapor, only the condensate. Your quote mentions absolutely nothing about fog, BTW.

Now, back to topic.

←

Once again u are wrong fog is not condensed water droplets. The molecules are actually more spread out in water's gaseous state or fog ,clouds whatever u want to call it. You are right u can not see water vapor but clouds and fog are made up of about 80% water vapor which in turn is causing the water droplets iside the vapor due to temperature change in the atmosphere. These droplets reflect light which is the only reason you can see fog or water vapor. Keep studying. You were almost right

←

Wrong again, Einstein.

Water droplets are not a gas. Reading your genius posts is a gas though.

[TurboGS300]

FYI:    Fog is not a gas.

←

FYI:H2O naturally comes in all three states of matter---Solid, liquid and of course Gas.

Water takes many forms. The solid state of water is known as ice; the gaseous state is known as water vapor (or steam). Water has many other forms, such as vitreous ice, a noncrystalline (glassy), solid state of water.

Check out this site to find out your wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_%28molecule%29

←

Did you mean to say "you're"?

Fog is condensed droplets of water, suspended in air. Very similar to a cloud only at ground level. You cannot see vapor, only the condensate. Your quote mentions absolutely nothing about fog, BTW.

Now, back to topic.

←

Once again u are wrong fog is not condensed water droplets. The molecules are actually more spread out in water's gaseous state or fog ,clouds whatever u want to call it. You are right u can not see water vapor but clouds and fog are made up of about 80% water vapor which in turn is causing the water droplets iside the vapor due to temperature change in the atmosphere. These droplets reflect light which is the only reason you can see fog or water vapor. Keep studying. You were almost right

←

YOU ARE WRONG in saying BARTKAT is WRONG, He may not have said it "technically" perfect, however he is still righ!GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND GET A 5 YEAR DEGREE!! fog happens when water vapor REACHES IT'S DEW POINT and WATER CONDENSES out of the vapor.! GOT IT! <_<

[TurboGS300]

Luv2 lex , i am sorry but you don;t know what you are talking about when it comes to HID's.

Fog and rain are the same thing ,the difference is fog is a fine mist causing a denser visual while rain is moisture in larger droplets which gravity pulls to the ground causing the ground to be reflective .

If your friend has 12000k colour temp bulbs they will have to be painted blue. If they are not then they are a lower range of 4000-8000k.

The colour temp is not an actual heat calculation but it is just a way to rate the actual colour of the bulb. You do not even need HID's to get the colour you want. HID's are for getting a higher lumen's or candle power output from a bulb. It is used to rate or scale the actual amount of light output at a set distance.

A natural halogen filament bulb will and cannot reach above 3500k without a coating to alter the light produced .

By adding a coating you reduce the actual light output but attain the colour temp you want.

Now why would your friend not have a 12000k bulb that has no coating ?

Well because if it had no coating then the bulb would be so dim you would hardly even see any light from it. Remember a HID bulb is like a spark plug  so the more power you get to skip over the gap the brighter the output in lumen's is . If you lower the power across the gap you get a more blue light with a lower lumen output.

←

first of all i have a biology degree so don't preach to me. Fog does not sit on the ground and rain does. .

←

WRONG EINSTEIN!!! Fog can sit on the ground, guess your biology degree never encountered radiation fog.

[bartkat]

Dew point, yeah, that's it. Thanks Turbo.