Ot Need An Suv 97 Lx450 Or 99 Sub

[agc]

Guys I need your help.

My wife and I decided that we should get a used SUV for the winter and also for doing the Home Depot run, she doesn't like using her Odyssey. We narrowed down our choices to a 96-97 Lexus LX450 (70k) and a 99 Chevy Suburban LT (44k), both can be had for about $13k. I have never oned a Suburban, but have always wanted one and I have a Lexus LS400 that I used daily and love it. Now IO know gas prices are very high right now, but with the amount of use we will have it should be ok. Also my wife commutes with my two boys everyday, I feel much better if she is in a fullsize SUV during those bad days. So my question to you guys is, which one should I get, if I go American I get a newer lower mileage vehicle than if I go for a Import.

What do you guys think

Thanks and soon to add to my list

[Dust]

You came to the right place. I suggest you to definitely get the Lexus. I know NY has been through a lot, and everything is expensive here...but safety comes first. I understand your situation and I think the Lexus SUV LX series especially is built not only strong but also smooth and luxurious. American cars will of course save you gas, but I guarantee you, they dont offer you what Lexus does. If you have more info on the car : mileage, pictures, past history and the price range, dont be afraid to share it with us.

This is the information I found to be most useful for the LX450 1996-1997

Fuel Type

Regular

MPG (city)

13

MPG (highway)

15

MPG (combined)

14

CONS

The LX450 is missing some of the creature comforts available on most modern SUV's. Although it was an option, most of them don't come with heated seats. They don't have the modern navigation systems. They don't have a compass or outside temperature reading. In addition, it only comes with one cupholder.....very odd. There is a slot over the radio where an additional cup holder can be added and you will need it. The cupholder can be purchased from www.sleeoffroad.com (no affiliation, etc.).

The LX450's motor is a little underpowered by current standards. 212hp and 275 ft/lbs or torque is what you get from this 4.5 liter straight six. It's not bad, but certainly less than most of its modern competition.

PROS

This thing is built like a tank. It will require more standard maintenance than most, but if it is well taken care of, Toyota/Lexus designed the vehicle to go for 300,000 miles before needing major work/overhauls. You'll feel like this is the most dependable thing you've driven.

If you actually take your SUV off road, you will not be disappointed with the LX450. It is more capable than probably 90% of other SUV's in its class. If it comes with factory lockers, that probably goes to 98%.

Nick

[agc]

Dust,

Thanks, I feel the same way about Lexus, I just bought a 2000 LS400 with 33k miles back in Feb/Mar and have put over 7k miles on it. I love the car, it has a great ride and is very economical for an 8cyl car. The LS400 is my first Lexus and I love it, I just don't know much about theoir SUV. Again I just want something safe, realiable and confortable.

[Dust]

No problem. You might wanna refresh my reply again. I edited a little. :)

[blake918]

We have a white 99 Suburban LT with just over 106k miles. We bought it with 12 miles on the odo. The truck has had some problems, but it's usefulness outweighs it. We've pretty much taken this truck to hell and back, and it's done ok....it's traveled a large portion of the country, been hit countless times, had 3 teenagers learn to drive in it, and towed its fair share of trailers. At 60k, the transmission died. The dealer said it's fairly common since they had another 'Burbin there for the same repair. I don't know if it was from the lack of service since we never once changed the fluid. Other than that, it's eaten an alternator or two, some water pumps, and that's about all I can remember for now. It's important to remember that changing a water pump or alternator on a Suburban takes no time at all, and the parts are small, small fractions of the cost of Lexus parts. Lexus needs to take some serious notes on the layout of the drain plug and oil filter location since the Suburban is by far the easiest car to change the oil and filter in...both are on 90deg angles (what a treat compared to whats in the LS).

The ride is pretty cushy, and handling is ponderous with a lot of body roll. They actually turn pretty tight, but the length of the vehicle is what makes parking a nightmare. For only having something like 255hp, these 3ton beasts can literally fly like bats out of hell! At the gas pump, keep your debit card handy for a second swipe after the pump reaches its $75 limit (most are like that around here) since the tank is a massive 42 gallons!

Suprisingly, there is only 1 rattle in the back our Suburban (the dash is tight). If you can afford the gas and possible transmission replacement/rebuild, I'd recommend one! For the lack of maintinance, and heavy use that ours sees, I can't say too much bad about it! The styling of the LX450 has never done anything for me....that's just me!

[Canopy]

Well, I'm not sure what I'm going to add to this since I haven't made up my mind yet, but let's just see where it goes.

I have two Lexus Ls 400's, a 1996 and a recently purchased 2000. Best vehicles I've ever had. Never have had a Lexus SUV so am not qualified to speak about them.

But I also have two Suburbans, a 1994 and a 1996. The 1994 has about 150,000 miles and the 1996 has 196,000. Both are in good shape. I've had Suburbans since 1976 (a 454 without smog equipment. I could put two horses in the trailer and accelerate to 75 in the acceleration lane before getting to the Interstate. I put 200,000 on that one and it still ran good, in fact one of the U. S. Marshalls in town is still using it for his "farm" vehicle).

I've had good luck with my Suburbans, although I've never liked their brakes. The rotors tend to warp and need to be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. The air conditioning compressors seem to last for about 75,000 miles (which isn't bad in the humid South) and I've replaced two alternators. Never have had a problem with the transmission. Never have had any engine problems either, although I change the oil and filter every three thousand miles.

We used to breed and raise Thoroughbreds and hauled them back and forth to Ocala, about 150 miles away on the Interstate so the towing got a workout. Never a problem (except the time in an emergency we had to use the Cadillac Seville to tow. I learned what overheating is all about). Suburbans are the best tow vehicles out there.

Both of your choices are good choices. You probably can't go wrong with either. I've found the Suburbans to be very reliable, but the ride is certainly different than the Lexus cars. On the other hand, you can put a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood in the back of the Suburban and that's handy at times.

Now with 4 vehicles and two drivers, I have to decide which one to sell. Probably will be the 96 Suburban, but I'm going to hate doing it.

Good luck.

[sha4000]

Guys I need your help.

My wife and I decided that we should get a used SUV for the winter and also for doing the Home Depot run, she doesn't like using her Odyssey. We narrowed down our choices to a 96-97 Lexus LX450 (70k) and a 99 Chevy Suburban LT (44k), both can be had for about $13k. I have never oned a Suburban, but have always wanted one and I have a Lexus LS400 that I used daily and love it. Now IO know gas prices are very high right now, but with the amount of use we will have it should be ok. Also my wife commutes with my two boys everyday, I feel much better if she is in a fullsize SUV during those bad days. So my question to you guys is, which one should I get, if I go American I get a newer lower mileage vehicle than if I go for a Import.

What do you guys think

Thanks and soon to add to my list

←

doesnt look like you want to do too much besices what you stated so just get the burb and save you some money b/c as you will find out with your 2 ls400 parts and maintenance is a killer down the road. besides you dont buy a lexus as a knock around vehicle B)

[agc]

Thanks guys,

I was leaning towards the Sub because I hear that sheetrock or plywood would fit just fine. With the LX I hear they are very comfortable and drives great. What my concern is that this vehicle would not get used often, only during bad weather and here in NY/NJ I feel better with my wife driving a bigger SUV, especially since she commutes with my two boys daily. Understanding what the cost of fuel is currently, I still feel better if they were in a bigger, safer SUV. Lastly my budget is realyy about $11k-$12k (tops)

[nc211]

agc, did you get my reply to your PM?

Get the burb', for what you want one for, it's the best choice in my opinion. A used SUV is a major crap-shoot because you have no real way of knowing where it's been...aka...mud buggy etc... Either way, they're both going to require some repair work, therefore I would get the one that Autozone, Napa etc..., stock most of their parts for, especially since you want a kick-around SUV and not a main driver. I would make darn sure the burb' is up to date on all recalls, especially the brakes. I know the antilock's have problems, or had problems. The chevy will either be perfect, or bug the crap out of you for fixes. Chevy's are like that, either way you look at it, new or used. A guy in my office just baught a caddy ctx sedan. Owned it for a month and it's been in the shop 7 times, one of which was because the outside mirrors actually fell off the car!

Just PM me the #'s and I'll do my thing.

PS, I love the 99 model of burb's and tahoes more than any other year! If I were buying a use SUV, I'd have to go with a 99' Tahoe, fully loaded, with the spare change on the side to fix it up, even possibly a new engine for the hell of it.

[agc]

nc211 ,

I did get your PM and will definitely be taking you up onit.

Thanks

[blake918]

Well, I'm not sure what I'm going to add to this since I haven't made up my mind yet, but let's just see where it goes.

I have two Lexus Ls 400's, a 1996 and a recently purchased 2000.  Best vehicles I've ever had.  Never have had a Lexus SUV so am not qualified to speak about them.

But I also have two Suburbans, a 1994 and a 1996.  The 1994 has about 150,000 miles and the 1996 has 196,000.  Both are in good shape.  I've had Suburbans since 1976 (a 454 without smog equipment.  I could put two horses in the trailer and accelerate to 75 in the acceleration lane before getting to the Interstate.  I put 200,000 on that one and it still ran good, in fact one of the U. S. Marshalls in town is still using it for his "farm" vehicle).

I've had good luck with my Suburbans, although I've never liked their brakes.  The rotors tend to warp and need to be replaced every 50,000 miles or so. The air conditioning compressors seem to last for about 75,000 miles (which isn't bad in the humid South) and I've replaced two alternators.  Never have had a problem with the transmission.  Never have had any engine problems either, although I change the oil and filter every three thousand miles.

We used to breed and raise Thoroughbreds and hauled them back and forth to Ocala, about 150 miles away on the Interstate so the towing got a workout.  Never a problem (except the time in an emergency we had to use the Cadillac Seville to tow.  I learned what overheating is all about).  Suburbans are the best tow vehicles out there.

Both of your choices are good choices. You probably can't go wrong with either. I've found the Suburbans to be very reliable, but the ride is certainly different than the Lexus cars.  On the other hand, you can put a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood in the back of the Suburban and that's handy at times.

Now with 4 vehicles and two drivers, I have to decide which one to sell.  Probably will be the 96 Suburban, but I'm going to hate doing it.

Good luck.

←

It's great to read another owner's $.02 on their Suburbans! It sounds like 94 & 96, and 99s have a different sets of problems. We've never had problems with our a/c system, and we had the rotors resurfaced once, and they've been fine. I find the pedal is pretty spongy though. No engine problems to report either. The guys at the dealership shared some info on why the transmission might of died. They told us that the Suburban got a new brand manager in 97 or 98. In light of his new position, he was trying to up profits by cutting cornerns. One area was the transmission where they downgraded some bearing (I don't know the technical term) which is what fails in them and kills the tranny. My mother's couisn has a '98 whose transmission died early on, but their Suburban reaked of a certain citrus fruit!

Whatever it is that they treat the carpet with is excellent! I can't the number of times we spilled things in there, but they all came right out eventhough they sat in there for a weeks and months. lol

[nc211]

that's very interesting on the brand manager! I remember hearing something along the lines about that time that certain bearings were replace with plastic type bearings that were designed to fail at specific intervals. this was done to move the inventory of parts GM has on the shelf, which is where any manufactor makes most of thier profits....on-going cash flow. I've know several alternators & power steering pumps to fail 40 months and 40,000 miles...just outside of that 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty. Either case, I still love that sharper edge style of the 90's! I would love to have one myself, but my cash flow is just a little too tight for GM maintence matched by my obsessive nature with cars. I can tell you this though, I've NEVER been in a GM SUV that got stuck, anyware. Not in1 foot of loose sand on the beach, not in a mud hole, not in the snow. And talk about a comfy driving position! Just drop that wheel down in your lap, rest your arm on top and cruise baby! The 350 is pretty bullet proof, been making them for decades and you can put almost any part on them, from any manufactorer. One of the world's most popular engines of all time, next to a 2.0 liter 4 banger.

agc, i'm only on the computer from 8:30-5:30 eastern time, m-f. I don't have internet at the house. So if I don't respond during the evenings or on the weekends, that's because I'm not on the net.

[blake918]

I think I'm going to have to retract my vote on the Suburban since the transmission in our '99 just died again @ 107k miles. On Friday, the truck is getting flatbedded back to Sewell to have them take a look. It's doing the same thing it did the last time it broke, gears make a bad grinding noise and it only drives in first and second gears. Two transmissions consumed in just over 100k miles, that's sad.

[lexus411]

I bought an LX 450 for a "dog transporter" a few years back. It has a 102k miles and still drives new. I actually liked driving it over my 2 new Lexus. It just feels so solid and I like the way the dashboard is setup . Definitely worth owning

[branshew]

Here's a quick thought - SUVs ARE NOT AS SAFE AS MINIVANS! If you are buying a vehicle for safety only then you don't want a SUV.

I was in your shoes a little over a year ago. My wife just had our baby and I wanted her to be in something safe - something that could withstand an impact on collision. I bought her an '02 Pathfinder LE with all the bells & whistles. I had my car in the shop one day and I was driving her truck to work. I hit a patch of unseen standing water on the interstate, slid into the jersey wall and rolled over three times. I was fortunate to walk away w/o a scratch, but the vehicle was completely totalled. The car seat that would have held my daughter was thrown to the back of the vehicle due to the forces in the accident - fortunately she was not in it at the time! I don't doubt that had I been in a car I would still have wrecked. I just would not have rolled over which made the accident much worse and way more dangerous.

After the accident I started doing a little research into car safety in general and discovered some interesting things:

NTHSA tests and accident data show that more fatal injuries are sustained each year by drivers of SUVs than Minivans. This is due largely in part to the higher center of gravity of the SUV which leads it to roll over more often than other vehicle types when they do get into a wreck. These numbers from the NHTSA made me think twice about ever buying a SUV again:

- In 2002 rollovers only accounted for 3% of crashes, but 33% of fatalaties.

- SUV's have up to a 45% higher roll over rate in accidents when compared to a standard car and 25% higher compared to a minivan.

- 75% of rollover accidents involve serious injury or fatalitles.

Minivans have a much lower center of gravity, but they still maintain truck like size and will stand up to an accident as well as an SUV with much lower rollover risk. After doing my homework I ended up buying my wife a VW Passat Wagon of the same year and it is a much safer vehicle.

BTW 2004 versions of the Tahoe & Yukon failed the NHTSA rollover rating test. '99 versions were not rated & neither were 96-97 LX or Landcruisers.

[90LS400Lexus]

I think the 99' is the same as the 95'. As a owner of a 95' Suburban, I can say that they are very good SUV's. Mine is a loaded, top of the line 1995 SLT 4WD model and it now has 288K miles - and that is on the original engine, which still runs perfectly. It did get a new transmission around 186K, according to the previous (and original) owner. Not cheap when new and they hold their resell value very well. Mine is starting to have some issues, such as front suspension, rear axle and cassette player are in need of attention. Despite being the SLT model (top of the line with leather), mine still does not have the CD player and the electronic compass, both of which were options. I do wish mine was the diesel however. They have a LOT of room. Mine has the 3rd seat, and there is still tons of space behind the 3rd seat. I am thinking of selling mine, as I do not need a car of this mass. It is not too easy to park in the parking lots. Parking lots now are just not made for vehicles this long. When I park at work, I have to pull way up (into the space in front of me to a degree) and the rear is still sticking out in the road lane. :D

As far as safety goes, you can feel safe in either of these large SUV's. My Suburban weighs nearly 6000 lbs. and it has driver airbag (passenger bag added for 97') and it has ABS brakes. The 96' models added daytime running lamps. Also- it has a 5-star crash test rating and that is even if you hit another 6000 lb. vehicle. I just pity anyone you collide with while driving one of these massive SUV's. It almost frightens me that I know I am in an automobile that can cause severe damage to smaller cars. I always drive with extreme care, especially when driving on a 2-lane at speeds over 35 mph.

My uncle had a 95' diesel Suburban, with a lot of miles- that was still very reliable. He currently has a 02' Suburban LT 4WD (newer style) that now has about 180K (at lot of freeway driving) that has been very reliable, with the exception of a slight computer problem. Sometimes his fuel guage will show full (even when lower) and the "low fuel" light will come on, even when full and other warning lights will illuminate even when no problems. I think he had it repaired. The price of his 02' when new was $45,000, so they can near/surpass the price of many Lexus cars of the same year. I think now some sell for nearly $50,000. I know that the new Cadillac Escalade ESV (same as Suburban) stickers for nearly $75,000! They are nice, but I cannot see paying $75,000 for any automobile.

The Lexus LX would be a good choice too. Keep in mind that it is the same vehicle as a Land Cruiser and that may save you some $$$$.

Good luck.

Attached is a photo of my tank. :D

[lenore]

For safe and fairly reliable transportation get a Ford Windstar, 1999 or newer. They too will hold plywood. Engine is bulllet proof and with tranny fluid changes the tranny should last.

[jainla]

First off I must echo branshew's sentiments on the safety of SUVs. While they are heavier, thanks to their high center of gravity they are also harder to control in emergency situations and much more prone to roll over. They also have less room inside than most minivans or even station wagons, and of course they guzzle gas. Also trucks for many years did not have to meet the crash compatibily or passenger compartment intrusion standards as passenger cars (although this is changing). As branshew points out the fatality rate for SUV crashes is higher than that for minivans or passenger cars; so purely from a crash safety level I would argue that SUVs are a non starter.

That aside, the 4x4 variants are fantastic for crappy weather and unpaved roads. I went to college in Connecticut and my friend's Range Rover went over snow, ice, sleet etc like nobody's business. Especially if you have to travel in areas that are poorly or infrequently plowed, or drive through dirt an SUV is the way to go.

In regards to your choice, I guess it depends on what your priorities are, if you just want a truck and cost is the big factor get the Chevy; especially if you plan to keep it only a couple years and drive it infrequently.

The LX 450 is basically a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser, which has a reputation all over the world for being indestructible; they are tough beasts, and honestly not that much different from the LX. You may want to look for an LC of the same age, you might find a better deal. They will end up being more reliable than the Chevy and both come standard with full time 4 wheel drive, which not all suburbans have. The LC/LX is also 5000+ pounds so in a real world crash the advantage of the Suburban is probably minimal. Also a 4x8 piece of plywood will fit flat in it; it might hold its value a little better too.

Being a truck maintenance will be more expensive, but the Chevy sounds like it's gonna need some TLC as well; the preventative maintainence on the Toyota/Lexus will be higher but overall the cost should be less. I'd recommend buying an aftermarket extended warranty, it will probably pay for itself.

Lenore's right though, on a purely empirical level a minivan would certainly meet your needs, especially if you get a 4 wheel drive one. Maybe you can find a Previa with AWD?

[agc]

Thanks guys for all your reponses, I have not bought anything yet (not really in a hurry). But I do agree with everyone about minivan, I have always had a minivan since I was 25. I think they are the best thing out there, yes even better than Lexus, they serve many purpose and are comfortable and easy to drive; let's just say I will always have a minivan of some sort. My wife's current daily driver is an 04 Honda Odyssey and we love this thing, will probably keep it another two years or so. The reason for the full size SUV is for when the weather is bad (snow), she drives with my 2 boys everyday to the babysitter (25 miles) and then she drives to work (3-5 miles). It's mostly highway, but NYC highway. I don't like using our Odyssey or LS for Home Depot runs. I though if I was getting another minivan, why not an suv so it can serve multiple purposes. We have owned several suv's and she always like them when the weather is bad, especially when parking at work (she parks on the street and they do not always clean the roads). So this is a quick look into my head about why I will probably get an SUV rather than another minivan.