Help!asap!what 2 Pay For 90 Ls, 133k?!

[legend11]

Hello to all!!!!

I am soooooo greatful for any feedback and help!! : )

This is my first post and am so glad I ran into this forum. Here is the scoop...

I am excited to say that I am on a quest for a 90-94 LS sedan. They look great!!!! I have been without a car for a year and feel that this car is perfect!!! Anways, I am going to go look at this car about 7:00pm (Mountain standard Time) tommorow and need some pricing information from you experienced LS400ers. The guy has $6300 listed for a 1990 LS 400 with 133k. I did a KBB and it came to $4800 with a car of this mileage. Is that the fair price!!!!!???!??!? It seems like a tremendous leap than what he is asking. Is this guy being outrageous?!?!? Please help me as I am completely ignorant to 1st gen LS400 prices. The car has been well maintained (so he says, but he offers to show proof of receipts upon request ). The timing belt was done and some various other maintanence I am not sure of. I have not seen the car yet but he assure me that the car is in imaculate condition. Ironically, the guy is selling another LS400 (yes, he has two) for $6900. The car for $6900 is a 1992 LS400 with about 160k miles; the timing belt was done too. He loves both of them but can only keep one as he just moved to a new house which garage can not house both cars. He told me whichever car sells first, he is going to keep the other one. To me, this seems like he is confident both cars are great cars as he would push me into only one. I like the peace of mind I am feeling.

The kbb seems to be a bit off, or is he a bit off. That is a $1500 difference!!. Should I meet him half way (if possible). Or is $5550 too much? I honestly have no clue and don't want to get burned, but, at the same time, I don't want to lose a possible great car due to being to deal-hungry. If the car is as great as he says it is then I want it. I just don't want to shoot him too low of an offer (in his eyes). I am new to negotiating. Any tips!!?!?

Please help me out!! : 0 !!!!!! I would love to share a success story on here and show some pics...

W.W.C.L.S.4.0.0.O.D???

"What would current LS400 owner do?" : )

[ED.]

C.L.S.4.0.0.O.W. ..

I think the price you are being charged is too high. I would look around first. Jumping on the first car you see may be a mistake. You might see one later that you like more or has less miles. Have you thought about a second generation LS? I really like our 96. I htink you should take it out for aspin and see what its like. Tell us everything and we'll try to help as best we can. I would also tell the guy you have talked to some Lexus guys and they think thats too high. See what he does. If he refuses walk. You might see him selling the car again for a lower price. Let us know and welcome aboard.! Your fiirst post and almot my 100th , tear, : )

Thanks

P.S. I like the What would thing. Pretty funny : )

[akewlguy]

Hello excited buyer..

First art of negotiation.. DONT GET EMOTIONAL!!

Second art of negoitation... HAVE A PRE DETERMINED TARGET PRICE and stick close to it!!

Third art of negotiation.. DONT GET EMOTIONAL..

My point is it may seem right now that there is only 2 LEXUS's in the world for 6k or less, both of which you are looking at. Go to cars.com and do a search for similar LEXUS's or under 6,000 dollars within 500 miles..

I just completed my 3 month search which started out me looking for Seabring Convertables, about to buy the ES300 and finally a perfect LS400. The LEXUS below is a 93 that was kept up as well as any for $6900. Dont forget to add in taxes, registration and other starting expenses. On top of that I knew in advance this car will require front end work in the next 30k miles.

If the guy is staiting how well the car was maintained and he cant provide documents he's full of shi..

Other important rules to follow are the Laymens for Laymens of buying a LEXUS.. http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...showtopic=11775

One also has to look into the common problems for these LS400's including dash lights in the winter ($300 repair by Jim Walker), power steering pump ($600 generic mechanic or $1200 LEXUS) and timing belt if he does not have proof ($1200 LEXUS or $400 generic mechanic).

Other items that sometimes go include the AC compressor and at every 100k you most likely need a new front end. You can repair the front end as it breaks, but total is $1500 for parts. This includes control arms, tie rod ends and other components for steering. Remember the car takes premium gas which is about 10% higher then regular.

I have 800 miles on my LS and I love it!! It feels like a fast tank. Strong and powerful, solid and fast! I enjoy all the little extras and also how one feels driving such a wonderful LEXUS.. On a typicall day I get at least 3 people say how nice the LEXUS looks and most people turn their heads when you drive bye. It just attracts attention, but the police expect a professional so they dont bother you.

CHEERS TO LEXUS

[legend11]

okay guys, thanks for the input, But should I pay only blue book value?????? ? I need an answer pretty quick as I may be negotiating withen the next day or so. I was thinking $5500, but I am ignorant to 1st gen LS400 pricing.. Let me what you all think in terms of what a fair price would be for a "flawless" vehicle (ie, timing belt, excellent condition and appropriate maintanance done). I will go from there once I actually see the vehicle. Thanks again!!!!

[RFeldes]

$5,500 would be fair IF.............it is flawless and documented. Drive it and after that, think it over, overnite. Good Luck

[wwest]

Don't hesitate, if the 92 checks out pay the man the $6,900.00 and ENJOY.

[Kennyr]

Don't hesitate, if the 92 checks out pay the man the $6,900.00 and ENJOY.

←

I agree with WWEST. I wouldn't sell my car for book. It's worth more and I know someone would pay up for it. The book is only a guide. I have sold many cars for over book. Some for less also. If this car is cherry make him an offer 500 less than he wants and go from there or just target cheaper cars.

[nc211]

I agree with Kenny and West, as long as you KNOW some of the common problems with the car have been fixed already "ie, suspension, dash lights". My 95 has at least $2 grand of new parts on it, primarily suspension components. Book is in the $12k range. I would not sell it for less than $13,500 with all of the upgrades. Make sure the seller isn't getting rid of it because of these needed repairs. Drive it, listen for "clunks", wandering in the steering, run the a/c at max, listen to the power steering pump for loud whinning. That sort of stuff

[legend11]

Okay, the car's mechanical side of things were mint!! Service records and everything looked fine. The only thing that "sucked" about the car was that the front bumper had paint peeling off (not sure why). The front bumper was the only thing that was weird and the paint wasn't peeling off completely (like partial). The body had a few minor dings. He said that the suspension would lower to far when he lowered it. I lowered it to see for myself and I thought It looked great!! It gave the car a slammed look and I would probably lower it myself anyway> Not sure what the big deal is. I offered 5000 and he came back after going inside to talk to his wife. He said the lowest he'll go is 5900 and I said the highest I'll go is $5500 (and honestly, that is the highest I will go). I guess we will see if he calls me back on my offer. Great CAR!! Run's well and timing belt and water pump was done. He said he did about $1000 worth of work about a year ago on the "crank ???" not sure what that was. He said it was tied to the steering of the car. Well, let me know what you guys think. The car seems mechanicaly top-shape!!! No leaks or nothing. Leather interior is perfect!!!1 This is a 1990 LS400 with 133,450k. Let me know please and thanks for all the input. Is 5500$ reasonable?? Or, I was thinking about offering him half-way ($5700) and see if he bites, but first I am going to play "chicken" with him and not call him to see if I get a better deal. I am only 20 and new to this whole "negotiating scene" but I feel I got an 8 out of 10 on my negotiating skills thanks to you guys and some helpful websites. Let me know some advice or tips. Thanks. As for now, I am waiting for the phone call. I really like the car, but I did not let my emotions get in the way. Thanks akewlguy! for the tip.

[wwest]

"Okay, the car's..........."

Which one?

You seem to be talking about a 1990 with air suspension. If the 1992 has struts then I'd buy it over the 90 without hesitation. Air suspension can be really costly when it comes to repair time............

[Gumart1]

You made the last offer of $5500. If you called him to offer more, you'd be negotiating against yourself. The fact that he went inside to confer with his wife tells me that he is not new to negotiating. If you called him and said you'd do $5700, he'll know you want the car and will probably ask to split the difference at $5800. I have to re-read your post but if I remember, you haven't driven too many LS's for comparison. They all feel great, it's all about HOW great. There are many older LS's for sale, I'd look at a few first if there are others that sound appealing. What I really recommend is to tell him you are considering his $5900 price and would like to meet at a Lexus Dealership for a $100 complete pre-purchase inspection. I guarantee that Lexus will find things that will need repair or maintenance, then you can use this to bargain down the price to somewhere near your $5500, plus you'll have a list all ready to go regarding future repairs. At that point he has invested time in meeting you with the car, and has been told there are issues, and I don't think he'd walk away from your offer right then and there. And, if the car checks out to be perfect, then it is probably worth his price. So you can't lose either way. And by the way I would only use the blue book values as a general rule, because I'd rather have a mint 90LS than a neglected 94 that needs $5k in work. Good luck!

[wwest]

One more thing against the 1990 LS. I seem to remember that as of 92 they had upgraded the front rotors and claipers as a result of having replaced too many warped ones on the earlier models.

[akewlguy]

Sounds like the car is in good shape..

You need to test drive a few others just to get an idea of how well the car drives.. The 93LS I now have drives amazing.. Two others (95 & 97) with 70k miles had a bad front end.. The last thing you want to do is buy this car and have to put 2k in the front end that you dont have.. Even if you have 2k its like your paying 7900 bucks for the car..

As for air shocks stay away.. I would also do two things before you buy.. As for the crank shaft that scares me? I dont hear that issue to much, but in any car that is not good! Also there is a common dash light problem that will probably be an issue in the winter.. Repair costs at least $300 bucks.

1. Get vin number and look at carfax (send me vin I can check)

2. Take it to LEXUS dealer for safety check.. They see these cars daily and can tell you what you have to spend.

3. Did you print out the Laymens buying guide on this website. I did and I followed it to a T.

Cheep taxes and insurance are a huge advantage when buying this car.

FINALLY!!! DO NOT RUSH!! I can't guarentee, but suspect this car is not going to sell over night.. If you rush and do not do your homework you are going to really be bummed out when there are issues..

Executivejock/akewlguy

[brandnewman]

Hi all, new member.

I say $5500 is fair if car is in excellent condition and it checks out to your inspection, test drive, etc. AND has some verifiable maintenance records. Get a one monthe Carfax for $25 and run the car, it's worth it. I just bought a one owner 1991 LS 400 last week with 100,000 verified miles on the clock for $5600.00. The car is in beautiful shape and I got a 3 month/3000 mile powertrain warranty. Got it from a Cleveland area used car wholesaler on Ebay. The black jade metallic exterior has some small parking lot dings and chips. The gray leather interior is abousultely mint. Best of all, mechanically the car was absolutely pampered. I got a 1 inch thick stack of maintenance/repair records with the car, all done at the local Lexus dealer. The people followed the service schedule in the owner's manual to the letter from the day they got it until 100,000 miles. The oil was changed every 3,000 miles, filters, gaskets at correct intervals, etc. I even have the original window sticker and the dealer sales order from when they bought the car. The car stickered for $44,000 in 1991. They paid $42,000 less a $6,000 trade and paid the $36,000 balance in CASH!

I LOVE the car. :D The smooth quiet ride, handling and sneaky power are amazing. And the sound system is awesome! :)

[legend11]

This guy is saying $5900 is what he is willing to settle for; The blue book is $4900 and I know everyone says take the blue book with a "grain of salt" when it comes to the LS400. I just think the price is a bit high. You guys said an excellent condition LS400 and this one has a slight crack on the windshield and paint is coming off on the front bumpers. The car also has a few dings on the body (which is expected for a 1990) and the interior is flawless. Car ran like a dream, but I have limited driving these so I am not sure if a poorly maintained one would still run good in my eyes. At 75 on the highway the ride was really smooth. The timing belt was done at 93k with the water pump. I think the "crank shaft" was done as well. Not sure if this is something that was supposed to be done or not. The guy does seem to nudge from there so I am tempted to leave and look for another. I just get the vibe that the car is a great car. Him and his wife own three of them!!! Yes three!!! same color and everything (one 92, and two 90's). They said that they are selling one of the 90 and one of the other 92. I want the 90 because the 90 has less mileage than the 92 and I think it is in better shape (with the exception of the faded paint on the front bumper). I am not sure what to do. I definantly don't want to overpay.. Let me know what you think. I guess at $5500 I am being generous as many of you's think $5500 is fair for an excellent car. What exactly is excellent anyway if the car is 15 years old??? Not sure where to go from here, but hopefully someone can guide me a bit more to the right direction based on what you guys think.

[1990LS400]

I suggest that you keep looking.

When I sold my 90 LS in 2003 it had zero dings, converted A/C, completely up-to-date maintenance and a virtually perfect interior. People unfamiliar with Lexus cars thought it was new. My next door neighbor also purchased his 90 LS when new and sold it about the same time I did - it also looked and drove like new. You might find other very nice examples if you are patient.

I've never seen any statistics but it seems like a much higher percentage of early LS400's had air suspension than later ones. Air suspension on the early LS got some really bad reviews in the automotive press for impairing the handling and has an awful reputation for requiring repairs and replacement.

I recommend focusing on 93 and newer LS400's. There were huge improvements beginning in 93 including 16" wheels and larger tires, vastly improved brakes, slightly better headlights, passenger airbag, fully adjustible front passenger seat, in-dash CD player, another 10 h.p. - the list of improvements is incredible.

Step up to a 95 and it gets even better with a longer wheelbase, larger interior, still more horsepower, and even better headlights.

The peeling paint on the front bumper may be from improper body work where the bodyshop failed to use the paint additive necessary to allow paint to "flex" on plastic parts. Once painted incorrectly, it is difficult to strip and do properly. It happened to my 90 LS and it required a new bumper cover to fix.

Another option is to consider a later model ES or even a Camry. Our V6 Camry has the same interior space of the old 90 LS (I measured both), costs far, far less to maintain, and is more fun to drive. The Camry/ES isn't as quiet or luxurious but is far easier on the budget.

[akewlguy]

I just paid $6900 for my 93 with 93k.. It also needed new tires ($500), dash lighting ($300), timing belt ($400) and had minor nicks here and there.. I spent a week driving different LEXUS's and realized this one drove nicer then the 94's, 95's and 97's I test drove.. Three of them had less mileage, but one was leased (stay away) and three had issues with the front ends. So I guess in the end the price was more like $8100.. Throw in my new rims, title and registration I'm over $9000.

For sure I think you need to go to cars.com and take a look at a few more LEXUS's. I am not saying you do not have a good deal, but why rush?

Does the 90 have Air Shocks? If so when I went to LEXUS mechanic he stated dont buy Air Shocks.. They go bad and cost a pretty penny to replace. Personally I dont have much experience with them, but this is what I was informed.

KBB stated excellent is nearly perfect. Only 1-2% of cars meet this status. No mechanical issues, nearly perfect paint and interrior.

I also agree with the 93.. The car has a ton of improvements! Did you review the generations web site? It shows pictures and details that have changed.. The 93 is wonderful.. Check out my pictures in the posting.. First week of LEXUS ownership.. I think its on the second page some where.

Good luck and dont rush!!! ALSO MAKE sure what ever you get bring to LEXUS for your own mental stability. More or less they will tell you everything you need to know for about $100 bucks.

[legend11]

I just paid $6900 for my 93 with 93k.. It also needed new tires ($500), dash lighting ($300), timing belt ($400) and had minor nicks here and there.. I spent a week driving different LEXUS's and realized this one drove nicer then the 94's, 95's and 97's I test drove.. Three of them had less mileage, but one was leased (stay away) and three had issues with the front ends. So I guess in the end the price was more like $8100.. Throw in my new rims, title and registration I'm over $9000.

For sure I think you need to go to cars.com and take a look at a few more LEXUS's. I am not saying you do not have a good deal, but why rush?

Does the 90 have Air Shocks? If so when I went to LEXUS mechanic he stated dont buy Air Shocks.. They go bad and cost a pretty penny to replace. Personally I dont have much experience with them, but this is what I was informed.

KBB stated excellent is nearly perfect. Only 1-2% of cars meet this status. No mechanical issues, nearly perfect paint and interrior.

I also agree with the 93.. The car has a ton of improvements! Did you review the generations web site? It shows pictures and details that have changed.. The 93 is wonderful.. Check out my pictures in the posting.. First week of LEXUS ownership.. I think its on the second page some where.

Good luck and dont rush!!! ALSO MAKE sure what ever you get bring to LEXUS for your own mental stability. More or less they will tell you everything you need to know for about $100 bucks.

←

Yeah I agree with what you said about taking the car to a lexus dealer for inspection, but is something that should happen before buying the car??? Or should I seller do this as a service to the buyer???? Not sure how you guys pulled this off. I was going to have the ls looked at by my local mechanic for free or the lexus dealer. Yeah, I am getting excited about getting one of these things but I got to maintain the emotion since I don't want to regret something later on. It sucks because there are no other Lexus' near 200 miles on AutoTrader or cars.com in the color and mileage I want.... I hope somebody will sell one that looks good nearby.

A few things that are keeping me from buying so far...

-The guy wants $5900; I will only offer him $5500 for it.

-The front bumper paint is fading away (the white portion, the grey looks fine)

-The car has chrome fender moldings (I hate these things and know I could take them off but I have heard that someone did this and there is discoloration, so I will have no way in knowing until I buy the car)

-The car has air shocks

--------------------------------------------------------------

I mean the car seems really maintained and it is in the color I want. Am I being tooo picky?? Let me know what you guys think. I mean if I think about it, it is only a $6000. Interior is flawless, and the body is really good (just paint). Also, the car seems extremely maintained and he has the records to prove it.

Just not sure if I will regret letting this one go, or regret buying it. I guess it is kind of hard to go wrong if I don't have a rent payment (I am 20 and live with my parants).

I wonder if there is any polish or paint cleaner that I can apply near the discoloration on the fenders to help blend the paint once I take the fender moldings off if there are any discoloration)

[nc211]

You'll HATE those air shocks when they break. It's about a cool $1,200 PER wheel to fix, unless you convert it over to the normal spring/strut set up. Trust us...air suspension is a real sob to mess with. Probably the most expensive thing to repair on the car, and...they...will...need...repair...work!! The only real negative recommendation I've ever heard about buying a used LS is to stay away from the air suspension. I don't care if he just replaced them himself, they'll need attention again. I'm betting they're the originals too. Most people who have them, replace them with the conventional set up when they're worn out, due to the huge cost savings. Hell, even the dealer will tell you that, and recommend it over replacing the air shocks with air shocks. Personally, I would find one that does not have the air suspension. I think you're really asking for trouble with them. True, the ride is increadible...but so is the normal set up. It's your call man, sounds like it's a good car, just know that when the air shocks go, you've got to replace them and it'll cost you a lot more than with a normal set up. With the normal set up, it's just a strut @ $50. With the air suspension to convert it, you've got to get the springs and some other little nick/nack things to make the conversion work. You'll be around $400-$550 per wheel for conversion. Not to mention, when one goes, you've got to either fix that one with air parts, or convert the whole car with conventional set up. You can't have just one wheel on normal set up, and the others on air. It's all or nothing.

Do yourself a favor, don't get the air suspension option unless you've got the cash reserves to waste on fixing them.

I don't mean to p*ss on your parade amigo, just pointing out a VERY LIKELY pitfall you'll face with that car.

[legend11]

You'll HATE those air shocks when they break. It's about a cool $1,200 PER wheel to fix, unless you convert it over to the normal spring/strut set up. Trust us...air suspension is a real sob to mess with. Probably the most expensive thing to repair on the car, and...they...will...need...repair...work!! The only real negative recommendation I've ever heard about buying a used LS is to stay away from the air suspension. I don't care if he just replaced them himself, they'll need attention again. I'm betting they're the originals too. Most people who have them, replace them with the conventional set up when they're worn out, due to the huge cost savings. Hell, even the dealer will tell you that, and recommend it over replacing the air shocks with air shocks. Personally, I would find one that does not have the air suspension. I think you're really asking for trouble with them. True, the ride is increadible...but so is the normal set up. It's your call man, sounds like it's a good car, just know that when the air shocks go, you've got to replace them and it'll cost you a lot more than with a normal set up. With the normal set up, it's just a strut @ $50. With the air suspension to convert it, you've got to get the springs and some other little nick/nack things to make the conversion work. You'll be around $400-$550 per wheel for conversion. Not to mention, when one goes, you've got to either fix that one with air parts, or convert the whole car with conventional set up. You can't have just one wheel on normal set up, and the others on air. It's all or nothing.

Do yourself a favor, don't get the air suspension option unless you've got the cash reserves to waste on fixing them.

I don't mean to p*ss on your parade amigo, just pointing out a VERY LIKELY pitfall you'll face with that car.

←

No problem, I appreciated the directness of the post. It makes me realize that there is no way around getting these to work correctly. I have got to admit though, the lower and raising of the car was cool (it allows the stance to change) but I don't feel it is worth having constant money dumped in order to keep it working. I am going to stray from this car. Especially sinc you said that this is the most expensive thing to fix on the car. You know what, When driving the car the guy said that the car does not lower very well. He said that when you lower the car it lowers tooo ffar. I was not aware of anything with this car when I test drove it. We lowered it in the parking lot because I want to actually how far "too low" was and it looked fine to me. It kind of looked cool to watch the car lower but I agree, there is no since and buying something that is going to have an inevitable problem in the future. Thanks, I guess I know what to look for now.

I think I loved the model and not that specific car. I love the LS400, but I will cross my fingers and pray that a 1st gen white one is for sale with no air shocks and decent mileage.

Back at square one,

but thanks for the advice. I appreciate the fact that you guys in here feeding me LS400 knowledge and keeping me aware of problem car.

At 5900 (which is steep for a 90 to begin with IMO and based on what I've heard in here) I am not going to get a car that will require a suspension overhaul just because all the other maintainance checked out fine.

Thanks thanks thanks

[blake918]

Just as a side note on the air ride incase a perfect LS comes along with it again, there are ways to fix them that won't break your bank account. Remanufactured struts are an option. They're inexpensive and come with an impressive warranty. OE struts aren't quiet as much$$ as rumor holds....the rears are $470/piece rears, and the fronts are ~$850/piece fronts. Conventional strut conversion is available for $800-$1k if you want to go that route. Good luck!!!

[nc211]

Yep, car has the classic symptom of pending air suspension problem if it's sitting too low when lowered. You'll not regret letting this one pass by. The LS400 is probably the best used car money can buy. That 4.0 liter V8 is freakin' bullet proof and they go for a few hundred thousand miles with normal maintance. Save your money for other repairs you'll face with a used ls400. There will be new control arm parts you'll need, motor mounts, tranny mount, muffler, etc... and so forth. All LS400's have these needs. With our online vendor contacts, fixing a LS400 is about the same price of a Chevy. The cool thing about these cars is that the repairs needed are normal repairs due to wear and tear, not due to design flaws. You won't be getting recall notices every month, plastic pieces breaking off in your hands, rattles that you can't find and loud engine operation. Every car needs brake pads, shocks, control arms, timing belts, plugs, etc.... But taking on that air suspension is very tricky and very costly. You're doing the right thing by not messing with it. It's one of those repairs that when it needs it...it needs it immediately. You'll find the right one man, don't worry. And you'll love having it too! It'll be the best car you've ever owned, and you won't want anything else.

[nc211]

and listen to Blake's advice...he knows his stuff! He's got 250k+ miles on his, and it's in better shape than mine at 100k. We've both got the same 95' black/tan LS400s.

I'll catch up eventually! :D

[akewlguy]

After reading DONT BUY!!

That is DONT BUY..

When I was searching I was so close to buying a ES300 for 10k.. I could not see there being a better deal anywhere. The the following week I looked at Cars.com and there were more. The the next week there were more.. My point is each week there will be more. Most look and drive nice so dont worry about that..

As for your money dont think well I live with dad so I can waste.. Be smart and save some for a rainy day or nicer rims, XENON's and tires. Remember this car takes premium gas and is rear wheel drive. So if you are in the north get ready for two sets of tires.

Good luck.. Where are you from?? State/city? I guess there are some areas where there are not many LEXUS's for sale.?

[legend11]

can someone please carfax this LS. I am going to have a mechanic look at it tommorow; it is the 90 LS400!!! The one I had doubhts with. Please let me know...

Kind of spur of the moment I know. If anyone can run this VIN I would be greatful..

JT8UF11E6L0027948