Rx400h Not Up To Specs

[the-headless_horseman]

I have had my RX for over a week now...driven it about 350 miles. I have found that if you drive the car no more than 65 mph on the highway (and with cruise) or on flat ground with no need to accelerate, you can get good mileage...otherwise, the car, so far, is a bust.

The reason I say this?

I have not seen any numbers above 24 mpg on my car. No matter how gingerly or hard I drive it, I can't get the mpg up...whether I accelerate like a grandma or hit the gas 'briskly', the car's gas motor seems to suck down gas...and it seems to run virtually all the time.

Lexus stated 31/27...that's fine and dandy...but under what conditions? I don't think drivers should have to change their driving style to get this mileage...as is the case with ANY car, if you drive it a little harder, you lose some efficiency...what's apparent with a hybrid is if you accelerate a little too much, you get lousy mileage...period!

I don't know how Lexus got away with advertising good mileage with this vehicle. I'm seeing better performance at a tremendously greater price, and with very little efficiency gain.

If I were to receive the 31/27 with 'normal' driving conditions, I'd be very happy. Problem is that I'm driving around at about 22-23 mpg easing the car around as carefully as I can so as to not 'over-engage' the gas motor.

I feel very misled and as of this point in time, very, very unhappy with this vehicle. I appreciate the navi system, bluetooth, and other toys, but they pale in comparison to the importance I stressed on the improved mileage for the vehicle.

I gloated to everyone that I was getting a luxury hybrid SUV that would be getting me near 30mpg...now I'm embarassed to tell anyone I even bought the car...there is nothing special about the hybrid system other than a lot of technology...

A breakin period is, of course, in order...however, the likelihood of going from 23 mpg to near 30 is probably very slim...I guess to get there I'll always have to be driving down hill....this is pathetic.

I think Lexus has done itself a HUGE dis-service with this vehicle. I can't imagine most people will be happy with its lower than advertised mpg...all for thousands more. As of this date, this car is a bust...too much money for too little of what Lexus said it would do.

Once J.D. Power gets a hold of people like me, I don't see Lexus sitting number one much longer!

I am so very disappointed...I guess I should have waited a few years to see how the hybrids would turn out...had I known they'd be so disappointing, I would have put my $50,000+ somewhere else...should've waited for next MDX generation with cylinder cut-off...likely to get true 28 mpg like the Honda Odyssey...and it'll be about $10,000 less, with more room....

Lexus should be ashamed of this vehicle!

Headless

[ReXus]

I've never owned a vehicle that lived up to it's mileage figures. I just traded an Acura MDX for an RX400h. Old vehicle rated 18/24. I got 12/16 unless I drove it like my foot would barely reach the gas pedal. I figure that if I got 14 on the MDX and get 28 on the RX I'll save half at the gas pump and wait on gas lines half as often. If I get 24, I'm still way ahead of the game.

FWIW, many years ago, my 1984 Honda CRX-HF was rated at 55/68 mpg. I actually got 48. Don't beleive what you read on the window sticker. It's just a reference point.

To quote from Spamalot: Always look on the bright side of life!

I have had my RX for over a week now...driven it about 350 miles.  I have found that if you drive the car no more than 65 mph on the highway (and with cruise) or on flat ground with no need to accelerate, you can get good mileage...otherwise, the car, so far, is a bust.

The reason I say this?

I have not seen any numbers above 24 mpg on my car.  No matter how gingerly or hard I drive it, I can't get the mpg up...whether I accelerate like a grandma or hit the gas 'briskly', the car's gas motor seems to suck down gas...and it seems to run virtually all the time.

Lexus stated 31/27...that's fine and dandy...but under what conditions?  I don't think drivers should have to change their driving style to get this mileage...as is the case with ANY car, if you drive it a little harder, you lose some efficiency...what's apparent with a hybrid is if you accelerate a little too much, you get lousy mileage...period!

I don't know how Lexus got away with advertising good mileage with this vehicle.  I'm seeing better performance at a tremendously greater price, and with very little efficiency gain.

If I were to receive the 31/27 with 'normal' driving conditions, I'd be very happy.  Problem is that I'm driving around at about 22-23 mpg easing the car around as carefully as I can so as to not 'over-engage' the gas motor.

I feel very misled and as of this point in time, very, very unhappy with this vehicle.  I appreciate the navi system, bluetooth, and other toys, but they pale in comparison to the importance I stressed on the improved mileage for the vehicle.

I gloated to everyone that I was getting a luxury hybrid SUV that would be getting me near 30mpg...now I'm embarassed to tell anyone I even bought the car...there is nothing special about the hybrid system other than a lot of technology...

A breakin period is, of course, in order...however, the likelihood of going from 23 mpg to near 30 is probably very slim...I guess to get there I'll always have to be driving down hill....this is pathetic.

I think Lexus has done itself a HUGE dis-service with this vehicle.  I can't imagine most people will be happy with its lower than advertised mpg...all for thousands more.  As of this date, this car is a bust...too much money for too little of what Lexus said it would do.

Once J.D. Power gets a hold of people like me, I don't see Lexus sitting number one much longer!

I am so very disappointed...I guess I should have waited a few years to see how the hybrids would turn out...had I known they'd be so disappointing, I would have put my $50,000+ somewhere else...should've waited for next MDX generation with cylinder cut-off...likely to get true 28 mpg like the Honda Odyssey...and it'll be about $10,000 less, with more room....

Lexus should be ashamed of this vehicle!

Headless

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[SW03ES]

Like I've said you need to let it get broken in before you pass final judgement. We're getting better mileage on our Prius with every passing mile.

[the-headless_horseman]

The breakin period, I guess, will take some time...why doesn't Lexus inform us of that? The only thing I was told was not to use cruise in the first 100 miles and to change speed a lot...

I admit I have accelerated at times quickly (like when merging onto highway)....the car does have a excellent pick-up...but the mileage cost is great!

Also, why didn't Automobile and other magazines that really praised the RX tell us exactly HOW they drove it? Did they get new vehicles or vehicles that were already used for some time...so, past breakin period? They got great numbers without making a big deal about how they drove the darn thing...how'd they pull that off?

Perhaps I should just take a nice 500 mile road trip...stick the thing in cruise at like 65 mpg and let the gas motor breakin nicely...will probably get over 25 mpg with this approach, eh?

Headless

[the-headless_horseman]

MDX at 14 mpg??? That's horrible...and that's also with premium gas! A friend of mine (actually his wife) has the MDX and they love it...they're getting about 18 mpg combined...

I guess, compared to that, I should be happy...even at let's say 23 mpg, with cheap gas, I'm doing a lot better....plus, the performance on the Lexus is vastly superior...

I will say that the Acura has a great navi system...they have a 2004 so the navi works while you're driving...too bad ours doesn't! She doesn't have bluetooth though...and I love the bluetooth...nothing beats making calls directly from the car!

My drive to work is about 7 miles on 40 mph roads, with lights...it's a little hilly too...perhaps this isn't an ideal drive for a hybrid? By the time it warms up, it's time to shut-down?

Headless

[scoobie]

The breakin period, I guess, will take some time...why doesn't Lexus inform us of that?  The only thing I was told was not to use cruise in the first 100 miles and to change speed a lot...

I admit I have accelerated at times quickly (like when merging onto highway)....the car does have a excellent pick-up...but the mileage cost is great!

Also, why didn't Automobile and other magazines that really praised the RX tell us exactly HOW they drove it?  Did they get new vehicles or vehicles that were already used for some time...so, past breakin period?  They got great numbers without making a big deal about how they drove the darn thing...how'd they pull that off?

Perhaps I should just take a nice 500 mile road trip...stick the thing in cruise at like 65 mpg and let the gas motor breakin nicely...will probably get over 25 mpg with this approach, eh?

Headless

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I can see why the engine might need breaking in, but the electrically-powered portion of the drive train should not. And based on my own experience with a 2005 RX330 (same engine as RX400h), gas mileage does not vary much between mile zero and mile 2000+.

Having said that, I don't really think you are getting gypped, because its the combination of improved driving performance and better gas mileage that makes the 400h appealing (to me at least), if you wanted the most fuel efficient vehicle for the money then you bought the wrong car, and Lexus never promoted the gas mileage alone as the selling point, its always the combination of more power and better mpg.

[RX400hGirl]

I've driven mine for 11 days and my avg mpg is 30. I get anywhere between 25 and 33 mpg depending on the ratio between city and interstate driving.

One thing you might want to do is go to the Consumption screen (you can get there by clicking Consumption on the Energy screen) - and reset the counter for each trip. I had not been resetting and so I saw 20-24 mpg the first couple of days and it freaked me out. Then I started monitoring for each trip and I've been nothing but pleased.

If you don't see btwn 27-30 at some point, then you should definitely get in touch with your dealer because it may be a specific issue with yours.

If anyone wants me to take pics of my screens just to show the different range of mpg I'm getting each day, I'd be happy to take some.

Take care and hang in there!

[cruznroadking]

Keep in mind that the Hybrid gets it's best gas mileage in stop & go city driving because the electric motor/generators are on more than the gas engine. If your normal drive is 40 mph up hills then it's not the ideal condition for maximum fuel economy. When I test drove the 400 in city driving the fuel monitor indicated that I averaged over 30 mpg. I agree with the others about break in period. My RX330 was averaging 14-15 mpg the first 2 months now I average 18 combined.

[jzz30]

first off i would like to say that the H is a neat car to drive( jsut test drove one on saturday) the sales guy said that you get better milage under stop and go city driving. on the free way the mileage is worse. like cruznroadking wrote...

[bikeandsail]

I've got 1400 miles on my 400h and the average mileage is 22-23 inlcuding 400 miles towing a boat. For mixed driving w/o boat I am getting 24-27. Worst highway mileage has been about 22 driving 70-80 in the snow into a headwind.

I'm pleased with the numbers. The car is not a 2500lb econobox hybrid and will never match the mileage of one.

Ron

[marmadmax]

My MPG numbers are so far disappointing. I have 600 miles on the 400h and I am very easy on the gas and don't run the climate system unless absolutely necessary. I am also NOT experiencing the inverse city/highway mpg returns. As Rx400hGirl suggested, yesterday I reset the mpg calculator, and much to my surprise, I got 19.3 in the city and later in the day I got on the highway and the mpg increased. Buy the end of the day, the mpg had gone back up to 24.5. I will give it more time, but my numbers are no where close to what Rx400hGirl is seeing. I am jealous. It will be back to the Dealer after I put on more miles if this continues.

[RX400h]

Just to put things in perpective, Consumer Reports achieved 12 or 13 MPG (city driving) while driving a new Honda Odyssey recently. The Toyota Sienna was slightly higher at 13 or 14 in the city. Cylinder deactivation is great if you spend most of your driving time on the highway, but does nothing significant in the city. The average mileage (according to CU) of each of these vans is 19 MPG. I'm getting 25+ MPG average in the RX400h and it weighs about the same as a typical minivan without AWD. Another thing to remember (as SW pointed out) is that even modern engines have a breakin period whereas cylinder rings conform to their bores, allowing power and mileage to increase over time.

Having a vehicle that generates 650 lbs-ft of torque (can spin all four tires if necessary), uses regular gas and gets over even 20 MPG is an amazing achievement in my book. Anything over 20 MPG is icing on the cake.

[OKEH1]

I have a 2003 RX330 with almost 30000 miles on the clock, the car is driven approx 30 miles per day , split roughly 50% freeway /city driving . my average is 21 - 22 per gallon and have monitored this on a regular basis by the onboard comp and by my fuel reciepts.Now here is the good part, when we do a good run , all freeway at constant 65 we can return easily 25 -26 and have had up to 28 if i cruise at 60 ish , so no complaints here on MPG .

I can't justify buying the 400H on fule economy, it would take way too long to offset the difference and prefer the 330's wood interior anyday to the designer look which may get dated fast. Remember wood is a renewable product, not like plastic or metal which has to be recycled at a cost .

[the-headless_horseman]

It's nice you're getting 25 mpg plus...I'd like to get there as I'm in the 23 mpg club right now...

Again, my friend's Odyssey is getting near 28 mpg on the highway...I think about 17 in city...so, either way, it does a lot better than those 13 mpg numbers...he has the newer model with the cylinder shut-off..he is averaging about 21 mpg right now overall...that's pretty good!

The bottom line for the RX400h is as follows: it's a great vehicle with tons of cool features...a technological marvel. However, no matter how anyone wants to put it here, it was pushed as being a very efficient, powerful, luxury SUV...first of its kind.

With that in mind, I don't think the VAST majority of buyers will be happy with sub-25 mpg numbers....period...if there is a long breakin period, then I should have heard that from Lexus, not from other car owners (no offense guys/gals)...you cannot put a car out that says 31/27 and expect people not to make a peep when it's getting in the low 20s combined...that doesn't cut it in a 50k dollar vehicle...period...forget comparing it to anything else...compare it to what it's said to do...if it does it, then expectations are met and eveyone is happy...if it falls short, you're going to have a lot of unhappy people...right now, Lexus has a lot of unhappy people!

Now, in all fairness, will the mileage gett better with time? I think so...it makes sense...but Lexus should have enough testing to tell us that it's going to get near 23 mpg for a few thousand miles, or tell everyone to drive downhill and not to ever accelerate...for that matter, every car does better with those suggestions...

Again, for $50,000, this car is underperforming for the majority of us...justify it any way you want...it's not doing what it is supposed to do...at least not yet...and if it does achieve 31/27 mpg, I'll be the first to rave about it and tell everyone else to be extra patient...as an owner, you'd better believe I want better mileage...I love the car in every other way...it's a great ride! For now, however, it's hard not to be skeptical!

Headless

[RX400hGirl]

My MPG numbers are so far disappointing.  I have 600 miles on the 400h and I am very easy on the gas and don't run the climate system unless absolutely necessary.  I am also NOT experiencing the inverse city/highway mpg returns.  As Rx400hGirl suggested, yesterday I reset the mpg calculator, and much to my surprise, I got 19.3 in the city and later in the day I got on the highway and the mpg increased.  Buy the end of the day, the mpg had gone back up to 24.5.  I will give it more time, but my numbers are no where close to what Rx400hGirl is seeing.  I am jealous. It will be back to the Dealer after I put on more miles if this continues.

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Don't be too jealous I sit in A LOT of stop and go traffic which drives me nuts. :cries: That was my main reason to go for a Hybrid, but since I also Ski and do a lot of traveling, the smaller sedans didn't appeal to me.

[wwest]

RX400hGirl...

If you don't reset the computer after each trip you get 20-24MPG (the "TRUE" average!). But if you reset it after each trip you get 30MPG.

That's called peak detection to some of us.

Appologies in advance, but are you truly a BLOND??

[ReXus]

Appologies in advance, but are you truly a BLOND??

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wwest, that was extremely rude to another poster, and totally uncalled for. You owe her an apology.

[Husker4theSpurs]

So are people saying that you need to reset the fuel economy every time you fill up? In the RX330 it resets itself after a fill up.

[the-headless_horseman]

Resets itself??? Why would it do that?

On the RX400h, you reset the mpg on the navi screen...you leave it going as long as you want...(or as short as you want)...that way if your trip is over 1 gas filling, you can gauge it for the whole trip...don't see an advantage to a car resetting the mpg gauge itself with each gas fill-up!

On the RX400h, the display is either on the navi screen or on the dash...in the instrument cluster area...you can actually view it in 2 places...

Headless

[scoobie]

So are people saying that you need to reset the fuel economy every time you fill up?  In the RX330 it resets itself after a fill up.

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That's what my impression was/is as well, after each fill up the ave mpg would automatically starts at 0 or close to 0 and stabilizes after a few miles, I don't recall reading in the manual whether there is a manual (no pun intended) reset.

[Unlisted]

its a performance car thats great on gas 20 mpg or 30 mpg i m still happy. I look at it as being a V8 RX which alone is worth the extra money. you have mentioned honda or acura in everyone of your posts. hope you are a real consumer and not a bored salesperson

[WEast]

RX400hGirl...

If you don't reset the computer after each trip you get 20-24MPG (the "TRUE" average!). But if you reset it after each trip you get 30MPG.

That's called peak detection to some of us.

Appologies in advance, but are you truly a BLOND??

←

It's bad enough that you're being condescending, but you're also making statements without all the information. After lurking for a few months now, it seems you either have some problem with the concept of a Lexus Hybrid, or the type of person that would buy one.

Personally, I wouldn't really trust an on board computer to accurately get a mileage reading on a vehicle that has to gauge mpg fluctuations based on multiple power sources.

I do not expect a salesperson to be honest about breakin periods - if everyone got the maximum life out of their cars they would make fewer sales.

I take stock in the fact that Prius owners have universally reported increased mpg after breaking them in, and the batteries have held up quite well over 5 years (even taking into account that they don't have to pull as much weight as a 400h). Otherwise I wouldn't really consider a 400h.

So now I go back to lurking until my 400h reservation number comes up, then it will be decision time. I am thankful to all of you who have been reporting their 400h experience(s) on this forum for the last couple months. It's a great resource.

[bikeandsail]

By the way the on board computer mileage is nice and resonalbly accurate. I checked at about 1% short. The right way to check the mileage is miles traveled dividied by the gallons at fillup. I also checked my odometer and found it was 2.5% long. IE 1mile indicated =1.025 actual. T

[RX400h]

I have read time and time again that the RX400h "design intent" is PERFORMANCE. Toyota chose this direction because the majority of those buying SUVs place performance above all else. It's obvious to most who have read these posts that the majority of RX400h owners are thrilled or very happy with their new vehicles. I would venture to say that the vast majority of EPA numbers are NOT achieved. A good example is the mileage numbers of the Prius. According to Consumer Reports, owner satisfaction for this car is much better than average, despite the fact that few are achieving EPA numbers. The key here is to compare the competition to what you have. The new Mercedes ML-350 EPA numbers are horrible to begin with. Imagine what the actual numbers are!

BTW, the Sienna averages the same fuel milage as the Honda Odyssey, despite its lack of cylinder deactivation. Perhaps you can get 18-20 MPG if you are gentle on the gas pedals, but neither vehicle shuts down at a stop, so during high-traffic conditions, expect those figures to drop drastically (as Consumer Reports has seen), whereas the hybrids such as the RX400h would only improve. Where most of us live, traffic is getting worse every year. If had to choose between cylinder activation OR self-propelling electric motors, I will always choose the latter.

[wwest]

How about we throw a bit of fairness, objectivity, into this "fray"??

Several years ago I purchased a new 2003 Prius.

It does not achieve the advertised EPA MPG ratings nor did I expect it would. According to the onboard computer it averaged 43MPG for the last 7394 miles, 95% in city. Odometer indicates 17119 miles since it rolled off the showroom floor. 405.151 gallons to travel a total of 17119 miles gives us 42.253MPG. Guess that computer is pretty accurate.

This morning I noted that the average MPG reading on my 2001 AWD RX300 is 17.2MPG. That's very likely at least a 3,000 mile average if not as much as 5,000 miles. It very likely includes several highway trips of 200 to 300 miles. To put that into context that is about the MPG we could get in our 1992 Jeep Cherokee Limited with the I6 motor with purely highway miles.

We get ~22MPG in the RX300 for pure highway travel.

Not all that bad, all things considered.

So, 20-24MPG in city for the RX400h is about a 20% to 40% MPG improvement over my 2001 AWD RX300.

Also not bad.

But.

RX400h highway cruise MPG....

When I first bought the prius I noted that the batteries continued to be used even at a constant highway speed. On a trip to Portland from Seattle, ~150 miles, other than driving HP, the ICE needed to be used at least 4 times to bring the batteries back up to a charged state.

This made no sense to me so I bought the Prius manuals to begin looking into the possibility of disconnecting the batteries during highway trips to extend the MPG rating.

NOT POSSIBLE!

The Prius CVT, Constantly Variable Transmission, is not the same one most of us are familier with. Basically the CVT in the Prius and the RX400h is simply a differential, very much like the one found in many transfer cases of an early 4X4.

The ICE drives one input and the electric motor drives the other input. The rate at which the output shaft turns is the "sum" of the two inputs.

The bottom line is that the electric motor MUST be used at all times, even at a constant highway speed. The "front" electric motor in the RX400h determines the CVT "gear" ratio. And yes, that is detrimental, possibly highly detrimental, to highway fuel economy.

But not really a bad compromise if the object is to attain stellar in city, stop and go traffic, fuel economy and ultra-low emissions.

Got that?

IN CITY ULTRA-LOW EMISSIONS..........!!!

Think Los Angeles.

So, my mind is made up, my next vehicle will be a new 2006 AWD RX330 (350??) with air suspension. That's provided, of course, that the engine hesitation symptom is overcome by then.