Egr Block Off Plates

[j_lee84sc]

my check engine light is on and they say to change my EGR valve..i considred it but then i saw the block off plates...if i do those will i lose substantial gas milage, and will the check engine light stay off if i put those on????

[AWJ]

Be advised, altering the emission system of your engine is illegal if it will be used on the road. Florida is probably not a problem. Neither is my state. You know there is a little cotton or fabric filter in the top of the egr modulator? It can be cleaned or removed. If you want to compeletely remove egr, there are some options. Overprice plates from performance houses or the e-bay specials. They appear to all be the same. I chose to drill and tap the bottom plate for the oem temperature sensor or thermocouple as us industrial people call them. Joined vacuum lines in places on the same ciruit simply bypassing the egr valve and modulator connections and capping the vsv for egr line, acutally just tied it right back to the intake and plugged the signal line. I even left the vsv switch off even though I bought a new one when I broke the old one while working on it. I have not hard loaded the vehicle since this recent work. I have started it several times, brought it to operating temperature and drove it around the block. No mil ... yet.

EGR is not necessary but will effect emissions. I have heard cars with bypassed egr can pass emissions with some tricks. Legal or not. I can't advise on this.

[j_lee84sc]

thanks for the advice i think i will just reroute the lines so i dont waste money on overpriced plates, but will my check engine light ever go off if i do that?

[mehullica]

Why would you want to disable the EGR system? This is an electronic fuel injected vehicle. Can't "fool" it into running better. EGR cools the combustion chamber and reduces emissions. If you remove it, the check engine light will stay on, you'll run hotter, and leaner. Engine will lose performance and ping.

[AWJ]

cars in other countries do not run egr. same engine. no problems. egr is solely to reduce emissions. It raises intake temperature to a dangerous level on turbocharged cars. Like mine. That's why I removed it. I also disabled acis. Wanna race?

[SCoupe]

Why would you want to disable the EGR system? This is an electronic fuel injected vehicle. Can't "fool" it into running better. EGR cools the combustion chamber and reduces emissions. If you remove it, the check engine light will stay on, you'll run hotter, and leaner. Engine will lose performance and ping.

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Don't post when you have absolutely no freaking idea wtf you are talking about... ("ERG COOLS THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER") not! Do you turn the oven on to cool your house in the summer ?

Fact: The factory EGR system in the Toyota 2jz-gt and 2jz-gte engines was designed to help in emissions reduction by allowing hot exhaust gases to be recirculated into the cool incoming air inside the intake manifold. While this was a helpful from an emissions standpoint, it has negative effects on any engine, N/A and particularly on a turbocharged vehicle that relies on cool charge air temperatures to make horsepower.

[SKperformance]

I was just about to jump all over that "cooling combustinon chambers".

Preferable if you can make a switch to the actuator so that is can be turned off or closed when you want more power ,then it woud be the most useful to you.

This gives you full power when needed under WOT but amazing gas milage when it isn;t.

Mine is sticking and i can always tell by the gain of 10 horses whe it is closed and the 500-600km per tank when open.

BTW i pass amazingly our emmision tests with it stuck open.

[mehullica]

How EGR systems work The EGR valve recirculates exhaust into the intake stream. Exhaust gases have already combusted, so they do not burn again when they are recirculated. These gases displace some of the normal intake charge. This chemically slows and cools the combustion process by several hundred degrees, thus reducing NOx formation. This is basic high school science. Seems like many people on this forum have failed high school level science courses. This is not new technology. Get it together SCoupe and SKperformance.

[mehullica]

The design challenge The EGR system of today must precisely control the flow of recirculated exhaust. Too much flow will !Removed! engine performance and cause a hesitation on acceleration. Too little flow will increase NOx and cause engine ping. A well-designed system will actually increase engine performance and economy. Why? As the combustion chamber temperature is reduced, engine detonation potential is also reduced. This factor enabled the software engineers to write a more aggressive timing advance curve into the spark timing program. If the EGR valve is not flowing, onboard diagnostics (OBD) systems will set a code and the power control module (PCM) will use a backup timing curve that has less advance to prevent engine ping. Less timing advance means less performance and economy. Do your customer a favor and fix those EGR codes that you may have previously deemed as unimportant

[SKperformance]

Get what together?

What you may percieve as highschool science is relavent but with no bearing on an engine.

Get an egt,actually hell i'll do one better than than, I HAVE ONE !

When my malfunctioning egr is open my EExhuast gas temps are up by 200 degrees F.

Any forced induction engine knows the egr will play havok in the system and works around it.

The returning air temp of exhuast gases from the egr are over 1000 degrees , air from the intake is about 30 after the venturi affect ,with the gas being atomized by the injectors causing further cooling. So where do you figure adding hot air which still does contain unburnt gases which is why it is being recycled to reduce nox.

Sorry bud but you are wrong and don't make assumptions like that it is quite rude to make a stupid comment on people you don't even know.

[SKperformance]

The design challenge The EGR system of today must precisely control the flow of recirculated exhaust. Too much flow will !Removed! engine performance and cause a hesitation on acceleration.

Too little flow will increase NOx and cause engine ping. A well-designed system will actually increase engine performance and economy.

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This last comment i have to comment on seperatly as it is so wrong it makes no sense.

If an egr is open it can cause pinging from the afr being too lean .

The engine only gets lean when the spent gases are returned since it makes the ratio easier to ignite form higher temps.

Come on now you have to agree you where wrong unlesss you copied and cut this from another site ,then atleast they where wrong and you followed them.

[monarch]

my check engine light is on and they say to change my EGR valve..i considred it but then i saw the block off plates...if i do those will i lose substantial gas milage, and will the check engine light stay off if i put those on????

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I agree with everything mehullica has said and would like to further add that EGR valve sticking and EGR system related check engine lights are usually a SYMPTOM of current or previous owner failure to keep the engine and its various systems 100% stock and / or performing scheduled preventive maintenance on time using factory original replacement parts.

So in my view the correct approach to preventing further future trouble is to get the engine / exhaust, etc. back into factory original shape and the worst approach is to add insult to injury by installing even more mods such as EGR block off plates.

[AWJ]

It's not insult to injury. It depend the owner the car and their goals. If the goal is to have a stock oem SC, I agree. Fix the egr. If you want a turbo'd car with power and want to take care of it, for god sakes, pull it.

I also have to state, I had the whip out for an extended period last night. The rebuild is good, but I have boost issues. Mainly, not enough and lack of control, but I can elaborate in my under the knife thread. And my check engine light is coming on and off, due to, the egr plates I believe. Might run codes today depending on how far I get on my checklist. I'll update.

But my other point is, our cars are getting up there in age. These are mechanical components with hot gasses, fuel, oil and all sorts of weather on them. Just because the egr fails does not mean the previous owner did a bad job or the car is in bad shape. You have options on how to deal with it. Do any of them correctly and a successful resolution is to be had.

[SCoupe]

... will my check engine light ever go off if i do that?

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You can easily defeat the check engine light with a with a 10K Ohm 1/2 watt resister from Radio Shack (Part #271-1126). Here is a how to link: http://www.mohdparts.com/egr_mods/defeat/index.html

The egr plates are commonly available on eBay for $30 shipped.

There is much advice and how-to's regarding the EGR in the Supra Forums and MKIV.com. Sum dem garduHaTd fum hI-Scrwl. The 2jz is seldom pushed harder than by the guys posting there. :P

[monarch]

our cars are getting up there in age.  These are mechanical components with hot gasses, fuel, oil and all sorts of weather on them.  Just because the egr fails does not mean the previous owner did a bad job or the car is in bad shape.

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The people who own and run the the Supra Forums and MKIV.com can't tell durability potential of the EGR valve, catalytic converter etc. since none of those performance enthusiast oriented type folks keep their cars 100% stock using OEM replacement parts, etc. So when their EGR components or catalytic converter or other parts fail at 150,000 miles they just chalk the failures up to "old age"

The actual durability potential of all that emission system hardware is really up in the 400,000 - 600,000 mile range http://www.saber.net/~monarch/454.jpg and Toyotas with 450,000+ miles have still passed tough California emission tests with all their factory original emission components http://www.saber.net/~monarch/smog92.jpg

[AWJ]

I wouldn't say any of that is not possible for those components to last so long, but I'm also not surprised if they fail over use. Things that get used break. At 100+k miles, little things like this are not an issue to me. It happens. Regardless, everyone has made their point. And they are correct. Looks like I'll just be using a resistor. Never did pull the code today, I might if I feel like it. Car is running fine, damn strong actually, it's the damn egr on me too. Cuz I messed with it.

[SKperformance]

Your entiteled to your opinion monarch but my car is serviced perfectly with all oem parts, driven softly 95% of the time unlike anyother owner since i don't even bother overtaking people with this car.

I have a dirty egr like almost every other ES owner as they age.

Not a specific to me problem with an intake and exhaust just a common issue.

You are happy with a basic preforming vehicle, i use nothing that is basic everything has a new threshold that i touch,that is just my sense of being like the "pursuit of perfection".

So your idea is a nice thought but nothing more than a jab at me based on a hunch rather than some kind of reality.

thanks anyway

[monarch]

Your entiteled to your opinion monarch but my car is serviced perfectly with all oem parts, driven softly 95% of the time I have a dirty egr like almost every other ES owner as they age.

Not a specific to me problem with an intake and exhaust just a common issue.

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SK, it says in your profile that you paid only $28000 CAD for your car so you are not the original owner.

My experiece with 4 different Toyotas has been the EGR system is troublefree for almost unlimted years and miles when the car is purchased brand new and receives all scheduled preventive maintenance on time using OEM parts and premium gasoline

My experience with Toyota equipped with EGR systems is as follows:

'92 Toyota pickup 453,000 miles and still in my fleet (and no EGR problems)

'91 Lexus LS400 104,000 miles and still in my fleet (and no EGR problems)

'89 Toyota Corolla 239,400 miles and still in my fleet (and no EGR problems)

'86 Toyota Corolla 394,000 miles when totalled in a car wreck (and no EGR problems up to 394K)

All these vehicles were purchased brand new except the Lexus

[j_lee84sc]

wow...i just wanted to know if it is damaging to the engine, after checking out a few sites like mkiv and a few others, there is no damage to be done by removing the egr system, if you are going for stock thats great, i just want some added performance and a solution at the expense of not being stock, i think ill manage

[AWJ]

ha ha :D

can of worms bro...

it's neither here no there... good luck

[SKperformance]

Monarch what does buying my car new have to do with anything again?

Especially since you didn't purchase yours new either.

An ae86 or ae92 or any of your other cars had minimal emmision controls and none were OBD2 compliant.

So what is the relavence again.........

[Shadow]

The returning air temp of exhuast gases from the egr are over 1000 degrees , air from the intake is about 30 after the venturi affect ,with the gas being atomized by the injectors causing further cooling. So where do you figure adding hot air which still does contain unburnt  gases which is why it is being recycled to reduce nox.

Sorry bud but you are wrong...

:whistles:

I believe mehullica is talking about the effect of EGR on "the combustion chamber temperature" and SKperformance is talking about the effect of EGR on intake air temperature. Higher intake air temperature does not necessarily mean higher combustion chamber temperature. In the case of EGR, recycling hot exhaust gas do indeed lower combustion chamber temperature (mehullica ) to reduce nitrous oxide emission. Search the net for more info. Here is one if your search ends in failure.

http://www.misterfixit.com/egrvalve.htm

[SKperformance]

Very nicley put and backed up shadow.

I commend that.

The nox is reduced by reducing the raw gas in the cylinder.

WHich is done by reducing it potential and intorducing unusable mixtures.

So it introduces an incerased intake temp but reduces the output or potential of the mixture,which overall reduces the temps.

I was misunderstood in this situation, thanks for the update.

So an egr reduces the exhaust gasses temp by reducing nox (nitrides of oxygen) from elavated burn temps.

This concept is which makes sense in a weird way since it says throwing something hot into something hot makes it cooler,

I guess 1 + 1 does not always equal 2

[monarch]

Monarch what does buying my car new have to do with anything again?

Especially since you didn't purchase yours new either.

An ae86 or ae92 or any of your other cars had minimal emmision controls and none were OBD2 compliant.

So what is the relavence again.........

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Carbon deposits will eventually cause an EGR valve to stick. Why do some EGR valves start sticking at 150K miles and others not until 500K or more miles? Owners who buy their cars brand new and perform all the required scheduled preventive maintenance on time using OEM parts and premium gasoline will have engines that are always running perfectly and therefore always generating minimal concentrations of unburned hydrocarbon emissions. Since their exhausts are inherently so clean carbon deposits build up in the EGR system only at a very slow rate.

[SKperformance]

Owners who buy their cars brand new and perform all the required scheduled preventive maintenance on time using OEM parts and premium gasoline will have engines that are always running perfectly and therefore always generating minimal concentrations of unburned hydrocarbon emissions. Since their exhausts are inherently so clean carbon deposits build up in the EGR system only at a very slow rate.

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That is an awfully wide spectrum to say all owners who do this have perfect cars.

I have carbon deposits in my egr which sticks only when the engine is cold,works fine once warm.

btw my exhaust tip still shines like new with only a basic wipe when i wash the car every month or so, so my carbon deposits are minimal on the exhaust end.