es300_1997 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 es300 1997, instead of taking chances with transmission flushes and "universal" type synthetic fluids, you could care for your transmission the way the Toyota engineers recommend. They recommend:1. Just draining and refilling the transmssion oil pan with Toyota's own premium Dexron fluid http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfb.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfc.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfa.jpg Since your existing fluid is on the old side, you could have the pan drained and refilled at eash engine oil change for 3-4 times in a row and then return to a more typical 15,000 - 20,000 mile drain and refill interval. There is no need to remove the transmission oil pan and clean the magnets or filter screen until the car has about 150,000 miles on it (and even at that mileage the screen will likely still likely be quite clean and unrestricted) ← And what makes Toyota Dexron III fluid so different from Amsoil? & how much does it cost to do a 'drain & fill' at your dealer or mechanic? Time that by 3-4 times & you could do a 100% fluid change for the same cost, once! I said to drop the pan & replace the tranny pan gasket as a preventitive measure.....I would not wait until 150,000 miles to do that & why not clean the filter mesh screen at the same time the gasket is replaced since it's right there. :whistles: ← Hmmm...great posts! But still not sure as to do a full flush or not. But I know if I do anything, I will without a doubt drop the pan and clean it out along with the screen as I like to know the exact condition of the fluid and if any metal is abnormally found collecting on the screen and magnets. Wondering if I should do a partial change of fluid, not including the torque converter, drive it for a week or two then maybe do a flush at that point. If any varnish or crap gets loosened then maybe the flush after the partial fluid change could catch them before it clogs any internal valves. Also confused as to the method of the fluid change, I noticed on one of the Toyota ATF bottle pics that was linked, it stated that the transmission should be *cold* when adding it to the tranny. I suppose to prevent any instant varnish/burning of the fluid on exposed surfaces after the old fluid is removed and the new added. But also noticed that the Amsoil directions stated to 'warm' the engine up to change the fluid, this is what I remember for most vehicles to help the fluid be more... well fluid and you have a higher chance of removing more out durning the change. But if Toyota's saying don't do this, I wonder if something else not being told. Also, I am more concerned of the use of cleaning additives with the proper fluid. Toyota's tranny Dextron formula is not the same as GM's formula for instance. The detrgent agents are specifically made for our trannies. I am not so sure if Amsoil matches that. You can have the same or beter viscosity for an oil, but the detergents used by the recommended standards are never the same between brands unless thay say so directly, and Amsoil really doesn't say that, but leans more in being 'universal'. Don't get me wrong, I use Amsoil in my other car and have used other products of theirs and they have great stuff, I just like to match industry or manufacturer's standards to each other and it's not really being explained that way by them, just the viscosity rating that matches, and in this case, I am not too sure if Amsoil would be best. Remember detergents are just as improtant to the seals and gearing as the viscosity. BTW, does anyone have any links that show the DIY steps and pics for changing the tranny fluid? - Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexusfreak Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Hmmm...great posts! But still not sure as to do a full flush or not. But I know if I do anything, I will without a doubt drop the pan and clean it out along with the screen as I like to know the exact condition of the fluid and if any metal is abnormally found collecting on the screen and magnets. Wondering if I should do a partial change of fluid, not including the torque converter, drive it for a week or two then maybe do a flush at that point. If any varnish or crap gets loosened then maybe the flush after the partial fluid change could catch them before it clogs any internal valves. Also confused as to the method of the fluid change, I noticed on one of the Toyota ATF bottle pics that was linked, it stated that the transmission should be *cold* when adding it to the tranny. I suppose to prevent any instant varnish/burning of the fluid on exposed surfaces after the old fluid is removed and the new added. But also noticed that the Amsoil directions stated to 'warm' the engine up to change the fluid, this is what I remember for most vehicles to help the fluid be more... well fluid and you have a higher chance of removing more out durning the change. But if Toyota's saying don't do this, I wonder if something else not being told. Also, I am more concerned of the use of cleaning additives with the proper fluid. Toyota's tranny Dextron formula is not the same as GM's formula for instance. The detrgent agents are specifically made for our trannies. I am not so sure if Amsoil matches that. You can have the same or beter viscosity for an oil, but the detergents used by the recommended standards are never the same between brands unless thay say so directly, and Amsoil really doesn't say that, but leans more in being 'universal'. Don't get me wrong, I use Amsoil in my other car and have used other products of theirs and they have great stuff, I just like to match industry or manufacturer's standards to each other and it's not really being explained that way by them, just the viscosity rating that matches, and in this case, I am not too sure if Amsoil would be best. Remember detergents are just as improtant to the seals and gearing as the viscosity. BTW, does anyone have any links that show the DIY steps and pics for changing the tranny fluid?- Henry ← If your worried about that Henry, I suggest sticking with the Toyota recommended fluid. I wll be switching to Amsoil ATF simply because it's synthetic, has a longer drain interval.......IS compatable with Type IV fluid (and Dexron III) & have yet to hear anybody that has had any tranny damage as a direct result of using this fluid instead of the actual Toyota fluid. I have heard other folks notice a pretty big difference & improved shift quality as well.......it's smart to change the fluid when it's warm or hot (my owners manual does not suggest to change the fluid when it's cold) to get old fluid & more 'gunk' out if you will. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82DMC12 Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 1. Just draining and refilling the transmssion oil pan with Toyota's own premium Dexron fluid http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfb.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfc.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfa.jpg ← LOL - once again, some people have no clue. 1. Do you think Toyota owns refineries and makes their own fluid? 2. Do you think Toyota is trying to sell their own fluid to you and thus hires marketers to make you want to buy it? 3. ExxonMobil is the builder and blender of Toyota fluids. I know a Mobil representative who told me not in these exact words, but it comes down to: Me - "I heard Toyota oil and transmission fluid you get at the dealer is different than what you get at the aftermarket store even if it says it meets Toyota specifications" Him - "HA HA HA!!! Another urban legend! I can't come right out and say it to you but let me say this. You'll have to read between the lines. When we blend an oil or other fluid, ExxonMobil makes hundreds of thousands of gallons. And when Toyota needs fluid, we blend hundreds of thousands of gallons. Catch my drift?" He went into a little further detail and told me that when one manufacturer approaches them with new specifications for a new engine they have and they need an oil that can meet those specifications, they wind up raising the bar on the entire production run and not just for that manufacturer's needs. For instance - Porsche wants to go 30K on a Mobil 1 oil change. Do you think the Mobil 1 you get at the dealer is different than what you buy at autozone? This is one reason why Mobil is changing their oils - in order to provide Porsche and other highly demanding manufacturers what they need. I'm not making this up. This information was given to me after a company meeting while I was talking one-on-one with the rep. There's nothing special about Toyota oil or tranny fluid (well the Type IV is not compatible with standard DEXIII, true). ONE difference that DOES exist is with pre-H-spec Dexron III, SOME manufactures were not using high enough quality base stocks in order to meet GM's 50K transmission service maintenence recommendations. Earlier this year all tranny fluid switches to DEX-IIIH and cannot be called Dexron (a GM license) if it doesn't use the higher quality base stock. This fluid is available and has been for some time now. If you are doing a fluid change, make sure it says IIIH, then you know you are getting the highest quality non-synthetic you can get. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 1. Just draining and refilling the transmssion oil pan with Toyota's own premium Dexron fluid http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfb.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfc.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/atfa.jpg ← LOL - once again, some people have no clue. 1. Do you think Toyota owns refineries and makes their own fluid? 2. Do you think Toyota is trying to sell their own fluid to you and thus hires marketers to make you want to buy it? 3. ExxonMobil is the builder and blender of Toyota fluids. I know a Mobil representative who told me not in these exact words, but it comes down to: Me - "I heard Toyota oil and transmission fluid you get at the dealer is different than what you get at the aftermarket store even if it says it meets Toyota specifications" Him - "HA HA HA!!! Another urban legend! I can't come right out and say it to you but let me say this. You'll have to read between the lines. When we blend an oil or other fluid, ExxonMobil makes hundreds of thousands of gallons. And when Toyota needs fluid, we blend hundreds of thousands of gallons. Catch my drift?" He went into a little further detail and told me that when one manufacturer approaches them with new specifications for a new engine they have and they need an oil that can meet those specifications, they wind up raising the bar on the entire production run and not just for that manufacturer's needs. For instance - Porsche wants to go 30K on a Mobil 1 oil change. Do you think the Mobil 1 you get at the dealer is different than what you buy at autozone? This is one reason why Mobil is changing their oils - in order to provide Porsche and other highly demanding manufacturers what they need. I'm not making this up. This information was given to me after a company meeting while I was talking one-on-one with the rep. There's nothing special about Toyota oil or tranny fluid (well the Type IV is not compatible with standard DEXIII, true). ONE difference that DOES exist is with pre-H-spec Dexron III, SOME manufactures were not using high enough quality base stocks in order to meet GM's 50K transmission service maintenence recommendations. Earlier this year all tranny fluid switches to DEX-IIIH and cannot be called Dexron (a GM license) if it doesn't use the higher quality base stock. This fluid is available and has been for some time now. If you are doing a fluid change, make sure it says IIIH, then you know you are getting the highest quality non-synthetic you can get. Andy ← I do not know about the Porsche deal, but I have stated Toyota fluids where Mobil/Exxon for months now. Glad to see someone else knows that same thing. :)Toyota oil is mobil drive clean from what I know/here. I need someone else to take over the debates on oil. The cat is getting tired of it! J I know Mercon is getting a new spec and I think Dex3 is going to what you state know. Too much new stuff to grasp...:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 3. ExxonMobil is the builder and blender of Toyota fluids. I know a Mobil representative who told me not in these exact words ← Then tell us specifically what ExxonMobil fluids available in retail stores are chemically identical to a genuine Toyota fluids and show us a virgin chemical analysis to back your claim up. On practically every Toyota forum there are independent shop mechanics who speak out and say "Toyota fluids are just "rebottled / rebranded auto part store fluids and that's why we don't use them and why even Toyota dealers don't use them in their own service bays." But these same independent shop mechanics never provide a virgin chemical analysis of a Toyota fluid pitted against available auto parts store fluids. On another forum, some owners pooled their money to get a chemical laboratory to test virgin Toyota Long Life antifreeze alongside 4 other Auto parts store Long life antifreezes. The Toyota freeze turned out to be distinctly chemically unique just as Toyota claimed it was. And unique even though Honeywell forumulated it. Honeywell also made the two versions of the Prestone antifreezes that were also used in the chemical analysis. Thus we see Toyota engineers instructed Honeywell specifically how it wanted Toyota antifreeze built. Another example: Chevron is famous for making fuel injector cleaner additives containing Techron and yet Toyota went to Chevron to have it's own brand of fuel injector cleaner built. Toyota made the decisions on the chemical makeup of this cleaner so it's distinctly different than Chevron's own fuel injector cleaners (the primary solvent in Chevron's cleaners is unexpensive trimethylbenzene while the primary solvent in Toyotas fuel injector cleaner is much more expensive butyl cellosolve.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexusfreak Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 3. ExxonMobil is the builder and blender of Toyota fluids. I know a Mobil representative who told me not in these exact words ← Then tell us specifically what ExxonMobil fluids available in retail stores are chemically identical to a genuine Toyota fluids and show us a virgin chemical analysis to back your claim up. On practically every Toyota forum there are independent shop mechanics who speak out and say "Toyota fluids are just "rebottled / rebranded auto part store fluids and that's why we don't use them and why even Toyota dealers don't use them in their own service bays." But these same independent shop mechanics never provide a virgin chemical analysis of a Toyota fluid pitted against available auto parts store fluids. ← It's intresting monarch, mburn over the months has been providing proof via oil test results with regard to Amsoil & you even then still dispute the claims! Even though you don't provide actual test data to back up what you claim. :whistles: 82DM, I agree that alot of ths is in fact as you put it an 'urban ledgend' as nobody has stated or come forward with proof that Amsoil ATF (which clearly states is compatable wth Toyota IV fluid) has caused any kind of damage when re-filled at the proper lever & changed at the correct intervals. B) btw, GM is coming out with a new & improved ATF this summer called Dexron VI & it will be available this summer over the counter at GM dealers & other auto parts locations. It will also be 'factory fill' on all 2006+ GM vehicles with 'hydra-matic transmissions. ;) The article is below: April 4, 2005 GM introduces improved automatic transmission fluid Pontiac, Michigan - GM, in conjunction with Petro-Canada and the Afton Chemical Corporation, has developed a new, improved automatic transmission fluid for all 2006 model year Hydra-Matic automatic transmissions. Called Dexron-VI, the new fluid improves viscosity, shift performance and fluid durability. In tests, Dexron-VI delivered more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests compared to existing fluids, with superior performance in pitting, foaming, oxidation and shear stability tests. The fluid will be available through GM-authorized dealerships and service centres in summer 2005, and is approved for retrofit use in all Hydra-Matic transmissions prior to model year 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Lexusfreak, mburn never provided any virgin chemical analysis results comparing genuine Toyota fluids vs aftermarket auto parts store fluids. Fram claims it's air filters "meet new car warranty specs." and I have never heard of any reports of engine damage when Fram filters were used in place of genuine Toyota filters. Yet in the real world use here is an example of the unintended consequences that can occur when a Toyota owner uses a Fram air filter in place of a factory filter: http://www.saber.net/~monarch/fram.jpg. The possibility of unintended consequences is also a a potential and avoidable problem when using a "universal" fluid like Amsoil Synthetic ATF in place of all genuine Toyota Type T and Dexron fluid uses. Toyota and the other quality oriented Asian car makers may not immediately latch onto Dexron IV fluid for the same reasons they did not immediately latch onto Dexron III when it first came out. And to this very day they still do not want DOT 4 Brake Fluid used in place of DOT 3 fluid. Why? because the additives in the more modern fluids may degrade long term componet reliability and durability in subtle ways. Example: if it turns out that Dexron IV increases the rate of rubber O-ring deterioration, power steering pumps and transmissions will fail sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 monarch has been banned for 2 weeks from the Lexus Owners Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexusfreak Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 monarch has been banned for 2 weeks from the Lexus Owners Club. ← How did he manage to post the above message? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviej Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 monarch has been banned for 2 weeks from the Lexus Owners Club. ← How did he manage to post the above message? ← Lexusfreak, the 2 week ban occured/started shortly after he posted those replies. steviej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexusfreak Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 monarch has been banned for 2 weeks from the Lexus Owners Club. ← How did he manage to post the above message? ← Lexusfreak, the 2 week ban occured/started shortly after he posted those replies. steviej ← Thanks Steviej, I wasen't sure how long the ban was too last. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camlex Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Reason we write "HISTORY", so we can learn from it. may i ask What was the reason for ban? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexusfreak Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Reason we write "HISTORY", so we can learn from it.may i ask What was the reason for ban? ← I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviej Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 may i ask What was the reason for ban? ← camlex, frankly, the reasons are between management and monarch. I can say that it had to do with failure to follow established rules and guidelines. steviej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmalu Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Does anyone have a link to a tutorial for a drain and fill on mid 90's 94 95 96 etc...Ive done oil changes and twice have searched for wher I would drop the tranny pan and drain but havent figured it out for sure. If where I am thinkingis right i need a hex key to release it? Am i way off? So once again we see owners who use inexpensive CONVENTIONAL oil and change it regularly are rewarded with 265,000 miles car. ← I would not call 265K "265,000 miles car". No one is saying synthetic is the best in the world case closed here. I use synthetic for the added protection and benefits OVER dino old-dextron 3. Can dino do the job sure. So can an old 486 PC too or analog systems. Some people want more and so are fine with the old stand bye for the lack of a better term. If you are using dino the key is charging out soon since or not go very long. It subjected to higher then normal heat good bye. For me the 4 qts of Amsoil every 40K is cheap, very cheap and I know it performs better (as the shirts are seemless). Is it the best, no. I also know may that have gone longer with dino and that is them, not me. Samething with oils. You get what you pay for and the oil tests will and do show it. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxavier2k Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I just completed a drain and strainer clean on a '93 windom if you're interested i can post the procedure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azmalu Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 yeah just a brief overview....http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t14716.html this is what ive seen i assum its pretty similar but any additional info cant hurt....btw what fluid did you use ?synthetic like amsol redline or somethin else I just completed a drain and strainer clean on a '93 windom if you're interested i can post the procedure ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan01 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 My mistake. Like you said, I meant clean the screen, not actually replace it with a new one. It's been a little while since the last time I was inside the pan on my ES. Andy ← If your ES is due for a 'complete' fluid change, I'd take this chance to replace the tranny pan gasket while your at it & clean the filter mesh screen at the same time (this should be good for several years before you have to change the gasket again as a preventitive measure). In between that time (sounds like your very fussy like me with fluid changes) I'd just do a 'drain & fill' methon every 30k miles or 2 years whichever comes first........especially if you switch to Amsoil synthetic ATF as it will last much longer than the conventional Toyota Type IV fluid. Just my suggestion as that is exactly what I will be doing. B) ← OK, so let's say that I own an ES300 MY97 that has the discolored tranny fluid and is low mileage for the age, but hadn't had the tranny fluid changed in 40K? Total mileage is about 80K right now. The car has not been abused in the sense of stoplight burnouts (or attempts there of) or acting like it's a manual and unnecessarily shifting from low to drive for instance . All the other fluids, oil, brake, and coolant has been changed at scheduled times, but my wife neglected to do the Tranny fluid afte our last visit to the Lexus shop at 30K. All other work was done third party, i.e. Goodyear or some other shop and that is why no one came out and mentioned anything to her about it. :chairshot: So what options and steps should I take? I do have the smell from the tranny case and the fluid is a dark color. I like to change it out ASAP, but confused whether to flush the system or not. Any suggestions. Also for an older car should synth in the tranny be ok as opposed to the regular dino stuff? Thanks for any help. - Henry PS: first post at this forum, hope it will be a start of many. ← I am in about the same situation as Henry... What exactly should I do? Should I do a flush? Or should I just do a drain and replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I would just drain and refill. Also do the filter every other time if you wish. I would not flush anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan01 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I would just drain and refill. Also do the filter every other time if you wish. I would not flush anything. ← ok, should I do it at more frequent intervals (same time as oil changes, 3k) for the first few times... and then back to regular intervals? (15k)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 I'm the opposite. I would flush it. The crap is 40,000 miles old. Draining the pan isn't going to change close to half the fluid in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monarch Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ok, should I do it at more frequent intervals (same time as oil changes, 3k) for the first few times... and then back to regular intervals? (15k)? ← The least risky, least costly and least complicated procedure is to drain the pan overnight (to get more of the oil fluid out), measure the amount drained and refill with the same amount. Drive the car normally for a day or two and repeat the procedure. A total of 4 times. Then to back to regular intervals (15k). If you have the time and interest, you can also drop the transmission oil pan and clean the pan, the magnets in the pan and the metal mesh fluid strainer, and install a new pan gasket but this isn't critically important until the transmission has alot of miles (150K or more) because the magnets and strainer normally don't get very dirty until 150K or more. The least risky fluid to use is the type of fluid that's engraved on your transmission fluid dipstick (which on your '96 ES is probably Dexron II or III fluid) from a major oil company like Mobil, Chevron, Shell, etc., or Toyotas own Dexron fluid http://www.saber.net/~monarch/typeTDexron.jpg available from Toyota dealers. Some Toyota / Lexus dealers and specialty shops refuse to flush transmissions because there is a small risk of transmission failure soon afterwards and they don't want to take a chance on having to replace a $4,000 transmission every month or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mburnickas Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ok, should I do it at more frequent intervals (same time as oil changes, 3k) for the first few times... and then back to regular intervals? (15k)? ← The least risky, least costly and least complicated procedure is to drain the pan overnight (to get more of the oil fluid out), measure the amount drained and refill with the same amount. Drive the car normally for a day or two and repeat the procedure. A total of 4 times. Then to back to regular intervals (15k). If you have the time and interest, you can also drop the transmission oil pan and clean the pan, the magnets in the pan and the metal mesh fluid strainer, and install a new pan gasket but this isn't critically important until the transmission has alot of miles (150K or more) because the magnets and strainer normally don't get very dirty until 150K or more. The least risky fluid to use is the type of fluid that's engraved on your transmission fluid dipstick (which on your '96 ES is probably Dexron II or III fluid) from a major oil company like Mobil, Chevron, Shell, etc., or Toyotas own Dexron fluid http://www.saber.net/~monarch/typeTDexron.jpg available from Toyota dealers. Some Toyota / Lexus dealers and specialty shops refuse to flush transmissions because there is a small risk of transmission failure soon afterwards and they don't want to take a chance on having to replace a $4,000 transmission every month or two. ← I agree on the flushing part. Flushing a tranny is as bad as added an oil engine flush before changing oil. Asking for issues down the road. But his 96 (up to 2001 I think) all use DEX 3 fluid, not Type T. Then lastly, who does 15K drains here? I never did those even when i used a non synthetic ATF fluid. Always did/do 25 to 45K drains. I will be testing my ATF fluid on this next run. Just to see how it [tranny] is doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan01 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 ok sounds good guys. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviej Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Then lastly, who does 15K drains here? I never did those even when i used a non synthetic ATF fluid. Always did/do 25 to 45K drains. I will be testing my ATF fluid on this next run. Just to see how it [tranny] is doing... ← I do, cause it cost me less than $20 and 20 minutes in my driveway. I do it cause I like to. steviej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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