What Has Mercedes Done?

[SRK]

So in my quest for a 95 or newer LS400 to replace my Camaro, a pal who owns a foreign car repair shop and sells cars too ( I used to work for him) offers me a deal on a 97 E320 - he says it is a much better car than the LS and "has more character". Yeah right.

The Benz idled in such a way that you could feel every cylinder fire. Noisy power steering pump. CD changer in the trunk. Lousy sound from the stereo system too. Touchy brakes, goofy transmission shift program. Looked good inside, nice seats, handled well, but it just didn't do it for me. I passed. He is not pleased. Toughies.

I need another Lexus. I was surprised at the rough feeling of the Benz compared to my 92 LS.

Anyone else experience this with Benzes?

[Em91]

My father has a 95 e320. I was never impressed by it. The car has hard seats you feal many road bumps that are isolated in the ls. The radio is junk and the quality of the whole car is not what I expected in a Benz. My father has owned several brand new Benzes and quality has always been an issue. I am only impressed by the acceleration, the handling is only average. Keep on looking for an LS there are many out there. Good luck.

[99lsguy]

I did test drive a S420 before I bought my LS.....

Beautiful car, perfect condition, More interior room, longer wheelbase, etc....

But - the ride was stiff and the seats were hard. I didn't care for the interior very much either - lots of carpet coming half way up the drivers console - kinda weird to me

The ride mainly turned me off - plus it was interior noise was greater than the LS.

[wandawoods]

stay away from MB as far as you can, period!

speaking with my experience as previous owners of two MB S-class, I can righfully call them as bad as pile of junks! I only have nightmares to speak about them....

[SW03ES]

On any other car its called "crap" on a Mercedes or BMW, its called "character" ;)

[SRK]

On any other car its called "crap" on a Mercedes or BMW, its called "character" ;)

Exactly right. When I told my pal that the Mercedes wasn't my kind of car, and that I wanted a Lexus still, he said that Lexus had "no character". Another pal is prepared to pay $13,000 for an unrestored MGA, and when I said he could get a very nice Mazda Miata for the same money he said the Mazda had "no character". It is a big euphemism for "unreliable" I think.

[labsr4me]

father had, repeat had mercedes; boss has the small sport utility, coworker has e320....ALL have had major electrical issues...the sport utility alone has had 6 battery replacements...

mercedes is crap compared to lexus....local dealership is so arrogant that they make you feel like you should pay them just for the test drive...it's pathetic

[SW03ES]

SRK- LOL, yeah its funny. I'll take my characterless Lexus any day. Hey, whatever makes them sleep at night right? I can understand the MG, thats a cool little car but I don't get why people are so in love with Mercedes. Even BMW has the awesome handling and teutonic feel, but Mercedes doesn't seem to me to have anything to offer but the hood ornament.

[SW03ES]

LOL LOL as to the Mercedes dealer being arrogant I remember when I was helping my dad choose the replacement for his 98 LS400 we went to the Benz dealer, we were walking up the steps and has just reached the door when one of the salesmen jumped in front of him, snatched the door handle out of his grasp, jumped inside and slammed the door right in his face. This man makes $400,000 a year and was shopping for a $90,000 S500 and the salesman just totally stepped on his head. We were both coming from work dressed in suits, got out of an older Lexus, you know prime "we're here to buy a car" people. It was unbelievable, why would anyone buy a car from these people? He went back to the Lexus dealer after that one.

[my ls430]

i own an 99 E430 also. radio is junk. other than that its a great car. power is amazing. i hapen to like the hardseats. coming from a person who has owned 5 german cars 3 vw 5 audi 1 M-B. i am so biased on this subject. i hate things about the mercedes and i hate things about the lexus. what do u want. companies all have the flaws. this is like the vw crowed hating the ricer crowed and the JDM hating USDM. can't we all just get along?...ohh and i saw a maybach today....WOW...

did i mention i drive the merc more often?

my ls430

[SW03ES]

I have no problem with the car, its the mentality of a lot of the owners and dealers. Its the "i'm better than you" or "our car is so wonderful that we can treat you like *BLEEP* and you'll still buy it" mentality of the dealers. Lexus owners and dealers don't have that. That can be seen by the forums, look at Lexus forums then look at MB forums, the MB forums are full of people just sitting around and downing other cars and the people who own them. You don't see that here. One reason for that is we, I in particular, don't allow that but in all honesty we rarely have to stop anyone, Lexus owners just on the whole don't do that.

As for the Maybachs, I agree they're cool but I don't think they have the same road presence as something like a Bentley or Rolls. I saw one on the highway the other day (barreling down at 100MPH weaving in and out of traffic, what a boob) and it didn't strike me as anything really expensive. You have to know what a Maybach is to know that its something really special, to most people it just looks like an S class Benz which are everywhere, not the $350,000 supercar it is. I have also sat in a Maybach at the dealer and they are unreal inside, gorgeous gorgeous car. A Rolls or a Bentley however everyone can recognize. Maybach's best left to those that want to remain inconspicuous I think.

[SKperformance]

I agree with myls

All cars have their quirks.

I would not buy a 97 as it was the first year of the new E

It is slow and troublesome and was much improved after 2000-2001

Never mind the constant replacment of the dashes for the lcd's going and going and going, it is so hard to find one with real milage since they normally always get changed.

[90LS400Lexus]

I agree with SK- the early E320s are not the best cars that Mercedes makes. Compare the smoothness to a 97+ S500. Yes, they are a much more expensive car, but they are much smoother, but maybe more smooth enough for the extreme cost of this automobile. About the ride- the 91 and older S-Class sedans have a much softer, supple suspension.

My 90 LS, even with 234K is smooth (engine and transmission) and I have only ridden in one other LS400- my aunts 90 LS400- now with about 180K and it is super smooth. I remember riding in my aunts 90 LS400 when it had about 80K and it was absolutely like a brand new car. I am sure that a typical 95+ LS400 would be even smoother. I will probably never know that, because with the annoyances I have recently had, I have really become disgusted with the Lexus name in general, even thought I know this is a old, wearing car. I guess what I am the most annoyed with is that the instrument panel padding has hardened so bad (if the interior temperature is less than 80 degrees) and with the firm front suspension, that the car has now has dash "pops" on sharp bumps. It has always been a southern car, but the leather interior is still in great shape, so I was assuming the padded panels would be as well. This can happen to any car though I suppose.

Even my 200K mile 1991 Honda Accord I had a couple of years ago had a tighter interior than this car (less rattles - virtually NONE). The padding seemed like it was higher quality. My 93 Camry was also a super car- 215K and NO rattles/pops and NONE of the problems I currently have with my 90 LS400. It was garaged since new however.

Perhaps its time I get a lower mile 95+ LS? :) - or maybe even another Accord or Camry? ;)

[SW03ES]

I think if you let your experience with a 15 year old car with getting on 300,000 miles make the Lexus name disgust you you're going to be impossiblle to please. That car has lived its life...

[GRAND_LS 4]

I think if you let your experience with a 15 year old car with getting on 300,000 miles make the Lexus name disgust you you're going to be impossiblle to please. That car has lived its life...

That’s exactly what im thinking. An LS is a luxury car, not an economical car. Statistics will tell you that the more bells and whistles you have, the more likely you are to incur problems. So if you can even compare the reliability of the LS to an accord or Camry, that is defiantly a great thing that we are all proud off. 245K on a modern luxury car that you can still compare to cars produced to this date is non-existent.

Maybe you should go and buy a ford or Chevy, those guys have never seen cars roll passed the 130K Mark (esp the newer ones).

[SW03ES]

I have 160,000 miles on my Explorer, but it costs thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to maintain lol.

[90LS400Lexus]

I should have been more clear- the car is not that bad, but what "disgusts" me is that my Honda Accord and Toyota Camry with the about same mileage, seem to have had better interior material quality than my LS, but that is probably not the case, because it looks like this car had a very high quality interior and it still better than most 90' cars. Perhaps with the Accord and Camry I had it was where they were always garaged and the interior did not "harden/shrink", allowing the noises? Most recently it is getting worse. Even today, on the highway, with the cupped tires, I was hearing something around the gear shift making an annoying noise- which is has never done before. I know it is a old 14 year car, with 234K, but it did not do this when I bought it and I have not abused the car- which is why I was suprised that these noises cropped up so quickly. That is one reason I bought a Lexus, because I always thought they were tops in this area, but......

About the comment on the GM or Ford cars not making it past 130K- I will make a few suprises. I had a 1998 Ford Taurus before the LS and it had around 248K, with a perfect running engine, but the transmission was getting weak. My uncle has a 1998 Chevrolet Silverado with 202K miles- running like new. My parents had a 1976 Lincoln Town Car that they purchased when it was not very old. They racked up 310K miles on that tank. I also had a 1994 Chevrolet Lumina with 170K- that used NO oil between changes and the engine and transmission was in perfect working order. Granted, it was a US government car, that received excellent maintainence. To me, it seems as if these days I hear more problems with Japanese cars than American cars.

I agree- *some* of the 80s GM/Ford cars were lucky to make it to 100K. We had a 1981 Oldsmobile Omega that lost the transmission at 73K and a 1985 Buick Regal that lost its transmission @ 88K. In comparison, my 1989 Pontiac Safari stationwagon has 166K, and still runs like new. A lot of it is how they are maintained and cared for.

Hopefully, the person that buys this car will not be as picky as I am. I agree- I am a bit to nitpicky and I may be better off with a low mile Camry/Accord/Land Cruiser/Tacoma/4-Runner.

[SW03ES]

If you're that nitpicky you're simply just not going to be happy with that high mile a car. You can't reflect anything about the car's behavior back to its original quality or the quality of the brand when it has 250,000 miles. Thats all how its been maintained and how its lived its years. You say your parents put 310,000 miles on a Town Car, thats right they did. I don't have any problem driving my 97 Explorer with 160k miles because those miles have been put on by me and I know the car has always been serviced properly, driven properly, cared for properly and parked indoors. You simply have no idea what that car has been through when you buy it with 200,000 miles. MOST people don't care for or drive their cars properly. I'll happily drive my Lexus 100-150,000 miles probably, but I will know exactly how it has been serviced and cared for that whole time. I will be able to make an adequate judgement of Lexus quality.

To say you're disgusted with the quality of the Lexus marque though when you have one thats 14 years old with 250,000 miles only what 30,000 of which have been put on by you is just more than a little unfair. My dad put 160,000 hard miles on his 98 LS400 in just 5 years, it was always serviced and washed weekly, maintained properly both mechanically and cosmetically and it was still a great car when he traded it. No squeaks or rattles, was just starting to vome into some need for expensive maintenance like struts and I think he was having some sort of looseness problem with one of the ball joints that was going to have to be replaced. It never saw the shop for anything other than maintenance. Thats pretty good...

[90LS400Lexus]

If you're that nitpicky you're simply just not going to be happy with that high mile a car. You can't reflect anything about the car's behavior back to its original quality or the quality of the brand when it has 250,000 miles. Thats all how its been maintained and how its lived its years. You say your parents put 310,000 miles on a Town Car, thats right they did. I don't have any problem driving my 97 Explorer with 160k miles because those miles have been put on by me and I know the car has always been serviced properly, driven properly, cared for properly and parked indoors. You simply have no idea what that car has been through when you buy it with 200,000 miles. MOST people don't care for or drive their cars properly.

To say you're disgusted with the quality of the Lexus marque though when you have one thats 14 years old with 250,000 miles only what 30,000 of which have been put on by you is just more than a little unfair.

I agree with you and I really should not have said "disgusted" with Lexus overall, simply because of my LS. If I had a lower mile 90-94 LS, or even a 95+, I would probably be 100% pleased with it. My car was however a 1-owner car, that appears to have seen excellent care. I have seen many 95-96 LS400s with poor interior, but my LS still has nearly perfect interior (including tops of back seat), so I think they took care of it at least in that aspect. I just do not understand why these dash noises appeared so quickly, but who knows? There are at least- no cracks on the dash. I recently looked at a LOW mile 1994 Toyota Camry, with 104K, 1-owner miles for a work car. When I got there I was amazed at the condition. It had holes in the seats, the dash top was badly faded and it literally had hundreds of small cracks in it- something I have never seen before. It looked like what swiss cheese would look like if it had lines, rather than holes. It was still however soft and pliable, which is amazing. It also had numerous dents and scratches. Mechanically, it was probably a fine car, but the appearance alone made me re-think. They had purchased a brand new 2005 VW Jetta and it had already looked like it had a few dings on it. They have a two car garage- but the owner said the garage was always full of junk, so no room for the cars.

My old 93' Camry on the other hand had 215K, but was also a 1-owner GARAGE kept car- that was still like brand new. Also- NO rattles. I really wish I had of kept that car. <_<

[SW03ES]

Even if it had excellent care taken of it though, at 250,000 miles even perfectly maintained components are going to be reaching their maximum life.

As for the dash plastic that is odd. All the Lexus' I've seen on used lots always have very well preserved materials. Lexus chooses the interior materials on these cars so that they all age at a relatively comparable rate.

You know, I bet at one time some sort of silicone based dressing was used on the dash. Armor All for instance used to be a silicone based dressing. Silicone dressings should never be used on non.wear items (anything other than tires) like dashes because while they will protect the dash the silicone dries the material out and once you stop using it it will greatly accelerate the process and can cause it to crack. Thats my bet on why its so dry. That may also explain the little creaks as that material is getting more more brittle. You might want to try cleaning the dash top well and applying a good water based dressing like 303 Aerospace or Poorboys Natural Look to see if that will rejuvinate it somewhat.

[90LS400Lexus]

Even if it had excellent care taken of it though, at 250,000 miles even perfectly maintained components are going to be reaching their maximum life.

As for the dash plastic that is odd. All the Lexus' I've seen on used lots always have very well preserved materials. Lexus chooses the interior materials on these cars so that they all age at a relatively comparable rate.

You know, I bet at one time some sort of silicone based dressing was used on the dash. Armor All for instance used to be a silicone based dressing. Silicone dressings should never be used on non.wear items (anything other than tires) like dashes because while they will protect the dash the silicone dries the material out and once you stop using it it will greatly accelerate the process and can cause it to crack. Thats my bet on why its so dry. That may also explain the little creaks as that material is getting more more brittle. You might want to try cleaning the dash top well and applying a good water based dressing like 303 Aerospace or Poorboys Natural Look to see if that will rejuvinate it somewhat.

Very good possibility SW. I have been using "Lexol" on the instrument panel as well. Was this a "no-no"? I heard it was the best for the leather seats, so I assumed it was good for the instrument panel as well. Perhaps I am the one that "destroyed" the instrument panel covering? The dash is now only "soft" if the interior is hot inside, or if the sun has been shining on it. I too have always thought that Lexus was one of the #1 auto makes of quality materials. I know that most Toyotas are and Lexus is Toyotas flagship- so overall it should be even better. That one noise I heard this morning may have come from something entirely different. Maybe something in the console. I really cannot complain about these noises, because I have heard other owners complain of rattles in their late 90s ES300s, as well as some rattling issues in many of the GS300/400s- even into the early 2000s.

[jbarhorst2]

Many of the dressings out there that people like to use are very harmful to the interior materials. Leather is another material that has very specific needs. Once you dry out the natural oils in the leather or the plastisols in the interior plastics it is virtually impossible to revive these materials. Sunlight (UV exposure) is also the worst thing for your interiors. UV rays destroy most interior materials, it is just a waiting game. The more your car is in a covered area, the better off you are. The same goes for your paint. The UV blockers in your paint finish can only resist so much exposure. If your coating has thinned (due to polishing) then you will not have as much protection. If the coating was thin from the factory you will see it start to peel after a while. If your coating did not have the proper amount of UV blockers added in when it was manufactured then your paint will peel. Remember the medium blue GM cars in the late 80s??? I'm sure you probably have also seen the Chrysler cars with the peeling clearcoat. That's another example. Sunlight is deadly to our cars. We need to do our best to protect them.

[SKperformance]

remember each car had a life before yo withsome other owner and some other dirty mans hand under it.

Those 2 people have shaped the life of your car for you ,you have what is left of the original design depengin on how they maintained it.

[90LS400Lexus]

And the "Lexol" was good/bad for the dash?

remember each car had a life before yo withsome other owner and some other dirty mans hand under it.

Those 2 people have shaped the life of your car for you ,you have what is left of the original design depengin on how they maintained it.

←

[SW03ES]

I wouldn't use Lexol on the dash, only on leather materials. Lexol makes another product, Vinylex that is designed for parts such as the dash. I don't know if the Vinylex CAUSED that damage but it won't offer any protection against it.