SW03ES

Yeah keep looking. The LS is a great car and is one of the best used car buys out there, if you take your time and really find the right one, it will deliver great service for a LONG time...

I mean...I don't see how that data can lead you to the conclusion that:

I would have the suspension looked at by a qualified mechanic who is familiar with these cars (a Lexus specialist), even a dealer if nothing else is available. This could be minor, or VERY expensive and you should know before you buy it...

I know, I've always kind of thought that... I remember the same discussions around 2005-2006 before all the new models came out.

I don't think the issue for Lexus is really one of perception, that seems to have died off, I think its more that almost all of their models are ripe for redesign, and delays in rolling those new models out due to the Tsunami. Its largely the same problem with Acura, although Acura has a *really* tired lineup at this point... Think about it, the only Lexus vehicle out right now that isn't an SUV and is less than 5-6 years old is the Ct200h. The LS, ES, GS, IS...all from '06. '07 model year for all but the GS, but they came out in '06 just the same.

Ah! Sorry about that, I retract my sarcastic response ;)

But why change it if its an industry typical setup, and one that their owners are happy with?

Do you have some kind of source for this? All the data I've seen has shown that luxury car sales are hanging in there...

Yeah that's how mine works. In my Jeep however you turn the dimmer knob up all he way and EVERY light comes on, map lights, etc. That light turns the lights on that come on when the doors are opened. I'm not sure what the point of your line "yes WHILE driving" was. If it was some sort of dig at me for what I said about not turning around to look at a baby in the back seat while hurtling down the road at whatever speed in a 4,000 lb weapon. I bet the woman who hit me, totaled her car and risked all our lives including that of her child won't do something so stupid again.

I'll have to try that switch. Did you try it? That turns on the overhead light, but shouldn't turn on the rear map lights or the front map lights.

I'm not laughing at all, nobodys saying they aren't great cars. I'm just saying without a luxury brand they're never going to have the same commercial success Lexus has had in e US. As an aside, I too thought the LWB LS was a little barge-esque.

Not really...the topic was the Genesis compared to the Lexus ES, and we're discussing Hyundai's effort to compete with luxury nameplates like Lexus without its own luxury branding division...

They are premium in regards to the niche they serve, not their price. Like I said, Jennifer Lopez has a Fiat, my coworker traded a Mercedes GLK for her Smart, the Mini has been the focus of movies and has a racing heritage. They are a completely different category than an Elantra, no matter what they cost. The Smart is not an economy car, like I said it's not something one buys because it's all they can afford, the Elantra is. Nobody "wants" an Elantra, they do "want" a Smart or Mini. See, you've illustrated the problem. What we're really talking about here is new buyers, you've shown why the Ls460L is a better value overall from a new purchase than the Equus despite the Equus being significantly cheaper upfront. That's precisely why I did not choose the Genesis over the ES. Here's the thing though, if the lease payments were the same I might have, Only way to do that because the residuals are so poor is to subsidize the lease. I think they should do that. Sure it's a great value if you buy it 3 years old and drive it until it's 200k miles. However, even with 200k mikes someone will buy your LS and pay you several thousand dollars. My guess is you would have to donate a 15 year old 200,000 mile Equus, it would have no value.

Lexus has used a gated shifter for a long time, I like it a lot because it's impossible to over-shoot the selection you're looking for. It was actually copied by Lexus from Mercedes in the late 90s. Most carmakers now use a gated shifter. I personally don't like the joystick style shifter BMW is using now. I still like a mechanical linkage.

The Mini is premium car. Buddy of mine just got a 328i and he was also closely considering a Mini. the Smart is the same way, woman I know traded her Mercedes GLK on a Smart. Totally different than an Elantra or Corolla, etc.

Smart cars are a different thing. A Smart is like a Mini or a Fiat, it's not an economy car. It's a premium, European niche car. If you look at the demographics of who buys a Smart and who buys a Hyundai Elantra, they are *very* different. There is a sort of prestige to owning a Smart, it isn't something one buys because it's all they can afford...same as a Mini or Fiat. Jennifer Lopez drives a Fiat and a Smart...she doesn't drive an Elantra. Anyways, even if it were the same thing, the Smart is not the same brand as the S65. Do you think people would buy en masse a $200,000 Smart? That's a better analogy.

I'm the first person to sing their praises, I know they've come a long way and truly I would buy a lot of their models over similar Toyota models. BUT, being seen as a equal to Toyota and Honda is a completely different thing than being seen as a luxury marque. It will never be considered an equal to Lexus, BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc as long as they are branded alongside an $8,000 Elantra. No mater how incredible the cars are. In the US they need a brand to build prestige with.

The LS400 was a different situation though, they had a brand to market and they were able to provide world class customer service that turned heads and got them noticed. Once they could associate prestige to the brand, and they were able to do that fairly quickly it took off. Lexus was able to use the initial incredible value of the car, coupled with a dealer and ownership experience that buyers could not get from anybody else, to great success. Because there is no specific marketing division and brand for the Equus and Genesis, Hyundai doesn't have the ability to do that. I don't think anybody is saying these cars are a joke, if anything they get good reviews and such, but they aren't connecting to the sales success Hyundai is looking for, and the reason for that in my opinion is that they have no brand, and America is VERY brand conscious. People saw the LS400 in 1990 and they were able to say "Hey, thats one of those new Lexus things right". People see the Genesis and they have no idea what it is...they actually sell the foreign Genesis emblem to people and people buy the emblems and whole new airbag covers because they are ashamed of the Hyundai logo. How to you build brand recognition when people are doing things like that? You won't see Hyundai becoming the biggest luxury automaker in the US as Lexus did, when they are also selling $8,000 Hyundai Elantras. Would Lexus have been as successful in the US if the LS400 had been a Toyota? I don't believe so. You have people, like you Jim that don't care about the brand image...but you are not the typical consumer.

No surprise. I've said several times that I extensively compared the ES350 and the Genesis. The Genesis is without a doubt more car for the money. For what a UL ES350 costs you can have a loaded V8RWD Genesis thats bigger, has better performance obviously, and has more features. What it does not have, and ultimately what made me go for the Lexus is Lexus reputation, prestige, ownership experience or projected resale value. I leased the Lexus for business, and the lease payments on a Genesis were $120 a month more because of the very poor residual value at the end of the lease. I think thats the achilles heel of Hyundai's plan for this car and the Equus. People will spend for a used Lexus because its a Lexus. The Genesis may be an awesome car, but 3-4 years down the line which one is someone going to be more interested on the pre-owned lot? A luxury car purchase is not just about the physical car itself, buyers are buying into a lifestyle and things like the dealer experience, ownership experience, and ultimately what their friends at the office and country club think when they roll up in it. Hyundai just doesn't deliver there. We saw a loaded Equus at a mall yesterday, a huge value no doubt optioned like a loaded $85k LS460L for $65k. BUT, if the vehicle is leased (a LOT of them are) then the payments are actually the same because of the Equus' poor residual value. Plus...if you're already spending $65k, I'd rather get a lowly LS460 SWB for the same money. On top of that, as the economy improves, consumption is getting cool again. There for a while in '08 and '09, it was cool to fly under the radar but you're seeing that shift away. So, ultimately I'm not as bullish on Hyundai's success with this luxury experiment as I was a couple years ago.

Installing it amounts to plugging in a USB stick to the console and pushing a button too.

Hahaha! I love it!

I understand your frustration with this poster Blue, but resurrecting an old finished thread with what really amounts to flamebait isn't the right approach. Best to let sleeping dogs lie. You're new here so just a friendly warning, but that kind of thing can put your account in jeopardy.

The Michelins the RX came with, the MXV4 S8 are not what I would buy. If you want the smoothest ride, I'd buy the Michelin Primacy MXV4. Much better tire than the S8, has a treadwear warranty (not sure who told Scott the S8 was supposed to be a "50k mile tire", it has no treadwear warranty), smoother and quieter than the S8. You could go to a 17 inch tire (you could just buy the OEM 17s for the RX...

No, there is no "All lights on" switch in a Lexus, but there are maplights back there the rear passengers can turn on. One thing I would suggest, since I was rear-ended one time by a mother who did exactly that, turned around to look at their toddler while driving the car. I would stop the vehicle before I did that, and/or install a mirror that looks back on the rear seat so I can do that without taking my attention off the road.

Lexus is different, the two aren't really comparable.