93LSOwner Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 SW03ES: I don't mean any disrespect to you and to anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 blake, you can always find examples to the contrary, but I have proved that just because something costs more does not absolutely mean its better. All I'm saying is be skeptical of information you take in. Don't automatically assume that because something is better because it costs more or because it comes from a manufacturer you "trust". Everyone have a motive. You mentioned this site, well I wouldn't take this site as very valid information when it comes to the relative comparisons of Lexus vs. other makes. You need to look at a LOT of information from a LOT of different sources and then use that information to make the best decisions you can for yourself. If everyone would do this before they fork over their money our business world would have a lot more integrity. As someone who owns a business let me tell you, there are SO MANY dishonest businesses out there, you almost HAVE to be dishonest to stay alive. People are so used to inflated lies that they're not interested in the "truth" that you have to offer because its not exciting enough. You say there's something called trust and common sense. Thats true, but you can't be TOO trusting. These people are out to do one thing and one thing only, make money. If they have to swindle you into buying an inferior product to do it then they will. Take Lexus for example. Talk to an audio installer or mechanic that has had the vehicles apart. They will tell you that there are a lot of differences in older Lexuses (your generation) and newer Lexuses (my generation), the new ones are not built as solid nor are they as over engineered. Whats happening here is Lexus has established their reputation as building "the best quality cars on the road" and now they've started scaling back the quality to increase the bottom line. In a lot of ways its better to buy the underdog because they try harder, you wind up with a better product that costs less. As for the paper, yes "everything comes back to the same thing" but we're talking its the exact same paper. From the same roll even, just put into two different boxes. Its EXACTLY the same. Maybe, that’s why some quoting: “some” business leaders are a lot wealthier than some lets say doctors with Ph.D. and some descent ethics & morals. But should we just say that lying to the American people is okay because they're "wealthy" and successful? A lot of criminals are very wealthy also but they're still criminals. Ideally we'd like to have people get wealthy by actually coming out with great products, not by fooling consumers into thinking their crap is good. Thats why we're in this boat that we're in, all of America's problems come back to one thing, all we care about is money. We'd burn our mothers alive if it meant that we could have lots of money for the rest of our lives. Eventually when the rest of the world shifts away from that (which they're already starting to do) we're going to become obsolete. Look at the car market. Other countries put quality and engineering first, America builds cars so that they will make the maximum amount of money. Is Toyota in financial trouble? No, but Ford and GM are. As a matter of fact Ford has been examining declaring bankruptcy. They make some of the highest volume selling vehicles on the road and they can't make enough money, their market share dwindles and dwindles every quarter while Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW can't keep enough cars on their lots. My predictions, within the next 10 years America will have no more car companies, both Ford and GM will be bought as Chrysler was. Why is that? Because they played the American people for fools for decades and built crappy cars. Americans bought them because they bought into their crap. Then all of a sudden it catches up with them and we have high profile scandals like the Firestone deal and the underdogs are right there to say "c'mon over". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 blake, you can always find examples to the contrary, but I have proved that just because something costs more does not absolutely mean its better. Ahh the contrary...the beauty of a debate! ;) I would say that I had a pretty good counter point for atleast half of them though. :D I see what you're saying, and I agree with you to a certain extent...my thoughts are that MOST of the time you do indeed get what you pay for. Can you define "better" for me? I know that the ES is better than the V6 Camry, but wouldn't you agree that you do get something extra-we'll call it the "Lexus Experience" to sum up all of the extras-for the extra money you pay for the car? Top on that list is 100% more prestige than the Camry. right? While I agree with you that MB's are typically no good, can't you say that you do get something extra for the extra money you fork up? Prestige comes to the very front of my mind while quality is rearmost! So, does Prestige fall under your definition of better? Maybe not, but you do get something for the extra money you pay for the car/food/etc which is my point. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBdenny Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I guess I never thought of trying regular gasoline in the Lexus. I put regular in all my other cars, but none of the recommend premium. I rented a Cadillac one time when I was in Seatlle and we drove to BC. At first I was pretty excited seeing gas so cheap, but then I realized they sell it by the litre. I said what the hell, it's a rental and put regular in (even though it was labled premium only). I never heard such a racket of pinging knocking and other annoying noises. If it had been my own car, it really would have bothered me. Since we rarely put more than 10,000 - 12,000 miles a year on the Lexus, it doesn't make all that much difference I guess to pay the extra. I pumped the air pressure on the tires up to 38pis all around and picked up about 3 or 4 mpg. The handling is certainly better. The tires say max pressure 44psi, and they seem to sit better. We got about 26.1mpg on Interstate driving and I was doing 85 to 90 most of the time. Still not as good as my 92 Caprice which pulls in nearly 30mpg on the Interstates, but it does have a wicked overdrive. Going 65-70 in the Caprice drops the milage down around 24-25 mpg. I figure this is because it drops to 3rd for every incline. I hardly ever use cruise control, only when I want to stretch my foot for a minute, then it's off. Cruise control will only get you better milage on absolutely flat terrain, on hills it really drops it because it brakes down the hills the accelaerates up them. I accelerate down and ease up them to keep it in 4th. Regarding the paper issue... I guess the only expensive paper I uses is toilet paper. There is one place it is tough to save money. The stuff we have at work is similar to newsprint in every respect but the print. I guess if I had a business or something I would spend more on print paper. There are many ways to save money on gasoline. I use one of my smaller cars like my pickup or Corolla 5 speed around town and save the Lexus and Caprice for highway driving. I can get by without luxury going to Food Lion. Interesting thread though. Denny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSsoldier Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 We're on the verge of buying an '04 LS430.The gas prices have us reeling! We know that the specs say premium gas is necessary just like they did on our Lincoln Navigator. But people at the Lincoln dealer told us to use regular gas and we have for 3 years without problems. Does anyone operate the LS430 with lowest grade fuel? thats the topic guys... i knwo im not anything big here but instead of arguing amongst ourselfs about paper and computer brands lets help this guy out!!! gas is all up to u if u cant pay the prices or dont want to pay the prices then try with the regular u proably will spend more time in the shop then other LS but hey LS dont spend time in the shop much so your fine, but to be honest having premium gas or regular gas doesnt make the normal everyday driver feel a difference... but if u are one of those guys that can just tell something is the little bit off go with the premium other then that maybe just look into a different type of car most cars within the LS's range hinting towards BMW and Benz mostly require u use premium too.... so wouldnt u rather have a car that can last more then 10 years and go to the shop once a year or a car that needs to go more then once a year? its all u paul... ITS AMERICA USE YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRK Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I get the feeling where we are going with all this is to further emphasize that we should all be "informed consumers". Do your homework, don't rely or trust the experiences of others, and see for yourself, because it is your money. And then spend it to make yourself happy. If you never use or demand full power from your Lexus, then use the lower octane. The engine will compensate, you will not hear a ping, and the engine won't hurt itself. If it makes you happy to spend more on premium, then do that. I punch the hell out of the gas pedal whenever the wife lets me drive the thing, and I want to race everybody. Keeps me young. I keep 92 in the car. Hit 170 kmh and smoked some punk in a new beetle the other night. If I drove like my mother, 89 would be fine. It is like mechanics. Some fill their tool boxes with nothing but Snap-On tools, and won't think of buying anything else. So they spend two to three times as much, and get a flimsy jacket as a bonus. Not me. I work on Ferrari's with whatever I have in the roll cab. Craftsman, Proto, Snap-on, Hazet, Westward, Gray, whatever. My repairs work out just fine. I don't have an account at the Snap-On store, and my house has been paid off for eight years. That makes me happy, not bragging about "nothin' but Snap-On in this here box"..... Life is short. I could give a damn about paper. Some people do. That's fine. I worry more about my lawn. Seiko - great watch. Cheap reliable. I know two posers in my town with Rolexes. They both go on and on about the cost of repairs. Repairs? To a watch?! Yes they say, last time cost me $450.00.....My cell phone keeps time for me now. Do what makes you happy, but don't expect others to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 We need to get GS some punctuation marks, I think he's all out ;) I think we did help him, but that doesn't mean we can't debate amognst ourselves. blake, thats just my point, you have to examine WHAT you are getting for the money. Different people get different things out of products. The description of "getting what you pay for" is different for everyone. My point is you have to make up your own mind as to whats important to you and don't let advertisers and companies do it for you. Next time you find an ad, for anything, be it TV or print look at it closely for a few minutes and see if you can identify a few things. MOST ads manipulate people with imagery, even subliminal writing and pictures (most ads include the word "s*x" imbedded somewhere, and most have some sort of sexual imagery imbedded in them, ESPECIALLY car, alcohol, cigarette, and perfume ads). Think about this, if their product were really so great, and you really had to have it, why would they have to resort to subconcious influence to sell it? A lot of what you "want" you really don't want at all, you've just been programmed to want it. SRK is exactly what an "informed skeptical consumer" should be. He has decided for himself where his priorities are, and refuses to let advertisers and product companies manipulate him into buying things he does not need or want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSsoldier Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 We need to get GS some punctuation marks, I think he's all out man im in highschool but i cant think of what punctuation marks are HELP haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 thats the topic guys... i knwo im not anything big here but instead of arguing amongst ourselfs about paper and computer brands lets help this guy out!!! It's hardly an arguement! It's just a friendly debate. :D Plus, we alrady answered his question, so we can have a little fun now. ;) I know we must see where the money is going, but you said that just because something is more expensive, it doesn't gaurantee anything extra whatsoever while I'm saying that the higher price will usually gaurantee something extra whether it comes inside the box or not. I definantly don't let other's dictate what I should like; I think it's flat out rude! I'm pretty immune to peer pressure. I think I'm one of the few that would pay extra money for an OEM product rather than a more stylish aftermarket piece; trust me I know it's not "cool," but I like it, and I especially love beige cars and strongly dislike black...don't stone me!! It's no doubt that s*x does sell(to some atleast); I suppose that's why it's everywhere. However, I can't say that the sexy women on deodorant and other bath product commercials make me want to run out and buy the good like old spice, axe, etc. I will say that the cool, Jazzy music on Lincoln commercials makes me want to march out and buy one though! Craftsman are great tools. Plus, when you break it, you give a new one..free! I never realized how many of us are in high school. Only 9 more days for me though. muhahaha :D Just throw in a period, comma, or semi colon here and there, and you'll be ok! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSsoldier Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 ohh period commas and other punctiations are a waste of time get to the heart of write and u will see that true writing from the hear needs not punctuations hahaha I never realized how many of us are in high school. Only 9 more days for me though. muhahaha i have much hate for u i dont get out of school until june 19 and then i have senoir year!!! yet i must find a way to get enough money for a GS430!!!!! EDIT/ addition haha now im straying from the topic haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 We need to get GS some punctuation marks, I think he's all out man im in highschool but i cant think of what punctuation marks are HELP haha You won't learn it in HS, then your profs in college will mark you off for not knowing it and expound in class about how they have to deal with the pathetic products of Americas schools. Thats the wonder of our educational system lol ;) blake, but see thats the trick, its SUBLIMINAL stimuli, you don't know that you aren't supposed to precieve it conciously. You ARE effected by the subliminal stimuli that is embedded in advertisements. I have some that have the stimuli highlighted that I will see if I can post. I took a class on this in college and its about the most fun you can have with 30 minutes and a magazine, its like solving a puzzle or doing a magic eye. Some of the things they put in ads are downright unbelieveable. Once you see through the veil they put up, you'll never look at an ad or a product company the same way again. Masters of manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 i have much hate for u i dont get out of school until june 19 and then i have senoir year!!! yet i must find a way to get enough money for a GS430!!!!!EDIT/ addition haha now im straying from the topic haha Senior privliges my friend! B) The other boys at my school atleast get out at the end of May; why do you go until June 19?? Stray away; it's quite fun! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Thats the wonder of our educational system lol ;) That's why my parents send me to an all boys, private, high school! Plus with LA being last or second to last in education, our public schools are awful and quite unsafe(school shootings, fighting). Although my school is single sexed...ughh, I am getting a good education, and I should with their tuition prices(my parents will actually save money with me going to college next year!). lol The subliminal stimuli sounds very interesting. I guess the Lincoln commercial was a bad ex. because I love Lincolns. I'd drive a TC especially the 03+(the best driving position I've ever experienced), LS(probably the best suspension tuning for under $35k, and it simply looks stunning!), Nav, etc. any day! I suppose the GM commercials with the "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing" song would fit the discussion better since I hate GM vehicles, but I love that commercial! The song certainly does grab my attetnion and make me want to watch it. What's the deal with all the jazz tunes?(probably a lot of experiments to see how people react to specific genres.) Even better is the guy's voice on the Lexus commercials. It's very cool, kinda majestic to me for some reason. I do enjoy watching the commercials with the hot women on them, but 95% of those products I'd never buy even with the pretty ladies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddLS400 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I'm putting only 87gas in my LS right now and I'm never gonna put anything higher. I personally firmly believe that higher octane doesn't affect anything, and if it does, it's too little for me to notice. I run 87 only on my fuel injected Suzuki GSXR sportbike, this engine is definitely more finicky and tells you if your oil sucks/filters are bad/(cant think of any more little parts off the top of my head right now) and it doesn't make a single hiccup or ping (I HAVE had pings before, when the bike was brand new, I actually could feel it with the engine under me) as i string it out at 10-14,000 rpm on the freeway and empty straightaways. My bike eats it up just fine, my lower-tech (yes yes, it IS an advanced engine compared to most other cars, but it's not as high-tolerance and super-fine tuned like a race engine) Lexus will do just as well. Just my 2 cents. I would NOT put regular unleaded in my GSXR750. No way. Why? It's only about 4.8 gallons so the difference is $1 or more. You're driving a sportsbike that's made for performance, not a car. Get as much extra HP as possible because it's fun. I do feel a difference between reg & prem in my bike. It's tuned for premium. Regular unleaded in your Gixxer??? OK....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Good to see you again Todd! blake- If you ever have the opportunity in college to take a Persuasion course, its under Communications take it. Thats the class where I learned about all the advertising, why they do what they do etc. Its a great class (although I suppose that would depend on the Prof and the school). At GW it was really hard, one of the top 5 hardest, but a very interesting course taught by the chair of the Comm department. I'll scan in some of the ads tomorrow and post them. I'll post them first unhighlighted to see what you can see ;) There are a couple of books you can pick up, Subliminal Seduction by Wilson Key that talks about a lot of ads and gives examples, and Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman that talks about the declining state of integrity from advertisers and product companies, again using real world examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93LSOwner Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Well, since the answer to the question of this post is answered[mostly]. We can start new topics with in it. Hope nobody minds! I never realized how many of us are in high school. Only 9 more days for me though. I say "goodbye" to my HS on May 22. When I was a freshman, I really didn’t like going to school. My brother was a senior and I was a freshman. I saw how all the teachers knew him and students personally. EVERY single teacher he had in the past, talk about him and some of them know me by him; that I’m his brother. Plus, I saw him receive all these awards and go off to a very nice college [NC State]. After that year, I started to take honors classes and really started to study hard, my sophomore year became my first year in which I got straight A’s. After that were the AP [advance placement] classes. That freshmen year still haunts my GPA and haunted my chances of getting into NC’s top colleges. MAN, now I don’t want to leave. Because I just started to like HS. Think about the pressure, what will college be like? Will it be like the AP classes I took in HS? The second reason, why I don’t want to leave: Because I just bought my LS and just started to show off. Lol. Blake: I would love to attend to your school. The reason why I like AP classes than others is because you learn so much from it and remember from them, especially from the intelligent fellow class mates. But, no girls! Man. I’m not the “Ladies man,” but, who are you going to wear nice clothes for? And do your hair? Comb your hair? Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93LSOwner Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Steve: How was college different from HS from your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I know just how you feel, I had just started to like HS and feel like I belonged there when I had to leave. I had a tough time adjusting to college. Basically though I found that all my worrying about college was wasted time, because it wasn't anything like everyone said it would be. You always hear "In college you won't be able to do this" or "in college you won't be able to do that" or "in college nobody's going to care" and while that may be true in some schools, it wasn't in mine nor was it in any of the colleges my HS friends wound up going to. Dealing with Professors and advisors is completely different than dealing with HS teachers. Profs will treat you like an equal, like an adult. They WANT to deal with you and help you. One thing that you really have to get used to is the downtime. When I was in HS I spent 8 hours a day in class. In college you'll spend 3, maybe 4. Maybe less. It depends on how you do your schedule. So that means there is a lot of downtime and a lot less structure. You're tempted to just loaf around and wait to the last minute to get done what you need to get done, but you have to manage your time. Let me put it to me this way, I had time to grow a successful business, detail cars for profit, AND go to school. Thats why kids in college get into so much crap because they have so much downtime. Another thing you'll have to get used to is being responsible for your own life. Being in college is really like having a career. You have to be shrewd at times, get into the good graces of the right people, suck up your pride sometimes, and make decisions about which direction you want to take it. Where you end up at the end is entirely up to you, you choose the path you want to take and how you want to take it. This I never experienced but dorm life is really an adjustment to make. I spent a lot of time around dorms and in dorms, its just an entirely different lifestyle. In a lot of ways its going to seem childish, dealing with roomates, who'se space is who's, whats Jack going to do about his girlfriend back home, he said she said etc etc. But in a lot of ways it seems to be a real test track for life. You learn a lot about how to deal with people and how to deal with yourself. College is going to be a great experience if you make it a great experience, MUCH better than HS. This time next year you're not going to be able to imagine how you endured a day of HS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSsoldier Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 why do you go until June 19?? well blake according to my high school in california, we are lazy bums that dont go to class, so to correct this problem my school district has placed extra holidays within the year for example, longer winter break, days off on random days, a week of in febuary things like this too make people wnat to go to school more, but in doing this they have to add more school days, and also in doing this they make the kids feel more relaxed and are edged not to work harder, which in turn causes more cutting class and that just causes the problem that they were trying to fix.... i think i dragged it on for too long the answer to that is in there somewhere im a ninja i (eat) for breakfast, some times i :snoooorrrtttt: and my eyes look like this and then its the end haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 But, no girls! Man. I’m not the “Ladies man,” but, who are you going to wear nice clothes for? And do your hair? Comb your hair? Lol. Comb my hair?? Gosh, I can't think of the last time I've done that! J/K, I'll only comb my hair if it's sticking up or something like that just so I don't look too much like a clown! Since my school is private, we all wear the same uniform(down to the loafers and socks) day in and day out--no need to dress up! Believe it or not there are some perks with no girls at school: like the appearance things you mentioned, they don't matter because who are you trying to look good for?? Other guys? Nope! Also, no girls makes for a much easier day simply because you aren't worring about them or what you're doing in front of them etc. And probably best of all we can just be guys! I agree; it would be nice to show off the LS! We don't really have to worry about offending any girls, disguting them, etc(you'd be suprised where class discussions go with 20 guys in the room!). Probably the most fascinating thing is how my female teachers will agree with us on how much trouble girls are! lol There are some downsides too, but it's really not as bad as you are imagining. My high school experience has been quite the opposite of your's and Steve's. I started at my school in 8th grade(that's just what we do here for some reason! I haven't gone to school with girls since 7th grade! Wow!), and I've enjoyed all 4 years with the exception of my senior year which is supposed to be the best! Frankly, this year ranks quite low on the scale; my junior year was definantly the best. I suppose I dislike this year so much because I'm just burnt out and going to school for 8 and a half hours doesn't help any. I just can't leave quick enough at the end of the day; I've never been this way in 4 years! I'm looking foward to the college days where I won't go anymore than 4 hours a day. Steve, you and many others all agree when yall say how did I ever go to school for 8 hours a day? Steve, I'm sure I'll get to learn more than I want to about advertising because I'm going to be a business major! What business did you start in college(If you don't mind sharing)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93LSOwner Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I'm going to be a business major! I knew from the begaining that I was going to major in Biology. I was thinking about major in Business or marketing too. But, then decided to go with Biology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBdenny Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Thanks so much guys for making me feel old. College is a test of your ability to pursue your horizons. I have an Associates, Bachelors, and Masters degree and then maybe 20 something hours beyond, so I have sat through many many classes. Sometimes, it was a lot like work. But...... College rocks, the best time of your life. You meet the most incredible people (both students and teachers), have the best parties, and learn how interaction with others works effectively, and just enjoy your life. My daughter is a freshman at Virginia Tech in engineering, and she told me that it is much harder than high school ever was. She was amazed that they were expected to know stuff. Keeping her busy for sure. I admire all you guys in high school and college that have such drive. Owning a Lexus while in high school seems like a good thing to me. denny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 blake, I do customer retention systems sales and training for car dealerships, realtors, and watercraft/RV dealerships. I teach dealerships how to best make customers feel special, turn sales business over to service, and retain customers while generating referral sales and provide them with the neccisary equipment to do so, inventory management systems, gift programs, contact lists etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngdoog Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Isn't someone going to step in and stop these juvenile postings which have become a rant by former high school/college immature dopes regarding their worthless life to date? I could have sworn this was a Lexus LS400/430 discussion group. Copy paper, subliminal messages...Maybe the group needs to be sorted by maturity. Jesus, they'll be comparing pimple medications soon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VBdenny Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 come on now doog, this is a discusssion among friends. I can't see where this hurts anyone. Besides, what is maturity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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