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LEXIRX330

Crazy Sob!

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We've been thinking about trading the Prius in on an SUV...I went and drove the new Jeep Grand Cherokee and the new Ford Explorer. I had a very annoying Ford salesman (man...you really do slum it when you go down to a non-luxury brand in the dealer network). We were driving the Explorer, drove it around the block. He asked me what my wife drove...told her a Prius. He asked me what I drove...told him a Lexus. He looks at me and says "Shame on you, how can you drive foreign cars and put Americans out of work?" Now...this guy could barely speak english...

I put the car in park and told him that I worked hard for my living and bought what I wanted, and if Ford and GM could build a car that wasn't a complete peice of !Removed! and lost 70% of its value in 3 years, serviced and sold by dealership personnel who could put a complete sentence together and didn't look like they belonged working in a shipyard...I'd be happy to drive one. Got out of the Explorer...got in my Lexus...and drove away LOL

I love it. Sometimes you just have to let it out. I see the salesman forgot to mention that a great deal of the Ford parts are made in Mexico and Canada.

Paul

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We've been thinking about trading the Prius in on an SUV...I went and drove the new Jeep Grand Cherokee and the new Ford Explorer. I had a very annoying Ford salesman (man...you really do slum it when you go down to a non-luxury brand in the dealer network). We were driving the Explorer, drove it around the block. He asked me what my wife drove...told her a Prius. He asked me what I drove...told him a Lexus. He looks at me and says "Shame on you, how can you drive foreign cars and put Americans out of work?" Now...this guy could barely speak english...

I put the car in park and told him that I worked hard for my living and bought what I wanted, and if Ford and GM could build a car that wasn't a complete peice of !Removed! and lost 70% of its value in 3 years, serviced and sold by dealership personnel who could put a complete sentence together and didn't look like they belonged working in a shipyard...I'd be happy to drive one. Got out of the Explorer...got in my Lexus...and drove away LOL

Well I actually love the New Jeep Grand Cherokee...and so does my wife. I told her if she wants it take the X5 and let's see what they will do. She says she's keeping the X5, and going to take my GX in a few years... :unsure: She said she doesn't mind my hand me downs! (I wouldn't either if I didn't have to pay for them!) Hell every time I get in the X5 the Fing GAS light is on... :cries:

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I love the new Grand Cherokee. I'd buy it in an instant if she would let me trade the Prius. I'll work on her...

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Let me respond to a few points. I know I won't change any minds, but I have to correct inaccuracies:

Guns, simply put, suck. They are designed to offer nothing, produce nothing, generate nothing, make nothing....but death, misery, and tragedy.

This is incorrect. I own 21 guns, only 6 of which have resulted in the death of anything. I guess the rest are defective. The guns that have killed something produced food for me and my family. Those that have not killed anything produce pleasure. Think of target shooting as really loud darts.

Worst day in the history of the NRA would be me being elected as President, because the first thing I would do is outlaw ALL guns to everyone except the military

First off, as the President, you cannot do this. The Congress makes the laws, not the President. Maybe you should return to high school civics class. Secondly, you cannot do this as it would be unconstitutional (see below).

- which by the way, some believe the Right to Bear Arms is meant to be enforced - allow this country to form an army and give them the tools to defend the land.

This is 100% incorrect. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right to allow citizens to arm themselves for a variety of reasons, the most important being self defense. So you would be a President who disagrees with the Constitution and the Supreme Court, and who wants to make the laws himself. You sound like a dictator. What's your name so I know never to vote for you.

Not walk through the candy isle of your local Piggly Wiggly with a friggin' Glock in your purse, and expect me to think you're responsible enough to not use it in a wrongful manner.

You don't even know me, so you can't possibly know if I am responsible enough or not. However, statistics in all states that allow concealed carry show that those who obtain a concealed carry permit are vastly more law abiding than those who don't, and not just in violent crime. They commit far fewer crimes of any sort than the general population. Oh, and another thing, depending on where you live, you probably pass tens or even hundreds of people a day who are carrying concealed weapons, Maybe their guns are defective too since they didn't jump out and shoot you. Or maybe it's because the tool is not what is responsible, but rather the person. If it was the tool, then spoons would be responsible for Rosie O'Donnel being fat.

]In terms of guns and gun laws, I am with nc. Guns serve no purpose other than to kill. But when in the hands of my son-in-law, a Deputy Sheriff for 15 years, it can protect and save lives. Through him and his career I know a damn good amount about the gun laws you wrap yourself around, and I would invite you to ride around with your local officers some Saturday night on domestic abuse calls and bar fights and see how effective your "laws on the books" are when people are drunk or high on meth.

These are the kind of people who will not obey the gun laws anyway. And why should your son-in-law be the only one privileged enough to carry a gun for protection. I guarantee you that many gun owners, including myself, spend much more time at the range than the average law enforcement officer. Most LEOs have to qualify once per year, and often that's the only time they fire their weapon. The old addage "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" certainly applies. If someone is breaking into my house with intent to do me or my family harm, why should I have to wait for the police to show up? It might be too late by then.

The right to bear a deadly weapon, whether it be a gun or a surgeons knife, should be held as a sacred trust. Not to be given out to anyone just because they can sign their name to a piece of paper. A surgeon has to go to school for 7 years, residency for at least 2, and then on to a fellowship for 1-2 depending on what their specialty would be. Yet, we will let a guy sign a paper, get a gun, buy a quart of beer, and walk down the street with the gun tucked in his belt.

Nice try to compare a surgeon with a person with a gun. Do you own a pocket knife? How long did you have to train before they let you buy it? Did you see the news today? A guy in NY just went on a rampage with a knife. Killed some people, wounded many others. He hurt people with a car too. Should we ban those? Restrict them? Life is dangerous, people are unpredictable. There were murders before guns were invented, and there are murders in countries where guns are banned. Why try to restrict a constitutional right just because some people misuse that right?

TX. You may be taking Paul's comments out of context. I don't think he intended to insult people who choose to have guns legally. I think he just meant that it was a good thing this fool didn't have one! Either way I am all for peoples rights To bear arms. I also know from Paul's post on here he is anything but narrow minded.

Lexi, by his comments above, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. He didn't say, and he has not subsequently said, it was a good thing this fool didn't have one. He has said that none of us should have them. He is a hoplophobe (person who is afraid of guns) and wants to violate the constitution so he can feel safer. I don't like that very much.

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Well I have a feeling that this thread is going in the same direction as the Global warming Thread! (no where fast) :cheers:

TX...I don't disagree with you regarding your feelings about guns...I have quite a few guns that have never been fired...I have left them at my parents house and have never even taken them to my home and I have been out of the house a long...time! The ones at my home are for protection...the ones at my parents...hunting (which I don't have time to do) and collector guns...

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Let me respond to a few points. I know I won't change any minds, but I have to correct inaccuracies:

Guns, simply put, suck. They are designed to offer nothing, produce nothing, generate nothing, make nothing....but death, misery, and tragedy.

This is incorrect. I own 21 guns, only 6 of which have resulted in the death of anything. I guess the rest are defective. The guns that have killed something produced food for me and my family. Those that have not killed anything produce pleasure. Think of target shooting as really loud darts.

Worst day in the history of the NRA would be me being elected as President, because the first thing I would do is outlaw ALL guns to everyone except the military

First off, as the President, you cannot do this. The Congress makes the laws, not the President. Maybe you should return to high school civics class. Secondly, you cannot do this as it would be unconstitutional (see below).

- which by the way, some believe the Right to Bear Arms is meant to be enforced - allow this country to form an army and give them the tools to defend the land.

This is 100% incorrect. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right to allow citizens to arm themselves for a variety of reasons, the most important being self defense. So you would be a President who disagrees with the Constitution and the Supreme Court, and who wants to make the laws himself. You sound like a dictator. What's your name so I know never to vote for you.

Not walk through the candy isle of your local Piggly Wiggly with a friggin' Glock in your purse, and expect me to think you're responsible enough to not use it in a wrongful manner.

You don't even know me, so you can't possibly know if I am responsible enough or not. However, statistics in all states that allow concealed carry show that those who obtain a concealed carry permit are vastly more law abiding than those who don't, and not just in violent crime. They commit far fewer crimes of any sort than the general population. Oh, and another thing, depending on where you live, you probably pass tens or even hundreds of people a day who are carrying concealed weapons, Maybe their guns are defective too since they didn't jump out and shoot you. Or maybe it's because the tool is not what is responsible, but rather the person. If it was the tool, then spoons would be responsible for Rosie O'Donnel being fat.

]In terms of guns and gun laws, I am with nc. Guns serve no purpose other than to kill. But when in the hands of my son-in-law, a Deputy Sheriff for 15 years, it can protect and save lives. Through him and his career I know a damn good amount about the gun laws you wrap yourself around, and I would invite you to ride around with your local officers some Saturday night on domestic abuse calls and bar fights and see how effective your "laws on the books" are when people are drunk or high on meth.

These are the kind of people who will not obey the gun laws anyway. And why should your son-in-law be the only one privileged enough to carry a gun for protection. I guarantee you that many gun owners, including myself, spend much more time at the range than the average law enforcement officer. Most LEOs have to qualify once per year, and often that's the only time they fire their weapon. The old addage "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" certainly applies. If someone is breaking into my house with intent to do me or my family harm, why should I have to wait for the police to show up? It might be too late by then.

The right to bear a deadly weapon, whether it be a gun or a surgeons knife, should be held as a sacred trust. Not to be given out to anyone just because they can sign their name to a piece of paper. A surgeon has to go to school for 7 years, residency for at least 2, and then on to a fellowship for 1-2 depending on what their specialty would be. Yet, we will let a guy sign a paper, get a gun, buy a quart of beer, and walk down the street with the gun tucked in his belt.

Nice try to compare a surgeon with a person with a gun. Do you own a pocket knife? How long did you have to train before they let you buy it? Did you see the news today? A guy in NY just went on a rampage with a knife. Killed some people, wounded many others. He hurt people with a car too. Should we ban those? Restrict them? Life is dangerous, people are unpredictable. There were murders before guns were invented, and there are murders in countries where guns are banned. Why try to restrict a constitutional right just because some people misuse that right?

TX. You may be taking Paul's comments out of context. I don't think he intended to insult people who choose to have guns legally. I think he just meant that it was a good thing this fool didn't have one! Either way I am all for peoples rights To bear arms. I also know from Paul's post on here he is anything but narrow minded.

Lexi, by his comments above, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. He didn't say, and he has not subsequently said, it was a good thing this fool didn't have one. He has said that none of us should have them. He is a hoplophobe (person who is afraid of guns) and wants to violate the constitution so he can feel safer. I don't like that very much.

A well written and presented series of arguments.

Yes, your right. You didn't change my mind.

Paul

Oh, PS: My son-in-law has to qualify every 3 months, not once a year. I'll put him up against you. And in Iowa, you can buy a gun and a permit to carry concealed with no requirment for training or shooting or classroom or even reading the owners manual. My daughter also carries concealed and shoots at the range at Least once a month. Much to my dislike.

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Lexi, by his comments above, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. He didn't say, and he has not subsequently said, it was a good thing this fool didn't have one. He has said that none of us should have them. He is a hoplophobe (person who is afraid of guns) and wants to violate the constitution so he can feel safer. I don't like that very much.

As someone who has known nc for years, I can tell you that you are wrong. This is an open forum and his viewpoint is just as welcome here as yours...perhaps moreso due to his long and distinguished time here as a member...calling him a "anykindaphobe" is completely out of line. You owe him an apology.

You're the one who came on here all high and mighty accusing people of "slandering gun owners" NC's statement was just a statement that was completely civil and respectful of those around him, and not directed at you. Something I cannot say of your condescending post right here (telling him he needs to go back to high school? Come on). He is not the President...will never be the president. He's a successful businessman in the banking industry, I think he know what different branches of the government can and cannot do.

If you can't handle having discussions in a public forum about controversial topics without making them personal...stay out of them. Thats not a request.

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Let me respond to a few points. I know I won't change any minds, but I have to correct inaccuracies:

Guns, simply put, suck. They are designed to offer nothing, produce nothing, generate nothing, make nothing....but death, misery, and tragedy.

This is incorrect. I own 21 guns, only 6 of which have resulted in the death of anything. I guess the rest are defective. The guns that have killed something produced food for me and my family. Those that have not killed anything produce pleasure. Think of target shooting as really loud darts.

Worst day in the history of the NRA would be me being elected as President, because the first thing I would do is outlaw ALL guns to everyone except the military

First off, as the President, you cannot do this. The Congress makes the laws, not the President. Maybe you should return to high school civics class. Secondly, you cannot do this as it would be unconstitutional (see below).

- which by the way, some believe the Right to Bear Arms is meant to be enforced - allow this country to form an army and give them the tools to defend the land.

This is 100% incorrect. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right to allow citizens to arm themselves for a variety of reasons, the most important being self defense. So you would be a President who disagrees with the Constitution and the Supreme Court, and who wants to make the laws himself. You sound like a dictator. What's your name so I know never to vote for you.

Not walk through the candy isle of your local Piggly Wiggly with a friggin' Glock in your purse, and expect me to think you're responsible enough to not use it in a wrongful manner.

You don't even know me, so you can't possibly know if I am responsible enough or not. However, statistics in all states that allow concealed carry show that those who obtain a concealed carry permit are vastly more law abiding than those who don't, and not just in violent crime. They commit far fewer crimes of any sort than the general population. Oh, and another thing, depending on where you live, you probably pass tens or even hundreds of people a day who are carrying concealed weapons, Maybe their guns are defective too since they didn't jump out and shoot you. Or maybe it's because the tool is not what is responsible, but rather the person. If it was the tool, then spoons would be responsible for Rosie O'Donnel being fat.

]In terms of guns and gun laws, I am with nc. Guns serve no purpose other than to kill. But when in the hands of my son-in-law, a Deputy Sheriff for 15 years, it can protect and save lives. Through him and his career I know a damn good amount about the gun laws you wrap yourself around, and I would invite you to ride around with your local officers some Saturday night on domestic abuse calls and bar fights and see how effective your "laws on the books" are when people are drunk or high on meth.

These are the kind of people who will not obey the gun laws anyway. And why should your son-in-law be the only one privileged enough to carry a gun for protection. I guarantee you that many gun owners, including myself, spend much more time at the range than the average law enforcement officer. Most LEOs have to qualify once per year, and often that's the only time they fire their weapon. The old addage "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away" certainly applies. If someone is breaking into my house with intent to do me or my family harm, why should I have to wait for the police to show up? It might be too late by then.

The right to bear a deadly weapon, whether it be a gun or a surgeons knife, should be held as a sacred trust. Not to be given out to anyone just because they can sign their name to a piece of paper. A surgeon has to go to school for 7 years, residency for at least 2, and then on to a fellowship for 1-2 depending on what their specialty would be. Yet, we will let a guy sign a paper, get a gun, buy a quart of beer, and walk down the street with the gun tucked in his belt.

Nice try to compare a surgeon with a person with a gun. Do you own a pocket knife? How long did you have to train before they let you buy it? Did you see the news today? A guy in NY just went on a rampage with a knife. Killed some people, wounded many others. He hurt people with a car too. Should we ban those? Restrict them? Life is dangerous, people are unpredictable. There were murders before guns were invented, and there are murders in countries where guns are banned. Why try to restrict a constitutional right just because some people misuse that right?

TX. You may be taking Paul's comments out of context. I don't think he intended to insult people who choose to have guns legally. I think he just meant that it was a good thing this fool didn't have one! Either way I am all for peoples rights To bear arms. I also know from Paul's post on here he is anything but narrow minded.

Lexi, by his comments above, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. He didn't say, and he has not subsequently said, it was a good thing this fool didn't have one. He has said that none of us should have them. He is a hoplophobe (person who is afraid of guns) and wants to violate the constitution so he can feel safer. I don't like that very much.

A well written and presented series of arguments.

Yes, your right. You didn't change my mind.

Paul

Oh, PS: My son-in-law has to qualify every 3 months, not once a year. I'll put him up against you. And in Iowa, you can buy a gun and a permit to carry concealed with no requirment for training or shooting or classroom or even reading the owners manual. My daughter also carries concealed and shoots at the range at Least once a month. Much to my dislike.

I just re-read your post. I disagree with the entire arguement.

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As a person who does not live in your country' but a country that i believe is the best country in the world to live in being Australia ,i must say your gun laws amaze me, allowing almost anyone to carry or have a gun is ridiculous,in australia it is very hard to buy a gun or even own one unless you are in a gun club or a few other exceptions,we are constantly amazed at the gun wars that you seem to have over there,drive by shootings,murders,school shootings,mall shootings it never seems to end,its not the guns fault its the idiots that are allowed to have them, and theres plenty of idiots out there,yes we too have the same feral idiots here in australia but with our tight gun laws the feral idiots dont have a gun at hand when they lose it to just pull the trigger and shoot people,i have visited your country in the last 18 months and i found the American people in general to be fabulous ,friendly, and well mannered,but stick a gun in their pocket and when they loose it they can so easily pull out the gun and in a moment of anger pull the trigger, as i said we are the same type of personalities here in australia but if we have a bad moment of anger we have to sort it out with fists,still not a nice thing but we walk away to cool down and think how lucky we were that the other guy didnt have a gun in his pocket, sure we have criminals over here that dont follow the guidelines on the laws regarding guns, but thats what cowardly criminals do they need weapons because most of them are cowards anyway.

fergi

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As a person who does not live in your country' but a country that i believe is the best country in the world to live in being Australia ,i must say your gun laws amaze me, allowing almost anyone to carry or have a gun is ridiculous,in australia it is very hard to buy a gun or even own one unless you are in a gun club or a few other exceptions,we are constantly amazed at the gun wars that you seem to have over there,drive by shootings,murders,school shootings,mall shootings it never seems to end,its not the guns fault its the idiots that are allowed to have them, and theres plenty of idiots out there,yes we too have the same feral idiots here in australia but with our tight gun laws the feral idiots dont have a gun at hand when they lose it to just pull the trigger and shoot people,i have visited your country in the last 18 months and i found the American people in general to be fabulous ,friendly, and well mannered,but stick a gun in their pocket and when they loose it they can so easily pull out the gun and in a moment of anger pull the trigger, as i said we are the same type of personalities here in australia but if we have a bad moment of anger we have to sort it out with fists,still not a nice thing but we walk away to cool down and think how lucky we were that the other guy didnt have a gun in his pocket, sure we have criminals over here that dont follow the guidelines on the laws regarding guns, but thats what cowardly criminals do they need weapons because most of them are cowards anyway.

fergi

I like your style!

Paul

Off topic: Your post arrived on my screed at 10:45 Central Standard Time, Monday the 14th. Curious, what day and time is it at your home?

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Hi Paul, well the time that you received my post it was 2.15 pm ,15th which is a tuesday afternoon here,we have friends in Lynchburg Virginia, so this reply is being sent at 9.52 pm tuesday nite,15th, the time in Lynchburg at the moment according to my desktop clock is about 6.30 am ,tuesday 15th. i live in Adelaide south australia.i gather you are in Iowa, never been there but i think we flew over your house on the way to washington dc from Los Angeles.LOL.

cheers

fergi

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Hi Paul, well the time that you received my post it was 2.15 pm ,15th which is a tuesday afternoon here,we have friends in Lynchburg Virginia, so this reply is being sent at 9.52 pm tuesday nite,15th, the time in Lynchburg at the moment according to my desktop clock is about 6.30 am ,tuesday 15th. i live in Adelaide south australia.i gather you are in Iowa, never been there but i think we flew over your house on the way to washington dc from Los Angeles.LOL.

cheers

fergi

Thanks Fergi,

The old song "On a Slow Boat to China" surely doesn't apply any more! I never cease to be amazed how small the world continues to become and how cool it is for us to have this means of communicating. In April we will move to Daylight Savings time, when we move our clocks forward one hour in order to have more daylight in the evening..(some love it, some don't.) Do you do the same down under?

Next time you fly over our house smile and wave so we know it's you! LOL

Paul

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I had a very annoying Ford salesman (man...you really do slum it when you go down to a non-luxury brand in the dealer network). We were driving the Explorer, drove it around the block. He asked me what my wife drove...told her a Prius. He asked me what I drove...told him a Lexus. He looks at me and says "Shame on you, how can you drive foreign cars and put Americans out of work?" Now...this guy could barely speak english...

I had the exact same experience here! We have about 5 Ford dealerships in the Toledo area and I've been to all of them. Every salesman I talked to was a complete jerk. All Ford salesman seem to have this thing about them, an "I'm better than you, I'm saving America because I work for Ford" vibe. I had one just like you did, I test drove a Mustang (before I got the Beamer) and he asked what I drove and I pointed to my RX which you could see out his window and he just went nuts. He acted like I was executing puppies for buying a Toyota product. I stood up and told him "You know my engine, transmission... the whole powertrain was built in West Virginia where as your Mustang's powertrain is from Germany and France. Now who's putting Americans to work?" and walked out.

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As someone who has known nc for years, I can tell you that you are wrong. This is an open forum and his viewpoint is just as welcome here as yours...perhaps moreso due to his long and distinguished time here as a member...calling him a "anykindaphobe" is completely out of line. You owe him an apology.

You're the one who came on here all high and mighty accusing people of "slandering gun owners" NC's statement was just a statement that was completely civil and respectful of those around him, and not directed at you. Something I cannot say of your condescending post right here (telling him he needs to go back to high school? Come on). He is not the President...will never be the president. He's a successful businessman in the banking industry, I think he know what different branches of the government can and cannot do.

If you can't handle having discussions in a public forum about controversial topics without making them personal...stay out of them. Thats not a request.

I really wasn't trying to offend, but rather be witty and biting in my comments. Kind of like John Stewart. I guess I'll keep my day job. And I apologize for any offense. It just seems, however, that it is very easy to say things like "guns suck" and "they bring only misery and suffering" or as our Australian friend hinting that once someone gets a gun in their pocket they immediately become some kind of criminal or unstable person. What if someone came here and said "Lexus cars just suck, they only waste gas, cost too much to buy, are stupid, have no use and anyone who buys one will become a criminal." Would we as members of this forum be correct in jumping all over that person? There are absolutely no facts to back up the assertion that once someone gets a gun they will start to shoot people. Anyone who has actually looked into the issue will discover interesting things about gun use in this country. For instance (from FBI statistics), more than 65% of gun shot victims in the USA have a criminal record. More than 75% of those doing the shooting have a criminal record. If you have a criminal record, you cannot legally buy a gun or obtain a concealed handgun license. So what does that mean? (1) our "gun" problem in the US is a crime problem, not a gun problem. We have criminals shooting criminals, not ordinary people shooting ordinary people. (2) these criminals are not obtaining or carrying their guns according to the law, so passing another law to outlaw guns would do nothing. They are already outlawed for criminals and they are getting them anyway. Last I checked, cocaine was illegal for everyone but it still seems to make it into the hands of users.

My intent here was to try and get people to think about guns differently. I had hoped that by providing some facts and statistics I would help people to see this issue differently. I guess I didn't. I apologize for anyone I have offended and hope that we can remain "friends" in the future.

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I just re-read your post. I disagree with the entire arguement.

The whole thing? There wasn't anything you agreed with? You don't agree that the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment is an individual right and does not apply only to the military? You don't agree that you don't have to get trained to buy a knife? You don't agree that, while you may not, some people derive pleasure from shooting guns for target practice? I guess I'm not as persuasive as I thought I was.

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TX, no worries on my end. Listen, I know guns, and have been around far too many of them in my life already. A little back ground on me and guns - I'm the son of a retired USAF Colnel. I use to be a member of the most violent division of the Teamster's union (movie business), I am from the gun happy south, and I am married to the daughter of one of the most hightly decorated SBI agents in North Carolina's history - so much so - he still has a standing invitation to join the FBI and Secret Service if he likes, at the rip ol' age of 57. Instead, he busts crooked lawyers and politicians now for a much quieter division of justice. He nailed so many high ranking drug runners off the coast of NC via assistance from the Camp Lejune Marine boys in Jacksonville NC, mob guys, and the like, that they live in the country side with all records of his location completely erased from the general public - including names on deeds and mortgages. Guns? I know guns.

When 9/11 happened, I was sitting on the 25th floor of what was then the South Trust Banking Tower in downtown Birmingham, Alabama, a state that loves their guns, and about as far away from any terrorist's target that you could get (not that they fear Alabama, but that they could probably care less about Alabama). I clearly remember walking through the grocery story for several days thereafter, seeing people buying their groceries with their guns strapped to their sides like the wild wild west, waiting to shoot a "terrorist". It wasn't a "self defense" decision, it was an excuse to show off your gun. Who in their right mind would ever think a terrorist was going to bust into the Piggly Wiggly in the wealthy B'ham subdivision of Mountain Brook, Alabama, one of the top 10 concentrations of wealth in this country? Realtors showing houses with guns on their side, buyers looking at houses with guns on their sides (my best friend was a realtor at the time, had a Glock on his side). You think that couple shopping for a $800k house are terrorists? I couldn't help myself from coming to the conclusion that "these people have lost their minds down here". A few months later, I was back in NC.

The economy chased me to Chicago two years ago, exactly to this day. I don't think I need to say anything to support my feelings about guns and the city of Chicago. A simple google search will say more than I could.

Can I see the need for guns for hunting? Yeah, I can see that, and I certainly understand that. I haven't a problem with that.

Can I see the need to protect your family? Yeah, I can. I am a father of two precious little children, and we live in the murder capital of the country (Chicago). Do I have a gun? Nope. Will I allow a gun in my house? Not without a badge. How do I defend us against these elements? I study, I bust my butt, I make certain sacrificies, I see the easy way and the hard way, and choose the hard way....so I can make sure my wife and kids can live in the best and safest part of town. I pay the highest taxes in the region, to make sure my little pocket of Chicago PD has more than they could ever possibly need to protect the neighborhood. We have the fastest cars, the newest guns, the quickest response times, and two of every toy imaginable. Give you an example of those taxes - our house has a current market value of about $550k (down from $800k two years ago - why I rent). The real estate taxes alone are north of $1,600 a month - that's right close to my ALL-in mortgage payment on my NC house two years ago. I pay the premium to ADT for top level security in our house (oddly enough, we've never even turned it on - but it's there if we need it, wired directly into the PD). I defend us by making choices, making sacrificies to move when we don't want to, buy what "fits" not what "wants". I understand this doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me. Will the PD get there in time? I don't know. I do know they had me and my wife surrounded within 30 minutes of arriving to our house two years ago for the first time, to make sure we were supposed to be there.

But, will I allow that question of "will they get there in time?" allow the fear of that idea to place a gun in my home? No way in hell. In the sea of statistics out there about guns, the constitutional arguments of defining certain amendments, how about the one that everyone reading this post has read in the media time and time again - a gun in the house raises the probably of a gun related incident dramatically. Sorry, there's enough stress in this world that I don't need that statistic in my living room. I'd rather pay the boys out front with their shinny new guns, proper training, proper back-ground checks, proper evaluations, that I helped buy to keep the wrong element off my street and out of my home.

When I say "guns suck" and "if I were President, I'd get the guns", I say that with two key examples (in a sea of thousands) in the back of my mind where a "gun" did exactly as it was designed to do..... Virginia Tech and Columbine.

I know the argument of "well, these wouldn't of happened if someone had a gun on campus to defend themselves". But, I refuse to believe that my children need to learn english and math by Smith and Wesson.

I'm of the opinion that if you find yourself with a knife in a gun fight....your mistake isn't the knife...it's being in the situation in the first place, and that mistake was probably made long before the fight at hand.

I understand your point of view, and I'm glad you appear to be one of the responsible citizens with a gun. But, I don't need to read a civics text book, or have a lawyer guide me on what branches of government can do what, to know how the second amendment impacts this country. All I need to see to know that, is to watch the first 5 minutes of ANY city local news broadcast to know.

Fergie is spot-on correct. As someone who has travelled internationally quite a bit over the past few years myself, I can tell you the #1 most embarrassing component of United States of America on the global stage......the Second Amendment.

You watch Top Gear? You ever seen one of the episodes where the boys come to America? Count how many jokes they make about being "murdered" in America. Top Gear is one of the top TV programs in the world. It doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with their jokes. Their perception of us isn't wrong.

But don't worry TX, I won't be running for President. As you said, he can't make those kinds of decisions. If there is one thing I know to be fact in the business and political world - it's that power isn't "seen", it's "felt". Things get done when nobody is watching.

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NC, thanks for your feedback. Your opinions are valuable to me and I respect that you make them in a manner that clearly reflects a lot of thinking on your part. My concern is when people want to take away my right to make different choices. I look at Columbine and Virginia Tech 180 degrees differently than you. Both of those were "gun free" zones. It was against the law for the gunmen to possess guns there. So how did they accomplish their crimes? In fact, I think they chose to carry out their crimes there precisely because they were gun free zones. They knew their victims would be unarmed. How many mass shootings have you heard of at a gun range? An NRA convention? A policeman's ball? As Fergi said, criminals are cowards. They choose soft targets. I prefer not to be one of those. If you choose otherwise, that is fine, but I want to have my choice too.

I'm sure you would admit that there is absolutely no way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. If the military and police are allowed to have guns, then so will the criminals. There will always be a greedy member of the military or PD who will steal weapons and sell them to criminals. And even if we could get rid of all guns, I don't want to go back to the days when the strongest men got to be in charge. It was like that for thousands of years in this world, and I for one am not willing to go back to that. I do not find it the least bit coincidental that the rise of freedom and liberty coincided precisely with the widespread availability of firearms. The American Revolution NEVER would have happened were it not for the fact that the Continental soldiers possessed, knew how to use, and were willing to use their own firearms to fight against oppression.

You may choose to employ other methods to ensure your safety and that of your family. I employ many of the same methods. I live in a safe neighborhood with a good police force. However, if there is another method of protecting myself available, why would I not use it. As for the possibility of a gun accident, the statistics state overwhelmingly that children are more likely to die from bicycle accidents, choking, drowning in pools and falling down stairs than by gun accidents. They are even more likely to drown in 5 gallon buckets than to be killed by a gun. Yet the gun is what gets targeted (forgive the pun). We don't seek to ban bicycles when a child dies riding one. We don't mandate only single story houses when a child falls down the stairs, we chalk it up to accident or poor parenting. But when a gun is involved, suddenly it is all about the gun.

Again, as I said, I have no problem if you want to forego one option to protect yourself. Living in Chicago, it really isn't open to you anyway, despite what the Supreme Court says. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't have that option. I would never force you to own a gun, so I don't want to be forced NOT to own a gun.

On the subject of Top Gear, did you just see the episode where the boys fired guns from a moving car in NC? They didn't seem too upset about it. They pander to their EU crowd who like to feel superior to us. That's fine with me. I don't care what they think. I'm not that insecure that I care what a bunch of Europeans think of me. I frequent gun forums as well, and there are many, many Europeans and Australians on those boards who hate their countries gun laws. Crime rates in both England and Australia have risen since their gun bans, and interestingly, gun crimes have not decreased. When you force LAW ABIDING citizens to turn in their guns, you don't get them from criminals. You see, criminals don't obey the laws, including those requiring turning in your guns. Only law abiding citizens do that.

I could go on and on, but this is a car forum, so I'll stop now. Thanks for your time.

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I hear what you're saying, and I understand your point of view. The fact is, the genie was let out of the bottle with guns, and she probably isn't going to go back into the bottle. Just a way of life.

The differences between a bicycle and a gun, is that when a child has an accident on the bike, they have the possiblity of getting a scraped knee or elbow. An accident with a gun, is far more brutal. Falling down the stairs can break a leg, a gun shot to the leg of the child can either cause the leg to be removed or bleed to death if the main artery is hit. Fact is, comparing anything that can possibly hurt a person to a gun, just doesn't make sense to me. A car has airbags, a gun has hollowtip rounds. A bike comes with a helment, a gun comes with a safty switch (some anyway). Anything can kill a person, but most are by accident, whereas a gun has but one purpose in general - kill.

I seriously doubt Columbine and VT were selected because they were gun free zones. Too much of a coincidence to the fact that the shooters were students, and those were their "worlds". If they had gone into a hospital or random library, maybe.

I understand you're point about considering what the rest of the world thinks of us. Look, I'm the last guy on here to fly the Bush avatar around here, I get it. But, the world isn't that big anymore, and getting smaller and smaller as the days go by. I doubt the top ten things around you right now, have very little to do with USA. Take a look around, what do you see? I see China on my desk, belgium on my furniture, japan on my screen, and Tiawan on my phone. Trust me, thumbing our noses at the rest of the world, only hurts us these days.

I did see that Top Gear, it was great! I loved the part where Jeremy was trying to talk to the kid at the tire shop, and couldn't understand a word he was saying. Made me laugh!! I don't think they were meant to be upset about the drive-by shooting part. They were simply make fun of us, as we're the country where drive-by shooting happen! That's my point about our image. There is another episode, several years old now, where they go from Miami to New Orleans. They just picked us apart over our gun laws. It was funny, and quite frankly, was pretty accurate too, in my opinion.

Either way, it's all good man. You don't go do something stupid with your gun (I don't want to pay for your jail stay), and I won't ask you to hand it over. Deal? :cheers:

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I just love it when it turns out like this cheers.gif

Beers are on DC he was the last to show up! :cheers:

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We've been thinking about trading the Prius in on an SUV...I went and drove the new Jeep Grand Cherokee and the new Ford Explorer. I had a very annoying Ford salesman (man...you really do slum it when you go down to a non-luxury brand in the dealer network). We were driving the Explorer, drove it around the block. He asked me what my wife drove...told her a Prius. He asked me what I drove...told him a Lexus. He looks at me and says "Shame on you, how can you drive foreign cars and put Americans out of work?" Now...this guy could barely speak english...

I put the car in park and told him that I worked hard for my living and bought what I wanted, and if Ford and GM could build a car that wasn't a complete peice of !Removed! and lost 70% of its value in 3 years, serviced and sold by dealership personnel who could put a complete sentence together and didn't look like they belonged working in a shipyard...I'd be happy to drive one. Got out of the Explorer...got in my Lexus...and drove away LOL

You won't believe this one. Were one of these guys your salesperson that day?

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/18/three-men-caught-vandalizing-seven-toyota-cars-at-chicago-auto-s/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fautoblog+%28Autoblog%29

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