I Just Get A "click" On Start Up

[curiousB]

Read landars post #6 in this thread before buying a new battery.... Unless you have that symptom no point in a new battery.

[billydpowell]

Read landars post #6 in this thread before buying a new battery.... Unless you have that symptom no point in a new battery.

thanks B I read that, dont need a batt, for the last week, this thing has started instantly, weird..

[curiousB]

Read landars post #6 in this thread before buying a new battery.... Unless you have that symptom no point in a new battery.

thanks B I read that, dont need a batt, for the last week, this thing has started instantly, weird..

My guess is it’s a bad/worn spot on the contactor plate in the solenoid. Probably all pitted and burned up. It’s intermittent because the plate moves around some and it just happens to be in a different position. Eventually it will wander back to the bad spot and you'll probably see it again...

[billydpowell]

Read landars post #6 in this thread before buying a new battery.... Unless you have that symptom no point in a new battery.

thanks B I read that, dont need a batt, for the last week, this thing has started instantly, weird..

My guess is it’s a bad/worn spot on the contactor plate in the solenoid. Probably all pitted and burned up. It’s intermittent because the plate moves around some and it just happens to be in a different position. Eventually it will wander back to the bad spot and you'll probably see it again...

from past experience, I know you are right, and we will replace the contacts, soon.... I remember on the older cars, we would remove the end of the solenoid, turn the old bolts half around (for the clean side)turn the washer (contact plate) around (for the clean side)put it back together and they were good to go..... I am probably talking over your head... since I am 76.. and I am sure you are not.

[VBdenny]

I read Lander #6 and I will say that not all bad batterys do the multi-click thing. I have seen many instances where a battery with one weak cell will cause just a single click and present the same symptoms as a bad starter.

Even a new (or not very old battery) can fail and my point was that a new battery is what, maybe $75 at most? Removing the intake manifold to service the starter is going to be significantly more. I believe in going with the cheapest option first. Testing a battery does not always give a true indication of the condition. Many times a battery will test perfectly and then fail to work under load conditions in the vehicle. These engines take a lot of juice to start and even a simi-weak battery will not work sometimes.

When my car did the exact same thing you described, I replaced the battery even though it was only 2 1/2 years old and everything has worked perfectly for 2-3 years since. Besides, under the battery warranty from Costco, it only cost me $32.

Do what you like but I always eliminate the cheap and most common problems first.

[landar]

Well let's look at this battery scenario in a bit more detail. If a battery has a weak cell, it presents itself as additional internal resistance within the battery. All batteries, even new ones, have a certain amount of internal resistance. It is very small but present nonetheless. As a battery ages or because of manufacturing defects, the internal resistance begins to increase. As the resistance increases, current draw causes a significant voltage drop within the battery itself. That results in a lower voltage across the external battery posts. This sort of condition will surely result in a rapid clicking of the starter relay.

If however, the battery provides a quick burst of energy and then just basically shuts down (a cell opens up almost completely), you could experience a single click of the starter solenoid. But subsequent immediate tries should result in silence as the battery is attempting to recover. Certainly not a robust start.

The "key" to the starter solenoid issue is to isolate the "click" to a certain area of the engine compartment(starter area). And as I mentioned in an earlier post, not all "clicks" are created equal. The starter relay is quite different from the starter solenoid and the former will create a rather soft click as opposed to the harsher click of the solenoid (almost a metallic ping throughout the engine block if you are using a mechanic's stethoscope).

Billy, I know exactly what you mean about turning the bolt head around. I have done that "trick" myself. Why not test VBdenny's hypothesis? Since you have two LS's, swap the batteries between vehicles and see if the symptoms jump to the other car.

[VBdenny]

hey, great (and cheap) way to find out.

[billydpowell]

Well let's look at this battery scenario in a bit more detail. If a battery has a weak cell, it presents itself as additional internal resistance within the battery. All batteries, even new ones, have a certain amount of internal resistance. It is very small but present nonetheless. As a battery ages or because of manufacturing defects, the internal resistance begins to increase. As the resistance increases, current draw causes a significant voltage drop within the battery itself. That results in a lower voltage across the external battery posts. This sort of condition will surely result in a rapid clicking of the starter relay.

If however, the battery provides a quick burst of energy and then just basically shuts down (a cell opens up almost completely), you could experience a single click of the starter solenoid. But subsequent immediate tries should result in silence as the battery is attempting to recover. Certainly not a robust start.

The "key" to the starter solenoid issue is to isolate the "click" to a certain area of the engine compartment(starter area). And as I mentioned in an earlier post, not all "clicks" are created equal. The starter relay is quite different from the starter solenoid and the former will create a rather soft click as opposed to the harsher click of the solenoid (almost a metallic ping throughout the engine block if you are using a mechanic's stethoscope).

Billy, I know exactly what you mean about turning the bolt head around. I have done that "trick" myself. Why not test VBdenny's hypothesis? Since you have two LS's, swap the batteries between vehicles and see if the symptoms jump to the other car.

swapping batterys was about the first thing I did.. didnt work, but thanks, it just lasted about two days, and then started running as soon as you crank it. I'm going to get new contacts very soon.

[SW03ES]

Yeah its not the battery, its the starter...its notorious on this car. Everybody we asked when it was happening to my Dad's 98 said "Its the starter, happens all the time and they are a !Removed! to replace"

It'll be fine for a while, bad for a while, fine for a while but it will gradually get worse. My Dad drove his 98 for 20,000 miles that way before he traded it...

[Flated]

Hey Billy, My 2000 LS has the same "click", multiple key twist issues, and eventually the starter twists and the engine fires off perfectly. Ever come up with a solution to your problem? Flated

[billydpowell]

Hey Billy, My 2000 LS has the same "click", multiple key twist issues, and eventually the starter twists and the engine fires off perfectly. Ever come up with a solution to your problem? Flated

I am going to replace the starter contacts when it fails or when the weather cools down, which ever is first.

well the fail came first......

I ordered my Starter rebuild kit yesterday from Sewell, $94 w/shipping & tax. but the old man will get my nephew do do this.

[billydpowell]

bump

[dcfish]

A pictorial/writeup would be great

[Micah.Berry]

I'd like to throw my name in as someone who would enjoy the pictures / write up. That way, Billy, you could "supervise" while your nephew did all the hard labor.

Micah

[billydpowell]

sorry I am at a loss with how to's.. if you are not sure of what you are doing, you... take photos so you will know where to put things back

We/HE, pulled the top of the engine down to where he could move the intake forward out of the way, then took the two long bolts out of the starter to get it out of the way (see photo), then replaced the contacts and plunger, and reinstalled everything..

starts and runs fine....

[landar]

Hey Billy, thats a new "twist" to the starter fix. Looks like you did not remove the entire starter housing from the block. You removed the motor from the housing instead. That way, you don't have to struggle with the tight space between firewall and bellhousing. Then just rebuild the existing starter. Clever. Thanks for posting.

[billydpowell]

Hey Billy, thats a new "twist" to the starter fix. Looks like you did not remove the entire starter housing from the block. You removed the motor from the housing instead. That way, you don't have to struggle with the tight space between firewall and bellhousing. Then just rebuild the existing starter. Clever. Thanks for posting.

Correct, Jon (my nephew) thought of it last time he done one and decided to experiment with mine, it worked fine but the one contact nut on the left (driver) side was tuff to break loose because it is so close to the engine.

[AzHotLS]

landar, it's not a new twist, I did the same exact same thing when I did my starter "rebuild"....

http://www.clublexus...tml#post4191291

The starter is still going strong but I had a problem getting the manifold back on and chewed up the new lower manifold gaskets I bought so I ended up using the originals. Now after 1.5 years later, it sounds like I've developed a leak as I'm getting noise from the engine when accelerating.

Billy, congrats to you and your nephew on a DIY well done!!

[landar]

landar, it's not a new twist, I did the same exact same thing when I did my starter "rebuild"....

http://www.clublexus...tml#post4191291

The starter is still going strong but I had a problem getting the manifold back on and chewed up the new lower manifold gaskets I bought so I ended up using the originals. Now after 1.5 years later, it sounds like I've developed a leak as I'm getting noise from the engine when accelerating.

Billy, congrats to you and your nephew on a DIY well done!!

So you did. I missed that thread. Oh wait, its on CL. THAT's how I missed it. ;) Thanks for the link to your post.

[turboomni]

Well my LS's problems seem to be mounting up on me. I should do a power steering pump and lately my starter has been doing the click even though it has a new battery. It is the original starter in the car at 150,000 miles. I also my long egr tube is leaking and this is my question.

Is it any easier to install the egr long tube when the intake is off the car while doing the starter?

In the manual it also shows that they remove one of the cats when doing the starter. I don't know why.

I guess on my vacation I'm gonna have to get dirty and address these problems.

I would also like to know all the non reusable parts I will need to do this right and have them before hand.

Any thoughts on all this?

Thanks

[billydpowell]

Well my LS's problems seem to be mounting up on me. I should do a power steering pump and lately my starter has been doing the click even though it has a new battery. It is the original starter in the car at 150,000 miles. I also my long egr tube is leaking and this is my question.

Is it any easier to install the egr long tube when the intake is off the car while doing the starter?

In the manual it also shows that they remove one of the cats when doing the starter. I don't know why.

I guess on my vacation I'm gonna have to get dirty and address these problems.

I would also like to know all the non reusable parts I will need to do this right and have them before hand.

Any thoughts on all this?

Thanks

Looks like you have a 97 model, my starter was on my 99. my egr tube was on my 97, have not had any PS issues.

SO, starter replacement access would not help the egr replacement.

get the starter kit from the dealer, it is complete with what you need. NOTE: someone posted a NEW starter for $165, I am sure it was a rebuilt, but if I could get the whole thing for that small amount, that is a good way to go.

NOW egr tube.. (you can do a search on this) you need to remove the RHS cat for access to the tube mounting bolts, so get the 2 gaskets for the cat + the tube and gaskets.

[AndyLowe]

I too just changed my starter and learned a few things that might interest others. My starter also would occasionally refuse to click or rotate. It's a 94 LS400 and I bought the intake manifold upper 4 and lower 2 long gaskets. When I removed the two intakes, I found water/sludge sitting in the engine block valley area where the starter lives. My starter even had a water line on its outer body. Normally, there are two drain holes below the starter where water should drain. Mine were blocked. I had to clean the valley area of the top of the engine block and degrease it, to get these two holes to drain. (see attached).

Next, I removed a water crossover pipe that straddles the starter. It required me to go to the Lexus dealer and buy two more little, specialty gaskets that would allow re-assembly. Removing this water crossover pipe was necessary to get to the two 15mm bolts that hold the starter into the engine block. These two bolts are very difficult to remove but with patience and flipping the wrench over and over, one can do it.

I bought an Autozone rebuilt Starter for $90 and watched them test the rebuilt one before I left the store.

This is not a job for a novice; I don't recommend this for the occasional mechanic. It really was a horrible place to put two bolts; they should have engineered the bolts to tap the opposite direction. The two bolts that hold the starter to the block will last in your memory the rest of your life! hahaha.

The picture with my finger pointing to the bolt on the left, shows the water/coolant crossover pipe removed. That bolt put a blister on the end of my middle finger on my right hand! hahaha....that's a first.

Next, you see a picture with the new starter installed and water/coolant crossover pipe installed on the new two special gaskets.

One thing the Lexus Parts man mentioned to me, warning me, was to be very careful when moving the starter out of its hole. When you pull it out of its hole, it can crush the Knock Sensor on the passenger side bank of the engine block valley. It's close to the starter and I was careful not to bang it. It occured to me I would have to remove both upper intake manifolds again, and that was inspiration enough to not hurt the knock sensors.

My Autozone Starter works very well and I am glad it's done. I hope this helps others.

AndyLowe

[VBdenny]

Nice of the Lexus dude to tell you about the knock sensor. Quite a job you did and I especially liked the part about the water crossover tube. Hopefully, this job is not in my future anytime soon. My compliments on a job well done.