'06 Ls 430 Transmission Fluid

[sandydennis]

just purchased '06 430 with 53k miles. Certified + xtra warranty. I Have been told tranny fluid never needs changing. No dipstick too see color and clarity of fluid.

My independant service rep says this is why trans fail at around 125/150k miles.

Need clarification.

Thank you.

Sandy

[97LS400]

Your tranny needs to have at least the fluid changed are regular intervals(about 30k). It is best to get it flushed by qualified shop that works on lexus vehicles.

[jasperaxle]

Like my 2005, your system is in fact a sealed system. Lexus uses a long life tranny fluid in this system. As long as you are a normal driver who doesn't tow anything or drive in dusty conditions you are fine. You most definately do NOT want to have it changed every 30k. I have not read of one person on this site replacing this particular sealed trans before 150k.

[SW03ES]

In fact I have never heard of someone having the transmission replaced on an LS...period.

[97LS400]

Hey,

I sent an earlier response without looking at the year. I would go with the advise of the Lexus dealer. I have a much older 97 ls400. You do change the tranny fluid and filter on these. What does the extended warranty manual say? When I have questions like this on the car, I normally bypass the service writer(or what ever they call them and go through the parts department to find someone in the garage to give me answers on question like this. Ask to talk to the Service Dept Manager.

It does sound odd that the fluid "never" needs replacing. I do not think the normal maintenance schedule goes past 125k or so. I would question where this information on maintenance past that interval is coming from(if you keep the car that long). If there are other links on this. I would be interested in seeing how Lexus gets around the normal issue of contamination and degradation that transmission fluid is normally exposed to.

Sorry for any confusion!

[ggemigniani]

Visit tundrasolutions.com and the tundra forum in particular. There is lots of information and photos there about how to change the fluid and how to determine the fluid level on the latest Toyota transmissions.

The new transmissions are NOT sealed. They have drain and fill plugs as always + an overflow plug, but no dipstick and fluid changing (pan draining and refill) procedures are considerably more complicated.

The WS fluid DOES deteriorate just as the Type T-IV fluid did. Toyota has made "fluid doesn't need changing claims" on and off for almost 40 years and they have turned out to be valid only for the Toyota owners who sold or traded their vehicles before 100-150,000 miles.

[curiousB]

Well lets recall the OP has 53k miles so regardless of the debate on trans fluid change it clear he's 50k away from a change at least.

In my '04 the dealer shows it as a service on the 30k services yet they don't use any fluid or parts. Translation, they say they do it to justify service yet it isn't required until past 100k miles... borderline false advertising but I don't have the desire to battle it.

[sandydennis]

Since it took a little over a day to get info from this site, I did take the '06 LS 430 with 53k to my independant who does many out of warranty Lexus and BMW's... AND order up a tranmission flush using a system called BG. (quite well known at high shops). Not a drain and refill.

This machine hooks up to the trans coolant line somehow and new fluid is intro duced into trans and the old stuff runs out through the BG machine and is collected for inspection all the while the new fluid goes in with no added pressure except the trans pressure. Cost $550.00 including fluid.

WELL WELL the fluid coming out looked like chocolate syrup, not burnt yet but close. It took 32 quarts and two complete cycles to get it bright pink again.

Will be taking sample to Lexus to show. THis car was totally maintained by Lexus with all records, that's why they certified it i guess.

My local service Rep said when they do sealed systems on BMW and MB it's all the same stuff, quite often worse.

Of course by this time the unsuspecting car has been traded/sold to the next person who actually pays for the new trans. that it is going to need.

I also have a '96 Q45. Infiniti also never really specifies trans maintainence. I have it changed every 30k and the trans is great. 230k miles on that baby.

[mann777]

I would agree with Sandy, the WS as per the TSB introduced say no replacement, but often inspection and top up. Here is the TSB, that will have some clarity on the Toyota/ Lexus product. The SST tool used is just a simple wire with dual leads to check on the oil temprature while refilling. It is quite simple.

Here is the TSB.

ATF_WS_Introduction.pdf

[sgretchko]

I have a '97 LS and have had the dealer perform the BG Transmission flush done at about 150k. I noticed smoother shifts, general transmission improvement and feel good about the clean fluid. I know nothing about an LS430. My comment is the cost. My recollection is that the dealer charged me about $200. I am sure part of the cost is related to the quantity and quality of fluid but $550 just seemed high. I am sure it was worthwhile to have done, the cost just surprised me. By the way, the BG throttle body cleaning was also worthwhile.

[sandydennis]

The main cost was the 32 quarts of ATF @$348.00 plus tax and labor brought it to $540.00.

Definite improvement in shifting smoothness.

Why would anyone believe what Toyota or Lexus says about service requirements after the mess they are in the past month.

After they sell you the car the only way corp. makes more money is to sell you another one after you have traded and pass the possible trans problems to next owner who thought all is well because all service was done. And that new owner will take it to an independant sevice guy to keep costs down when trans fails, after 150k miles

[SW03ES]

After they sell you the car the only way corp. makes more money is to sell you another one after you have traded and pass the possible trans problems to next owner who thought all is well because all service was done. And that new owner will take it to an independant sevice guy to keep costs down when trans fails, after 150k miles

To be fair, I've owned these cars for a long time and I have never seen this type of functional obsolescence in a Toyota product. In fact, I've never seen anything to make me believe that they don't want these cars to go on an provide excellent service for many many years. Nothing ages like a Lexus.

I've also never seen a trans failure on an LS...

[SRK]

Why would anyone believe what Toyota or Lexus says about service requirements after the mess they are in the past month.

After they sell you the car the only way corp. makes more money is to sell you another one after you have traded and pass the possible trans problems to next owner who thought all is well because all service was done. And that new owner will take it to an independant sevice guy to keep costs down when trans fails, after 150k miles

Perhaps you could advise us all as to what kind of car to buy, considering you don't like the most reliable brands on the planet.

If you really like transmission problems, I'd advise YOU to buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford. You deserve one.

And over $500 for a trans oil change? You're kidding right?

[ggemigniani]

Thousands of LS's have had shift control solenoid failures after 100K miles due to not changing the fluid. The newer LS's have 6 solenoids so it can get expensive to deal with failures.

And at Club Lexus an owner of a '93 todayposted about how he spent $2,800 for a rebuilt transmission at about 225K miles.

Here's a tutorial that explains how to drain and refill the transmission oil pan on the newest Toyota's and Lexus's that don't have transmission fluid dipsticks: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323590

[killerFatty]

Why would anyone believe what Toyota or Lexus says about service requirements after the mess they are in the past month.

After they sell you the car the only way corp. makes more money is to sell you another one after you have traded and pass the possible trans problems to next owner who thought all is well because all service was done. And that new owner will take it to an independant sevice guy to keep costs down when trans fails, after 150k miles

Perhaps you could advise us all as to what kind of car to buy, considering you don't like the most reliable brands on the planet.

If you really like transmission problems, I'd advise YOU to buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford. You deserve one.

And over $500 for a trans oil change? You're kidding right?

Easy there guys. I don't think anyone is trying to offend anyone else. Toyota has been in hot water lately, and claims of infinatly good tranny fluid are just dumb. You might as well put in $10/quart motor oil and then never change it. Same idea right? Hoenstly, Toyota needed something to get there over inflated heads out of their A$$es. (Same can be said for some Lexus owners as well!!) At least GM and Ford have schedualed matinance for their junky transmissions. Bottom line is all tranny fluid will need changed. The more frequant the better, fresh fluid won't hurt nearly as bad as chocolate syrup. Every 30K is slightly excessive, but if you want to than go for it. 50K is about max comfortably for tranny fluid.

[SW03ES]

Thousands of LS's have had shift control solenoid failures after 100K miles due to not changing the fluid. The newer LS's have 6 solenoids so it can get expensive to deal with failures.

Really...thousands? Got some kind of link for that? A source perhaps?

And at Club Lexus an owner of a '93 todayposted about how he spent $2,800 for a rebuilt transmission at about 225K miles.

The most important parts of this sentance are '93...and 225,000 miles. I wouldn't call a transmission failure on a 17 year old car with 225,000 miles unusual or any kind of surprise. Even on a well maintained car, when the car is old enough to get a drivers license itself and has nearly a quarter million miles on it...reliability can be a crapshoot.

Look at all the members here and at CL that have cars with 300k miles though and the original engine and transmission. Its a very reliable and long lasting car if you maintain it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't change the fluid...I change my fluid every 15k miles on the ES. I'm just saying the argument that Lexus designs their cars...specificially the LS...to have components fail after a certain amount of time, and that they WANT transmissions to fail on their flagship sedan that has a reputation of being the most reliable car ever made so they will buy new cars is comple bullsh!t.

[curiousB]

Its pretty hard to make a credible argument that Lexus doesn't design an extremely reliable car. There are enough high mileage LS400s on the road as testament to this.

That said this transmission fluid change is troubling to me as well. After hearing of Sandydennis's condition of his fluid at 53k miles I wonder how mine looks at 87k miles. I did have the 30/60k maintenance done by dealer but I know they didn't do anything to add or replace transmission fluid.

Lexus/Toyota is pretty deliberate in how they do things. Could it be with the switch to a newer tranny fluid they were concerned independents and DIYer's would partial drain and put in low cost generic ATF and blend that with the residual Toyota fluid? The fact they don't have a convenient fill port or dip stick makes me think this was done very intentionally. Did they came to the conclusion incorrect service was a bigger threat than stretching the new Toyota ATF to 100k+ miles.

[SW03ES]

All we know is that the fluid she had drained was dark colored. You don't know what the effect on the fluid's functionality was though...

[SRK]

Exactly, as without an oil analysis, the colour is just a guess as to the condition. For sure it will change colour in service, and I'm aware that Honda transmissions routinely show "dark" oil, and it's considered normal.

[sandydennis]

Exactly, as without an oil analysis, the colour is just a guess as to the condition. For sure it will change colour in service, and I'm aware that Honda transmissions routinely show "dark" oil, and it's considered normal.

Good points.. but my service guy showed me the fluid sample in a vile that he saved, and it was as dark as a Coca Cola and viscosity of thin maple syrup. And then showed me the color and visicosity of the new ATF. That got my attention.

Why wouldn't Lexus have that as a service requirement at 60k and maybe 100k. They would make money doing it and clean clear fluids throughout the car would obviously keep these cars going for years.

An oil sample sent to a lab, like Chevron's labs here in Sf Bay area, would have cost a bundle, proving a point to no one who would really care.

[SW03ES]

Why wouldn't Lexus have that as a service requirement at 60k and maybe 100k. They would make money doing it and clean clear fluids throughout the car would obviously keep these cars going for years.

Personally? I think there is a lot of industry pressure to make cars "maintenance free". You have companies like BMW having oil change intervals like 25,000 miles and paying for all the maintenance for 50,000 miles and doing relatively little. Lexus has just gone to 10,000 mile oil change intervals on the new cars with synthetic oil and they have always very staunchly been opposed to drawing out oil change intervals when using synthetic oil.

If you have a BMW that needs oil changes every 25k...and BMW will do it for free for 5 years 50k miles...and a Lexus that needs a $200 service every 5k miles you can see the concern for Lexus.

Now, with that said technology is getting better and these synthetic fluids and better filters can last longer between changes...so only time will tell I suppose.

Analysis wouldn't have cost you more than $20 or so, and I disagree that nobody would care. I think such an analysis would have been of tremendous value to the Lexus community...

[eatingupblacktop]

Exactly, as without an oil analysis, the colour is just a guess as to the condition. For sure it will change colour in service, and I'm aware that Honda transmissions routinely show "dark" oil, and it's considered normal.

An oil sample sent to a lab, like Chevron's labs here in Sf Bay area, would have cost a bundle, proving a point to no one who would really care.

Analysis wouldn't have cost you more than $20 or so, and I disagree that nobody would care. I think such an analysis would have been of tremendous value to the Lexus community...

Agreed! There are plenty of well read threads on oil & UOA's. The former Mburnickas was the self appointed LOC UOA meister and advocate. You can find a lot of reading here:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=13

[ggemigniani]

Toyota's "no need to change transmission and power steering fluid policy" is valid and legitimate for keeping the 6 year, 70,000 mile powertrain warranty in effect, but not valid for owners who wish drive 300,000 or 400,000 miles without needing a new transmission, power steering pump or steering rack.

[97LS400]

Ok, I think we beat the transmission fluid issue to death. I have a question on the power steering fluid. I know I need to change mine at 143k on my 97 ls. It probably is the original. I have never looked at it or seen a service interval on it. I have read different things on changing it from draining it at the hose or solenoid to sucking it out a few times between turning the wheel. I understand that getting out the air is the problem with the normal drain and fill method. I really need to do this as I am also have been hearing noise on turns.

So here is the question. Does anyone have a good DIY method that will completely replace the fluid and clean any parts(solenoid,e,g.,). Pics would be great. I do not have a service manual, so I need pretty detailed info. Do you use the Toyota brand steering fluid or are there recommended aftermarket brands that work better. Since I plan to keep this car any recommendations on a service interval to replace this fluid again would help as well.

Also, I hate to start something again on the tranny issue, but I have not heard of this "BG" flush. I was going to flush mine using the "add a quart as you drain a quart method" that I saw on this site. I did this with my Explorer and it seemed to work pretty well. But this car is more important to me to keep in A1 condition. Any comments or recommendations would be very helpful.

Thanks!

[eatingupblacktop]

Ok, I think we beat the transmission fluid issue to death. I have a question on the power steering fluid. I know I need to change mine at 143k on my 97 ls. It probably is the original. I have never looked at it or seen a service interval on it. I have read different things on changing it from draining it at the hose or solenoid to sucking it out a few times between turning the wheel. I understand that getting out the air is the problem with the normal drain and fill method. I really need to do this as I am also have been hearing noise on turns.

So here is the question. Does anyone have a good DIY method that will completely replace the fluid and clean any parts(solenoid,e,g.,). Pics would be great. I do not have a service manual, so I need pretty detailed info. Do you use the Toyota brand steering fluid or are there recommended aftermarket brands that work better. Since I plan to keep this car any recommendations on a service interval to replace this fluid again would help as well.

Also, I hate to start something again on the tranny issue, but I have not heard of this "BG" flush. I was going to flush mine using the "add a quart as you drain a quart method" that I saw on this site. I did this with my Explorer and it seemed to work pretty well. But this car is more important to me to keep in A1 condition. Any comments or recommendations would be very helpful.

Thanks!

Ok, here ya go:

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/steering/psflush.html

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/transmission/transflush.html