So, Now I'm Thinking Of One New...

[RX in NC]

Good luck to you. Unless you want to significantly increase the amount of time that you spend working on your vehicles yourself, I think you're making a mistake. From previous postings, I was under the impression that you want to decrease your maintenance time and expense, not increase it. But, to each his own. And again, good luck....

[nc211]

RX, what's up with you? Why are you always trying to *BLEEP* on everyone's parade? You've been all over these board flappin' your know-it-all gums about how superior your used Jag is, and then you imply a BMW 3 series is a maintenance hog. I believe I still have the Top Gear show that states BMW sells more 3 series in Europe than we sell Honda Civics here in the US. In fact, I believe the 3 series is the top selling car in Europe, and one of the world's top selling cars in general. They have rave reviews for driving experience / safety / and reliability from sources like Edmunds / Consumer Reports / Car Gurus / and most importantly - people who actually own them! Are they perfect? No, but we're not talking about a Ferrari that requires a PhD to change the oil, or has to be flown back to the plant just to change the spark plugs. We're talking about a 3 liter engine that's been in production for decades. We're talking about a platform that has won the praise of the buying community and industry experts. We're talking about a car from one of the only manufacturers to not be swimming in red ink and fearing being sold off or going out of business (Jag, Volvo, Saab), which doesn't help values and honorable warranties.

Funny, the cars that have dug the deepest into my wallet for "maintenance" are the ones that everyone says are the best built - Toyota. My LS to chase out vibrations. My 4runner and its $400 price tag to change the sealed transmission fluid (lifetime, my butt), and if I keep the GS, another round of "ouch" part prices to keep it from wandering all over the road due to softening suspension / steering bushings. Oh, and the $800 in new tires I'll be needing in a few months to get ready for yet another glorious midwestern winter.

I appreciate the "good luck", but that's what the BMW certified warranty is for. You need to lighten up a bit.

[RX in NC]

And you need to recognize my post for exactly what the hell it is - my opinion. I have a lot of BMW experience in my extended family from the 750i on down to the X5 series. Not trying to *BLEEP* on your parade at all. I've tried to help you in your endeavor, believe it or not. I suggested that you stay with your current line-up until you finish serving your Chicago sentence. When you said no, I suggested another 4Runner since you've been pleased with your current one. Again, just my opinion. It's your money, it's your choice, do whatever you want. But don't tell people to "lighten up" when you ask for suggestions or opinions....

By the way, our S-Type is doing just fine. Still the best bang-for-the-buck touring sedan we've ever had. It does two-thirds of my wife's annual miles, while the RX330 does the other one-third essentially as our dog-hauler. Still think that it should have been a Subaru Outback instead....

I do indeed wish you luck with whatever you decide to do with your fleet. And I promise you - you'll get no more suggestions, feedback, or advice from me on this subject, or any other, in the future....

[LEXIRX330]

NC. I love my X5...to be honest I think it is one of my favorite cars...SAV, SUV or whatever it is that I have ever had. The warranty on the BMW's is close to the same as the Lexus CPO...besides a $50.00 deductible. I am sure that you will be offered a maintenance plan as well. I did not purchase it... I have followed the BMW forms and most of the X3 owners seem happy. This is a good one... http://www.xoutpost.com I think you will be fine...with the X3.

I am curious is there anything that sways you more to the X3 then the X5? Not trying to get you to change your mind I am just wondering? Price? Size?

[nc211]

Lexi - the price is a big part of it. I originally went out looking at the X5. I think they're beautiful, and like the interior better than the X3. The problem I'm running into is the price / year. For our range, we can get into an 06-07 fully loaded X3, or an 03-04 X5, which zeros the warranty. The other problem I'm running into with the X5 is the engine. I've been told by my local BMW shop to avoid the V8's (4.4 and 4.6), as they see the most repairs on those two engines, and frequently. They said the 3.0 V6 is all-but bullet proof and has plenty of power. The problem is, the used X5's around here seem to either be in the mileage window for us, but with the V8, or too many miles for us on the V6. The other area that I seem to be seeing more on the X5 than the X3 is the wear n' tear on the interior and on the seats. The X3's coming to market seem to be coming off lease, in great shape, as were the X5s in our range are either 2nd owner cars, or pretty rough on the inside - specifically the door handles being torn up. I just can't find one that is in good enough condition to give me comfort that it was taken good care of. The other area that concerns me on the X5s up here, is their true ability to go off-road. The X3s are basicaly street-only (foul weather) cars. But the X5 can be taken off-road, and they sort of invite an owner to do-so. I think the reason why the ones I'm seeing in our range are "rough" is because of this.

The other part that makes the X3 my main pick, is the excitement I see on my wife's face. Her mom has one, and I can tell the car gives her a little more sense of "home" up here. That, to me, is probably the biggest reason why I'm after the X3. We've looked and looked and looked at cars over the past month, with the X3 being the only one she shows any real excitement for. All the others are "ok", even though they're more luxurious and/or bigger. The X3 rings her bell, which makes me happy too! I do wish they had the X5 front end though!

[LEXIRX330]

All I can say bud. You are a patient man. I don't think that I could car shop...this long. I wish I could be this patient when looking for a new car...I think that I would go crazy.

Well as you know if mommas not happy well nobodies happy...so if she wants the X3...then the X3 it is. I heard the same things about the V8's in the BMW and the 3.0 drinks enough gas and has plenty of power. I will tell you if you truly plan on using BMW's recommended 1 service a year or 10,000 or 12,000 miles plan on adding a little oil. I get mine changed every 6,500 - 7,500 with Amsoil so I don't usually have a problem with this. Keep us posted!

[cduluk]

The X3 is a decent looking SUV. It's definitely more sporty than the RX...

[SW03ES]

A lot smaller than the RX too...

[nc211]

Yeah, it is definetly smaller inside, that's for sure. But it is bigger than it appears, which was a suprise to me. I put the seats where we normally would have them, then sat in the back. Plenty of room for adults and car seats. It definetly sits and feels a "car", not an SUV. It's about as close to the 3 series wagon as you can get, and not have to deal with those run flat tires. The RX definetly has a more refined feel to it, all around. From the mechanicals to the way the door sounds when you close it. But, the X3 has it's appealing characteristics in this category too, just different. I do like the sound of that engine in the cabin. Sounds gooooood!

I'd say the X3 and GX are in two totally different market segments, two totally different vehicles. I really wanted to "love" the GX series, and certainly do like it a lot. But with a 4runner sitting next to it, I just couldn't "love" it's newness to the line up. Kind of felt like we were buying something too close to what we've already got in the 4runner, except for the obvious and significant luxury uptick on the interior. Those GX's are very nice! The RX is too. But, I swear guys, no matter how hard I try to talk myself out of a BMW, no matter how hard I search and search and search at everything else, that darn itch just gets worse and worse. That smell of BMW leather is just intoxicating to me. Who knows, we may end up hating it in 18 months and try something else. With our price range of high teen$ for this car, I'm not too worried about taking any signifiant "lumps" if we decide we don't like it, which was a fear of mine with Volvo. I've got to scratch this itch, it's driving me insane!!

There are quite a few X3's in the area that fit the budget quite nicely. I think this is just a matter of time "literally, I have little time these days for this" before I find the right one.

This is the one I looked at Saturday, only to find out it wasn't a Certified car, and had actually been in 4 accidents. Salesman guy lied to me on the phone. They're about right for asking price, on a non-wrecked one that is! He pushed hard, but when I told him $11k cash all-in, take or leave it, he left it, which was my intention anyway. Beautiful car though.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=37603360&listingRecNum=83&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26alMdId%3D22310%26mkId%3D20005%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D22310%26rd%3D30%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoYear%26zc%3D60137%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26yrMn%3D2006%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26yrMx%3D2007%26alMkId%3D20005%26rpp%3D250%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

[cduluk]

I think you should get one then <_< You only live once, right?

I like the blue on the one you pictured, reminds me of the indigo ink pearl of my old Rx300. But definitely stay away from any vehicle with accident history unless you can confirm it was only minor damage. From looking at the pics of the one you posted, it appears that it was repaired correctly as all the gaps (hood, door, etc) look OK. But it's probably best to keep looking.

[smooth1]

Hey NC, where are you moving to when you leave the breaking wind city?

[nc211]

Hey Smooth, we're thinking two most likely areas will be either DC, or Atlanta. My business contacts and strengths are mostly in DC, but do have some in Atlanta too. Just waiting for the economic channels to clear up. My sector is starting to hire "we're a small fraternity of sorts", but there is so much talent on the sidelines, if you're not in the city where the job is, it's tough to get it. That will change in about a year, and they'll be sending out the head-hunters again. We'll know more come November, when the general elections are held. Huge year for Washington and the economy. Inflation is coming at some point, and the chatter on the street is that the November elections could be the trigger, especially given the rocky world of politics these days. Just like you could see the economic mess starting to take shape in early 2007 for the Presidential elections. It's all a repeat of history. We're in 1981-1983 right now, just a 21st century version. Just waiting for the lanes to clear a bit more.... I'd like DC, but my wife would like Atlanta. For what I do for a living, all three of the top dogs of my industry have offices in both cities, with us being the only ones not there "covering them from Chitcago".

[smooth1]

Either place the BMW will serve you well. I have a neigbor that has an Infinity FX and a BMW X3. When I was looking to get an SUV, I talked to him about his and while he liked the FX, he wished he would have gotten the X5 for himself as he loves driving his wifes X3. But he didn't wanna be a "double beamer owner" LOL! He said it was like going camping with a good pair of sneakers. You know you should have boots, but tenny shoes just do everything so darn well. It was actually our talk that helped convince me to get the MB. He took a few extra steps to let me know that he's had the X3 almost a year longer than the FX, while the X3 has never been in the shop, and has only had 1 oil change so far, ( it had 19,000 miles on it and he said he has had it just over two years.) and the FX has been in the shop 3 times, and has cost him more in regular maintenance then the X3.

I know there are Toyota'a and Honda's that have been known to go a lifetime without issue. But I've owned Fords and Chevy's that have acheived the same, and I know of some Beamers and MB's that have gone just as long as well. If I'm not mistaken, a European car holds the record for the most miles on the original engine and drivetrain. I'm pretty sure it's a 40 year old Volvo P1800 which last I heard just turned 2.5 million miles! And it's been privately owned the entire time! So just get what you like.

*** I found an article about that Volvo.....

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/06/20/011973.html

[nc211]

I think BMW is in their "prime" right now for getting things more right than wrong. They all go through their cycles. Hopefully MB is coming out of their "dark decade". For all of the horror stories we've all "heard" about BMW, how many times, in all honesty, have you actually personally known someone to have one that was built over the past 10 years that was a real and true nightmare? I've only personally known of one, a girl in Birmingham back in 2001 that bought a 2001 325 wagon, which I think was towards the early years of that entire model series in general. Of the comments I've read about the BMW's, specifically the 3 series, there appeared to be problems with roofliner glue on some, some kind of subframe mount in the back on ragged-out coupes, a few noises in their VAMOS timing system, and the 01-04 5 series cooling issues. None of these are really that far out of the ordinary, especially considering how BMW tends to push the driver to "drive" it. Granted, yes, there are those horror stories out there, but I think that could be said for all cars in general, including Lexus.

I think Toyota is flirting with their "dark decade" right now. Seems to be quite a few more complaints about the newly designed line up over the past couple of years. If they are entering that phase, I'm quite confident it won't be nearly as bad as others, and they'll make the turn-around much quicker.

At the end of the day...they're just cars. Technology and such has made leaps and bounds over the past 10+ years, which I think is seen in the quality of products in general. When was the last time you had to call the TV repair man? Or any appliance for that matter? I can't think of a single call I've had to make on anything over the past decade, other than my two Lexus cars. Which, even then, given their ages and mileage, werent all that out of the ordinary. Heck, i'm still on the same cell-phone (RAZR) from over four years ago, and refuse to replace it until it finally dies, which doesn't seem to be anytime soon. I must say, my GS has held up exceptionally well up here in Chitcago. It amazes me how tight and rattle free that car still is, given the environment it's operated in for so long. They do built an exceptional quality vehicle, no argument there!

[nc211]

Well, found out today some very good news! #2 is...a....GIRL!!! One boy, and one girl..... I'm LIVIN, and my little troopers are now heading for retirement! Huge news around here, as my wife (and I) really wanted a girl. This news makes a WORLD of positive difference for us here in Chitcago!

On the car front news: Looking like 07 or 08 decked out BMW X3 CPO. Meeting with my guy tomorrow to look over the offerings in a massive Ohio auction going on now. A few white ones in the lineup. Still under bumper bumper warranty, so not too worried about it. Will know more later!

[cduluk]

hey congratulations!!

[LEXIRX330]

Well, found out today some very good news! #2 is...a....GIRL!!! One boy, and one girl.....

CONGRATS! That us a boy and a girl...it is great! Only thing NC...start laying the law down right away...that way there are no suprises...No BOYS/MEN until 40, just because your brother can stay out doesn't mean that you can. My little girl is 9 months and she just smiles and laughs at me...my little boy is almost 3...they grow up so fast my little boy is just a little chatter box.

Good luck with the X3, but you may want to consider an CARGO VAN...the rx330 is so loaded down when we go anywhere...double stroller...car seats...bags...kids toys...and just stuff. It seems crazy...I have considered a larger SUV because of this.

[SW03ES]

Congratulations!

[nc211]

Thanks fellas! We had a 3D ultrasound this past weekend to 100% confirm this news - very cool technology, 100% girl! Last Monday, we couldn't tell, but the ultrasound lady was leaning more towards girl. That just drove us nuts (and we were super nervous already). Wife had a normal visit the next day, doctor decided to try again on the ultrasound. He was 90% sure it was a girl. Made us feel much better, but still, that 10% was lingering in our minds...so, for $40, we went to one of these "First Peek" places for the 3D technology. Confirmed, girl!

Why can I pay $40 for an ultrasound whenever I want it, but our doctor's office can't do but two throughout the term for insurance reasons ($500 a pop)? Makes no sense to me, at all.

Anyway - the car hunt continues - I'm focused on Acura now. I was within an inch of an X3 this past weekend. I wanted that car so badly - it was an 07' sports package with all the bells and whistles. Had 47k miles, still had normal warranty until 2011 / 50k miles, then could be CPO on my dime. I...just...couldn't...do...it. My better half, the sensible side, would not shut up about buying a used BMW with only 3k miles left of warranty (not talking about my wife, talking about that little voice in my head). God, it was one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in a long long time. But...sometimes you get lucky when you don't realize it. BMW X3 forums are set-up much like ours here. The #1 sticky post of complaints? The 07-09 automatic transmissions, the GM6. Not sure if GM built it, but it sure does seem to be a sizable problem for the car. Glad I passed on the car.

Drove two Acura's this past weekend, both 07's, both CPO's. First one - the RDX - a 2.3 turbo mini suv. Love the interior, love all the toys. Don't love the engine. The turbo is not smooth with it's power delivery, and creates a lot of noise inside the cabin, sounds "rough". Rides a little hard too. Second - the TSX - LOVE IT! It's basically the European version of the Honda Accord. It's got a 2.4 4 with 205 HP. Rear seats fold down which satisfies the IKEA cargo situation. Has front wheel drive, which helps the winter issue. But, what it has that I really really miss from the Mazda, and has become my #1 favorite option - triptronic transmission. The RDX has this too, but in paddle format, not stick format, which means you've got to be at 10-2 to do it. I love the ability to slide the gear knob over and then bump up and down through the gears. If the IS250 AWD had the ability to fold down the rear seats, I'd give them a serious look too. I've all but given up on the wagon idea, and the small SUV world as well. Can't find a wagon that doesn't make me think I'm buying someone else's problems. Smaller SUV's just ride rough or have interior designs that bore me to tears, or are bare-bones. Looked at a couple VW Tiquans...no thanks. Talk about a problem waiting to happen. A 2.0 turbo engine pushing AWD on an SUV is just not a good balance for reliability purposes. So, my last option is front wheel drive, with fold down rear seats. It's hard to argue against the TSX, especially when you can buy an 07' fully loaded with NAV, CPO'd, with less than 30k miles, for $20K out the door. There's a lot of good choices out there too. It's my understanding that they really discounted the leases on these cars, making the residual price to buy at the end of a person's lease term higher than the value of the car. Just like my old 01' Maxima. Great car, but too many out there for the residual prices to hold against the actual market values. Nissan wouldn't negotiate, so I turned it back in. Seems to be the same situation with the TSX's. Given the go-go days of 06-07, this might be the case with several cars (not just Acura). Might be the way to buy into a CPO car? I have noticed that most of the BMW's coming to market from the auctions are either the X3's or 3 series sedans (07-08) with the basic "lease packages" of leatherette and silver trim pieces. Just can't bring myself to pull the damn trigger on one. 95% of me wants to sign the document, but that 5% just won't let it go. X3's seem like great cars, built like a tank, drive really nicely, just love them. But man, if you get a bad one, you're in that rabbit hole pretty deep. Without a slam-dunk warranty for several years (which puts them out of my price comfort zone), just can't do it. I'd be paranoid everytime I drove the thing. Honda however, well, we all know their reputation. Plus, a 7year/100k cpo warranty sure sounds a lot better to me than 12months/3k miles on a BMW. You can really feel the "european" character in the TSX. Certainly doesn't drive like an Accord, and doesn't punish your back like the tighter set-up of the TL.

By the way....whoever is in charge of the new designs of Acura, needs to stop watching the movie Transformers. They totally screwed up the entire line-up with these new designs, in my opinion. Although, the big RDX looks pretty damn nice. Who knows....maybe become the next 4runner someday.

[cduluk]

Haha You can't seem to make up your mind!

Are you really considering going for a sedan vs an SUV? Because that opens SOO many more doors. If you're considering the Acura TSX, why not look at the Lexus GS? The 06 GS300 might be a little more than the 07 TSX, but you're getting more car... Or what about Infiniti? The G series is a pretty sporty sedan, and the M is pretty nice too.

Have you looked at the Acura TL? One of my best friends has an 04 TL, it's pretty nice. My only complaint about the TL is the fact that it's FWD- if you hit the pedal hard the steering wheel rips right out of your hand... Even better than the TL might be the RL. A little more roomy than the TL, but also a little slower.

Acura's are definitely known for their "toys" and gadgets. The interior quality is a little questionable, but they seem to be very reliable.

[nc211]

I know man, this is an insane process for me! I have NEVER had this much trouble before!

It's hard for me to find an SUV that works for us. We've already got the 4runner, which is a complete winner on all levels. Don't want or need two of them. Don't need a Sequoia/Land Cruiser sized vehicle, yet. Can't find a wagon (beyond the obvious perfect choice of an Outback - blame my wife on that one) that works either, unless I'm willing to go "naked" on warranty within 12 months. Have too much hair left to sign up for the minivan land. So, that leaves me in the sedan world, or the hatchback world. No hatchbacks ring my bells for a 4 door 4 seater. Hate the VW GTI interior, and again, it's VW. So, it's sedans with fold down rear seats. The cars you mention either (1) don't have fold down rear seats (2) are rear wheel drive - I don't want in the winter here anymore - (3) puts me back in the CPO price range of BMW, which I'd be fine with, if I were willing to spend $25k-$30k on a second vehicle, which I'm not willing to do. I'm in the $20k range. The Lexus ES would be a logical choice as well, but again, no folding rear seats. I need a vehicle that if we're going to buy something that needs some room, won't require me 100% of the time to take out the car seats and leave the wife/kids at home while dad takes the 4runner. I also need a car that on those winter days when it's predicted to snow a few inches, I'm not leaving the wife and kids at home with a rwd 300hp Lexus that offers a "button" for traction control. That doesn't work for me anymore. Buying my GS430, albeit a wonderful car, was a mistake that I admit to. I listened to what I "wanted" over what I "need" when I bought it. Now, I'm listening to what I "need" vs what I "want". I need ability and coverage. I want a BMW. The two don't line up under $25k, so it's a balance.

I also like the MPG of the TSX. Since 70% of the driving around here is actually just sitting in traffic, no need for a big V8 in a sedan setting. Granted, sure is nice to stomp on it and get ahead of traffic in a blink of the eye, but those opportunities are rare at best.

[cduluk]

Hmm.... what about the Toyota Camry? It has FWD and 60/40 rear folding seats. It doesn't have much "prestige" but they can come with all the bells and whistles and EXCELLENT reliability. If you can get over the fact that it's only a "Toyota" then it's the perfect car. You could probably find a loaded 09 or 010 in the $20k range.

And i agree about VW, their interiors are CRAP. I also find the VW new car smell VERY offensive...

And for the TSX, have you looked at the 2009 TSX's? They upgraded the design a little... Could you wait a few years for the prices to come down to get the newer style?

[smooth1]

So what about the Nissan Pathfinder, Ford Flex AWD, or even the new Ford Taurus AWD limited stationwagon, and I think you should give the Volvo XC90 another good look. I also went to the auctions this weekend. I saw alot of LAndRover LR2's going thru there in the price range your looking in. You might also want to go and look at the new Jeep Grand Cherokee.

[nc211]

Smooth, aren't the LR2's a maintenance nightmare though, like most Land Rovers?

I'm curious man, with your ability to see what's going on at auction, in your opinion, what is the typical "spread" between a car sold at auction and on a dealer's lot? Say, a 2007 Acura RDX with 40k miles.

I might be timing this wrong, as it just doesn't seem like $20k in cash buys much of anything that isn't north of 60k miles and out of warranty anymore, or bare-bones. I'm starting to think (1) wait for summer to pass (2) shop outside of Chitcago (3) wait for the double-dip in the recession to hit. 12 months ago I could walk into a dealership with a wad of cash, and not make it out the door with it in my pocket. Now, not so much, unless I want to buy something that has been wrecked and north of 50k miles. I'm about to just say f'it and wait for the fall to come, when we all know the economy in general slows down with people's attitudes of wrapping up their summers. I just got back from looking at a 07 TSX with 30k miles, white, CPO, for asking $21k. Trunk all scratched up, moisture in the headlight, and misaligned front bumper lines, missing plastic parts inside. WTF?

[smooth1]

Hmm, it's difficult to "pigeon hole" mark up as alot of factors go into that. I would say most of what I see is 40% over the vehicle cost, but the vehicle cost has to include incurred costs as well, so net profit is generally around 25-30%. Of which they may be willing to wheel and deal in the 10-12% range. But with what has been going on with the economy, I see alot of dealers putting that price on the tag just to show a lower price to begin with, and are just not willing to negotiate down any further.

I have plenty of friends with LR2's and I haven't heard any of them complain or bring issues to me, which if they did have any issues and complaints, I always hear about it! I think one of them had an adaptive head light issue that was fixed under warrentee. The Freelanders, (Model before the LR2) I think had some strange issues, like rust on the exhaust systems, and some really cheesy plastic. While I think ALL car mfgrs have SOME cheesy plastic, I think the LR2 is much better. Something to remember though is that when you cross combine vehicles, you almost always end up having to make some choices. For example, the LandRover is extremely off road capable, so on road ride may not be as smooth as a luxury brand SUV. And the old 80's Range Rover is the one that gave LAndRover the bad name. But again, they were experiencing assembly workers consistancy problems more than engineering issues. If you got a Wednesday RangeRover, that thing would last forever, but a Friday one was a constant nightmare breakdown. Most all mfgr's are automated now.

An 07 TSX? man, that's a itty bitty car! I thought you wanted something with alot more space, and bad weather capable? You won't be happy with that one 6 months from now.

I would take another look at the Volvo XC90. Like an 07 or an 08.