Drove A Cadillac Cts And Sat In A New Srx Today...

[SW03ES]

I left the office early today and was waiting on the cleaning crew to be done at home so I figured I would pop in to the Caddy dealer and check out a new CTS. I have sat in them a couple times but have never driven one, and a coworker of mine traded his ES330 in on one and loved it so I figured I would check it out.

Exterior: First of all I AM a fan of the new Art & Science design theme from Cadillac. I think they are good looking and very unique cars. I love the rear with the wide LED high mount stop lights and the tall taillamps. Very "Cadillac" without looking goofy and retro. I like the grille and all in all the trim is metal and high quality.

Interior: I am not completely thrilled with the styling of the CTS on the inside, it seems to try to hard to me sometimes. It is very well built with excellent materials though. The seats are firm but supportive. The dash layout is good, I'm not a huge fan of pop-up navigation screens because I like to be able to see the map even when I am not using the system. The Bose Audio system is excellent, and I was surprised that Caddy's navigation system was also excellent. Real time traffic worked well, and the system has a nice high-res screen, although not as sharp as in the new Lexus cars. One weird thing, the nav system does not operate when the audio is off. If you want to use the nav...or the screen at all...the system MUST be on and if you don't want to listen to the radio you have to mute the volume. Very strange...

The car is small, significantly smaller than an ES while being slightly larger than an IS...but only slightly. With my seat adjusted the way I like the rear seat is very tight.

The IP is good, optitron style, with an excellent driver info center that allows adjustment of all the things we have to do through LPS.

All in all its too small a vehicle for me no question...

Ride & Drive: The CTS rode well, sporty, but not as sporty as an IS. Power was excellent and very smooth. The car I drove had the 18" wheels which I love the look of but would probably opt for the 17s for a softer ride. On the ride home in the Lexus the ride difference was very distinct, the ES really rode well driving home and it is much more my kind of car.

So all in all I was impressed...definately wouldn't be a purchase for me and I doubt most people who would look at an ES would be interested in one.

What I sat in and REALLY liked was the new SRX crossover SUV. Couldn't drive one, ran out of time, but the vehicle is VERY classy looking and obviously much more spacious than the CTS. I'll try and get by to drive one another time...but I could see myself in that SRX...

[smooth1]

Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on Cadillac. GM's only real light of hope. I don't like the 09 back as much as I like the new 2010. The grill rework and the interior improvements definately helped the CTS quite a bit.

[cduluk]

I really like the styling of most of the new Cadillac models out. If i believed they'd be as reliable as Lexus' i'd be even more interested though... :(

[SW03ES]

Their reliability has really improved as per JD Power and Consumer Reports...

[cduluk]

Their reliability has really improved as per JD Power and Consumer Reports...

ehh... i'll have to see it for myself <_<

[SW03ES]

Reliability for a Cadillac has never really been the issue. In my experience the issue was more body rigidity...the engines and transmissions are very reliable.

[blake918]

Cool, good review! I really love the new CTS; I just wonder how spacious it is inside (for the driver, don't care about the back seat). I'm shocked that Lexus still requires you to go in to the dealer to change LPS/CBES when a $20,000 GM can change them from its Driver Information Center.

[SW03ES]

Its pretty tight...wouldn't work for you I bet.

[smooth1]

Its pretty tight...wouldn't work for you I bet.

For as hard to believe as it sounds, the CTS and the IS interiors are about the same size. The CTS might have slightly more space in the rear seats. But's thats about it.

And other than the the Northstar crapping out at 90K miles issue, Cadillac has come a long way in quality.I just can't bring myslef to like GM right now though. I'm still pretty torqued about the whole bailout thing.

[SW03ES]

Oh yeah, I instantly thought of the IS when I drove the CTS...

[cduluk]

I saw a commercial for GM today, something about a 60 day "buy-back" guarantee, and a 10yr 100mi warranty?? It sounds like they're trying at least...

[eatingupblacktop]

I saw a commercial for GM today, something about a 60 day "buy-back" guarantee, and a 10yr 100mi warranty?? It sounds like they're trying at least...

This just might be their ticket now that CARS is done. I've seen warranties like this at a local Buick dealer a couple of years ago. Of course, stipulation for the program was that the owner had to service their car for the entire period at this dealership (how else would they make any money :P ). Still, there are a lot of buyers sitting on the fence with GM right now. Time for GM to think outside the box. I bet a lot of buyers would love to "see the USA in their Chevrolet" if they could only believe in the product.

[smooth1]

It's a powertrain warrentee.

And what's their first real effort? A $50K+ Hybrid Yukon????? 50K?

" Dear American public, thank you for all your money to keep us from closing. In return, we present to you a 15K upcharge for our hybrid effort. Just because we like your money so much. We know that a Lexus RX hybrid is $10,000 less, and so is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. But please feel good about knowing the people who would like to further seperate you from your money live right next door, here in the good old US of A!"

[eatingupblacktop]

It's a powertrain warrentee.

And what's their first real effort? A $50K+ Hybrid Yukon????? 50K?

" Dear American public, thank you for all your money to keep us from closing. In return, we present to you a 15K upcharge for our hybrid effort. Just because we like your money so much. We know that a Lexus RX hybrid is $10,000 less, and so is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. But please feel good about knowing the people who would like to further seperate you from your money live right next door, here in the good old US of A!"

And then again, there are some who aren't sitting on the fence! Good luck to GM for getting these drivers into their showrooms!

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

It's a powertrain warrentee.

And what's their first real effort? A $50K+ Hybrid Yukon????? 50K?

" Dear American public, thank you for all your money to keep us from closing. In return, we present to you a 15K upcharge for our hybrid effort. Just because we like your money so much. We know that a Lexus RX hybrid is $10,000 less, and so is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. But please feel good about knowing the people who would like to further seperate you from your money live right next door, here in the good old US of A!"

Meanwhile, WAY too much GM stuff is outsourced ... side view mirrors, seats, door assemblies wiper motors, whole engines, etc are made in Canada, Mexico, China etc. Often it's because running factories 'in house' creates headaches besides high U.S. wages ... by outsourcing our manufacturing, we ultimately outsource our pollution / toxins / environmental headaches to other countries too. Then we say we're green, because the 16mpg land barge now gets 19mpg. what a bunch of hogwash.

[SW03ES]

We know that a Lexus RX hybrid is $10,000 less, and so is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

To be fair...thats not true. The Highlander Hybrid fully loaded is $47k...and the RX450h approaches $60k.

[smooth1]

We know that a Lexus RX hybrid is $10,000 less, and so is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid.

To be fair...thats not true. The Highlander Hybrid fully loaded is $47k...and the RX450h approaches $60k.

Ok, to keep it fair, you can't compare a fully loaded RX to a Tahoe because you get alot of things on an RX that aren't offered on a Tahoe. And a fully loaded Hybrid Tahoe is +$57k ! So let's just keep this to base sticker pricing. If you wanted an RX hybrid, you can get one for about $44k. And a Chevy Tahoe base starts at $51k. And you still get more "standard features" on an RX than you would on a Tahoe, not to mention the history of Toyota/Lexus compared to GM's less than stellar performance history. And who in thier right mind would like to visit a GM service center over a posh Lexus service estates? It's just plainly clear to me that the Hybrid Tahoe is about $15-20K overpriced. I could understand the bells and whistles taking the price to $50k with DVD players and extra chrome packages and etc. etc. but that just isn't the case here.

And in all fairness, we should only compare the Tahoe to the Highlander, as it should be a Cadillac compared to the Lexus. And a Cadillac Escalade Hybrid starts at $73k! Compare that to a Lexus LX no Hybrid. You almost have to laugh. Lexus has a higher towing capacity, more hp, alot more amenities, and the same MPG's. Not to mention the LX doesn't feel and look like a bus. LOL!!

[Kyle Petree]

Here, I'll put in my 2¢. I never had a problem with the quality of a GM product and before my ES my family was strictly GM. My first car was a 2006 Pontiac G6 that I bought brand new and it was a great car. The reason I won't buy one is because of the service, all the GM dealers in my area are known for cheating people in sales and !Removed! people on service.

Also GM needs to focus on their practical hybrids like the Chevy Malibu. Most of the people who buy Tahoes, Yukons, and Escallades don't care about the gas mileage (plus they slap that ridiculous Hybrid sticker on the side of it). They need something like a Chevy Equinox/GMC Terrain/Cadillac SRX Hybrid, they brag right now about how the regualar gas versions get 32mpg highway, make it a hybrid and they'd really have something going! Well actually, the had it going in the Saturn Vue Hybrid, which they dumped, GM what are you thinking!?!?

[cduluk]

I didn't know that GM outsourced many of their parts

They'd may as well outsource ALL of their parts, buy a cheap facility in Asia, build them there, and sell them as Foreign cars (vs American)- maybe American's would buy them then? lol. I think people associate "American built" as being of less quality than "foreign built".

I think it comes down to costs vs profits. It's simply more expensive to build cars here in America because of laws, increased material cost, and greater wages. If you gave GM $20,000 and Toyota $20,000, Toyota can do more with it because they have less costs than GM would have to deal with.

I keep hearing about how Ford and GM are building better quality cars that are in par with Toyota's- all for the same price. My question is, HOW? Unless they're cutting into their profits (which i doubt), i don't see how they can make a better car with the same amount of money...

I don't doubt GM and Ford "could" build a superior car, it's just not economical for them to. They have the knowledge and materials to make a car of really good quality, but it would take them a lot of money to make. If they were to make a copy of the Lexus ES for example, they "could" do it, but they'd have to price it more because their costs would be greater... It's just not possible to compete with foreign car makers!

[nc211]

In terms of costs: I think it's somewhat irrelevant to try, given the factors associated with tarriffs, strength of currencies, etc... If we wanted to, we could make buying any "import" a lot worse!

In terms of outsourcing: Show me a modern day automobile that doesn't contain parts from just about every industrialized nation on earth these days? VW has made cars in Mexico for years. Honda makes cars in Alabama, as does MB. Nissan in Tennessee, Subaru in Indiana, etc.. So, it only makes sense that Ford/GM/Chrystler utilize some of this as well. I'm not sure what BMW and Porsche do, but I'd have to guess something in those cars is probably from Japan, Canada and Mexico too.

In terms of quality......it's a new day, a new dawn, and I think we're in for a pretty neat showing from the Motown Trio. I think they're listening, and I think they got the point last year. You've got to build better, or fade off into the history books. I'm excited to see what Chrystler can do with Fiat in it's boardroom now. Granted, they'll probably be maintenace pigs, but will probably be pretty cool to look at! If I had to make a guess, I would not be surprised if the Honda Accord returns to a "cramped - tin can machine" status when compared to a Taurus. I think Ford is going to dominate soon. They've got some fine looking automobiles out, and coming out. In the land of utter excess "Newport Beach, California", guess what the "it" car is becoming? Now, mind you, this is a place of all the toys, the largest and most profitable MB dealership, Lexus, Lambo, Ferarri, etc..... Guess?

The Ford Flex! Moms are lining up out there to trade in their MB SUV's for this Flex! My boss bought one for his wife, who in turn has influenced nearly all of her friends to get one. These are millionaires.. He says it's absolutely perfect, and likes to drive it just as much as his AMG S series and his 911 Convertible. Our 2nd in command, you guessed it...getting a Flex as well over the new MB GL.

Me personally, I think this new series of Tahoes, Suburbans, and Escalades are the finest looking SUV's on the market, period. I'd LOVE to have one, if I could justify the need. Comparing an RX to a Tahoe, in my opinion, is like comparing an ES to an LS. One is smaller cross-over, the other is a full on SUV on a truck frame. I think the Land Cruiser and LX470 is a better market comparision against the Tahoe and Suburban. Then, look at the cost differences.....

[cduluk]

I haven't seen one in person, but the "new" Taurus looks pretty nice from the commercial. Apparently it's got a lot of power- they show it passing an Audi on the commercial...

I also agree the new Escalade's and Tahoes's are pretty damn good looking. If they weren't so expensive and such gas guzzlers, and had better anticipated reliability...

[SW03ES]

The Tahoe is a much larger vehicle than the RX or the Highlander. You really need to compare the Tahoe to a Sequoia. Comparing a Hybrid Tahoe to a Hybrid Highlander is like comparing a LS600h to a Ford Focus Hybrid because both are hybrids...doesn't make any sense.

The Tahoe starts at $36,965, the Sequoia starts at $38,530. Equip them up and an LTZ Tahoe comes in at $56,240 with $4,000 cash bringing it to $52,240. A similar Sequoia Limited is $56,317...$4,100 more.

Comparing the Highlander to the Chevy Traverse is more fair. The Highlander starts at $29.050, the Traverse starts at $31,224. Loaded the Highlander Limited is $40,720 while the Traverse LTZ is $44,120

If you are going to compare the RX, compare the SRX vs the RX350.

As for the Escalade...I dunno...I see a LOT more Escalades than LXs. Its also not fair to compare the hybrid model to an LX.

An LX loaded with the rear seat DVD is a staggering $82,360

A fully loaded Escalade spec'd out the same is $73,035 with $6,000 cash back bringing it to $67.035, making it $15,325 cheaper.

I think it comes down to costs vs profits. It's simply more expensive to build cars here in America because of laws, increased material cost, and greater wages. If you gave GM $20,000 and Toyota $20,000, Toyota can do more with it because they have less costs than GM would have to deal with.

I'd agree with you except that 90% of the Toyota lineup is actually built in America.

Toyota doesn't have to deal with the UAW which helps, but its not the entire problem. Biggest problem is years of building sh!tty cars that Americans just didn't want.

[cduluk]

When do you think Ford and GM will have a reputation similar to that of Toyota? My guess, 5 years. <_<

[nc211]

When do you think Ford and GM will have a reputation similar to that of Toyota? My guess, 5 years. <_<

Keep in mind, our perception is slanted, considering we're all Toyota owners/fans. The closest I've come to owning a Ford was our former 07' Mazda 3 GT, with a Ford engine and transmission. Toyota has nothing on that car, in that segment, that in my opinion can come even close to it. So if their new Focus platform is the same or even remotely close to the Mazda 3, then I'd say they're probably already there in that segment.

[smooth1]

The Tahoe is a much larger vehicle than the RX or the Highlander. You really need to compare the Tahoe to a Sequoia. Comparing a Hybrid Tahoe to a Hybrid Highlander is like comparing a LS600h to a Ford Focus Hybrid because both are hybrids...doesn't make any sense.

The Tahoe starts at $36,965, the Sequoia starts at $38,530. Equip them up and an LTZ Tahoe comes in at $56,240 with $4,000 cash bringing it to $52,240. A similar Sequoia Limited is $56,317...$4,100 more.

Comparing the Highlander to the Chevy Traverse is more fair. The Highlander starts at $29.050, the Traverse starts at $31,224. Loaded the Highlander Limited is $40,720 while the Traverse LTZ is $44,120

If you are going to compare the RX, compare the SRX vs the RX350.

As for the Escalade...I dunno...I see a LOT more Escalades than LXs. Its also not fair to compare the hybrid model to an LX.

An LX loaded with the rear seat DVD is a staggering $82,360

A fully loaded Escalade spec'd out the same is $73,035 with $6,000 cash back bringing it to $67.035, making it $15,325 cheaper.

I think it comes down to costs vs profits. It's simply more expensive to build cars here in America because of laws, increased material cost, and greater wages. If you gave GM $20,000 and Toyota $20,000, Toyota can do more with it because they have less costs than GM would have to deal with.

I'd agree with you except that 90% of the Toyota lineup is actually built in America.

Toyota doesn't have to deal with the UAW which helps, but its not the entire problem. Biggest problem is years of building sh!tty cars that Americans just didn't want.

Steve, your points are correct. I'm not debating the "magazine" classifications and how they look on paper. I'm more approaching this as a real buyer. And I'm sorry, but when I test drove a Chevy Tahoe a few days ago, (it seats 5) and then test drove a Mercedes Benz ML350, (that also seats 5) and then say to myself that these are both the same price, all I can do is laugh! The Tahoe is no where near the ML in anything other than size. And a non hybrid ML still gets better MPG's than a Hybrid Tahoe. Not to mention the ML has 4matic AWD and a 7 speed sequential touch shift auto trans. Even without going into the office to play hard ball the salesman dropped the price in the lot on the ML to $51K with a PO2 package! That includes touch start, dolby digital surround sound by Harmon Kardon, 40 gig harddrive and hard drive nav with real time traffic, parkmatic, and a whole bunch of other useless but cool stuff on it! And I get to go to a posh Mercedes Benz dealer for service, where I can choose to wait in thier huge living room style area, or cruise the internet cafe while they bring me finger sandwiches and sodas, or I could just choose to take a loaner car to continue my day. GM offers instead, a more truck stop approach, with thier 2 week old coffee/stale newspaper smelling vinyl floored waiting room. A state of the art 1980's 21'' color TV with rabbit ears barely pulling in a local news station all the while listening to that constant digital announcement buzzer on the PA system looking for Bubba Johnson in the accessories department while I lean on a set of gumball machines so my a$$ doesn't fall asleep on the most uncomforatble, barely intact plastic chairs they could find. And no car loaner programs to get around it either. GM needs to step up on alot more before I can honestly call them competitive at $50k + offerrings. The Volt coming out holds alot of promise, and so does the Orlando Concept and the Cruze. But one of my biggest fears about those right now is with the amount of pressure that the government and upper Mgmt. at GM is under to turn out some company saving models, that they don't "cover up" some problems or issues that would be detrimental to production dates and expectations. It wouldn't be the first time. I'm not in any way saying that it is the case here, I'm just airing my opinion about GM.