Nakamichi Audio Vs. Standard Pioneer System

[Slvr99LS]

Hello all, first time post here and a recent buyer of a '99 Millenium Silver LS. I probably should've posed this question some time ago while I was actively searching for a car, but I am still curious.

Question I'm posing is regarding the factory audio systems which I haven't seen discussed very often on the forums. Being a life-long audiophile, music is very important to me, so I searched for ages to find the right car that specifically had the Nakamichi audio system based on favorable prior experiences years ago with my '92 LS. Unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to jump back and forth between two different cars equipped with the standard Pioneer Premium Sound and the Nakamichi both playing the same source material.

Does anyone outside of a Japanese engineer know the real specifics of how they differ? The head units look outwardly very similar and if I'm not mistaken, the interior has the same number of speakers regardless of which system it's equipped with. The Nak was a very expensive option when new which I'm sure plays a huge role in why it's so difficult to find a pre-owned vehicle that has it. If it weren't for my fixation on it, I would've likely bought a car long ago and saved plenty of aggravation and countless hours. From an overall standpoint, wondering how much is the 'psychological factor' with the Nakamichi, compared to what really exists. And no, I'm not one of the lunatic fringe who will spend $1200 on a power cord for my DVD player, then listen intently for the next 3 months attempting to convince myself that I hear a difference. :) Just someone with an appreciation for quality sound. With that said, any input is appreciated - thanks.

P.S. The car also has some odd vibrations and resonances at certain RPM and speed levels that I'm trying to track down. I've read it could be anything from tires to trans mounts. I'll tackle those in a future post after I've replaced a few of the simpler/less costly components and see what happens. These forums have been a great source of info so far!

[blake918]

I couldn't find too much info on the forums about this. I've always found the base Lexus stereos to be quite good for a factory setup, but take that with a grain of salt since I've never heard the Nak before!

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...amp;#entry36028

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...amp;mode=linear

If your tires are balanced, the transmission mount is a good, cheap ($40-$50, I think) place to start. I changed mine not knowing what to expect, but it killed a vibration I had that felt like an out of balance tire.

[ED.]

I think the only different on the inside was the Nak in gold writing and the Bass, Treble, et al., buttons being all round.

I am not sure if it's the smaller interior or the sound system but I think I would take the Nak in a LS over the hi-fi DSP in my BMW. The bass on the Nak is excellent and the music is very crisp. Again, it could all be room size. I've driven a 97 coach and I believe it was the standard system but I don't even remember having the radio on. I think it was raining the day I took it out so I was just listening to the car.

[1990LS400]

Something to consider when buying a 98-00 LS400 is that it is becoming difficult to get Nakamichi radios fixed if a problem occurs. Parts are becoming scarce. Nakamichi has been in and out of bankruptcy for years and the Nakamichi company that made Lexus audio systems is gone even if the Nakamichi name lives on with a reconstituted company that that is using the name.

The Nak in my 00 LS crapped out last year as the parts supply was drying up. The Florida company that fixed it told me that if another problem occurs, they would try to fix it but couldn't garantee they could get the needed parts.

As I've posted in previous threads, the architectures of the Nak and standard Pioneer audio systems in the 98-00 LS400 are very different. Even the wiring harnesses are different and the components are not interchangeable with the possible exception being the CD changer -- but the Nak CD changer has a different part number than the standard Pioneer CD changer.

The Nak system sound is very nice -- love the incredible base ... maybe it's from the extra 85 watts of rated power -- but, if I had a "do over", I would have looked for a 00 LS with the standard Pioneer system.

[SW03ES]

Kind of off topic, but your 99 LS is alpine silver probably, not millenium silver. ;)

[Slvr99LS]

Kind of off topic, but your 99 LS is alpine silver probably, not millenium silver. ;)

Hmmmm.... would kinda explain why the touch up paint stick from the local parts place didn't quite match. Couldn't find a color code on the car... assumed Lexus was celebrating the turn of the Millenium a bit early... but you know what happens generally when you assume. <_< btw, thanks for all the input regarding the Nak vs. Pioneer. I'll be posting a follow-up shortly regarding the vibration situation...

[1990LS400]

I'll be posting a follow-up shortly regarding the vibration situation...

If your car has more than about 70,000 miles on it and your tires are properly balanced, then worn front strut rod bushings are a likely cause of front end vibration at highway speeds.

Here is a thread where Blake918 showed a photo of them: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/lofiv...php/t27557.html

Here is an Australian website that discusses why the strut rod bushings (they call them "semi-longitudinal tension rods") wear out so quickly on a 98-00 LS400: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_3041/article.html

The front strut rod bushings on my 00 LS were thoroughly worn out by 80,000 miles causing a severe front end vibration above 60 mph. Replacing the strut rod assemblies completely eliminated the vibration.

[SW03ES]

Hmmmm.... would kinda explain why the touch up paint stick from the local parts place didn't quite match. Couldn't find a color code on the car... assumed Lexus was celebrating the turn of the Millenium a bit early... but you know what happens generally when you assume.

Yeah the Millenium silver was available on the 00 Platinum edition, and then on the LS430 until 2004, the alpine silver was available alongside it on the standard car in 2000. The alpine silver is much nicer.

[Slvr99LS]

I'll be posting a follow-up shortly regarding the vibration situation...

If your car has more than about 70,000 miles on it and your tires are properly balanced, then worn front strut rod bushings are a likely cause of front end vibration at highway speeds.

Here is a thread where Blake918 showed a photo of them: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/lofiv...php/t27557.html

Here is an Australian website that discusses why the strut rod bushings (they call them "semi-longitudinal tension rods") wear out so quickly on a 98-00 LS400: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_3041/article.html

The front strut rod bushings on my 00 LS were thoroughly worn out by 80,000 miles causing a severe front end vibration above 60 mph. Replacing the strut rod assemblies completely eliminated the vibration.

Appreciate this additional info. Fairly well convinced after all I've read that my car does need strut bar bushings, and possibly the upper control arms. Problem is, I can't seem to find the correct part number anywhere for JUST these bushings and the majority of online microfiche pictorials for whatever reason are incorrect. Looking at the front suspension pictorial, Park Place Lexus for example shows the strut bar... no problem there... but with 2 studs on one end, and a threaded end on the other. Not sure what's going on there, but obviously the bar has the mount studs on one end, and the large rubber bushing on the other. I'd like to replace just the bushing rather than the entire bar. The bar itself doesn't wear out, so why spend $100++ per side? I do have access to a press... or even a blowtorch if necessary to burn the old ones out as one forum member apparently did with his control arms (great idea by the way!). Perhaps some phone calls are in order, but if the parts jockey on the other end of the line is staring at the same incorrect diagram, that isn't going to be of much assistance. Has anyone on here replaced just the bushings on a 98-00 LS? As always, any input is greatly appreciated. Have a nagging feeling already that by the time I get this car to where I want it to be (which is simply riding/driving the way it should), seems I'll have intimate knowledge of every inch of it from bumper to bumper.

[blake918]

Appreciate this additional info. Fairly well convinced after all I've read that my car does need strut bar bushings, and possibly the upper control arms. Problem is, I can't seem to find the correct part number anywhere for JUST these bushings and the majority of online microfiche pictorials for whatever reason are incorrect. Looking at the front suspension pictorial, Park Place Lexus for example shows the strut bar... no problem there... but with 2 studs on one end, and a threaded end on the other. Not sure what's going on there, but obviously the bar has the mount studs on one end, and the large rubber bushing on the other. I'd like to replace just the bushing rather than the entire bar. The bar itself doesn't wear out, so why spend $100++ per side? I do have access to a press... or even a blowtorch if necessary to burn the old ones out as one forum member apparently did with his control arms (great idea by the way!). Perhaps some phone calls are in order, but if the parts jockey on the other end of the line is staring at the same incorrect diagram, that isn't going to be of much assistance. Has anyone on here replaced just the bushings on a 98-00 LS? As always, any input is greatly appreciated. Have a nagging feeling already that by the time I get this car to where I want it to be (which is simply riding/driving the way it should), seems I'll have intimate knowledge of every inch of it from bumper to bumper.

I changed just the strut rod bushings on my '99. You will need to press out the bushings with a big press; I can't remember if we used a 15 or 30 ton. It looks like Park Place is selling the bushings for about $40 a piece vs $115 each for the whole arm. Here's the part number:

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1999_LEXU...2.html?hl=48674

[rhkwon]

Stupid question but I assume to tell the difference, on the Nakamichi it would say "Nakamichi" on the stereo? Can someone post a pic?

[Slvr99LS]

Appreciate this additional info. Fairly well convinced after all I've read that my car does need strut bar bushings, and possibly the upper control arms. Problem is, I can't seem to find the correct part number anywhere for JUST these bushings and the majority of online microfiche pictorials for whatever reason are incorrect. Looking at the front suspension pictorial, Park Place Lexus for example shows the strut bar... no problem there... but with 2 studs on one end, and a threaded end on the other. Not sure what's going on there, but obviously the bar has the mount studs on one end, and the large rubber bushing on the other. I'd like to replace just the bushing rather than the entire bar. The bar itself doesn't wear out, so why spend $100++ per side? I do have access to a press... or even a blowtorch if necessary to burn the old ones out as one forum member apparently did with his control arms (great idea by the way!). Perhaps some phone calls are in order, but if the parts jockey on the other end of the line is staring at the same incorrect diagram, that isn't going to be of much assistance. Has anyone on here replaced just the bushings on a 98-00 LS? As always, any input is greatly appreciated. Have a nagging feeling already that by the time I get this car to where I want it to be (which is simply riding/driving the way it should), seems I'll have intimate knowledge of every inch of it from bumper to bumper.

I changed just the strut rod bushings on my '99. You will need to press out the bushings with a big press; I can't remember if we used a 15 or 30 ton. It looks like Park Place is selling the bushings for about $40 a piece vs $115 each for the whole arm. Here's the part number:

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1999_LEXU...2.html?hl=48674

Blake, now that's some interesting info you've got there... which unfortunately now conflicts with what I thought I was ordering! I did read your post from some time ago on here which included photos (always appreciated) of the strut rods removed from your car, and that post is where I got the part number from. There was definitely some confusion/disagreement on what part number fit what. Talk about in the nick of time - I was literally set to order those bushings tomorrow morning... or what I thought were those bushings, except I was given part #48674-40051, and even called Sewell Lexus on Monday to confirm it. Their online microfiche only shows the first 5 digits of the part. Some gal in parts answered whose name I unfortunately didn't catch. Now, the question becomes... which is the correct one, and which isn't. Did you happen to have kept your parts invoice around for confirmation? The number doesn't seem to have superceded. Looks like I have some additional homework to do tonight. Nothing worse than placing an order, waiting days for your parts with great anticipation... and then... they don't fit. Incidentally, what's the mileage on your '99? And once you changed the bushings did it make a significant overall difference? Thanks again - appreciate the helpful info.

[blake918]

Blake, now that's some interesting info you've got there... which unfortunately now conflicts with what I thought I was ordering! I did read your post from some time ago on here which included photos (always appreciated) of the strut rods removed from your car, and that post is where I got the part number from. There was definitely some confusion/disagreement on what part number fit what. Talk about in the nick of time - I was literally set to order those bushings tomorrow morning... or what I thought were those bushings, except I was given part #48674-40051, and even called Sewell Lexus on Monday to confirm it. Their online microfiche only shows the first 5 digits of the part. Some gal in parts answered whose name I unfortunately didn't catch. Now, the question becomes... which is the correct one, and which isn't. Did you happen to have kept your parts invoice around for confirmation? The number doesn't seem to have superceded. Looks like I have some additional homework to do tonight. Nothing worse than placing an order, waiting days for your parts with great anticipation... and then... they don't fit. Incidentally, what's the mileage on your '99? And once you changed the bushings did it make a significant overall difference? Thanks again - appreciate the helpful info.

The part number you posted is correct. When I ran the part number that I found in the link with Park Place, it said that it had been superseded with: 48674-40051. Any time you search by part number on most of the Lexus dealer websites, they will tell you if it has been superseded. I checked through my receipts, but I couldn't find this particular one. Right now, I'm at 182k and some change, but I think I was at 175k or so when I changed these bushings. My strut rods were not making any noise, but I wanted to change them to rule them out in my search for a bizarre suspension noise coming from the front end. After changing the strut rods, the noise was still there, but the car tracked much, much better. I thought it tracked fine before, but after the new bushings, it nearly drives itself down the highway! B)

Here's what the old strut rods from my '99 looked like. They were obviously worn, but I've seen worse...

Stupid question but I assume to tell the difference, on the Nakamichi it would say "Nakamichi" on the stereo? Can someone post a pic?

Here ya go....

[Slvr99LS]

Blake - Thanks for replying so quickly. Now that you've confirmed that, I'll go ahead and order up the bushings (among other things). Curious, were you ever able to track down what was causing the noise in your suspension? I suppose if nothing else, I can hopefully look forward to better tracking on the highway which could definitely make for a less fatiguing drive, particularly on long trips. As it stands now, the car does require a lot of small corrections in the steering at higher speeds. Call it a hunch, but I suspect my bushings are going to look far worse than yours did. Best case scenario would be that they do for the suspension what the transmission mount did for the driveline, which was a revelation.... and worse case would be feeling no change whatsoever. If it falls somewhere in between the two extremes, that's fine too. It's a chance I'm willing to take. Next step is the control arms.

And here I thought after all I'd read that buying another Lexus would assure more time driving and less time wrenching. So far, my seat time is roughly equal to creeper time laying underneath the thing. I partially blame my OCD. With that said... could've easily avoided all this hassle by just signing on the dotted line for $1,300 a month for 6 years and got a shiny new LS-460. Levinson sound... 8-speed automatic... nearly 400HP... ventilated seats... ahhhhhh, and I'm thinking that really deep red metallic they have this year is looking particularly sweet. Or I could just come back to planet earth, shut up and get back to work changing strut bar bushings, gear oil, transmission mount, engine oil, sway bar bushings, air filter, power steering fluid, tires, brake pads, rotors, wiper blades, cabin filter, transmission fluid, spark plugs, coolant, fuel filter... ahhhh I gotta stop - I'm depressing myself... and Visa just sent me a 'Thank You' notice and a fresh new card to melt. How thoughtful of them. B) Will post more pics once the next box of fun arrives and I can find the time to get it all installed.

[Slvr99LS]

Stupid question but I assume to tell the difference, on the Nakamichi it would say "Nakamichi" on the stereo? Can someone post a pic?

Since starting this original thread regarding "Nakamichi vs. Pioneer" systems, I'll admit to having gotten a little off topic here, but as a recent LS buyer there's just so much to talk about with these cars, it's tough not to get carried away. Not sure if it would be worthwhile trying to determine what percentage of forum members cars are equipped with the Nak system, but I do know out of the literally hundreds of cars I viewed both in person and online over a period of a few months, for what it's worth I'd guesstimate only 5 to 8% of the vehicles I found had it, maybe less. By far the majority were base model cars with a sunroof. Actually never found one that didn't have the sunroof. Navigation is a pretty easy option to find on pre-owned '99 and 2000 model cars, but I honestly didn't want the nav in this instance. Unfortunately you couldn't buy a car from that era with both the nav AND the Nakamichi. As far as options went, it was one.... or the other. Starting with the LS430 in 2001 apparently you could order the awesome Mark Levinson system (which I haven't personally heard yet, but really want to) together with navigation. I'm partial toward the styling of the '98 to '00 cars though, so I decided early on in the process of finding a car that having the upgraded sound system was of higher priority to me than a 10-year old navigation system. The technology has come so far along (integrated Bluetooth, 3-D mapping, real-time traffic, continually updated maps, etc.) and the prices of stand-alone navigation units have come down so far that the Nakamichi got the nod instead. So far so good. It's like a high-speed concert hall on wheels. Sometimes I even save some precious 93-octane and just sit inside listening to CD's with the engine off. When it is time to burn some dead-dinosaurs, turns out the best part of all is, it's even loud enough to overcome the sound of the suspension falling apart. Money well spent. :D