Thinking About Buying An 04-06 Ls430...

[SW03ES]

Well in light of my recent electrical gremlins and the fact that I'm getting up towards 120k miles, I'm thinking about moving on to something else...

Thinking about a new ES350 or GS350...I just can't help but be pulled towards an 04-06 LS430 instead. I've never bought a used car, but I know full well how great these cars are and how little 30-40k miles really is. It would still be a big mental block for me to get around...

Anyways, whats everybody think? The 05's look like the sweet spot since they're just coming off 3 year leases. It looks to me like they're doable for under $30k with 25k-35k miles, which is just an incredible value. The 04s seem to be about the same price, and the 06's seem to be $35k-39k.

Nav is a must, I'd like the UL package since I haul clients around in the back but I'm a little concerned about the air suspension's longevity.

Rockville has an 05 with 35k miles and the modern luxury package (nav and SKS) I'm going to look at next week. Carmax has an 05 UL with 28k miles for $33k. It has a tan interior though which isn't the greatest, I'd want black or grey.

I like to lease for business, and leasing pre-owned doesn't work, I'd probably just buy the thing outright and plan to keep it for a long time...

Just kicking it around...

[pauljcl]

Well in light of my recent electrical gremlins and the fact that I'm getting up towards 120k miles, I'm thinking about moving on to something else...

Thinking about a new ES350 or GS350...I just can't help but be pulled towards an 04-06 LS430 instead. I've never bought a used car, but I know full well how great these cars are and how little 30-40k miles really is. It would still be a big mental block for me to get around...

Anyways, whats everybody think? The 05's look like the sweet spot since they're just coming off 3 year leases. It looks to me like they're doable for under $30k with 25k-35k miles, which is just an incredible value. The 04s seem to be about the same price, and the 06's seem to be $35k-39k.

Nav is a must, I'd like the UL package since I haul clients around in the back but I'm a little concerned about the air suspension's longevity.

Rockville has an 05 with 35k miles and the modern luxury package (nav and SKS) I'm going to look at next week. Carmax has an 05 UL with 28k miles for $33k. It has a tan interior though which isn't the greatest, I'd want black or grey.

I like to lease for business, and leasing pre-owned doesn't work, I'd probably just buy the thing outright and plan to keep it for a long time...

Just kicking it around...

Steve:

If you can actually find a nice '06 for less than $30K, with no more than 35K miles, you've got to go for it. Tan interior is OK, preferable to grey or black here in FL. -- I've found Carmax expensive. == Congrats!

[Carmelsteve]

Go for it-you won't be sorry. As I've said in other posts, the 05 LS's coming off lease now are the deal of the century. You get a $70-80K car at way less than half price that's the most dependable car ever tested by Consumer reports and many say is the finest production vehicle made. Also, with the possible exception of the few cars that come with free maintenance, the Lexus vehicles are the best maintained out there. I've been very happy with mine. Just make sure to shop around and don't settle for something just to get it. There are so many LS's out there now, there's no reason to not get exactly what you want.

Steve

[TA in KC]

I like to lease for business, and leasing pre-owned doesn't work, I'd probably just buy the thing outright and plan to keep it for a long time...

What you said sounds like a good idea Steve. Lexus LS cars certainly do age very gracefully...and keeping any reliable car for a long time is one of the best financial decisions you can make. By purchasing one that is 2-3 years old, you won't get smacked nearly as hard with depreciation. Keep us up-to-date if you end up finding one.

[2007GS450H]

Well in light of my recent electrical gremlins and the fact that I'm getting up towards 120k miles, I'm thinking about moving on to something else...

Thinking about a new ES350 or GS350...I just can't help but be pulled towards an 04-06 LS430 instead. I've never bought a used car, but I know full well how great these cars are and how little 30-40k miles really is. It would still be a big mental block for me to get around...

Anyways, whats everybody think? The 05's look like the sweet spot since they're just coming off 3 year leases. It looks to me like they're doable for under $30k with 25k-35k miles, which is just an incredible value. The 04s seem to be about the same price, and the 06's seem to be $35k-39k.

Nav is a must, I'd like the UL package since I haul clients around in the back but I'm a little concerned about the air suspension's longevity.

Rockville has an 05 with 35k miles and the modern luxury package (nav and SKS) I'm going to look at next week. Carmax has an 05 UL with 28k miles for $33k. It has a tan interior though which isn't the greatest, I'd want black or grey.

I like to lease for business, and leasing pre-owned doesn't work, I'd probably just buy the thing outright and plan to keep it for a long time...

Just kicking it around...

The ES350 Is a huge downgrade. That dash is so......... LOL

I would look at a Used LS430..

[SW03ES]

Yeah I'm really going to take my time with it and find the right car, no rush. I don't think I'm going to be able to find an '06 under 30k, but I really think an '05 is doable for less than that and as we get into next spring 06s will start coming off lease too. No real change between 05 and 06, if you're doing the UL car its rare to find an 05 that has the radar cruise as opposed to the older laser cruise, all of the 06s have the radar cruise.

Yeah I've tried but I can't get to like the ES350's interior...

So if I could get into something for 28-30k (a new UL ES350 MSRPs for $44k and I could probably get one for $40k. Mines worth like 10-11k, so I'd be out of pocket $18k and drive off with a like new LS430...pretty good deal.

[Will B.]

You can always go CPO for around $30k on a 2004 or 2005. I've never done CPO before on a vehicle, but Lexus' CPO was good enough to sell me - it's basically the same as a new warranty for the full term, with a few exceptions for interior pieces (i.e. squeaks and rattles). Also, don't write off leasing used vehicles just yet - most dealerships have banks that will do it.

[1990LS400]

The 05's look like the sweet spot since they're just coming off 3 year leases.

Whoa Steve, watch that math! It is the 06's that will start coming off three year leases this fall. The 06's were first leased in fall 2005 and those leases will be expiring in fall, 2008. It should be easy to find an 06 LS with mileage under the common mileage cap for a three year lease -- 36,000 miles.

I'd like the UL package since I haul clients around in the back but I'm a little concerned about the air suspension's longevity.

That's a tough one. Do you want your customers to focus on your car and playing with the rear seat controls or listening to your presentation?

What do the other agents in your area drive while showing real estate to clients? What does your average client drive? What segment of the real estate market is your focus? A rule of thumb around here is that one doesn't drive a car much different or nicer than what the average client drives - whether selling real estate or anything else. The agents we've used for several transactions drive identical full size Buicks but their target market isn't the $5-$20M home market in Mission Hills, Kansas either. I suspect that the agents we use wouldn't even consider driving a foreign car - they seem to be very careful in how they cultivate their image.

I suggest that you discuss this question with experienced agents that have been around the industry in your area a long time.

It sure is amazing how much the used car market has softened in the five years since I bought my 2000 LS400 in 2003 after it came off a 3 yr/36K mile lease.

[SW03ES]

You can always go CPO for around $30k on a 2004 or 2005. I've never done CPO before on a vehicle, but Lexus' CPO was good enough to sell me - it's basically the same as a new warranty for the full term, with a few exceptions for interior pieces (i.e. squeaks and rattles). Also, don't write off leasing used vehicles just yet - most dealerships have banks that will do it.

I'm not sold on CPO. As long as the car in under the 50k original warranty you can purchase a platinum Lexus 100k warranty for $1500 or so, from my looking around it looks like the CPO cars demand a $5k-7K premium. Lexus does have attractive CPO financing. The CPO warranty in non-transferable but the Lexus Platinum warranty is.

And yes, dealers can lease used cars but the payments wind up being such that you could almost lease a new one, at least in my experience.

Whoa Steve, watch that math! It is the 06's that will start coming off three year leases this fall. The 06's were first leased in fall 2005 and those leases will be expiring in fall, 2008. It should be easy to find an 06 LS with mileage under the common mileage cap for a three year lease -- 36,000 miles.

My math is fine ;)

The current crop of '05s are off 3 year leases, if you look around on dealer lots and even eBay you see mostly '05s, as we get into the fall we'll start to see more '06s, but if you were buying right now the '05 would be the deal.

That's a tough one. Do you want your customers to focus on your car and playing with the rear seat controls or listening to your presentation?

I don't really present to people in the car, once they're in the car they're already all set up. In fact...I really don't even carry people around in the car all that often. I mostly list properties and when I do have buyers we typically wind up meeting at properties instead of me driving them there.

Really and truly for business here the LS is the perfect car. Lots of successful people and many many agents drive Lexus vehicles.

In my experience clients don't really care what you drive...

[Will B.]

I'm not sold on CPO. As long as the car in under the 50k original warranty you can purchase a platinum Lexus 100k warranty for $1500 or so, from my looking around it looks like the CPO cars demand a $5k-7K premium. Lexus does have attractive CPO financing. The CPO warranty in non-transferable but the Lexus Platinum warranty is.

You negotiate for a living - I'm sure you can haggle them down :) I got my CPO '04 for a little under Carmax prices six months ago. If I found a good one that was non-CPO when I was looking, I definitely would have jumped on it for $1-2k savings, but there wasn't one at the time. My guess was that CPO warranty costs the dealership $700-800 and I haggled accordingly (the Infiniti dealership said they can CPO any car on their lot for $800, Honda told me $650). The non-transferrable part is a bummer though and I didn't find that out until after I had owned the car a couple months.

You are right though - you can't really go wrong if the car is well maintained.

[SW03ES]

I have to do some research about negotiating on used cars though, never done it. New cars are easy because I know how the profit works, profit on a used car is variable because you never know what the dealer paid for the car, whether they've repainted bumpers, etc. I like the CPOs because the dealers really clean them up and they're almost like new cars. But, I can do that myself too, if I save $5-7k even repainting bumpers isn't a big deal.

I'm hoping I'll have time to go drive those '05s at Lexus and Carmax tomorrow...

[SW03ES]

Went by and drove one of the '05s today. Very nice. Every time I drive an LS I'm reminded why I love these cars...and just how far superior the LS is to other models in the Lexus line. The ES still rides and drives like a dream...but its nothing like the LS. Something about the heft and the feeling that the car is shaped from one peice of metal.

When you get back in the ES, you don't really miss the LS because the ES is a really nice car too...but the LS is really a special car to drive. Definately my next car...

Now all we have to do is find the right one. Like I said I'm really going to take my time and find the right car, I plan to drive this car a long time...

Here's the car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks...d=p4506.c0.m245

It has the Custom Luxury package, so it has the special wood, the semi-analine leather, the leather door panels and dash, the suede headliner but it doesn't have the rear seat controls or power rear seat nor does it have the air suspension. I've decided I would like the UL car if I can find one.

$37k is way out of line, but the car is in very good shape.

This car has all the goodies but its in CA. I could never buy a car sight unseen...at least not a $30,000 car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks...d=p4506.c0.m245

[W6RU]

FWIW ...

I just purchased a CPO 05 Modern Luxury LS430 with 35,500 miles for $ 29,988.00 in Los Angeles area. This car was discounted from 39K to get it off the lot. In looking for this car several salesmen told me the market for these cars is very soft because people that are buying 30K cars don't want a V8, they want 30+ MPG cars. In my opinion this car that gets 24 MPG on the highway is a small trade off for the superb ride and comforts it offers.

[SW03ES]

Oh absolutely. In fact, the LS gets better mileage than my V6 ES, I think its because the ES is underpowered for its weight, and the 04+ LS has the 6th gear. I bet it would actually get 1-2 MPG more than the ES on the highway.

Thats a great deal. CA is more competitive than other areas too because there are a lot of dealers.

How hard was it to get them down to that price?

[opie]

If it's any consolation, I feel comfortable enough with Lexus quality to buy a low mileage 01 LS430 with the Ultra Pkg. I spent half an hour with my local dealer's service department discussing possible areas of concern.

I put down my deposit a few hours ago.

[nc211]

Steve, if you get the LS "finally", what I am going to do in regards of chanting the G35 kicks the ES330's butt? Man, it's bad enough the market's in the can, my kid has figured out when to pee "when changing diaper, on dad", and my hair is falling out, now you're gonna go do something like this to me? I guess I better get up there soon, get you really good and drunk, and talk you into a Ford Taurus or something like that! Actually, just last week, I was in your neighborhood for the day. I could not get the blackberry to connect to the internet to contact you, or check my address book, but I was right there in Bethesda. Was checking on our two projects on Rockville Pike "actually 3 projects but one is about done". I mistakenly had the navigation unit set to "shortest distance" instead of "fastest time" back to Reagan airport, so I took a nice tour all the way down Rockville Pike to the airport. Took an hour, but man, are the honey's out in DC or what! Every street corner: bombshell babes....everywhere! I was thinking how funny it would be if I could find your office address, see your car in the parking lot, sneak up to it when nobody was looking and snap a picture of me licking the windshield, then post it on here later! Hahaha!!

Anyway, regarding the Carmax route. I'm sure you'll do your homework, but one thing I've noticed down here with our Carmax store, is nearly all the cars are from up north, and sometimes when you look under them, you can easily tell what the roadsalt has done. Just becareful with them. Also, ours down here won't negotiate on price. It's either take or leave it type shop here. Ours also tries to clean your clock on trade value.

If you could get one from a Lexus dealership, think you could negotiate an extended bumper-to-bumper warranty with the price? Granted, we all know how tough the LS is, but we also know how damn expensive they can be to fix. I'm always a little weary of a used car with under 40k miles, especially a LS, becuase they are so perfect. Kind of makes you wonder why the owner got rid of it? But, like me and mine, sometimes you just need a different type of car.

In regards to W6RU's comments about the perceived negativety of the V8 in this market. I kicked some tires recently with trading our 07' Mazda 3 GT for a 05' Lexus ES330. The salesman immediately went into "kill the trade value" mode from the start. I told him "if you think that value is correct, then one of us isn't paying attention to the market. Since I've got the keys, which one of us do you think it is?" He laughed, but was clearly ticked "as was I at a $13k trade offer". Well, just last week, he called me at the office to tell me they just gave $17.5K trade value on a 07 Mazda 3 S', which has about half the options ours does. He said, and I quote, "management will bend over backwards to get all non-4cylinder engines off our lot" and said I could pretty much rest assured that they'd offer me around $19k for the Mazda. That's NUTS! I'm almost tempted to do it. Bet everytime I think I'm serious, I get a day with cooler temps which allows me to drop the windows and turn off the a/c, and race around like a teenager, which keeps me from wanting to trade it.

[SW03ES]

LOL!

One of these times you need to actually call me when you're here ;)

Yeah I'm not wild about Carmax. I went and looked at an '04 and the rear had been repainted, it was obvious because whoever did it had masked off the emblems and then painted instead of removing and re-installing them, so you could clearly see a paint line around the emblems.

As for mileage, I'm not concerned about it. So many of these cars are leased, and leased with like 12k miles per year, so you see a lot of them with 35-36k miles.

You should do the swap, wanna buy mine? ;)

[LEXIRX330]

Well my RX...was a CPO. If I was to do it all over I don't think I would look for a CPO, just find a good clean with under the 50k, as you said. I have been more than happy with the "new" used car, The wife's benz is a lease and as far as I am concearned if we owned it or it was financed I would trade it off now. Fun car but it is to small for me, and since we have had the little one I have been driving it the most. I have been riding my Harley back and forth to work anyway...on nice days. I think I am going to look at another suv around this time next year when the lease is up...not sure what yet to far from now.

OK...back on topic. I would stay far away from carmax. Have heard to many bad things from people that get their cars, I would call whatever dealership that you use...tell them what you want and tell them to call you when something comes in off trade. My RX never hit the lot...just came in off trade, did the whole deal before the car ever even got cleaned up for the lot. Worked out great for me.

[W6RU]

Oh absolutely. In fact, the LS gets better mileage than my V6 ES, I think its because the ES is underpowered for its weight, and the 04+ LS has the 6th gear. I bet it would actually get 1-2 MPG more than the ES on the highway.

Thats a great deal. CA is more competitive than other areas too because there are a lot of dealers.

How hard was it to get them down to that price?

That was their advertised "internet" price!

[SW03ES]

Cool, thanks guys, I'll keep you posted!

[jainla]

I can say the LS is the only car in this class I would consider buying used; in fact I started out thinking I would be buying an S430 or S500 and ended up with the LS 430. It's probably the best car for the money; new or used. If you could pull a clean carfax and a good service history the LS is probably the only car I would consider buying sight unseen.

It will be 3 years I've had it next month and I've had absolutely no problems (save the 3 I knew about buying the car) save for the fact that all the bulbs in the tail lights seem to be burning out (lost another one last week). I should just bite the bullet and replace all of them and get it over with. I must admit the UL features in the back are a great conversation piece...."your car has a fridge? really?" And you also become the defacto chauffeur, so beware.

Keep looking; it took me about 3 months to find mine. They're out there.

Cool, thanks guys, I'll keep you posted!