Gs450h Winter And Snow Driving

[pierrek]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

[silvercorvette]

You need to do more research, the RX400H has 4 wheel drive as an option. They are hard to get in TX where I own a house but most cars on the dealers lot in NY where I had my other house [and the northern part of the USA] had 4 wheel drive [i assume it that they would also have them in Canada]. I never got into the deep stuff because I spent the past two winters in TX and SC. Last Christmas when I drove back it handled the snow well but to be honest I think I could had done just as well with 2 wheel drive. From what I have heard from Lexus owners that had been in the deep stuff the 4 wheel / all wheel drive works well. Don't put all your faith in 4 wheel drive, 80 to 90 % of driving in snow depends on driver skill. If you are good a skilled driver with 2 wheel drive you will do better than a unskilled driver with 4 wheel drive. I am now retired but when I was a cop there were many times I was able to hop into the drivers seat of someone that was hopelessly stuck and get them un-stuck by just using proper technique.

[RX400h]

I agree with the silver one,

The tires and driver make the most difference, although having 4-wheel drive really helps when traversing steep hills. (I drove in Connecticut for more than 11 years.)

[wwest]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system.

So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC.

I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions.

Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times.

*** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall.

[silvercorvette]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system.

So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC.

I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions.

Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times.

*** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall.

You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one, you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology” in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so. Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so. I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow.

[LauraW]

The tires and driver make the most difference, although having 4-wheel drive really helps when traversing steep hills. (I drove in Connecticut for more than 11 years.)

Agreed. In my old Toyota 4Runner that I just replaced with a 400h, the 4WD was great for accelerating on snow, for plowing through small drifts, and for reducing the small amount of sliding around that vehicles sometimes do on washboarded gravel roads. (I haven't tried the 400h in any of those conditions yet.)

The one thing that 4WD and AWD can't help you with is momentum. If you're going fast on snow or ice and try a sudden stop or turn, you're going to get an unpleasant surprise, AWD or not. Driving back into CA over Donner Pass at the start of last January's big storm I saw plenty of 4WD cars spun out to the side of the road even at the gentle curves that come after a good downhill stretch. CalTrans was actually running pace cars to slow down all the drivers who thought their 4WD made them invulnerable.

My rules for driving in snow are to keep it slow, don't try to do anything sudden, and don't try to do two things at once.

[Gryphon]

Shaking my head side to side in amazement, I am

Tom :(

[silvercorvette]

I have spent many winters driving in NY's winter snow, but winter 2006-2007 I spent most of my winter in my TX house, and winter 2007-2008 I sold the TX and NY house and spent almost the entire winter in SC. I was really shocked to see how people in warm ares handle snow. I am not putting down southern drivers in any way because you can't really blame them because they don't get the chance to hone their skills by practicing. But People where I now live go into a panic over a 1/8 to 1/4 inch of snow, TV and radio stations interrupt shows to issue warnings schools and factories close, but that small amount isn't even worth talking about where I come from.

However I don't take even small amounts of snow lightly because as Lauraw pointed out some people with 4 wheel drive haven't learned a simple fact, 4 wheel drive will not help you stop faster and if you take a corner too fast you will spin out of control. And even if you are a skilled snow driver it won't do you a bit of good if someone spins out of control and slides into you.

I may seem like I am contridicting myself but in some casses I think that small amounts of snow are sometimes more dangerous than the deep stuff.

The deep stuff slows people down, but with a 1/4 inch of snow people tend to drive as fast as they would on dry roads and that will get people into trouble fast.

If you don't pratice you will loose your snow skills during the summer so my advice is to find a nice big empty parking lot the first snow fall of the winter and spend time putting your car into a skid and getting it out.

[ljbad4life]

i am also very intersted in this as well, since I will be picking up a 450h at the end of the summer. anyone actually have a 450h and experienced snow? chime in; would be a great help.

[s10]

I have spent many winters driving in NY's winter snow, but winter 2006-2007 I spent most of my winter in my TX house, and winter 2007-2008 I sold the TX and NY house and spent almost the entire winter in SC. I was really shocked to see how people in warm ares handle snow. I am not putting down southern drivers in any way because you can't really blame them because they don't get the chance to hone their skills by practicing. But People where I now live go into a panic over a 1/8 to 1/4 inch of snow, TV and radio stations interrupt shows to issue warnings schools and factories close, but that small amount isn't even worth talking about where I come from.

However I don't take even small amounts of snow lightly because as Lauraw pointed out some people with 4 wheel drive haven't learned a simple fact, 4 wheel drive will not help you stop faster and if you take a corner too fast you will spin out of control. And even if you are a skilled snow driver it won't do you a bit of good if someone spins out of control and slides into you.

I may seem like I am contridicting myself but in some casses I think that small amounts of snow are sometimes more dangerous than the deep stuff.

The deep stuff slows people down, but with a 1/4 inch of snow people tend to drive as fast as they would on dry roads and that will get people into trouble fast.

If you don't pratice you will loose your snow skills during the summer so my advice is to find a nice big empty parking lot the first snow fall of the winter and spend time putting your car into a skid and getting it out.

Completely agree with you. Deep snow is not as dangerous as a little here and there, also because you might end up with one side on a stable dry road, and the other side in slippery stuff, causing the unpredictable.

The RX is a heavy car, a big handicap when driving on slippery roads, especially once you are spinning out of control.

The best advise on snow is always slow down (a lot) and don't make any sudden movements (stop, accelerating, turns).

[drbrog]

i am also very intersted in this as well, since I will be picking up a 450h at the end of the summer. anyone actually have a 450h and experienced snow? chime in; would be a great help.

I am picking up a 450h at the end of next week so I don't have any experience with it in the snow. I have driven a LS 430 for four winters in Chicago. I was pleasantly surprised how well it handled in the snow. I suspect that the 450h, with extra weight over the rear axle and decent all season or snow tires, should perform similarly. I agree with the others above that the tires are key.

Enjoy your 450h!

[silvercorvette]

I apologize for my lapse in reading skills, I thought I read RX instead of GS, but I still stand by my statement about driving skills in snow being important maybe more important than 4 wheel drive. The GS450H does have a snow switch but I don't know how much it will help. I suggest that you stay home if there is a big storm or leave work early when it snows before it gets bad. Because your ability to move depends on the car in front of you and every car in front of him. Many 4 wheel drive cars have been stuck in snow that would normally not be a problem because the car(s) in front of them got stuck and there was no way to get around them.

[wwest0]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system.

So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC.

I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions.

Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times.

*** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall.

You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one,

Oh, but I do own, and have driven a hybrid, a 2003 Prius.

you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology”

How about I justt equate the RXh & HH, and especially the GS450h and LS600H, as having a gas-guzzling SUPERCHARGED engine without the public, nor your insurance company, being aware of same...??p

in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so.

Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so.

So, in a strange way you're saying that reading up on and comprehending what one reads, researching, a given vehicle, of vehicle type, is useless. In other words one should just go out and plunk down $40,000, 60,000 or $100,000 for a new car since previous knowledge gained from even a small amount of research, let alone a LOT of effort, is WORTHLESS.

I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow.

[wwest0]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system.

So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC.

I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions.

Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times.

*** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall.

You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one,

Oh, but I do own, and have driven a hybrid, a 2003 Prius.

you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology”

How about I justt equate the RXh & HH, and especially the GS450h and LS600H, as having a gas-guzzling SUPERCHARGED engine without the public, nor your insurance company, being aware of same...??p

in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so.

Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so.

So, in a strange way you're saying that reading up on and comprehending what one reads, researching, a given vehicle, of vehicle type, is useless. In other words one should just go out and plunk down $40,000, 60,000 or $100,000 for a new car since previous knowledge gained from even a small amount of research, let alone a LOT of effort, is WORTHLESS.

I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow.

I owned a 2000 GS300 for about a year, enough wintertime driving to know that even with the engine/transmission in "snow" mode the RWD aspects of my GS300 made it a bit squirrelly, controllable but...., even with winter tires, on the slippery stuff.

We all know, at least I hope most of us do, that these electric motors in our hybrids provide a stellar level of TORQUE at initial startup, start-off, or any any low speed. That's why the Atkinson cycle engine, HIGHLY FE, but inordinantely low end torque, is such a PERFECT made for the HSD concept. So, for most of us, we don't have to actually own a GS450h or LS600h (RWD both), in order to KNOW how squirrelly they will be on the slippery stuff absent a serious, REALLY SERIOUS, level of "dethrottling" of the electrics when driving on the slippery stuff.

Automatic TC, Traction Control, inclusive of engine dethrottling, is already being widely acknowledged as a JOKE, even Toyota is now providing a method for turning it off so the driver can have the needed/required control of the throttle.

[wwest0]

I am considering a GS450h but a little concerned about winter driving in the snow (Montreal, Canada) since the GS450 h is a RWD with a lot of power , by law it’s mandatory to have 4 snow tires installed on the vehicle for the winter period , is it enough to be able to maneuver in the snow with the help of VDIM and the Snow Mode switch?

Thanks

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system.

So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC.

I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform.

So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions.

Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times.

*** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall.

You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one, you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology” in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so. Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so. I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow.

Did you miss the part where I recommended, for wintertime driving conditions, the F/AWD version of the RX400h instead of the RWD GS450h...???

[ljbad4life]

Does anyone expect any changes for the 450h in 09? I'm currently sitting on a deal for a 2007 left over 450h that was a showroom demo for 46,000. trying to push it lower with the arrival of the 09 models in the fall. sorry for the thread jack.

[lucasb7]

this is a quote from a post on CL a while ago. Think of the gs430 as the 450h because it has VDIM

"It started snowing here in DC early this morning but really didn't start to stick until this evening. I thought this would be an opportunity to test out The AWD GS300 and the GS430 with VDIM and see how they fared. We have about 5 inches on the ground now and the streets are slick. Here goes....

I pushed the start button on our Matador Red AWD with Mark Lev. etc. Our back lot which slopes away was mostly empty except for a few service cars. I drove the GS300 slowly in circles until I felt where the traction started to break. The 17" all season run flats had good pull up the hill when going straight. It was very responsive to the throttle. When I took a u turn the rear would swing out like a RWD car. At low speeds the VSC didn't really kick in. After getting a feel for it I drove out on the road and as long as I didn't make a sudden throttle change or hard turn it was very stable. It had a little oversteer drift but it was totally manageable. When I got on it and took a turn the VSC would kick in to bring me back in line but in a fairly wide arc. I was trying to test the limits which a normal driver might not do in the snow....

I dusted the snow off our Black GS430 with 18" runflat all seasons. We have these orange foam squeegee things on broom handles that are made for removing snow. I took it to the back lot and tried the same circles that I had just made tracks with the AWD. I found that I actually had much more control in the turns than the AWD! It would automatically slow me down so I coudn't over accelerate. I tried a few straight up the hill runs. It proceeded slowly up the hill with no wheelspin. I had it floored but it wouldn't listen to my bad advice. Then I took it out on the street. It stayed under control when I pulled out and I forgot for a second that I was in the RWD. I accelerated up the Rockville Pike and the only thing I noticed was the VDIM amber light blinking. I felt the slightest waiver but that was it. I was cruising on the crust with abandon. VDIM is the bomb! I could get used to this and I'm glad my GS owners will not get into trouble with the steering in the snow. The car was unshakable and if I took a turn a little too fast it just started chiming and corrected itself. The arc was smaller and straighter. The only thing it couldn't do as well as the AWD was going straight up hill. The AWD had faster acceleration for this reason. Now if I only had a set of studded tires I think I could take the AWD on. I am definitely a believer now... In VDIM we trust."

[silvercorvette]

I went to the dealer a few days ago to get my DRLs turned of, and I opened the trunk of a GS non-hybrid. #1 I was shocked how much bigger the trunk was. #2 If the battery takes up that much space there must be a heck of a lot of weight back there. Putting weight over the rear of a RWD car has always been a good way to help driving in the snow.

[ljbad4life]

this is a quote from a post on CL a while ago. Think of the gs430 as the 450h because it has VDIM

"It started snowing here in DC early this morning but really didn't start to stick until this evening. I thought this would be an opportunity to test out The AWD GS300 and the GS430 with VDIM and see how they fared. We have about 5 inches on the ground now and the streets are slick. Here goes....

I pushed the start button on our Matador Red AWD with Mark Lev. etc. Our back lot which slopes away was mostly empty except for a few service cars. I drove the GS300 slowly in circles until I felt where the traction started to break. The 17" all season run flats had good pull up the hill when going straight. It was very responsive to the throttle. When I took a u turn the rear would swing out like a RWD car. At low speeds the VSC didn't really kick in. After getting a feel for it I drove out on the road and as long as I didn't make a sudden throttle change or hard turn it was very stable. It had a little oversteer drift but it was totally manageable. When I got on it and took a turn the VSC would kick in to bring me back in line but in a fairly wide arc. I was trying to test the limits which a normal driver might not do in the snow....

I dusted the snow off our Black GS430 with 18" runflat all seasons. We have these orange foam squeegee things on broom handles that are made for removing snow. I took it to the back lot and tried the same circles that I had just made tracks with the AWD. I found that I actually had much more control in the turns than the AWD! It would automatically slow me down so I coudn't over accelerate. I tried a few straight up the hill runs. It proceeded slowly up the hill with no wheelspin. I had it floored but it wouldn't listen to my bad advice. Then I took it out on the street. It stayed under control when I pulled out and I forgot for a second that I was in the RWD. I accelerated up the Rockville Pike and the only thing I noticed was the VDIM amber light blinking. I felt the slightest waiver but that was it. I was cruising on the crust with abandon. VDIM is the bomb! I could get used to this and I'm glad my GS owners will not get into trouble with the steering in the snow. The car was unshakable and if I took a turn a little too fast it just started chiming and corrected itself. The arc was smaller and straighter. The only thing it couldn't do as well as the AWD was going straight up hill. The AWD had faster acceleration for this reason. Now if I only had a set of studded tires I think I could take the AWD on. I am definitely a believer now... In VDIM we trust."

Thanks so much forposting this. It has removed every doubt about purchasing the 450h. cant wait to sign the papers :)

[SW03ES]

You can't compare the GS450h to someone's experience with a GS430. Wheelspin is very bad for the hybrid system, thus the VSC on the hybrid is VERY insistent that there be no wheelspin, which creates issues when driving in the snow.

IMHO a gS430 would be significantly better than a GS450h in the snow.

[silvercorvette]

Snow isn't an issue with me anymore now that I moved from NY to SC I don't intend going up north for visits if the weather gets cold. I had planned on going up on Christmas and Thanksgiving, which I did do last year but the cold weather just caused me a lot of pain, I just can't take cold weather it was one of the main reasons I left NY. The AWD RX400h that I traded in was pretty good in the snow but it has been replaced with the GS450H 3 weeks ago, because I wanted to go back to a regular car instead of an SUV. But if I do wind up in snow I noticed the GS has a snow switch. Last week I was at the dealer getting the DRL turned off and saw a non hybrid GS trunk, the diffrence in room is huge so the batteries that occupy that space must be large to take up that much room. The snow switch [whatever it does] coupled with the weight of the battery over the rear axle the car should help the car do well in the snow. The car is rather low to the ground so my guess is that even in a AWD version it would still bottom out in deep stuff. This is just speculation on my part but the added weight in the rear my allow it to do almost as well as an AWD model as long as it doesn't get a few feet deep.

This is all guess work on my part based on observations of how regular cars handle in snow when you take into account ground clearance, weight in the rear and other factors. But the torque in the hybrid electric motor may cause wheel spin control problems [maybe the snow switch solves the problem]. There aren't many people on this forum with real snow experience in the GS450H but the one person with the most real snow experience seems satisfied with the performance.

[ljbad4life]

You can't compare the GS450h to someone's experience with a GS430. Wheelspin is very bad for the hybrid system, thus the VSC on the hybrid is VERY insistent that there be no wheelspin, which creates issues when driving in the snow.

IMHO a gS430 would be significantly better than a GS450h in the snow.

i simply beg to differ. to my knowledge a RX 400h awd simply has an electric motor driving the rear wheels, (which only operate at low speeds and minimal traction situations) everyone here seems to recommend the 400h for the snow. I own a Pruis and have driven it all of the snow storms here in the north east, including making a trip from nyc to ma during the last snowstorm in feb. So i really dont think the "wheelspin" is a factor at all especially since trac control kicked in along with vsc (while driving the prius). I also drove along the merrit parkway (anyone in ct can testify that road is the hillest and most curvetastic highway in the north east) The only thing i was worried about was the rwd effecting steering in snow. If the 450h drove anything like the prius in the snow i will simply love it (it drove straight, no wheelspin, and it maintained a great speed through out the journey)

[silvercorvette]

You can't compare the GS450h to someone's experience with a GS430. Wheelspin is very bad for the hybrid system, thus the VSC on the hybrid is VERY insistent that there be no wheelspin, which creates issues when driving in the snow.

IMHO a gS430 would be significantly better than a GS450h in the snow.

i simply beg to differ. to my knowledge a RX 400h awd simply has an electric motor driving the rear wheels, (which only operate at low speeds and minimal traction situations) everyone here seems to recommend the 400h for the snow. I own a Pruis and have driven it all of the snow storms here in the north east, including making a trip from nyc to ma during the last snowstorm in feb. So i really dont think the "wheelspin" is a factor at all especially since trac control kicked in along with vsc (while driving the prius). I also drove along the merrit parkway (anyone in ct can testify that road is the hillest and most curvetastic highway in the north east) The only thing i was worried about was the rwd effecting steering in snow. If the 450h drove anything like the prius in the snow i will simply love it (it drove straight, no wheelspin, and it maintained a great speed through out the journey)

I was born in CT and have cousins in Stamford and Monroe, I drive the Merrit every time I visit, I even took it on the way to Springfield Mass, and I agree ee it is one of the worst roads to drive in the snow. If it does OK on the Marrit that is saying a lot.

[SW03ES]

The nature of the hybrid system makes wheelspin very dangerous for the system, so the trac systems are overzealous and tend to cut traction to such a degree in certain situations that the car won't move at all.

It has nothing to do with RWD, AWD, or FWD, its the hybrid system itself. I agree in most situations the Prius is fine in the snow (we drive ours instead of the Lexus in the snow) but if you get in that certain situation the trac system will have you jammed.

[lucasb7]

One thing I'm slightly confused about is that Lexus provides the GS450h with the trac/vsc off switch. Considering how conservative Lexus is I seriously doubt they would put that switch there if the hybrid system couldn't handle a little wheelspin.