wwest0

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The statement was in direct response to your "question". "...why you feel the need....." Sorry if I offended you but editing your original post was more direct and easier than copying your "questioning" statement into quote form and then answering. Maybe an analogy would help: Suppose you see a pretty girl (AWD RX300) across the dance floor, walk over and ask her to dance and then discover her breath smells of nicotine (the RX isn't really AWD). But she is REALLY beautiful and well mannered otherwise, overall a really nice person, so you become engaged (purchase your first AWD RX300). Now you get to meet her family (LS400, GS300) and you go ahead and plan, upgrade the honeymoon (trade-in for a NEW AWD RX300 w/HID/VSC/TC). And NOW you discover she has an even more beautiful younger sister (RXh) that doesn't smoke...WOW. But... She does drugs (RXh is a gas guzzler). Now if I could just get her to break the drug habit.......

yes, the climate control would most likely "handle it", abet at the cost of even less FE. But what about an RXh without a sunroof, that would certainly "blend in". My sunroof shade stays closed most of the time anyway. If it had airflow vents like the MB it would probably stay closed even more of the time.

Yes, Steve I don't think anyone will disagree with you. Insofar as OEM nav systems are concerned Toyota definitely belows (sorry, should be belongs) at the TOP of the list. But. Portable GPS/nav systems in the class of the Garmen Nuvi have now made captive, OEM, nav systems pretty much obsolete.

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system. So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC. I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions. Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times. *** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall. You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one, you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology” in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so. Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so. I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow. Did you miss the part where I recommended, for wintertime driving conditions, the F/AWD version of the RX400h instead of the RWD GS450h...???

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system. So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC. I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions. Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times. *** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall. You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one, Oh, but I do own, and have driven a hybrid, a 2003 Prius. you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology” How about I justt equate the RXh & HH, and especially the GS450h and LS600H, as having a gas-guzzling SUPERCHARGED engine without the public, nor your insurance company, being aware of same...??p in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so. Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so. So, in a strange way you're saying that reading up on and comprehending what one reads, researching, a given vehicle, of vehicle type, is useless. In other words one should just go out and plunk down $40,000, 60,000 or $100,000 for a new car since previous knowledge gained from even a small amount of research, let alone a LOT of effort, is WORTHLESS. I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow. I owned a 2000 GS300 for about a year, enough wintertime driving to know that even with the engine/transmission in "snow" mode the RWD aspects of my GS300 made it a bit squirrelly, controllable but...., even with winter tires, on the slippery stuff. We all know, at least I hope most of us do, that these electric motors in our hybrids provide a stellar level of TORQUE at initial startup, start-off, or any any low speed. That's why the Atkinson cycle engine, HIGHLY FE, but inordinantely low end torque, is such a PERFECT made for the HSD concept. So, for most of us, we don't have to actually own a GS450h or LS600h (RWD both), in order to KNOW how squirrelly they will be on the slippery stuff absent a serious, REALLY SERIOUS, level of "dethrottling" of the electrics when driving on the slippery stuff. Automatic TC, Traction Control, inclusive of engine dethrottling, is already being widely acknowledged as a JOKE, even Toyota is now providing a method for turning it off so the driver can have the needed/required control of the throttle.

IMNSHO the GS450h is 'WAY over-powered and a horrible prostitution of the use of the HSD concept. I am normally an advocate of RWD (as opposed to the "other" choice) but it seems to me that the absolutely STELLAR level of low-end torque provided by the GS450h's electrics would be really hard to tame absent a very quick reacting TC, Traction Control, system. So be prepared to either switch TC off or spend a lot of time "feathering" the throttle in attempting, I suspect mostly unsuccessfully, to defeat TC. I also consider the RX400h just another prostitution of the HSD concept, TOO much power, unwarranted power, for the platform. So I would recommend(***) the RX400h F/AWD model even though it is mostly FWD, and even with F/AWD remains most definitely FWD biased, be a better choice for adverse wintertime roadbed conditions. Should you go ahead with a GS450h purchase I would recommend NEVER traveling without tire chains on board in the wintertime and not hesitating even briefly to install them when encountering adverse roadbed conditions. With the GS450h's dramatically HIGH level of low end engine/drive torque, even with a good, even excellent, set of winter treads the onset of wheelspin (even considering a "snow" mode, engine/electrics "derating" activation) will often be so quick and sudden you will be forced to have TC active at all times. *** The RX400h can only have tire chains installed on the front. Raising the potential, by Lexus own admission, for loss of directional control substantially. Adding 1.5 inch wheel spacers at the rear will allow the use of most types of tire chains at the rear first, SAFELY, and a second set at the front if the need should arise. I added 1.5" wheel spacers, 17X8 wheels, and wider tread tires all around on my 2001 F/AWD RX300. Slightly wider "stance" improves stability overall. You’re opinion would matter it you had owned a hybrid or had driven one, Oh, but I do own, and have driven a hybrid, a 2003 Prius. you have used the term “the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology” How about I justt equate the RXh & HH, and especially the GS450h and LS600H, as having a gas-guzzling SUPERCHARGED engine without the public, nor your insurance company, being aware of same...??p in another thread but haven’t defined the term when I requested you to do so. Your advice is useless due to the fact you haven’t had any behind the wheel experience in any hybrid in good road conditions let alone snow experience and you use terms you haven‘t been able to define when asked to do so. So, in a strange way you're saying that reading up on and comprehending what one reads, researching, a given vehicle, of vehicle type, is useless. In other words one should just go out and plunk down $40,000, 60,000 or $100,000 for a new car since previous knowledge gained from even a small amount of research, let alone a LOT of effort, is WORTHLESS. I ask you again, what exactly is your definition of an abuse of hybrid technology? My advice to the original poster is to not pay attention to someone that seems to have a vendetta against hybrids, and to listen to people that own a hybrid and have driven it in the snow.

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I purchased, still own, a 2003 Prius. When the RXh was announced I put my name on the "order" list, immediately. Obviously I did so with the expectation of FE as the design goal, NOT 0-60 MPH as the primary goal.

Steve, With all due respect, I must say your comment comes as quite a shock! From virtually everything I've read in reviews and message boards for the last few years, the Toyota NAV has been universally panned. Even the Germans who were last to embrace the DVD-based format have apparently surpassed Toyota. And, actual experience with my '08 400h bears that out. Although it has the best display of the cars with NAV I've owned ('02 Cadillac STS and '04 Maxima) the general operation leaves a LOT to be desired. I've been telling people for 25 years that Toyota makes the best vehicles, and now that I've "returned to the fold" with my RX, (we also we have an '04 Sienna XLE LTD that will be traded for an '09 TCH - with NAV - next week) I still maintain that mindthought. It pains me to say it, but this is one area where Toyota has really dropped the ball in and they apparently refuse to correct the situation. It is truly mind-boggling and INEXCUSABLE! My Garmin 7500 [it has an MP3 player built in for playing talking books old radio shows, XM with weather stock and traffic, plus there is an optional $100 antenna you can buy so you don't have to pay the XM fee to get traffic reports on an FM signal. the Garmin can be set to just warn you about traffic tie ups or it can automatically find an alternate route.] is far better than the Lexus, the dealer mentioned something about the GS450H having NAV in it when I took the Garmin off the dash of the RX400H and put it on the dash of the new GS450H, I told him the RX had the NAV also but I got the Garmin because the Lexus NAV sucks and it won't allow you do use it while moving. He said it was for safety. I asked him how it was safer to pull to the side of the interstate and risk someone rear ending me at 70 mph than having a passenger use the NAV...........no answer That could be because your question wasn't worthy, had no foundation, of an answer. The clear majority of drivers would not be so senseless as to put themselves at risk in the manner you describe. I will not even do that for a state trooper trying to pull me over for a (supposed) traffic infraction. If he/she is not willing to follow me to a more safe area to pull over.... I turn on my hazard lights to acknowledge the trooper and so far all (~5 in 20 years..??) have understood.

Since we haven't yet seen Chicago Girl's response to your previous question for clarification why would you now assume the "door" is not fully open...?? A bit of browsing on the internet via google inducates that "Lexus Pursuit of Innovation" is a Lexus corporate level effort being implemented via signing up dealers for customer information input/"gathering". Seemingly UNLIMITED input.

Just search for wwest for LOTS of complaints, VALID and marque comparitive complaints, about the early gen LS400, the 1st gen RX, and the RXh, as ALWAYS, along with suggested fixes. Apparently since I don't actually OWN an RXh you should not consider those complaints valid, sorry.