LauraW

A couple weeks ago, I wrote: I was wrong. This was only working with the HD radio attachment for the Peripheral Electronics iPod kit that I had installed (and have since taken back out, since it sucked). With the regular FM radio in my 400h, the behavior is: On the Audio screen in FM mode I see "buttons" for 6 stations on the touch screen. Each shows the frequency and then one word below it. For the station I'm tuned to, the extra info rotates between the station's call letters and each word in whatever text message they're broadcasting -- usually the artist and title info. When I'm not moving, I can touch the "Message" button on the Audio screen and see full artist and title info. As soon as the car starts moving, it blanks them out and shows a message saying they're hidden for my "safety". This is very stupid on Lexus's part. If I want to see the song info, it's actually more distracting to watch the Audio screen while each word of the artist and song names cycle through the display. It would make much more sense to let me see the whole thing at once on the "message" screen, where I can see it at a glance and shift my attention back to the road. -- Laura, wanting to shoot all the lawyers

Another response to myself.... I haven't been online in a while (except for at work), but I've done a bit of work on my 400h. Last weekend the VaisTech SL2i I ordered arrived, and I returned the Peripheral Electronics adapter to BestBuy and installed the SL2i. My verdict is: It sucks less. The SL2i, when used with a Gen5 nav system, lets you pretend that your iPod is a CD/MP3 changer. The 6 different "CDs" let you pick different modes: #1 lets you browse playlists, #2 browses artists, etc. The browsing is fairly reasonable: you see a bunch (10?) on the screen at a time and can use the up and down arrows to jump to the next batch. If you're browsing artists, then pressing that artist's name on the touchscreen shows you all the songs by that artist. If you're browsing playlists, then pressing the playlist shows you all the songs in that playlist. The common them here is "songs", which is why I'm still not 100% happy with the VaisTech interface. Ideally, what I'd want when browsing all the artists on my iPod is to touch the artist's name and see all of their albums. Then I'd touch the album's name and see all of the songs on that album. For some artists it doesn't matter too much, but for artists where I have 10+ albums (e.g. The Beatles), it's a pain. And for later, more album-oriented rock music (think Pink Floyd or Yes) or classical music, I really want to be able to play a whole album, not just individual tracks. This is why I say the VaisTech unit still "sucks" a bit. Another downside of the SL2i's interface is that the nanny software in the Lexus nav screen doesn't let you browse MP3s while the car is moving. If an album or playlist finishes playing, I have to stop before I can select another one to play. This is going to be seriously annoying on long road-trips, which is when I use the iPod the most because of the lack of good radio stations out in the middle of nowhere. I may try one of the Coastal Technology "lockpick" kits to see if they fix this, but I don't know if they unlock the audio system screens or just the nav and bluetooth ones. If anyone has tried this and knows whether it works, please let me know! I'm going on a long road trip in a week or two and am thinking of installing one of these gizmos real soon now. The display from the SL2i is much better than from the other unit, though. You can see the entire Artist, Album, and Track name on the Audio screen, not just the first 6 or 10 characters. I'm pretty sure it displays that even while the car is in motion, unlike the radio, which hides the info on the "message" screen while the car is moving. The SL2i is good enough that I'm going to stop experimenting and stick with it. Hopefully the VaisTech people will eventually upgrade its firmware again to allow multi-level browsing of Artists -> Albums -> Tracks. (I'll ask about this on their forum.) Since it's fairly easy to control the iPod with this unit, I decided to put the iPod in my glove box. I put the SL2i down by the passenger-side kick panel under the dash. Fishing the iPod cable from there up to the back of the glove box was a bit tricky because you have to go around a corner. I ended using electrician's "fish tape" that I've used for home wiring and networking projects in the past. Then I drilled a 3/16 hole in the back of the glove box, up near the top left, cut a slit down to it with a utility knife, and used that to thread the iPod cable through the hole. That way it doesn't have to bend over the top of the glove box and there's no danger of it floping around in the glove box or falling back behind there and getting lost. Still, if anyone has info on the real Lexus iPod adapter, let me know. My dealer claims not to have any cars that have it installed and says there's no manual for it, but says that since it's made by Lexus "it must be good". Right. I'm certainly wasn't going to buy it with that little info, so I ended up with the VaisTech unit instead. The other thing I did to the Lexus last weekend was install a tow hitch. My dealer wanted $600 (parts + labor) to install one, but they sold me the part for $275 plus tax. Installing it took maybe 2 hours, part of which involved learning how to use the new torque wrench I bought. (50 ft-lbs is a lot less torque than I thought it was.) The install was pretty easy, except for getting the first bolt holding the hitch in place on each side. The friend who was helping me had to leave just before that point, so I struggled a bit trying to hold one side in place with my feet while bolting the other side in place with one hand while holding it with the other. That didn't work so well, though it was a great upper-body workout. Eventually I figured out I could prop one side in place with a milk create, put in a couple of bolts on the other side, and then take out the milk crate and bolt that side. Then I put in the rest of the bolts and torqued them all down. If I'd known what I was doing, all this would have been very easy, so the ~$300 that the dealer wanted for installing it was way too much. Installing the wiring for the hitch was fairly easy too, though you have to disassemble half of the interior of the back of the car to get to the socket where it just plugs in. There are excellent photographs and instructions for this elsewhere on this forum. If you're thinking of installing a hitch, spend a bit extra for the Toyota/Lexus part: the wiring is very easy to hook up and has pre-attached clips and grommets to keep it in the right places. -- Laura

This is definitely fixed in my 2-week-old 2008 RX400h (with Gen5 nav and ML audio if that matters). If I press the Audio button while I'm driving (and then press "Text" on the touchscreen if I'm not already in that mode) I see artist and song info from the radio on the nav screen. The "I Agree" business that I'd read about on this forum doesn't happen on my car either. Instead, I get a 5-second disclaimer screen when I first press one of the buttons like Map, Menu, etc, and then it goes on about its business. That feature has a bug, though. Sometimes after the disclaimer screen it takes me to the wrong screen, e.g. it goes to the Map screen even if I pressed the Menu button. I think Lexus may have been listening to all the complaints. Or maybe my dealer did something to the car before I got it. Either way, I'm not complaining. -- Laura

I haven't noticed this in my new RX400h. I'm pretty sure I've seen artist names and song titles when I'm moving if the radio station is broadcasting them. I'm wondering if Lexus fixed it with the latest Nav update. Does anyone know for sure? BTW, is there a way to find out what version of the Nav system software I have? -- Laura

Agreed. In my old Toyota 4Runner that I just replaced with a 400h, the 4WD was great for accelerating on snow, for plowing through small drifts, and for reducing the small amount of sliding around that vehicles sometimes do on washboarded gravel roads. (I haven't tried the 400h in any of those conditions yet.) The one thing that 4WD and AWD can't help you with is momentum. If you're going fast on snow or ice and try a sudden stop or turn, you're going to get an unpleasant surprise, AWD or not. Driving back into CA over Donner Pass at the start of last January's big storm I saw plenty of 4WD cars spun out to the side of the road even at the gentle curves that come after a good downhill stretch. CalTrans was actually running pace cars to slow down all the drivers who thought their 4WD made them invulnerable. My rules for driving in snow are to keep it slow, don't try to do anything sudden, and don't try to do two things at once.

Did you end up getting this installed? How is the UI for controlling the iPod. Can you browse by artist, album, etc? I'm trying to find a good iPod integration solution for my new RX400h. The iPod part of the Peripheral Electronics one sucks (see my post over on the hybrid forum) so I want to hear about the other ones too. Thanks! -- Laura

Answering part of my own question... I bought and installed one of these today because they're available (and returnable) at the local Best Buy. Installing it was pretty easy using the instructions here. The pros: The install was pretty easy, though pulling off the trim panel with the seat heater controls in it was a bit scary because it took quite a bit of force. I put the HD tuner behind/below the factory radio (so the antenna cable would reach it easily) and put the main unit down by the passenger side footwell where it's easy to get to for upgrades. Having an HD radio that will pick up the HD2 channels that some of the local stations broadcast is great. The HD reception on FM stations is also great. The unit is upgradable via a simple USB cable, though the one I bought already had the latest firmware. The cons: The iPod integration user interface totally sucks. And I mean totally. You can browse by artist, album, etc. as advertised, but you have to do it using the tuning knob rather than the touch screen, and you can only see the first few characters of the artist or album name. I found it basically useless. If I keep this unit I'll end up mounting the iPod on the dash so I can control it with its own clickwheel. AM reception on the HD tuner and on the factory stereo now stinks. There's a slight chance that this is because I didn't make the wiring harness mod that their instructions recommend for radios with two antennas. (I skipped it because there's a good chance I'll return the unit and I don't want to do any permanent surgery until I'm sure which kit I'm going to keep.) But I kind of doubt that this what's causing the bad AM reception. I'm probably going to end up taking this back to Best Buy for a refund, but it was a worthwhile experiment. The only way I'd keep it is if all the other units also have lousy UIs that make me want to control the iPod directly, in which case this unit might be worthwhile just for the HD capability. On to the next experiment... -- Laura

You can put the new firmware in the older units too, as far as I know, though it won't do you much good if you don't have the Gen5 nav system with MP3 support. I need to ask my dealer if they have one I can play with. Monday. The new firmware supposedly lets you browse by artist, album, etc., but the posts on their forums don't make it very clear how the UI works. I'm about to post a question about it there, and hopefully their support folks will post more information. Thanks! -- Laura

I just bought an RX400h last weekend, and now I want to get an iPod integration kit for it. It's a 2008 RX400h with Nav and the Gen5, Mark Levinson audio system with CD/MP3 changer. Some of the things I want on the iPod hookup are: Able to control the iPod fully from the radio controls and Nav touch screen. In particular, I want to be able to browse by artist, then by albums for that artist, etc. It would be even nicer if I could also browse by Composer, since some of the music on my iPod is classical. I've never seen an aftermarket iPod interface that does this, but it can't hurt to ask. I want to be able to see the name of the current artist, album, and track on the Nav screen, not just on the tiny radio display. Even better, it would be great to see the album art on the Nav screen too. Some of the third-party radios with iPod integration like the Kenwood and Alpine can do this, but I have no idea of the software in the Lexus screen (or its audio bus) is capable of this. I've never seen a factory audio system that could do it. But again, it can't hurt to ask. :-) Finally, the ability to add an HD radio would be a small plus, because some of the stations in my area run extra programs on additional HD channels. This is pretty minor, though I know I can't get all of those features together and will have to pick the best combination, but I'm curious what you all know about units that support them. Here's what I've been able to find so far: The VaisTech SL2i or SL2vi, with the latest firmware. The new firmware does let you browse by album and artist, though the UI seems pretty primitive and it's unclear whether you can browse the whole hierarchy: artists, then albums, then tracks. Lots of people on this form and elsewhere seem to have the VaisTech units and are happy with them, and there's an active community on the VaisTech forums, which is a plus. The firmware is upgradable, also a plus. They have no plans to support HD. The Peripheral Electronics PXAMG kit, which claims to be an "OEM" kit that interfaces correctly with factory audio systems on many different makes of cars. Their web site has a video showing how it works on a cheapo Ford factory radio, but I can't find any info on how well (or whether) it integrates with the Lexus Nav system's touch screen. They told me in an email that this will work in the 400h, but they didn't really answer my questions about how it integrates with the Nav system, so I'm pestering them again. This unit has an optional HD tuner, which none of the others seem to have, and its firmware is upgradable. The Lexus-branded iPod interface. I don't know much about this, and I haven't seen posts from anyone who has one. I downloaded a one-page info sheet on it (from somewhere on these forums, I think), but I now I can't find where it came from. The HD Dice unit. They seem to allow browsing by artist and album, and there's an HD radio built in. I've seen posts from people who have the non-HD version of this, but none from anyone with the HD version. I'm not sure the HD version actually exists yet; their web site says it's "on backorder". The USA Spec PA20TOY, which a local audio shop recommended. It claims to let you browse by artist, album, track, etc. using either the radio controls or the Nav screen. No HD as far as I can tell. If I had to choose right now I'd try the PXAMG + HD unit or the DICE HD (assuming it really exists). But I'd love to find people with first-hand experience with these things. Does anyone have personal experience with any of these units? I'd be interested in hearing opinions on how easy their interfaces are to use. Can you find artists, albums, and songs (almost) as easily as on the iPod itself? How do they deal with huge lists of artists (200+)? Is that fairly efficient (e.g. a scroll bar) or do you have to scroll through the whole list one item at a time? Thanks! -- Laura

Yep, that's about what I figured, but I decided that the pretty blue color wasn't worth an extra $2,500 to me at the other dealer. And I'm not a very good negotiator, so I didn't feel like doing the "Well if you could find a blue one, how much would it be?" dance with the local dealer. It's not that big an issue, really. You don't know my friend. It's not impressive unless she herself spent lots of money on it. Everything else "sucks". She's not quite the "spend $1,000 on a cable" sort of audiophile, but she "hears" things that nobody else I know can perceive. I mostly agree. I wish there were a Lexus-grade hybrid SUV that was a bit more fuel efficient even at the expense of a bit of the power (maybe an upscale, hybrid Rav4). But there's not, so the 400h seemed like the best compromise given what I was looking for. I hadn't heard of the Atkinson Cycle before. The wikipedia article on it is interesting. Yeah, I saw some of that yesterday. I drove the route I knew was fastest (central expressway from Mtn. View to Sunnyvale) and it kept suggesting that I turn right and cut over to El Camino (and all of its traffic lights) until I got almost to the street that goes by my house. It definitely knew Central and all its intersections were there. It may be that the "expressways" in Santa Clara County make the system confused. They're semi-limited-access roads that are not quite freeways but have higher speed limits and fewer traffic lights than most surface streets. If it's treating Central like a normal surface street, I can see it thinking El Camino would be faster because it cuts across diagonally. Map routing is a hard CS problem, but it's also obviously solvable by people like Garmin and Google Maps. -- Laura

I pulled the trigger and bought a 400h today, at Stevens Creek Lexus in Santa Clara (or maybe San Jose; I'm not sure). It's the fully loaded version (which is all the dealers seem to stock, unsurprisingly) in the Bamboo Pearl color. So far, I'm very happy with it, though I've only put about 25 miles on it in the 6 hours since I bought it. I actually would have preferred a Breakwater Blue 400h, or maybe the Matador Red, but those seem to be very rare around here. The folks at Stevens Creek actually told me that both colors have been discontinued, which I have a hard time believing since they're the best ones. :-) But the only person locally who could promise me a blue one was the internet manager at Magnussens in Fremont, and I couldn't talk him down very far on the price. The folks at Stevens Creek gave me a fairly good deal on a Bamboo one that they had on the lot. It's sort of an off-silver color with just a hint of green in it, which I can barely see because I'm a bit color-bline. (They also had a silver one on the lot, but there are too many silver cars out there and I didn't want yet another one. :-) Other tidbits and ramblings: - I ended up with the ML audio package, but to be honest I can't really tell the difference between it and the standard one. It happened to be equipped on the car I wanted, and since they knew I wasn't very impressed by it they knocked off quite a bit on the price for the "upgrade" to it. After I picked it up I took an audiophile friend of mine for a ride and she sneered at the sound, but it sounds good enough to me, and it's certainly better than the sound in my old 4Runner. Given the road noise, which is much better than in other SUVs I've driven but still audible at higher speeds, I don't think it makes sense to try to get perfect sound (whatever that means) in a 400h, or probably in any car. - I made sure the '08 400h had the "Gen 5" audio / nav system so that I can put a good iPod adapter in it. The two I'm thinking of are the Vaistech SL2i (with the new firmware) and the USA Spec PA20 TOY, which a local car audio shop recommended. The Vaistech one looks more attractive since you can browse artists and folders from the nav screen. (Has anyone played with the new firmware on one of these yet?) I'd also love to find an HD tuner that worked in the 400h (perhaps in place of the satellite tuner) but I don't think such a thing exists. - The dealer seems to have partially unlocked the nav system. There's no "I Agree" screen, though the first time I switch to the nav view after the car has been powered off for a while it does show me a legal disclaimer screen for a couple of seconds. I can select pre-programmed destinations while driving, but I haven't tried entering new ones while driving (which doesn't seem very safe anyway). - The sales guy said that some 400h's seem to have problems setting up Bluetooth sync with Treo smartphones. Mine old 700p worked fine, though. - I haven't yet figured out the right "touch" to keep the ICE from kicking in. Even when I try to accelerate very slowly, it engages pretty quickly. But I've only driven the thing for an hour or so, and it will probably take quite a while to get used to it. - I also haven't figured out coasting / gliding yet. When I take my foot off the accelerator, the car starts to do very mild regenerative braking. From what I've read, pressing very lightly on the accelerator should put it into a mode where it's just coasting without using either the engine, motor, or brakes. I think I need a lighter touch. - I think I got something like 26 or 27 mpg driving around town running errands this afternoon, which is impressive for a brand-new car and a driver not used to hybrids. It's way better than my old 4-runner, though as Steve said mileage isn't the primary reason for buying a car like this. (It's a good excuse, though. :-) - I'm very impressed with the power. I'm not a very aggressive driver, but when I merged onto the freeway a couple of times it was great. - The fit and finish is much better than anything else I looked at. The Highlander came close, but it wasn't quite as nice and didn't have as many bells and whistles. The Ford Escape and the Subaru Forester a friend of mine just bought don't come close. (Though my friend's Forester is a very nice car for its price.) - Up above, someone trashed the idea of plug-in hybrids. I think the jury is still out on them, but in California they might make sense. Our power here is fairly green, at least compared to other states in the US. And drivers tend to recharge plug-ins at night, when there's not much stress on the power grid. But if everyone bought them, the grid might indeed collapse. I don't think they're practical on a wide scale until / unless we get serious about alternative ways of generating electricity like solar, wind, tidal, more nuclear, etc. It would be economical for me, though, because I can recharge it for free at work off of our solar-powered electrical system. Some of the folks at work who have Prius plug-ins as part of the rechargeit.org work are getting 100 mpg, though I'm not sure if anyone's done the math to see if it really has a lower environmental impact once you factor in the electricity generation, toxics in the batteries, and so on. - So far the navigation seems adequate, but I haven't played with it much. Some of the routes it suggested were bizarre, though, like wanting me to go from Los Altos to Sunnyvale on El Camino instead of taking a short detour to get on the much faster Central Expressway. I haven't adjusted the route preferences at all yet, so hopefully there's a way to make this better. - The salesman kept telling me that the nav system has maps for "the entire country, including Canada", which I'm posting just for the benefit of any Canadians reading these forums. :-) Thanks for all the responses to my original post! -- Laura :D

Good observation. There are several reasons for that, I think. One is that I'm an engineer (ok, a geek). Gadgets are fun! But a Lexus is a rather expensive iPod accessory. More importantly, after owning a Toyota for the last 9 years, I trust them to get the basic stuff like engines right on the Highlander and Lexus. (Ford, I'm not sure I'd trust so much.) And I know enough people at work with Priuses that I think Toyota is the reigning expert on Hybrid systems. (I work at Google, and there are Priuses everywhere on campus.) Also, I don't really know that much about the mechanics of modern cars and engines, so I just don't have the background to ask engine geek questions. I'm just taking it for granted that Lexus (and to a lesser extent Toyota) have great reliability and warranties, based on my own experience and reviews in various magazines like Consumer Reports. (And warranty info is pretty easy to find on the net and at the dealer.) But the little things like gadgets are harder to get info on and harder to really get a feel for during a test drive. And finally, I've found that on long trips (maybe 1/3 of my driving) the little stuff like noise levels, iPod hookups, etc. make a huge difference in how much I enjoy a car. I've enjoyed my old 4Runner a lot more since I got the Alpine stereo with its iPod hookup, crappy as it is. Thanks for the answers! Keep 'em coming. -- Laura

Oh, and one more question I forgot: which tires should I get? The consensus seems to be that the Goodyears on most models from the factory are decent tires but kind of noisy, while the Michelins that some dealers have are quieter but prone to hydroplaning. Is that accurate? Thanks!

I'm shopping for a hybrid SUV, and right now I'm strongly leaning toward the RX400h. So far I've test-driven a Highlander hybrid (nice but huge), the 400h (even nicer and a more reasonable size), and the Escape hybrid (decent, but feels cheap and plasticy, maybe because I drove it after the Lexus). I've read through the last couple months' worth of posts here and I've still got a few questions for you 400h owners out there... How usable is the nav system? It doesn't look like the UI is as nice as on the aftermarket Garmin units, but is it usable? A bit of poking around during a test drive didn't really answer this one very well. (I'll end up buying one of the lock picks, so I'm not worried about not being able to enter destinations while driving.) Has anyone done an a/b comparison of the sound of the standard audio package vs. the Mark Levinson one? The differences seem to be the CD changer (which I don't really care about because of my iPod) and the external amp plus extra speakers. Do the ML speakers sound significantly better than the standard ones? Is there a good approach to iPod integration? My main criterion here is a good user interface -- ideally as good as the iPod itself -- because I've been burned before. I bought an Alpine head unit for my current 4Runner a couple of years ago, and Alpine supposedly had the best iPod integration on the market, but its user interface basically stinks. I have a huge number of albums and songs on my iPod, and finding them via the Alpine interface is very frustrating. Do any of the aftermarket iPod interfaces for the 400h do a decent job of letting you browse through the artists, albums and songs when you have a large collection of them? Or am I better off just plugging in to the AUX jack provided by some of the lockpicks and controlling the iPod directly? I've seen a few threads on the lockpicks, but I haven't seen a definitive answer on which versions work with the '08 400h with and without the ML audio upgrade. Does anyone have the real info here? It looks like the dealers here in the Bay Area have almost all high-end models with the Nav and Premium Plus packages; the only real choice is whether you get the ML audio or not. A few of the items in the Premium Plus package seem a bit gimmicky and failure-prone to me, especially the Adaptive Front Lighting. What has everyone's experience with that been? Is it actually useful? Has anyone had it die on them? (Adding a motor to something as critical as headlights offends my "keep it simple, stupid" engineering sensibilities.) Thanks for reading this far. If you have any other advice on purchasing a 400h, what to look out for, which dealers in the Bay Area (or salespeople at those dealers) to talk to, what accessories are must-haves, please respond and let me know. Finally, I have an off-the-wall question: is anyone aware of plug-in conversion kits for hybrids other than the Prius and the Escape? If one of these were available for the Highlander or 400h it would probably clinch my decision either way. I have a short commute and the ability to plug in at work, so this would make my commute almost gas-free. But so far I haven't been able to dig up even rumors on this, even at work where there are people involved in rechargeit.org. Thanks! -- Laura