Top Rx400h Annoyances

[Mitch Kahn]

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage isnot as high as the EPA mileage . If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

[SW03ES]

Wow, thanks for joining and sharing that with us.

What would you like us to do about it? This website isn't owned by Lexus.

My question is, did you test drive the car before you bought it and try out the features? You're taking the RX, which is almost 5 model years old at this point and is due for a remodel next year and comparing it to all new models.

Its the only Hybrid luxury SUV on the market, or even remarkably close to being on the market. I'd say thats pretty cutting edge technology.

As for the "Play artist..." commercials. Thats Microsoft's SYNC technology and it is VERY cool. They have an exclusive roll-out agreement with Ford. Want that? Gotta buy a Ford.

[mindmachine]

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

[thelazydogsback]

> You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one

I disagree. (I had a similar diatribe on here after I bought mine.)

I *drove* the car several times - I certainly didn't have the inclination or time to play with the nav unit -- I assumed (and was also assured by the Lexus staff) that the nav unit was up-to-snuff.

I don't care how old the RX model line is, there is simply no excuse for that unit as it is to *ever have shipped with any car*, never mind on an expensive cutting-edge vehicle.

The voice reco *is* horrible -- and I'm not talking about the accuracy of the reco, but even it's whole rasion d'etre, as even if it performed perfectly, it adds little value as it is designed.

Ignoring all the other problems of the nav unit, the thing that makes it most usless is that I only get about a 50% hit with any destination:

- Entering an address often results in "That address does not exist". Really?

- Address entering (umlike a Garmin, etc.) doesn't use the current position to prioritize address entry -- so you end up seeing crap for many miles that isn't necessary

- AFAIKT, the POI list is about 10 years old, or only includes things like gas stations, which I couldn't care less about.

I end up using Telenav on my Blackberry, which is always seems bizzare with an in-dash nav.

They should at least install the head into a standard-double bay so I can replace the damn thing if I want to...

But otherwise, the car has been great. (Ok - adjustable suspension would be nice :))

mike

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

[jrober]

"- The mileage SUCKS compared to the sticker mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees."

That is amazing. I couldn't get 22.5 mpg if I tried.

The mileage on my last tank is 30.5 mpg. My normal freeway mileage is at least 27 mpg. I towed my 2500 lb boat up to Canada last week and averaged 21 mpg for 800 miles at mostly 65 mpg. I have a 2008 Rx400h and I get substantially better mileage that the current advertised EPA numbers (24-26 as I recall).

The arm rests are my biggest complaints. They are totally useless for my wife and I. I wish they were adjustable.

[RX400h]

One only has to look at any BMW X5 forum to see the biggest difference between the X5 and the RX400h - reliability. If you want autobahn-burning-dang-the-fuel consumption, look at all the whizz-bang gizmos motoring, by all means get the X5 or Mercedes SUV.

You certainly won't be able to duplicate the near complete absence of problems that I've experienced with our RX - 3.2 years of absolutely flawless operation. THAT's why I bought a Lexus. Is it perfect? No, but I'll take reliability over gadgetry, any day!

[Gryphon]

I assume that you all know that the EPA revised all of its numbers back to 1987 and that the (FWD) RX400h is now rated at:

27 city

25 highway

I do better than both numbers.

Tom

[wwest]

One only has to look at any BMW X5 forum to see the biggest difference between the X5 and the RX400h - reliability. If you want autobahn-burning-dang-the-fuel consumption, look at all the whizz-bang gizmos motoring, by all means get the X5 or Mercedes SUV.

You certainly won't be able to duplicate the near complete absence of problems that I've experienced with our RX - 3.2 years of absolutely flawless operation. THAT's why I bought a Lexus. Is it perfect? No, but I'll take reliability over gadgetry, any day!

On the other hand if you live or drive in an area that requires AWD, REAL functional AWD, the relatively poor reliability and low FE of an X5 or an X3 might well be your best investment.

[katzjamr]

Mitch, you have to remember the average age of a Lexus owner is 61, i would bet money you are younger. I think for that reason the decision makers at Lexus left out some of the better ideas in the entertaiment system. Not a good excuse to forget about MP3 at least but i think other things were on their radar. I am in seattle and have no problem with the Nav system it has always worked well, and i drive throughout western washington for my job. (the one glaring exception, not fixed in the new update is that the Lexus system will not recognize a street address in downtown seattle that is simply 'fifth avenue', it always wants a fifth NORTH or SOUTH, my dealer says that is a known flaw for those of us who use the GPS in the northwest)

I am more grateful that toyota designed a reliable hybrid system that works well even though it is complicated. As gas races past 4.00 (premium is 4.60 in the NW as i type) to 5.00 it becomes more important every day. One also has the ability to conserve even more with thoughtful driving.

I am most dissapointed at the loud rattles near the rear decklid that have returned at 36000 miles. My ford exploder on its worst day never rattled like this car. Yes the dealer will fix them again. The OEM Goodyears never should have appeared on this vehicle and honestly i think Toyota owes everyone some kind of rebate for their second set the day those things come off the vehicle. Yes i stopped using the voice recognition but thats not a deal breaker for me.

Regarding the headlights, I think what you are experiencing is that they are set too low. Lexus has a habit of doing this saying they dont want to blind oncoming traffic. Nevermind that the left headlight is set even lower than the right. When i got an 08 loaner that was set noticably higher than mine i asked the dealer to adjust them higher. Even though the service tech winked when he said 'we really arent supposed to do that', i winked back and i noticed they were adjusted up after my last oil change.

Lastly, Mitch while no Lexus is cheap, my friend paid 86K out the door for his X5 a few months ago, and yes i love the seats, and his bamboo inlay in the dash, and as wwwest mentions the undoutably better 4wd system, i think the 400h is a much better value. Also know that you have found valuable resource in this group of people online, who are here to help you with problems you may have, and they have been deep source of knowlegde and support with this SUV over time.

[RXREY]

So get another car already. This is a Lexus owners club. Complain to Lexus for the love of Mike. Be happy, life is too short and you do have options. I'd rather think about other things. If I didn't like my great...GREAT RX 400h, I'd get something else...but not a FORD! Get your Ford and write in in about a year. Rey in L.A...and very happy with my Lexus.

[RXREY]

> You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one

I disagree. (I had a similar diatribe on here after I bought mine.)

I *drove* the car several times - I certainly didn't have the inclination or time to play with the nav unit -- I assumed (and was also assured by the Lexus staff) that the nav unit was up-to-snuff.

I don't care how old the RX model line is, there is simply no excuse for that unit as it is to *ever have shipped with any car*, never mind on an expensive cutting-edge vehicle.

The voice reco *is* horrible -- and I'm not talking about the accuracy of the reco, but even it's whole rasion d'etre, as even if it performed perfectly, it adds little value as it is designed.

Ignoring all the other problems of the nav unit, the thing that makes it most usless is that I only get about a 50% hit with any destination:

- Entering an address often results in "That address does not exist". Really?

- Address entering (umlike a Garmin, etc.) doesn't use the current position to prioritize address entry -- so you end up seeing crap for many miles that isn't necessary

- AFAIKT, the POI list is about 10 years old, or only includes things like gas stations, which I couldn't care less about.

I end up using Telenav on my Blackberry, which is always seems bizzare with an in-dash nav.

They should at least install the head into a standard-double bay so I can replace the damn thing if I want to...

But otherwise, the car has been great. (Ok - adjustable suspension would be nice :))

mike

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

Easy fix...when the system tells you "No address exists" or whatever...simply enter the CITY first! It was an easy fix...most of these things that you all complain about are sounding like spoiled kids stuff...sorry, but I must now leave this forum forever. Peace and I hope that you all find your perfect car...I have other things to do....Rey Bustos in L.A.

[SW03ES]

Mitch is a troll guys, he'll probably never even post again...

[Gryphon]

Perhaps Mitch works for Mercedes.

Tom

[RXREY]

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

Enter CITY first...there, the "Address doesn't exist " problem solved....easy fix. The car is great! I get over 26 MPG...I can always make 400 miles on around 15 gallons. I am so glad to go from gassing up once a week to twice a month! Get another car and move on. I don't understand making the money that we do to be able to get whatever car that we want and then complaining so much. GET SOMETHING ELSE! Good luck finding a better car than a Lexus. Rey

[s10]

blah blah blah

funny.

[RXREY]

Well, I've had my RX400h about 9 months now and I have to say, I am unlikely to buy another Lexus (or Toyota). I guess I was spoiled by BMW's thoughtful engineering, and the Lexus just has too many stupid design decisions for me to overlook.

My list (not in any particular order):

• - The GPS is a TRAINWRECK. I have had GPS since 1997 in most of my cars. Had I known how bad the GPS is on the Lexus, I would have bought a Ford Hybrid Escape. The list is long:
  • - Can't Enter Address Use While Driving. This is just plain idiotic. But I think everyone agrees on this point. My BMW and Honda both work normally. But hey, I can POINT TO A LOCATION by scrolling the map while driving (oh, that's a good way to keep your eyes on the road!). Thanks, lawyers and lousy Lexus UI engineers.
    

• - The Voice Recognition only works in the driveway. Well, maybe at speeds that cause no road noise. Above that, forget it. I end up screaming a string of obscenities at the car. And it can't recognize my home town at all ("San Jose"). No, I don't have a strange accent. But I have tried a Japanese accent...no luck. The Honda is MUCH better.
  

• - Stupid restrictions on which screen you can use voice recognition commands. You want to "Go Home" but you're on the wrong screen? Well, the unit will recognize "Go Home" (after 2-3 tries) but then tells you "Not Available on this Screen". Seriously? Was it not clear what I wanted to do? Unbelievably stupid UI design. The same if I want to enter an address but I am on the Energy screen. So how is this safer? I need to push a bunch of buttons just to do what it ALREADY HAS RECOGNIZED that I want to do. My Honda doesn't do this. "Go Home" works everywhere.
  

• - Really dumb algorithm for calculating arrival time. OK, so you FINALLY got the address in to the unit after pulling over on a dangerous shoulder to satisfy the lawyers. Now, the GPS blindly uses whatever speeds you've programmed into the unit for highway, local road, etc. Even my 10 year old BMW did a better job than this by looking at average speeds. And I am amazed at how well the Honda does (and I don't know how it does it, don't care.)
  

• - No 3D View. OK, this is just jealousy of the Acura and BMW GPSes. But Lexus is in the same class of product, it should be just as good.
  

• - The Overall Console Interface. By this I mean both the LCD screen and the small LCD on the radio. Want to see a song title or artist? Well, you're not allowed on the big screen while you are moving. But by pushing multiple buttons on the lower screen, you can! Does this make ANY sense? If the idea is to keep my eyes on the road, why allow it at all? This type of arbitrary design is EVERYWHERE (especially with the GPS, see below). My Honda let's me see the song name and title while driving.
  There are MULTIPLE examples of where actions are arbitrarily allowed while driving while others are forbidden. There appears to be little rhyme or reason. Get a clue Lexus, I am an adult and it is not your responsibility to prevent me from using what I paid for.
  

• - I like the fact you can play MP3/WMA CDs, but why not MP3 DVDs? You have DVD read capability, this is just software. But as long as we're talking MP3s...
  

• - No iPod interface or HDD based player? Really? It's 2008 guys! I long for the capabilities in those cheapo Fords I see in commercials ("play artist 'Strokes'"). It's just sad leading edge technology is not in this car.
  

• - $500 to install XM? Really? It was FREE in my Honda (which was $20K less).
  

• - The mileage is not as high as the EPA mileage. If I drive perfectly I can get around 25. Usually it is around 22.5. Nothing like the 30+ you advertise for city driving. And pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has a RX400h agrees.
  

• - The headlights are horrible in extremely dark conditions. I was on highway 80 west of Truckee California and was SHOCKED at how bad the lights are in pitch black conditions. The beams seem to die instantly about 150 feet out. No rolloff, they just die. I mentioned this to the dealer at the 5000 mile checkup and the service person said "yeah, customers have been complaining about that for years." Really? Lexus, are you listening?
  

I have more annoyances that are minor, like the dumb knee-bashing placement of the left cup holder near the door (though it was nice to find it, 3 months after I had the car :)). But I think I'll stop here.

I had high hopes for the RX400h when I first got it, but the annoyances are so many that I can honestly say I will never buy another Lexus. As soon as there is a hybrid (or hydrogen!) BMW small SUV, the RX is going away...

You do sound unhappy about a lot of things on the RX that I would have thought you would have noticed before you bought one, but the good news is the resale value of your Lexus RX 400h should be real high as hybrids are in demand and short in supply where as other SUV's are severly depressed in the market. Bet you could sell it and make a great deal on a gas guzzling BMW SUV.

As for not getting the mileage the sticker said I do better on the highway side on my 08 RX400h, if I drive carefully I can get around 32.6 MPG I average around 28.4 MPG city and highway combined about 50/50.

As for the nav system, I agree, I have a 07 Acura MDX and the Lexus nav system is a joke in comparison, but I added the Coastaltech Lockpick 3 basic and it allows me to input destinations while moving, look for POI's ect., and for only $99 and it only took 5 min to install. The lockpick really improves the functionality to a point where I am not totally happy with the Lexus system, but it is now quite usable while driving. Oh and while I like my Acura the gas mileage sucks compared with my Lexus RX400h.

One other point, the cup holder you mentioned, wow you must have long legs to have a problem, that it is up past the centerline of the steering column and up against the door, dont know what else they could have done other than not put one there at all.

I think you have to consider the Lexus is a 5 yr old design that will probably be improved when the new model comes out next year, but I doubt the nav system will be improved, except again the Lockpick is well worth the money if you plan on keeping your current RX very long.

Enter CITY first...there, the "Address doesn't exist " problem solved....easy fix. The car is great! I get over 26 MPG...I can always make 400 miles on around 15 gallons. I am so glad to go from gassing up once a week to twice a month! Get another car and move on. I don't understand making the money that we do to be able to get whatever car that we want and then complaining so much. GET SOMETHING ELSE! Good luck finding a better car than a Lexus. Rey

Blah, blah,blah? Good comeback...... seems only fitting...

[NeoN]

Mitch, you have to remember the average age of a Lexus owner is 61, i would bet money you are younger. I think for that reason the decision makers at Lexus left out some of the better ideas in the entertaiment system. Not a good excuse to forget about MP3 at least but i think other things were on their radar. I am in seattle and have no problem with the Nav system it has always worked well, and i drive throughout western washington for my job. (the one glaring exception, not fixed in the new update is that the Lexus system will not recognize a street address in downtown seattle that is simply 'fifth avenue', it always wants a fifth NORTH or SOUTH, my dealer says that is a known flaw for those of us who use the GPS in the northwest)

I am more grateful that toyota designed a reliable hybrid system that works well even though it is complicated. As gas races past 4.00 (premium is 4.60 in the NW as i type) to 5.00 it becomes more important every day. One also has the ability to conserve even more with thoughtful driving.

I am most dissapointed at the loud rattles near the rear decklid that have returned at 36000 miles. My ford exploder on its worst day never rattled like this car. Yes the dealer will fix them again. The OEM Goodyears never should have appeared on this vehicle and honestly i think Toyota owes everyone some kind of rebate for their second set the day those things come off the vehicle. Yes i stopped using the voice recognition but thats not a deal breaker for me.

Regarding the headlights, I think what you are experiencing is that they are set too low. Lexus has a habit of doing this saying they dont want to blind oncoming traffic. Nevermind that the left headlight is set even lower than the right. When i got an 08 loaner that was set noticably higher than mine i asked the dealer to adjust them higher. Even though the service tech winked when he said 'we really arent supposed to do that', i winked back and i noticed they were adjusted up after my last oil change.

Lastly, Mitch while no Lexus is cheap, my friend paid 86K out the door for his X5 a few months ago, and yes i love the seats, and his bamboo inlay in the dash, and as wwwest mentions the undoutably better 4wd system, i think the 400h is a much better value. Also know that you have found valuable resource in this group of people online, who are here to help you with problems you may have, and they have been deep source of knowlegde and support with this SUV over time.

wait till that X5 is equal to the value of the rx400h in about 4 years! bmw will come out with a hybrid SUV deeming the X5 gas guzzling V8s next to no value... german cars deprecaite at a much higher rate than japanese cars.

[NeoN]

so your going to complain about navi? headlights?

get an aftermarket navi unit if you dont like it, its ten times better than a fixed or repaired daily navi, benz and bmw i garbage.

aim your headlights up, takes 3 seconds

these gripes are minor when you consider what a sheer technical marvel the rx400h is.

my only problems with the rx400h is the extreme amounts of body roll, i wish someone made sway bars for the truck.

also the awd system sucks, it drives like a FWD car 99% of the time, not a fan of torque steer

besides that im one happy owner, although i couldn't get the ML stereo system in my car! ARG!!

[tommygunn]

I LOVE our car; my wife is thrilled with it; and I really do enjoy driving it; but I agree with some of it's shortcomings:

- The NAV system is not very user friendly; I have been spoiled by the ease of use of my 2005 Acura TL NAV system; and this one isn't even close to being in the same ballpark. I am really surprised by Lexus' non focus on this issue.

- The XM radio works great; but it was an expensive add; and the way the antenna was installed (a little plastic square glued on top of the roof; with a visible wire) still *BLEEP*es me off. My Acura had everything built into the ONE antenna on the roof. LEXUS; this is a $55000 car; it should be built into the main unit!!!! Let the owner decide if he wants to keep it!!!

- I think my headlights are GREAT!!! When we are driving on a dark road, it lights up the road very well.

- This car is FAST!! Pickup is great; and it hums at high speed (not that I drive like an idiot, but the car moves when the need arises to pass a truck) Compared to a regular RX350; the 400h is great!!

- I agree the Goodyear tires are not the best; but they handle the snow here in SE Michigan just fine. AWD drive works well.

A few gripes, but I am very happy with our car.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

Wow, thanks for joining and sharing that with us.

. . . . . snip

As for the "Play artist..." commercials. Thats Microsoft's SYNC technology and it is VERY cool. They have an exclusive roll-out agreement with Ford. Want that? Gotta buy a Ford.

Not many folks that you can say are fans of SYNC, as anything from Microsoft is prone to the blue screen of death. Gawd, they've single handly messed up PC's and smart phones ... now they're working their freez prone software into cars. That can only spell disaster.

[SW03ES]

Have you used the Sync?

I have and thought it worked extremely well.

[Rick1947]

Well, here's my .02:

Voice response - forget it

Bluetooth phonebook - random selection of one phone number per person, one at a time? What were they thinking.

GPS - I find it to be very good in general. Here's how to bypass the "safety" feature (at least in my '06): Menu/Audio. Touch upper left, lower left, upper left, lower left. On the screen that appears, hold "Bypass" until it turns black. Hit Back. Unfortunately, you have to do this every time you turn the car on. However, you can do it while the car is moving!

Mileage: Local roads I get 30 to 32 in warm weather. Highway I can get over 30 as well setting the speed control to 55 - 60. Having the bar graph on will teach you how to do this.

Annoyances: that "surge" you occasionally get as you roll to a stop! Rear wiper (but my dealer has replaced this free a couple of times). Front floor mat wearing a hole at 20K (once again - a whole free set from my dealer!)

[RXREY]

Well, here's my .02:

Voice response - forget it

Bluetooth phonebook - random selection of one phone number per person, one at a time? What were they thinking.

GPS - I find it to be very good in general. Here's how to bypass the "safety" feature (at least in my '06): Menu/Audio. Touch upper left, lower left, upper left, lower left. On the screen that appears, hold "Bypass" until it turns black. Hit Back. Unfortunately, you have to do this every time you turn the car on. However, you can do it while the car is moving!

Mileage: Local roads I get 30 to 32 in warm weather. Highway I can get over 30 as well setting the speed control to 55 - 60. Having the bar graph on will teach you how to do this.

Annoyances: that "surge" you occasionally get as you roll to a stop! Rear wiper (but my dealer has replaced this free a couple of times). Front floor mat wearing a hole at 20K (once again - a whole free set from my dealer!)

Wow, thanks for the bypass info, I'll try that. I have never had a GPS so I really don't know anything else besides what came with my beautiful 2006 400h so I have been so happy to have it. I didn't really want it but it came with the car and now I can't imagine not having it. Anyway, thanks, Rey

[wwest]

Well, here's my .02:

Voice response - forget it

Bluetooth phonebook - random selection of one phone number per person, one at a time? What were they thinking.

GPS - I find it to be very good in general. Here's how to bypass the "safety" feature (at least in my '06): Menu/Audio. Touch upper left, lower left, upper left, lower left. On the screen that appears, hold "Bypass" until it turns black. Hit Back. Unfortunately, you have to do this every time you turn the car on. However, you can do it while the car is moving!

Mileage: Local roads I get 30 to 32 in warm weather. Highway I can get over 30 as well setting the speed control to 55 - 60. Having the bar graph on will teach you how to do this.

Annoyances: that "surge" you occasionally get as you roll to a stop! Rear wiper (but my dealer has replaced this free a couple of times). Front floor mat wearing a hole at 20K (once again - a whole free set from my dealer!)

That "surge" you get just before coming to a stop may very well one day save your life.

On a FWD or F/AWD vehicle it is potentially life-threatening to have a significant level of braking, engine compression braking or regen braking, should the roadbed traction be questionable. Ford now has a US patent that addresses this issue in their hybrids. Ford reduces the level of regenerative braking significnatly as/when the OAT approaches/reaches freezing levels. Additionally regenerative braking is disabled completely the instant ABS detects impending lockup during actual braking.

I wouldn't be very surprised at all if this is one of the cross-license issues and so, as a safety measure, Toyota/Lexus HSD vehicles are likely to do the same. thing

[vinovelo]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That "surge" you get just before coming to a stop may very well one day save your life.

On a FWD or F/AWD vehicle it is potentially life-threatening to have a significant level of braking, engine compression braking or regen braking, should the roadbed traction be questionable. Ford now has a US patent that addresses this issue in their hybrids. Ford reduces the level of regenerative braking significnatly as/when the OAT approaches/reaches freezing levels. Additionally regenerative braking is disabled completely the instant ABS detects impending lockup during actual braking.

I wouldn't be very surprised at all if this is one of the cross-license issues and so, as a safety measure, Toyota/Lexus HSD vehicles are likely to do the same. thing

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The infamous "surge" is not that effect at all. I experience this myself only once in a great

while, usually when coming to a stop at a slight downhill angle. It isn't so much a surge as the

resistance of the regenerative braking releasing just before a stop. The result is that you

need to push harder than expected just before stopping.

I have only experienced this about three times in several months. I could see that if a driver

was distracted or not paying full attention you could easily end up hitting a bumper or stopping

further into a cross walk.

It is difficult to reproduce on command. It is fairly subtle.

/Steve