Looking At Is250

[gocardinals]

Looking to get my first Lexus ... IS250. I currently have a 2006 MB CLK. I feel in love with the NAV on the IS, but price is a concern. They are quoting me a lease price of $475 a month, no money down, taxes included, for an AWD without NAV. Dealer is saying an extra $75 a month for NAV. What do you guys think?

[smooth1]

A couple years ago I would have said Nav is a waste, but I have completely changed my mind. I have fallen in love with having one. We go to Miami and other places alot. And the Nav system is just soooooooooooooooooo much better. I personally think it's way worth it!

[gocardinals]

Thanks. I feel the same way, but an extra $75 a month seems a little extreme, over 4 years, doesn't it?

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[smooth1]

That's what?, 3600 bucks? the Nav is a 2k upgrade anyway? Hmm, yeah, but I wouldn't look at that way. It's $550 a month the lease the car you want, or 475 for the car you don't want so much. I would call around and see if you can find a dealer to beat the price offer you have, maybe get the negotaitional skills rolling here. And see if you can have them meet you somewhere in the middle. If not, and you have the best price, then you just need to make the decision, but remember, you have that payment every month. So, in order to find the bank you may want to have that nav system telling you where it is!

[gocardinals]

Thanks. As you can see, I am new to this forum,and so far, I am very impressed. Like I said, I currently have an Audi and a MB CLK, so I'm eager to try a Lexus.

[smooth1]

One thing I noticed about the Lexus Nav I really liked is that when your on the freeway, it lists on the side the next 3 exits, what's at them and how far they are away. I have really come to like that feature. When we travel to other cities, It's so nice being able to just sit in the car and do an area search for a good resturaunt, either on the map showing where they are in relationship to your current postion, or on a list for you to just choose from and how far away they are. One button and your course is plotted and it an call ahead and you can ask more questions and set reservations if you need. And the back up camera that comes with the package is very useful. I like that for backing out of the driveway coming out of the garage. The touch screen options are way nicer also. So, when you look at all the upgrades that come with the Nav option, and remember that it's not just Nav that costs that much, then I think it's worth it. Plus it makes the car more valuable and resaleable. I know your leasing, but it's still a point to consider.

[smooth1]

Welcome to the LOC by the way. I hope you do get a Lexus and join the site. We have alot of fun here. ;)

[PA350]

People will always be on both sides of this argument. I've done both...had cars w/integrated Nav and also used portable Navs. I am now a firm proponent of built in Nav. I hate cords, I hate crap on my windshield, I never have it with me when I need it and finally I really like the integration w/phone and stereo.

My Cayman doesn't have Nav, and I keep a portable in the car's storage just in case I get lost. My other cars (06 IS350 & 04 TL) both have integrated Nav.

Now YOU need to decide the cost to your wallet.

[Knightshade]

Nav is actually -bad- for resale value.

Take 2 months of the extra nav payment and buy a Garmin.

Or take 4 months of the Nav payment and buy a Garmin that does -more- than the 90s-era Lexus factory system does.

A nuvi will easily fit in the center console, so it's always "with" you when you need it... and you can use it in a rental car if you travel too.

For $300ish you can get one that also does bluetooth so you can call the restaurant you're going to, and it'll ALSO be able to do realtime traffic, which the Lexus unit can't. And it won't cripple itself when you put the car in drive like the Lexus unit will.

Nuvi'll run for hours off the battery too so you don't need to use the cord much if you don't want to.

I specifically ordered my IS -without- nav because I couldn't see dropping a few thousand on a unit that did less than one costing a few hundred.

You DO lose the backup camera, but the IS is a small car, so it's not much loss... On a suburban I could see it being really usefull... and you could add an aftermarket one of those for a couple hundred if you HAD to have it.

[tex2670]

Looking to get my first Lexus ... IS250. I currently have a 2006 MB CLK. I feel in love with the NAV on the IS, but price is a concern. They are quoting me a lease price of $475 a month, no money down, taxes included, for an AWD without NAV. Dealer is saying an extra $75 a month for NAV. What do you guys think?

You will never get a consensus on this debate. If the extra $$ is an issue, you should skip it--or negotiate harder. It's your car--get it the way you want it.

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[tex2670]

That's what?, 3600 bucks? the Nav is a 2k upgrade anyway? Hmm, yeah, but I wouldn't look at that way. It's $550 a month the lease the car you want, or 475 for the car you don't want so much. I would call around and see if you can find a dealer to beat the price offer you have, maybe get the negotaitional skills rolling here. And see if you can have them meet you somewhere in the middle. If not, and you have the best price, then you just need to make the decision, but remember, you have that payment every month. So, in order to find the bank you may want to have that nav system telling you where it is!

Well--there's some weird math. The Nav pkg (w/o Levinson) is $2500. But you'll pay an extra $75 for 48 months for it??? That makes no sense at all. Even for 36 months, it's $2700 for the life of the lease. How can that be that, over the life of the lease, you pay out more than the MSRP of the nav option, and then you turn the car in and the dealer takes advantage of the residual value?

DEFINITELY negotiate harder.

[smooth1]

Well, I'm all for aftermarket units. Although I still don't think the hand helds are of the top choices. That's just a personal thing though. A friend of mine has a Garmin, and we used it when we went to TPC Sawgrass, and that thing was useless on in town driving. I much preferred the Toyota Nav to that thing. I also had the AVIC D-3 and Z2, which is one of the nicest after market Nav systems available. Both did a great job. And as for being able to operate it while in drive, I haven't run into that issue so much. At first I did think it was going to be a pita, but it really hasn't.

Why would nav be bad for resale?

I agree, everything is overpriced. But even the aftermarket Z2 will run you 1800 bucks, and the Avic D3 will smart you a grand. And that's not installed. Your comparing a Nav only unit, to a NAv, bluetooth, AM/FM, 6 disc changer, rear camera, XFM, Sirrius ready, touch screen unit, that also does all your maintenance intervals, and ties into the car much better. Does the non nav cars have voice activated controls also? I wasn't sure about that.

So, when I look at Pioneer, Alpine and a few other aftermarket units and see about the same price I would pay, maybe a bit more but also is warrentee'd with the car, then I don't think the costs are really out of line.

[gocardinals]

Thanks guys for all the wonderful responses. It's definitely a tough decision. $475 definitely looks better than $550, that's for sure. Any other insight would be greatly appreciated. I'm dealing with a dealer where I have leased two previous Audi's and my MB CLK. So, they have always done me right. I called a couple of places in St. Louis, and the first one with NAV came back at $599.

[tex2670]

Well, I'm all for aftermarket units. Although I still don't think the hand helds are of the top choices. That's just a personal thing though. A friend of mine has a Garmin, and we used it when we went to TPC Sawgrass, and that thing was useless on in town driving. I much preferred the Toyota Nav to that thing. I also had the AVIC D-3 and Z2, which is one of the nicest after market Nav systems available. Both did a great job. And as for being able to operate it while in drive, I haven't run into that issue so much. At first I did think it was going to be a pita, but it really hasn't.

Why would nav be bad for resale?

I agree, everything is overpriced. But even the aftermarket Z2 will run you 1800 bucks, and the Avic D3 will smart you a grand. And that's not installed. Your comparing a Nav only unit, to a NAv, bluetooth, AM/FM, 6 disc changer, rear camera, XFM, Sirrius ready, touch screen unit, that also does all your maintenance intervals, and ties into the car much better. Does the non nav cars have voice activated controls also? I wasn't sure about that.

So, when I look at Pioneer, Alpine and a few other aftermarket units and see about the same price I would pay, maybe a bit more but also is warrentee'd with the car, then I don't think the costs are really out of line.

It's not so much that it is bad for resale, it's just that you may not get full value for the nav. Say the resale for the car is 65%. If you paid an extra $2000 for the nav, the residual for the nav may be an extra $1000 (50%), rather than $1300 (65%).

[smooth1]

I agree with that, but resale value is also built with buyer desire. And the first thing people seem ask right now when looking at a new or new used car, is" Does it have nav?" And a "yes" makes that car more desireable right there!

[Knightshade]

You still get XM/Sirius ready and you still get a 6-disc CD changer without nav... the only things you get with nav are... nav... which the garmin does better... and bluetooth which the garmin does equally... and the backup camera which the garmin doesn't do (though some other aftermarket navs DO offer that)

As for resale-

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-0...sale-usat_N.htm

"Built-in navigation systems increase the depreciation of a car or truck, a startling fact that has some car companies rethinking their approach to the $2,000 factory-installed systems."

Two reasons that navigation isn't worth much in a used vehicle:

•Used-car buyers are looking for bargains, not technology, says James Clark, senior manager of consulting for ALG.

Clark's example: A high-end 2007 Acura TSX sedan should be worth 55% after three years without navigation, 53% with. The $2,000 navigation option winds up adding no more than $600 to the value of the 3-year-old car, he says.

Other technology that usually depreciates fast, according to Clark: adaptive cruise control, night vision, cooled seats.

•Technology changes. "The development cycle on these (portable) units is a year or less," says Ted Gartner, Garmin spokesman.

(so by the time you sell your already feature-outdated-from-the-factory nav car you're selling ancient technology that doesn't do half what a $100 unit will do)

[smooth1]

I'm not argueing or even debating you. Dollars to sense would tell you no nav is less expensive. But we are talking about buying a luxury car here. If a grand or two is going to really hurt, then your buying to high in the ladder anyway.

Also, the xfm and Sirrius options I meant were not on the hand helds. That the $300 or $400 price tag you quotes are for nav only, not all the other toys that come with an in-dash unit. All the in-dash units I looked at aftermarket are ranged in the same price, with the exception of options changing the overall value of each one.

I just don't care for hand held units.

1) Hassle of putting it on the dash and removing everytime you get in and out of the car. Leaving it would be an advertisement for breaking a window and snatching it. And here in Florida, if you left it on the dash, the sun would take it's toll on it pretty fast.

2) Carrying something else to the car! Man, my hands are allways full now, the last thing I need is another piece of equipment to keep track of.

3) The screens are to small. and the bigger the screen, the bigger the piece of equipment I have to carry around.

4) I don't know of anyone who has in dash nav and doesn't use it. I know plenty of people who have Tom Tom's and Garmins sitting on the counter collecting dust.

5) Even though they are Blutooth, they don't pause the music and all when the phone rings, and then bring it back up when the conversation is over.

Some things you buy because you need, and some things you buy because you want. And with some of the things you need, you get what you want anyway.

For example, I was more about not wanting the way over priced spoiler and ground effects package they try to put on everything. You want to save some money?, have them not put all that on the car. that's a few grand right there!

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[bartkat]

I agree with that, but resale value is also built with buyer desire. And the first thing people seem ask right now when looking at a new or new used car, is" Does it have nav?" And a "yes" makes that car more desireable right there!

I agree with Smoothie --- Regardless of what the "marketeers" say, when my wife and went looking for a new car, we went to Toyota and looked for a new 2008 Camry. The first thing I asked about was the NAV option. The dealer sales lady spent about 30 minutes looking all over the western states for the car we wanted WITH a NAV system, and she couldn't find ONE, AND they would not take an ORDER. So, that was the day we went to lunch and ended up at the Lexus dealer and bought the IS250, WITH a NAV. I doubt the depreciation is going to sway a used car buyer either way. We are in the "gadget" world I think a NAV system is a plus for any buyer, whether or not they want to pay for it.

I believe a built in NAV system in luxury vehicles will be standard feature in the near future.

Were you aware of the free Magellen GPS with the purchase of your Continental tires?

http://ultimate-adventure.contisweeps.com/...mption_form.pdf

[Randy&Bonnie]

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[Knightshade]

I'm not argueing or even debating you. Dollars to sense would tell you no nav is less expensive. But we are talking about buying a luxury car here. If a grand or two is going to really hurt, then your buying to high in the ladder anyway.

Also, the xfm and Sirrius options I meant were not on the hand helds. That the $300 or $400 price tag you quotes are for nav only, not all the other toys that come with an in-dash unit. All the in-dash units I looked at aftermarket are ranged in the same price, with the exception of options changing the overall value of each one.

1) Hassle of putting it on the dash and removing everytime you get in and out of the car. Leaving it would be an advertisement for breaking a window and snatching it. And here in Florida, if you left it on the dash, the sun would take it's toll on it pretty fast.

2) Carrying something else to the car! Man, my hands are allways full now, the last thing I need is another piece of equipment to keep track of.

3) The screens are to small. and the bigger the screen, the bigger the piece of equipment I have to carry around.

4) I don't know of anyone who has in dash nav and doesn't use it. I know plenty of people who have Tom Tom's and Garmins sitting on the counter collecting dust.

5) Even though they are Blutooth, they don't pause the music and all when the phone rings, and then bring it back up when the conversation is over.

I paid cash for my 08 IS350, I certainly could've afforded Nav.

The way I was able to pay cash for it was by not spending several grand extra on stuff that did less though :P

The $300-400 price tags I quote are for units that do MORE than the factory unit... they do nav, and bluetooth, and ALSO do realtime traffic, weather, fuel prices, movie times, stock quotes, picture viewing, currency conversion, etc...

Use a friction mount and the hassle is 10 seconds of moving it to the center console. Done. Then leave it there so you don't need to remember to take it with you, it already IS with you. You'd be as likely to use it as anything else at that point.

Now, the screen will be 4 inches instead of 7, that's true... but I've never had trouble seeing the screen... and if you do you can spend the $2000-3000 you saved on LASIK and enjoy the benefits even when NOT in the car! :)

[clay1]

Looking to get my first Lexus ... IS250. I currently have a 2006 MB CLK. I feel in love with the NAV on the IS, but price is a concern. They are quoting me a lease price of $475 a month, no money down, taxes included, for an AWD without NAV. Dealer is saying an extra $75 a month for NAV. What do you guys think?

I have mixed feeling about it. I have the NAV and love it because it is integrated with the cars electronics (music, phone, etc.), and integrated to the dash. BUT, the $350 GARMIN my wife has is much much more accurate, user friendly, does not have lock-out, is more up-to-date with roads, attractions, etc. and can be updated on the internet.

I think Lexus should team up with a company who really is good at NAV (just as they do with Bose and the Music System) and integrate that into the car. Then NAV updates could be upgraded maybe wirelessly from your phone or laptop. A CD ROM upgrade is so 1990s. I get it as a revenue stream but they could charge for the internet upgrade. By the way on my 2007 Lexus NAV I have found to be missing roads in urban areas that were constructed as late as 2004.

[gocardinals]

Thanks, guys. I'm more confused than ever. ;)

What is the deal if I want factory XM. Would I be better off with, or without NAV?