Braking

[jobyfreddel]

I did a search but didn't find anything on this. To preface, this is my first new car and I've not had ABS before so forgive me if this is a stupid question.

I've had the 350 for 4 weeks now and I've been experiencing issues with braking. I generally experience this at low speeds (i.e. coasting up to a red light). When I hit the brakes, I get no resistance unless I mash the brakes all the way down to the floor. It's a little disconcerting as I often have a car in front of me and am expecting the resistance/brake application but do not get the response and usually stop with a hard jerk. I have noticed that if I tap the brakes and then hit them again, I get resistance right away. Also, it's not everytime; I've probably experienced it about 5-7 times.

I spoke w/ my dealer and he had not heard of anything like this and set up a service appt for me. Anyone else experience this or know anything about it? Thanks.

[amf1932]

Probably all they have to do is bleed the brakes. Sounds like they have air in the lines.

[Rx330driver]

definately not a stupid question cause it doesnt sound normal. perhaps something to do with the vacuum/brake booster thing?

[remas1974]

I have experienced the same problem! I think the problem can be easily fixed by adjusting the break paddle. I tested the breaks and I found that the lights will not illuminate until the paddle is pressed for at least an inch!! I think this is too much. I have a Mercedes and when I just push the paddle I see the break lights working immediately in less that 1/10th of an inch. I will take my car to my Lexus dealer to get the paddle adjusted and the breaks checked. I think this should be covered by the warranty.

Let me know if you have solved the problem and I will tell you what will happen with me when I have a chance to take the car to the dealer.

[wwest]

Your ES350 is also equipped with BA, Brake Assist, in addition to ABS/EBD/TC/VSC (I probably missed something).

BA will undoubtedly provide a few surprises for someone having never experienced even ABS activation.

"I get no resistance..."

I assume you mean the brake pedal sometimes feels "soft".

That will be normal with BA in certain circumstances. If BA is somehow being "triggered" it will provide an unusual, different/additional level of brake assistance making the brake pedal feel somewhat "slack" or soft". It will be as if your passenger, your wife, has beaten you to the brakes.

As I understand it the BA "firmware" constantly "watches" the rate at which you move your foot from the gas pedal to the brake pedal and if it is abnormally quick/fast it provides additional power ASSIST on the assumption that this is a PANIC/SEVERE braking "event". I have read that it will even extend the period of severe/heavy braking unless the driver is VERY definitive about/how the brake pedal foot pressure is subsequently released or partially released.

I would also suggest that you find a way to expereince ABS actiavation before getting into a situation of actual need.

[remas1974]

I have experienced the same problem! I think the problem can be easily fixed by adjusting the break paddle. I tested the breaks and I found that the lights will not illuminate until the paddle is pressed for at least an inch!! I think this is too much. I have a Mercedes and when I just push the paddle I see the break lights working immediately in less that 1/10th of an inch. I will take my car to my Lexus dealer to get the paddle adjusted and the breaks checked. I think this should be covered by the warranty.

Let me know if you have solved the problem and I will tell you what will happen with me when I have a chance to take the car to the dealer.

I contacted my the dealership today and they told me that they can adjust the paddle so I don't need to smash it all the way down until the break reacts and lights illuminate. I will take it next Monday and I will let you know if the problem is solved.

Thanks

[Toysrme]

Your brakes are perfectly normal.

Welcome to progressive brakes. It gives every moron driver on the planet the amazing ability to come to a complete stop without jering occupants around like crazy. The brake pedal is SPEED (NOT EFFORT) sensative. If you push the pedal quickly, it will have a maximum effort (more traditional sporty) brake pedal feel. Otherwise it simply has an exponentially increasing amount of brake caliper extension the farther you push the pedal. Giving a much finer control to brake application.

The pedal will travel the same distance in either case. Regardless of how you push the pedal, the car still has class equalling/leading braking ability, your brakes are normal.

This is how your Toyota passanger car brakes will be, there is no big adjustment that will discontinue this feel entirely. It can be adjusted to a degree, but you'll honestly need to get use to this.

Personally... It takes afew days to get use to, but after that you'll never want harsh brakes again unless you're driving a Miata.

It's no different than anyone on Earth flying a twitchy !Removed! R/C aircraft. You use 50-75% exponential on the controls so that you have a very fine control around the centers instead of moving the stick 20% from center & having 70% of your control already effectively thrown. Same for brakes... Exponential. Gotta love it.

I'm not being an !Removed!, I'm just being blunt & completely honest. If you don't like it... You need to buy a non-Toyota, because this is how ALL of their passanger cars are. Get use to it, or get out is pretty much how it goes.

[Toysrme]

AFA ABS. Best invention ever.

Hit the brake to the floor, don't let off it until you're done decellerating. The computer will sort it out for you much faster than you can. (Proven in F1, and SCCA racing. LoL! ABS has been borderline of being banned in SCCA racing because drivers become extremely confident in their ability to go sailing very deep into a corner & having the computer sort it out. Bawahahahahahahahaha)

At any rate... ABS. Good thing to have.

It has a giganticly strong pump on the brake lines. Makes tons of noise, you feel the pedal do alittle vibrating as it releases the brakes on any offending wheels, but otherwise the car stays in a straight line (or doesn't just contontrollably slide out of control if you're cornering).

It's alot of huss & fuss, but the end result is that braking near / past the edge of normal human control becomes a major non-event.

[wwest]

AFA ABS. Best invention ever.

Hit the brake to the floor, don't let off it until you're done decellerating. The computer will sort it out for you much faster than you can. (Proven in F1, and SCCA racing. LoL! ABS has been borderline of being banned in SCCA racing because drivers become extremely confident in their ability to go sailing very deep into a corner & having the computer sort it out. Bawahahahahahahahaha)

At any rate... ABS. Good thing to have.

It has a giganticly strong pump on the brake lines. Makes tons of noise, you feel the pedal do alittle vibrating as it releases the brakes on any offending wheels, but otherwise the car stays in a straight line (or doesn't just contontrollably slide out of control if you're cornering).

It's alot of huss & fuss, but the end result is that braking near / past the edge of normal human control becomes a major non-event.

Actually, and to be terribly BLUNT, ABS is quite seriously flawed as is implemented in modern day vehicles. It would undoubtedly be best overall, in all severe braking circumstances, if ABS were to only activate if VSC indicates that directional control is being threatened or compromised.

[Backyard Special]

I also feel what others are feeling. Coming to a stop from a coast I need to smash the breaks to the floor to get it to stop. The es350's breaking system is truly a disappointment. This is the first entry level luxury car I've ever driven and its leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. My previous v-6 accord and integra R had breaks that were FAR easier to modulate. I also test drove the G35 sedan and IS350. Both these car had breaks that were easy to modulate and had almost no "getting used to"

Basically too many damn computers trying to predict what kind of breaking is optimal for me.

[amf1932]

I also feel what others are feeling. Coming to a stop from a coast I need to smash the breaks to the floor to get it to stop. The es350's breaking system is truly a disappointment. This is the first entry level luxury car I've ever driven and its leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. My previous v-6 accord and integra R had breaks that were FAR easier to modulate. I also test drove the G35 sedan and IS350. Both these car had breaks that were easy to modulate and had almost no "getting used to"

Basically too many damn computers trying to predict what kind of breaking is optimal for me.

Hey guys.......the word is Brakes NOT Breaks!!

Now that we've got that straight.......I don't know what the hell you're talking about since I have absolutely NO problems with my ES350 brakes. I've owned Accords, and I've owned an Integra GSR, and I didn't find them to be any better then the brakes on my car.

If you have to "smash the breaks to the floor to get it to stop", then you must have a massive problem with your car, and I suggest you take it into your dealer and have them check it out!!

Now, about the bad taste in your mouth.....I suggest you get a bottle of Scope. :chairshot:

[Backyard Special]

ouch now how the hell did that happen..... :chairshot:

The brakes are different......I'll just leave it at that

[ZeeD]

You guys have been too harsh..

Jobyfreddel there is absoultly nothing wrong with your brakes, if anything you should be happy and enjoying the feel of technology under the soul of your feet.

This is the first time you had ABS let alone felt what assited brake feels like in addition to the hydrolic brakes now a days applied.

I know where you are coming from, this will be your first new car but in the past you had other cars which were either too old or too basic and where the brakes there would be judged by how hard the pad was than how easy it is.

When I hit the brakes, I get no resistance unless I mash the brakes all the way down to the floor.

Thats exactly how ABS works, what happens is within normal crusing/driving when you hit the breaks gently the car stops on its own pace but when you "Mash" the breaks you start to feel on the brake pad a sort of hard vibrating which extends to all the 4 tyres as if its continuous multiple knocks, thats a normal feeling for ABS. Also if the breaks feel a little to easy thats just because they added Brake Assit, the aim is to make pressing the brakes more easier than difficult.

Hope i satisified you!

Cause its extremly unlikely that a brake issue would pass the PDA approval, cause prior to delivering they test all of these aspects!

[Generally John]

makes me feel better, had the same concerns when i picked up a 2007 es 350. My first Toyota or Lexus