Changes In 2008 Rx400h Model(?)

[vinovelo]

Hi all,

Does anyone have information as to what things will change with the 2008 RX 400h model?

Some things were enhanced with 06 -> 07 such as the Nav screen, etc. So, I am curious

as to what might be enhanced on the 08 model.

I have read some rumors about things as significant as battery pack enhancement but

only faint rumors. It would be nice of they installed XM radio (should be an easy thing

to slip into a new model).

[mdsbrain]

Anyone? Would like to know. My Mom almost jumped at a 07 to replace her high mileage 06 400h and we didn't partly to wait for the 08.

[w@ntonsoup]

Nobody's replied because Lexus hasn't announced the '08 RX400h yet. So... you'll need a be a little patient until the details are released.

They did say some of the minor changes for the RX 350 which could be similar: For 2008, the RX 350 receives exterior enhancements that include a freshened front-grille design and new exterior chrome door handles. New seven-spoke 18-inch alloy wheels with a Liquid Graphite finish are available as an option. The 2008 RX 350 also adds two new exterior colors: Brandy Wine Mica and Desert Sage Metallic. Inside, the RX 350 offers an additional wood trim color, Black Bird's-Eye Maple, on units with a light gray interior. Prices are unchanged from 2007.

[Husker4theSpurs]

If I were thinking about getting one as of now, I'd wait to see how the '09 complete re-design goes.

[vinovelo]

If I were thinking about getting one as of now, I'd wait to see how the '09 complete re-design goes.

Depends. The 09 redesign looks like it will be a bigger vehicle. With a slant to more performance.

I really like the current design but if waiting for the 08 could yield a few more improvements it's

well worth waiting a little bit. The 09 won't be readily available for a few years.

If the 08 had better batteries (NiMh) that would be a big reason to hold off.

/Steve

[skyfish400h]

If I were thinking about getting one as of now, I'd wait to see how the '09 complete re-design goes.

Depends. The 09 redesign looks like it will be a bigger vehicle. With a slant to more performance.

I really like the current design but if waiting for the 08 could yield a few more improvements it's

well worth waiting a little bit. The 09 won't be readily available for a few years.

If the 08 had better batteries (NiMh) that would be a big reason to hold off.

/Steve

I beleive the '06 already has the NiHh batteries...they are the best.

[w@ntonsoup]

My manual ('06) says NiMH so until they switch to Lithium Ion (which are currently exploding in laptops everywhere!) we're doing pretty good.

The new Tesla electric car uses Lithium Ion, but has to run an entire A/C system just to keep them cool.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

We right on the newest/latest/greatest ... but ONLY when it gets (my personal pet peave) the smart entry/ignition ... which it ought to have had back in '06.

[Jim Nazium]

LiON batteries have a serious drawback, they lose alot of there potential in cold weather, hence lending them to being less efficient. This can be offset by adding more cells since they create a much lighter cellpack than NiCD or NiMH, but the drawback would then be packaging... More cells require more space.

The best technology to date, and still remaing affordable is NiMH.

I believe the real trend in hybrid technology would be to replace Gasoline with Diesel as the component for the engine side. Diesel technology has come a long way, and it surprises me that Toyota has not taken advantage of this for automotive use.

Cheers,

MadloR

[RX400h]

LiON batteries have a serious drawback, they lose alot of there potential in cold weather, hence lending them to being less efficient. This can be offset by adding more cells since they create a much lighter cellpack than NiCD or NiMH, but the drawback would then be packaging... More cells require more space.

The best technology to date, and still remaing affordable is NiMH.

I believe the real trend in hybrid technology would be to replace Gasoline with Diesel as the component for the engine side. Diesel technology has come a long way, and it surprises me that Toyota has not taken advantage of this for automotive use.

Cheers,

MadloR

I'm not sure about your area, but here in Southern California, diesel fuel is 20 cents per gallon MORE expensive than premium fuel. Compare diesel cost to regular gas costs and it becomes very difficult to justify buying a diesel-powered vehicle. I, for one, am glad that my RX400h runs very well on regular gas.

[Jim Nazium]

In many parts of the country, that is the case (diesel costs more than regular unleaded). Even though, it costs more (it actually requires less, in terms of costs to refine diesel fuel vs unleaded gasoline) it is much more efficient. You can expect two comparable vehicles, one diesel engined the other gasoline, the diesel engine would be 20-35% more efficient (better fuel economy). Let's face it, the RX 400H was never "geared" to be a boy racer. When one thinks diesel, truck comes to mind, as well as better fuel economy, and torque. The diesel engine has come so far in the past 15 years, that many are now FASTER in terms of raw speed, super quiet (no more clatter clatter clatter at idle or under load), and run greener than there gasoline counter part (catalytic converter design has really helped keeping the pollution levels down).

If I had a choice between the two, it would be a no brainer. And besides, even if diesel costs were 20 cents more, I don't believe that should be an issue given the fact that the RX 400H costs an arm and a leg to start with.

Cheers,

MadloR

[williz]

In many parts of the country, that is the case (diesel costs more than regular unleaded). Even though, it costs more (it actually requires less, in terms of costs to refine diesel fuel vs unleaded gasoline) it is much more efficient. You can expect two comparable vehicles, one diesel engined the other gasoline, the diesel engine would be 20-35% more efficient (better fuel economy). Let's face it, the RX 400H was never "geared" to be a boy racer. When one thinks diesel, truck comes to mind, as well as better fuel economy, and torque. The diesel engine has come so far in the past 15 years, that many are now FASTER in terms of raw speed, super quiet (no more clatter clatter clatter at idle or under load), and run greener than there gasoline counter part (catalytic converter design has really helped keeping the pollution levels down).

If I had a choice between the two, it would be a no brainer. And besides, even if diesel costs were 20 cents more, I don't believe that should be an issue given the fact that the RX 400H costs an arm and a leg to start with.

Cheers,

MadloR

sorry, but i have to disagree with your arguments about diesel engines completely!

i live in a country with more than 50% of diesel powered passenger cars and we have very big problems with air pollution because of the high numbers of diesel powered cars. diesel powered cars are normally emitting 20% more CO2 than gasoline powered ones and much more NOx and extrem amounts of fine dust. of course we have now very modern diesel engines coming to the market which reduced NOx output like mercedes blue tec technology but still diesel engines will not meet the high environmental standards for gasoline engines in the near future.

the success of diesel powered passenger cars in europe are mainly driven by the fact that most european country’s are taxing gasoline much higher than diesel fuel and therefore it was much cheaper to drive diesel powered cars. more and more this is changing because diesel powered cars are polluting the environment dramatically and some city’s in europe are even considering a ban on diesel powered passenger cars ( and of coarse old gasoline engines without catalysts).

diesel engines in passenger cars are all turbo charged and everybody is comparing turbo charged diesel engines with "normal" gasoline engines and than yes the diesel engine looks very efficient in terms of horse power and fuel consumption.

as soon as you compare diesel turbo charged engines with gasoline turbocharged engines a 1,4 litre gasoline engine is producing about the same power output than a 2,5 to 2,7 litre diesel turbocharged engine and is much more environmental friendly than the diesel one.

the european car manufacturers would give there lives to have a hybrid drive train ready for the market like toyota is already selling for years now, but they have counted far to long on diesel engines. with the new european union environmental rules reducing the CO2 and the fine dust output drastically you will see a change in marketing of european car manufacturers towards turbo charged gasoline engines and hybrid drive trains like Volkswagen already announced in the last weeks.

[Jim Nazium]

Honda is going to perform the coup de grace...

Hybrid (electric - diesel) and the emission will be 50% cleaner than a conventional powered gasoline engine. Of course if you compare a 82 Volkswagon diesel engine to todays gasoline engine, then yes it's no contest. But I was referring to modern day technologies, like the Toyota hybrid.

MadloR

[w@ntonsoup]

RIGHT NOW, diesel aren't very clean. In the US, that's changing because ultra-low sulfer content was mandated, and super-strict diesel emission standards were put in place. The first phase of the new ones came out in 05 and 06, and anything 07 or newer is really pretty clean. Anything made before 2004 is probably not doing the environment any favors.

[williz]

RIGHT NOW, diesel aren't very clean. In the US, that's changing because ultra-low sulfer content was mandated, and super-strict diesel emission standards were put in place. The first phase of the new ones came out in 05 and 06, and anything 07 or newer is really pretty clean. Anything made before 2004 is probably not doing the environment any favors.

Yes, modern diesel engines are doing much better compared to old diesel engines but as soon as you compare modern diesel engines with modern gasoline engines you will see that even the best diesel engines equipped with all technology we have right now will have to go a long way to meet the environmental standards gasoline engines easily fulfil today.

When you look into the standards and compare numbers you will see what I mean, the environmental standards for diesel engines are much lower than the ones for the gasoline engines.

To meet the modern environmental standards diesel engines will have to fulfil in the next years the diesel engines have to be equipped with a lot of technology driving the price (purchase and maintenenace) for diesel engines upwards.

By the way, Toyota is selling very good diesel engines in Europe, technology wise head on with the best European diesel engines.

But let’s wait and see how diesel hybrids will do in day to day use. What I mean for example is the starting of a diesel engine is far more problematic than the starting of a gasoline engine where you can reduce compression during the starting procedure to smooth in the ICE.

[w@ntonsoup]

I haven't seen any numbers for 2007 diesel vehicles using the new ULSD (15 ppm sulfur or less) - have you?

[williz]

I haven't seen any numbers for 2007 diesel vehicles using the new ULSD (15 ppm sulfur or less) - have you?

I have no figures but European diesel engines are designed for 10 ppm sulphur diesel. All modern European and most Japanese diesel engine cars need the new ULSD diesel fuel to operate without modifications.

This was the reason why European car manufacturers had big problems to sell there diesels on the US market and hope now to be successful in the US.

But again, low sulphur diesel is the prerequisite for modern diesel engines and diesel catalysts and the necessary measurement and motor management. Even with all this new techniques diesel engines are polluting the environment much more than modern gasoline engines. For example the EURO 5 specification (mandatory from 2008 on for all new cars in Europe) specifies 180 mg/km NOx for diesel engines and 60 mg/km NOx for gasoline engines. Most diesel engines meeting the EURO 4 standard are emitting 25 mg/km soot particles, to meet EURO 5 in 2008 this has to be reduced to 5 mg/km soot particles (the current standard for gasoline engines is 0 emission of soot particles).

And every litre of diesel fuel is producing approximately 19% more CO2 than a litre of gasoline!

So I personally hope that Toyota stays with the current hybrid drive train concept and will optimizing battery’s and software.

[w@ntonsoup]

Are you sure about that? I've been reading for two years about how the diesel vehicles coming to America (German brands like VW, M-B, etc) have had to basically create new engine technology to pass our strict emissions standards versus the ones in Europe. This is why we're hearing about the *BLEEP*-boxes (Urea canisters) and the like.

[vinovelo]

If I were thinking about getting one as of now, I'd wait to see how the '09 complete re-design goes.

Depends. The 09 redesign looks like it will be a bigger vehicle. With a slant to more performance.

I really like the current design but if waiting for the 08 could yield a few more improvements it's

well worth waiting a little bit. The 09 won't be readily available for a few years.

If the 08 had better batteries (NiMh) that would be a big reason to hold off.

/Steve

I beleive the '06 already has the NiHh batteries...they are the best.

Sorry, meant Lithium Ion. Better. Faster charge and better discharge capacity.

/Steve

[zeroyon]

Not to derail the diesel discussions. What type of mileage are people seeing with the 400H so far? Hwy vs. City?

[RX400h]

Not to derail the diesel discussions. What type of mileage are people seeing with the 400H so far? Hwy vs. City?

We get 25 MPG with about 50/50 city/highway.

[w@ntonsoup]

In this cold weather, we got 25 MPG on our first tank in our "new" '06 400h.