Steering Has No Center Point

[kardanial]

Hi everyone,

six month ago I traded in my Infiniti G35 coupe for a new lexus is250 rwd. I guess i didn't need the extra power, my kids are growing so i needed the extra 2 doors and the lexus looked nicer than the 4door infiniti.

From day 1 i noticed when driving on the highway that i have to constantly align the car in my driving lane.

Steering with one hand is almost impossible and very tiring. The car feels as if wind forces are draging it from side to side even when there is no wind at all. Sometimes even when changing gears (auto) I feel as if I have a very mild torque steer although it's a rear wheel drive. When I drive on country roads and I turn the steering wheel slightly one or two degees any side, the car keeps turning, the steering wheel does not center itself back unless I center it myself. If I return it too quick, it sways to the other side and I have to reudjust it again. I have done alignment at the dealer, tried three sets of tires from 16" to 18" summer & winter, the problem is still persisting. The dealer tells me don't compare it with your Infiniti you traded but I think I cannot compare it with anything at all. I have had 14 different cars in the past, my wife has a nissan maxima, I have an old 1972 volvo p1800, none of those cars have had this uuuuggggllllyyyy steering.

The dealer thinks I'm complaining about handling, the car handles awsome and goes very tight into curves and does not have the punishing ride the infiniti had. Its those self inputs the car does when you are not trying to steer yourself. I hope I can get help from anyone because I'm beginning to hate this car and regeret my purchase and I still have 2 and half years to go on my lease.

Thanks

kardanial

[bartkat]

You need to contact the district service people and have them look at it since the dealer is either unable or unwilling to dig into the problem and correct it.

[SW03ES]

Thats not normal. The IS250 I drove for two days had very balanced steering, although it was an AWD. I'd look into having the front end aligned and also look at the tires. What PSI are you running in your tires compared to whats on the drivers door frame?

[terry993]

Not normal. After you check the air pressures, I would take it to an alignment place. They can give you a before and after reading, as compared with the specs for your car. Sounds to me like too much negative camber and/or toe in at the front, but I would have all 4 checked. Likely the dealer will not reimburse this, but to me it would be worth it to know I am not chewing up tires, or that it was not just my imagination.

[Scott M]

Not normal. After you check the air pressures, I would take it to an alignment place. They can give you a before and after reading, as compared with the specs for your car. Sounds to me like too much negative camber and/or toe in at the front, but I would have all 4 checked. Likely the dealer will not reimburse this, but to me it would be worth it to know I am not chewing up tires, or that it was not just my imagination.

My test drive if the IS250 showed no signs of that.

Although any of the above mentioned items may be the cause, I would also suggest checking the tire pressure.

Sounds like it may be a tad too high.

Good Luck

[terry993]

I just remembered these cars have electric power steering.

[BigDog]

I noticed the same thing, but not as extreme as you describe. I seem to have a problem because when I drive with one hand on the wheel the car reacts to the slightest movement. I like this when driving aggresive and hate it if I just want to cruise. Other than that it seems like the car drives perfect.

[kardanial]

I just remembered these cars have electric power steering.

that's my biggest problem. some service guys tell me this is how electric power steering works, it's numb on center, does only start to assist when a force is applied, which could be your own or some road imperfections, then sometimes it over assists and that's when you have to constantly recorrect it.

As I said before, the dealer checked tire pressure more than once. Did alignment, and I had 18" summers, 16" original summers, 16" winters(now installed) all of them same problem.

When I researched other lexus forums I found same problem a couple of times but with a lexus LS400, RX and LX (I forgot which models) but I remember I focused on people who had electric steering.

One of the guys said that on his car there a about 15 different programmed steering chips, and the dealer changed the chip to somewhat less sensitive which was not as quick as the original, but more balanced.

I did a printout, showed it to my dealer, but he said this guy had VGRS which I don't have on my lexus so it's a complete different storey plus he checked for any newer release of steering chips or programs for the IS250, didn't find anything. The only outcome he tested another car but didn't allow me to drive it and tried to convince me that it does the same. He didn't take it to the highway, and the straight road parts were very short. Needless to say he advice I go back to where I purchased my car and ask them for zero point calibration. Now I have to find time for maybe the 6th trip to my dealer. I just hope there is a fix in the end, or if this is the future of electric steering then we can kiss "fun to drive" goodbye.

[kardanial]

I noticed the same thing, but not as extreme as you describe. I seem to have a problem because when I drive with one hand on the wheel the car reacts to the slightest movement. I like this when driving aggresive and hate it if I just want to cruise. Other than that it seems like the car drives perfect.

thanks for your reply, at least someone assures me I'm not crazy. The car I test drove before my purchase was the all wheel drive and I didn't pay much attention at that time because I was more focused on its grip in sharp turns which as I stated before was perfect, furthemore I didn't take it to the highway.

Now if you can do me a favour try this simple test. Try to find a side road with enough straight stretch maybe 1 to 2 miles. You don't have to speed maybe 30 to 40mph enough. Center your car and take off your hands completely of the steering and see how long before the car starts to either deviate left or right. Do the slight correction and remove your hands from the steering wheel. I bet it will drift to the opposite side. Also try this, just turn the wheel 1 degree slightly to any side and see if the wheel tries to work against you to recenter itself. If you have my problem it won't turn back unless your turn is over 5 degrees or so. Even if you go into a left or right turn (90 degrees) and take your hands off the steering after the apex, the wheel will return leaving 1 or 2 degress before center.

If you can get back to me after these tests I would realy appreciate it.

[DaRacerz]

Well, let me butt in here and confirm as well. Although I don't think mine is as severe as urs, buts thats probably just perspective. I would agree that the centering power isn't all that great and that the slightest movement will make the car move around, but I believe its by design. Theres a lot of factors involved.

One thing I would ask to have changed out of manufacture spec is the caster setting if its possible. It could be set very neutral causing the easy movement out of center.

[kardanial]

Well, let me butt in here and confirm as well. Although I don't think mine is as severe as urs, buts thats probably just perspective. I would agree that the centering power isn't all that great and that the slightest movement will make the car move around, but I believe its by design. Theres a lot of factors involved.

One thing I would ask to have changed out of manufacture spec is the caster setting if its possible. It could be set very neutral causing the easy movement out of center.

Do you feel the steering gets heavier as you speed? Should it? Because I'm sure mine does not. I feel it's the same loosness around the center at any speed. Of course at highway speeds I only turn the wheel very slightly so I can't tell exactly about full turns. But for the small adjustments I can assure the steering is as heavy as when the car just barely moves.

For everyone who is interested or has the same problem please check the following link, (I don't know why it does not underline, but cut & paste:) I would pay any mechanic to apply it on my car since I don't have the courage to do it myself:

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=2390

I think this is the solution, and assuming he experimented on a toyota prius, it should be the same for lexus.

The same website also explains how to modify hydraulic power assisted steering I think on a lexus ls400.

[bartkat]

What you have is not a common problem. I've only heard of it in the posts here. I have never noticed anything unusual about the steering on my 06 IS350 nor have I seen it mentioned in the over 7000 posts in the othe forum I read regularly.

If the steering feel isn't progressive with speed, then there may be a problem with the power steering computer. Some dealer's shop needs to dig into this further. It's just not normal.

[DaRacerz]

Do you feel the steering gets heavier as you speed? Should it? Because I'm sure mine does not. I feel it's the same loosness around the center at any speed. Of course at highway speeds I only turn the wheel very slightly so I can't tell exactly about full turns. But for the small adjustments I can assure the steering is as heavy as when the car just barely moves.

Not exactly sure, but I think your description sounds accurate. The steering is heavier at higher speeds. Though, when talking within the 10-15 degree's off center the response feels very similar to slow speeds and does very little at all about going back to the center point.

Let us know how that electric steering mod works if you try it out. I'd be curious to know.

[kardanial]

One thing I would ask to have changed out of manufacture spec is the caster setting if its possible. It could be set very neutral causing the easy movement out of center.

today I went back to the dealer, he informed me that caster settings cannot be changed on virtually any of todays modern vehicles. They can only play with camber and toe. I test drove an is250 awd (mine is the rear wheel drive only) and the steering felt much better to me. But the service manager tested both cars and told me for him both are the same. Then the technician test drove my car and tried to convince me again that this is how the cars are designed. When I tried to insist on checking the car again, both service manager and technician agreed they have to charge me $110.- if I insist on realignment since it was done before. And if I want to induce more toe in or negative camber I have to sign a paper that I'll be resposible for any premature damage that might happen to brakes, tires or suspension components!!! How rude. Tomorrow I'll take it to my local mechanic. Wish me luck

[bartkat]

One thing that may not be the cause but would make the problem worse would be tires with off center belts or conicity. They'll pull to one side. If you happened to have two on one axle pulling in opposite directions, the car would not run straight. There were problems with some IS cars produced with Dunlops and those tires were replaced.

[junkjar17]

I am fairly to the forum, as I am reading this quote, I realize that this is happening to my IS also. I recently bought my IS 250 RWD few weeks ago.

When driving on the freeway, I sways alot like kardanial described. Driving on surface street is fine, it handles great on turns and all. I guess when it starts hitting 45 mph and up, it'll start swaying really bad. It seems like the alignment is off but the car is fairly new. I think it is dangerous at times when swaying back and forth at 70 mph on the freeway.

It can also go straight if I make it go straight but after a short distance it will start swaying.

Let me know if you can fix this ordeal.

junkjar17

[kardanial]

I am fairly to the forum, as I am reading this quote, I realize that this is happening to my IS also. I recently bought my IS 250 RWD few weeks ago.

When driving on the freeway, I sways alot like kardanial described. Driving on surface street is fine, it handles great on turns and all. I guess when it starts hitting 45 mph and up, it'll start swaying really bad. It seems like the alignment is off but the car is fairly new. I think it is dangerous at times when swaying back and forth at 70 mph on the freeway.

It can also go straight if I make it go straight but after a short distance it will start swaying.

Let me know if you can fix this ordeal.

junkjar17

I fixed the ordeal, after numerus readings on electric steering turns out toyota prius, corolla, saturn vue, chevy malibu, all have same problem reported in magazines as car and driver... I finally found someone to take over the lease and lease a BMW 328i. What a difference, sorry guys.

[Randy&Bonnie]

..

[NicLX470]

Never have I experienced a problem like this with my IS350 and I traded in my 350Z for it. Which is the twin sister of the G35 Coupe. Although I do agree that with the Z even with 60mph wind gusts the car never ever budged on the road. I think you just need to get used to driving a normal car again. These 4 door cars are higher than the Z/G35 and are not sports cars. Though I haven't had a problem yet with my IS350. And I often drive one handed at 12 o'clock. I hope you enjoy the service department at the BMW dealership. Sorry to say you will be visiting them often.

[johnch]

I've noticed with my 2008/IS350 that if I keep a tight grip on the sterring wheel in windy conditions it may "feel" like I'm fighting it. Correcting, over-correcting, correcting, etc. I've found a light grip and not worrying too much about the wind seems to work better. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else. Of course that doesn't mean that will help the OP who may have a legetimate mechanical problem.

JohnCh

[bartkat]

No problems in 3 years with my IS350

[BillyShaft]

I've noticed with my 2008/IS350 that if I keep a tight grip on the sterring wheel in windy conditions it may "feel" like I'm fighting it. Correcting, over-correcting, correcting, etc. I've found a light grip and not worrying too much about the wind seems to work better. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else. Of course that doesn't mean that will help the OP who may have a legetimate mechanical problem.

JohnCh

Very much like flying a plane...light touch, two fingers, dont fight it. My instructor used to beat me up about my "Death Grip" on the yoke.

[SW03ES]

I fixed the ordeal, after numerus readings on electric steering turns out toyota prius, corolla, saturn vue, chevy malibu, all have same problem reported in magazines as car and driver... I finally found someone to take over the lease and lease a BMW 328i. What a difference, sorry guys.

My Toyota Prius is fine too...

[smooth1]

After thinking about this for a bit, I wonder if the tires were directional patterned and were mounted on backwards, or had thier staggered set up rotated? Hmm, I wonder what that ride would be like? lol!!

[bartkat]

After thinking about this for a bit, I wonder if the tires were directional patterned and were mounted on backwards, or had thier staggered set up rotated? Hmm, I wonder what that ride would be like? lol!!

Even non directional radials are squirrely for a while if you turn them around.