Honest Opinions About The Ls430

[HobokenGuy]

I currently own a 2000 S 500 which I absolutely hate, and I am starting to look for either an Acura RL or a LS 430.

Has anyone had experience with the Lexus certified warranty? Is it true that the dealer will give out a loaner car eventhough you didn't buy the vehicle there?

All feedback will be greatly appreciated. After an Audi A8 and a S class (both have been reliability nightmares) it's time to move on.

Thanks in advance.

[RFeldes]

I can tell you that during the service of my used 430 I was given a new loaner....and mine is not cpo nor did I purchase from a Dealer...I too have had Mercedes, BMW etc,etc and this was the best service Department of them all... Like I was a lifelong customer..and they are proud of it..you will be impressed..not only with the Automobile but what backs it up as well. You also won't be seeing the service department that much. Good Luck on your search ;)

[92silverls400]

Took my 00 LS400 back to dealership twice, dealership has given me a loaner twice already with no problems. Can't complaint at this time, and they did correct my problems the first time.

[SRK]

I bought both my Lexus from dealers in another city, and when I go to the local dealer, I get a loaner Lexus every time. They even advise to not put gas in it unless I have gone on a roadtrip. "Just bring it back", they say.

It's part of the Lexus philosophy to garner long term customers.

The RL is nice, but get an LS. Rear drive, big enough to be competent at everything, quiet, smooth, the list goes on. You will not regret it. If you find a good price on one without CPO get it anyways - as long as it has been serviced and not abused, used LS's are as good as anyone elses new cars - even better some would say.

[SW03ES]

The loaner policies are unique to each dealer, but I've never used a dealer I didn't get a loaner from, I get loaners for oil changes even and I don't use the dealer I purchased from (its too far away). Most dealers will give ALL Lexus customers a Lexus loaner, whether you have a 2007 LS460 or a 1990 ES250.

As for the CPO warranty, I personally think its overrated. A warranty for the car costs $2,000 tops from Lexus, and the difference between private party and a CPO car is more like $5,000. They'll do the inspection on any Lexus for about $250. I'd concentrate on finding a car with a good maintenance history and low mileage and buy it and not focus so much on exclusively CPO.

As for the RL vs the LS430, it wouldn't be a hard choice for me. The LS is more solid, RWD, has a V8, its larger inside, and it has much better resale. I wouldn't even look at an RL when shopping for an LS, when shopping for a GS sure but not an LS. You might want to look at a Q45, but they're not on par with the LS either.

The LS might not be as prestigious as the S class, but it will serve you well for far longer. My only suggestion is get an 04+ if you can, they made a LOT of improvements n 04 both in appearance and substance that, IMHO, makes the LS430 a more appealing vehicle. I'd rather have a 98-00 LS400 than an 01-03 LS430 from a styling standpoint, but the 04-06 is much more appealing.

[HobokenGuy]

You Lexus owners seem like a cheery bunch. Over in the Merc forum, we are all angry, and in denial about our problematic cars.

I love the responses so far, and I am definately taking notes. As far as the RL is concerned, my only gripe is there is no V8 or RWD. As far as the presteige thing...I had an 81 Cadillac Seville with 230,000 miles on it for my high school beater, and that car never ever gave me a bit of trouble. To me, that's prestiege in itself!

[SKperformance]

I would call around and find out there policies.

I have an LS and ES neither bought form a dealer but i am good friends with the whole dealership . I had some work done over the past few days and for the first time in any Canadian dealer i was given a free loaner. It was only a ES330 but was an amazing touch to feel important.

I like CPO cars as it saves time looking for the better treated cars .

[90LS400]

I have a 1990 LS400 and have always received a loaner car from my local dealer when I go there for service, diagnostics, etc.

This is not the dealer that sold the car.

So far, I've driven the 2005 GS and the 2006 ES as loaners.

[SW03ES]

My dealer has ES350s (they replaced all but one of their ES330s), RX330s and 350s, IS250 AWDs, GS300s, and two RX400h exclusively for hybrid customers.

It makes it feel much more worth the cost for Lexus service when I can drive something different I've been wanting to try. I had the new ES350 last time, I had the IS250 this time and I'll try a new RX350 next time.

[05silverls430]

I agree. Get the LS. I would rather have my '03 LS430 than the NEW RL. I wouldn't even consider the old RL. Keep in mind that's a big car for a V6 engine.

I totally agree with SW03ES on the appearance. I'm kicking myself that I didn't figure out some way to get an '04-'05, as they look SO much better than the '01-'03. But bottom line is it is a great car, and should serve me (and the next owner) for many years to come.

BTW, did you have the V8-6-4 in your '81 Seville? I've heard nothing but problems on those engines, which is why Caddy changed to the 4.1 liter in '82.

Good luck with the LS! You won't be disappointed!

[jainla]

Coming from the S-Class you wil probably find the RL too small (it's more of an E/5 Series size). The LS is substantially larger inside, faster and amazingly almost as fuel efficient--and with dealers clearing out the LS430 in anticipation of the LS460 I bet you can get a great deal.

When I was looking for a car to replace my indestructible Mercedes 240D the LS was the only car that had good as or better build quality. The C320 and E320 that I drove felt like Chryslers inside in comparison, and the 2000-06 S-Classes aren't that much nicer if I recall. They just don't make them like they used to. :(

I agree with Steve that the snob factor with the LS is not as high as the S Class, but everybody who actually gets into the car is amazed by how beautifully put together and comfortable it is. If you get the Ultra Luxury Package fuggedaboutit...passengers will never leave the heated, massaging rear seats and they will drink everything out of the fridge. Just make sure they wipe up the drool and clean out the empty Pellegrino bottles when they do leave (this is a constant problem). :D

I was also amazed by the dealer service--when I stopped by the pre-owned lot at Lexus of Santa Monica the only LS430 they had was on the showroom floor. THEY OPENED THE DOORS AND PULLED IT OUT FOR ME without a second thought so I could drive it. I must say all the dealerships I visited were nothing but courteous (Lexus of Valencia tried to stuff me with fresh baked cookies before I left).

The car I actually bought is a non-CPO car from a non-Lexus dealer, and when I brought it into the dealer for service they apologized--apparently they were so busy that day that the only loaner they had left was an immaculate RX330 with about 4500 miles on it. 'Was that ok?' they asked me. And when I came back they apologised again as I would have to 'wait' while the car came back from the wash. The 'wait' was about 5 minutes (didn't have time to finish my coffee) and the car was spotless. Next time I'm hoping for a GS or an IS. :P

These cars are so reliable however (the LS400/430 has placed 1st in the JDP 5 year dependability survey every year it's been eligible) that you won't see the service dept very much at all.. Lexus claims a 5 year old LS is more reliable than a NEW 7 series or S Class and I believe it..

But if you really want the full Lexus experience ignore everything we've said and go to www.tasteoflexus.com and register for the NY one in October in Belmont Park. There you can have some nice food, a massage, play some golf while your wife/daughter has mani/pedi, and also drive every Lexus car and truck in a little roadcourse (or off-road course). You can also drive some featured competitors (this is the launch year for the LS460 so expect the 7 Series, S550 and maybe an A8). And you can do all of this for FREE without a single sales person in sight and then decide for yourself.

[HobokenGuy]

I will definately have to check out the Belmont rally out on the Island...sounds like it's a great time.

My first and last Merc rally was up in ultra-exclusive Alpine, NJ. My then-girlfriend and I decided to leave after 30 minutes do to the stuffy attitudes, and how nobody wants to hear about anything negative about Mercedes-Benz. LOL, that pretty much made me disqualified from any discussion.

Once the lawsuit gels with MB, I think I will be leaning towards an 04-06 LS430 or a Q45 (my business partner talked me out of the RL and made me drive his Q today). My reservation with the Q is that the French have their nicotine stained fingers in Nissan, so that makes me a little angry.

[jainla]

I really wanted to drive a Q45 but I couldn't find any in the pre-owned market here. :( It's certainly a distinctive car though, and I bet you could get a great deal b/c they don't hold their resale value as well as the LS.

The original Q45 was a blast. FYI the current Q is based on the Japanese market Cima/President and doesn't have a Renault bone in its body. Too bad the M45 just changed over; its nicer than the Q inside. I specifically avoided the Infiniti dealership b/c I knew they might be able to sucker me into a brand new one....I hear it's fantastic.

Drive an LS and let us know how they compare....

[SW03ES]

The other isue with the Q is that it depreciates far more rapidly than the LS. Thats good if you're looking used, bad if you're looking new.

[blake918]

As for the CPO warranty, I personally think its overrated. A warranty for the car costs $2,000 tops from Lexus, and the difference between private party and a CPO car is more like $5,000. They'll do the inspection on any Lexus for about $250. I'd concentrate on finding a car with a good maintenance history and low mileage and buy it and not focus so much on exclusively CPO.

I couldn't agree more! ;)

It's a shame the W220s are so troublesome because I don't think you'll find a better looking 4-door car out there. I have to agree with everyone else, Lexus dealer service is tops, but some dealers are much better than others.

[HobokenGuy]

LEMON-PALOOZA 06 update Hopefully this will get me into the 430

As some of you might or might now know, my S500 went into the shop this morning for the 34th time.

The visit was to get the control arms, ball joints, and bushings replaced again...for the fifth time. As I was driving over to the dealership, my power steering gave out again...for the third time...in 6 days. I pulled the car over and sure enough there was fluid gushing out from underneath the car just as there was last Wednesday, last Saturday morning, and this morning. I get the car off the Jersey Turnpike and on to some back roads for the rest of the trip, and arrived safely (thank God).

I told my service advisor that this vehicle, in my eyes, is unsafe to drive at any speed, condition, or time. He looked at me kinda strangely, and asked me to hang loose near the desk.

A few minutes later the service manager came out and he requested to see the master service history for my car. After he pulled the sixth page out from the printer and read on in disbelief, he threw me the keys to a 2007 ML350 and said "we will see what we can do". Now, I hate ML's, but this one was really comfortable, and then I started it up... This is a brand new SUV that had only 41 miles on it, and I thought the tranny was going to fall out of this vehicle. Very underpowered, the transmission is downright scary with the rough gear shifts. But enough about the loaner...

I got a phone call about 6 PM tonight from my advisor stating that the problems this car is experiencing very well might be much deeper than any of them expected. What the heck does that mean? He also went on and stated that to get comfortable with the ML since there is a very good chance that I will be driving it for a long while.

This is getting interesting. I am guessing I should be getting a call from someone at corporate soon. Hopefully they will buy this car back so I can get something that is safe and road-worthy.

The saga continues on...

[05silverls430]

LEMON-PALOOZA 06 update Hopefully this will get me into the 430

As some of you might or might now know, my S500 went into the shop this morning for the 34th time.

The visit was to get the control arms, ball joints, and bushings replaced again...for the fifth time. As I was driving over to the dealership, my power steering gave out again...for the third time...in 6 days. I pulled the car over and sure enough there was fluid gushing out from underneath the car just as there was last Wednesday, last Saturday morning, and this morning. I get the car off the Jersey Turnpike and on to some back roads for the rest of the trip, and arrived safely (thank God).

I told my service advisor that this vehicle, in my eyes, is unsafe to drive at any speed, condition, or time. He looked at me kinda strangely, and asked me to hang loose near the desk.

A few minutes later the service manager came out and he requested to see the master service history for my car. After he pulled the sixth page out from the printer and read on in disbelief, he threw me the keys to a 2007 ML350 and said "we will see what we can do". Now, I hate ML's, but this one was really comfortable, and then I started it up... This is a brand new SUV that had only 41 miles on it, and I thought the tranny was going to fall out of this vehicle. Very underpowered, the transmission is downright scary with the rough gear shifts. But enough about the loaner...

I got a phone call about 6 PM tonight from my advisor stating that the problems this car is experiencing very well might be much deeper than any of them expected. What the heck does that mean? He also went on and stated that to get comfortable with the ML since there is a very good chance that I will be driving it for a long while.

This is getting interesting. I am guessing I should be getting a call from someone at corporate soon. Hopefully they will buy this car back so I can get something that is safe and road-worthy.

The saga continues on...

WOW!!! You've had that car since 2003? Just curious, what attracted you to the S Class in the first place? And what year was the A8 that you had? I used to be an Audi person (between my wife and I, we've had 4 of them), however I'm pretty much convinced that I wouldn't buy another one, ESPECIALLY pre-owned.

I hope that MB agrees to buy your S back and end your nightmare...

[jainla]

That's terrible HobokenGuy....I'm glad you made it to the dealership in one piece!

It sounds like the dealer's service dept. doesn't quite know what they are doing. I can't believe MB corporate hasn't bought the car back from you yet...that's unreal. Have you taken it to the same place the whole time? If you haven't called your lawyer I think maybe you should.

You are not alone however, someone told me the buyback rate for the first year of the current E class was about 20% because of the #@$% sensotronic brakes. My 25 year old Mercedes Diesel, which just past 190,000 miles (and took me to work today and back) aches for you.

[HobokenGuy]

My family is a big Merc family. Dad has a S55, sis has a E500 Wagon and mom has a G500. I can remember in the 80's the Merc's were like tanks...nothing would kill them. Now, they have gone the way of the American companies on the 70's and 80's...how sad.

My A8 was a 99...talk about engineering disasters. The cars locks used to lock and unlock for no reason where there was no key in the ignition! Totally possessed. I got rid of it after 7 months.

As far as the dealer is concerned, I've taken this car to Manhattan, Brooklyn, and 3 in Jersey, and all of them have no clue with this car. My attorney said we have a very legit case, but if it goes before a judge, I should expect to wait almost a year before anything comes of it.

[lexuus]

in my opinion your best option is buy a new car now, and keep the S Class parked on the street until corporate buys it back. how are you still putting up with this? it definitely is sucking up your time (dont know about money). in the meantime try to get yourself in the guiness world book of records for most time car has broken down and gone to the shop.

[SW03ES]

My suggestion? Get it running and sell it. S classes are sought after in the used market, my guess is the difference between what you paid and what you get won't be worth all this legal hassle.

[jainla]

My family is a big Merc family. Dad has a S55, sis has a E500 Wagon and mom has a G500. I can remember in the 80's the Merc's were like tanks...nothing would kill them. Now, they have gone the way of the American companies on the 70's and 80's...how sad.

Yes back then everything was made of metal, not plastic. The 240D still starts on the very first crank. I think it will outlive us all.

:chairshot:

Mercedes has paid dearly for it's increased sales and move downmarket. It's very sad...but that's what happens when a car company is run by marketing guys instead of engineers.

I read somewhere that we are currently suffering some kind of automotive identity crisis:

"In these homogenous automotive times, the ethnic motorcar has become seriously blurred. For German precision and reliability, we buy Japanese; for Japanese thrift at the cost of style, we buy from Detroit; and for Detroit pizazz and over-the-top performance, we go to the Germans."

That's from the NYT review of the Maserati Quattroporte, which they said is still resolutely Italian (FIAT= Fix It Again Tony?)

[lexuus]

My suggestion? Get it running and sell it. S classes are sought after in the used market, my guess is the difference between what you paid and what you get won't be worth all this legal hassle.

Used S Classes are sought after mainly because they go pretty cheap. i doubt he would get much money for it right now considering its a 2000 and probably has more than 60 thousand miles. also no one is going to want to look at it if they find out about its history and chances are it will break down on a test drive! i think hes better off keeping it parked until mercedes buys it back.

[SW03ES]

*If* Mercedes buys it back, they're under no obligation to. Used vehicles are not subject to lemon law.

[HobokenGuy]

I thought the same thing, but since the car is still under extended factory warranty, they are liable, per my attorney. He said it varies state by state rule.