irieblue Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I am trying to decide between the new 2007 RX 350 and the 2006 RX 400h. I test drove both last week , although unfortunately not on the same day. My observation is that the 400h is slightly more quiet on the HWY at 65 MPH than the new RX 350, Just wondering if anyone could provide any insight on if this is 'expected" i.e 400h should be more quiet than RX **350* (not RX 330 ). Any idea when lexus is going to upgrade the NAV in the 400h to 5th Generation. The one nice feature on the RX 350 is that the screen on the 5th gen NAV is 800x480 with 32000 Colors vs the RX 400h's NAV @400x240 with 256 Colors . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 The hybrid system is what makes the 400h quieter on the highway. The screen will be updated in 07 for thr 400h I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Lexus was worried that the electric motor whine would make the 400h sound like a golf cart so they threw in more sound insulation than usual. So i would expect the 400h to remain somewhat quieter. The rx350 did get the laminated windshield from the hybrid car and that does cut sound 2 db at highway speeds making it quieter than the 330. In addition to the improved nav and crt display, they also got rid of the tourque steer issue under hard acceleration, and hopefully improved the transmission over the 330. (the 400h cvt trans is great). With that new engine in the 350 and the other improvements i would have to say it is a hard choice. The other part of the equasion as i see it is timing. Right now there is starting to be an oversupply of 400h's on dealer lots, i counted fifteen on the lot in tacoma last week when i was in for a lube. Its clear you can pick your color, options and they are ready to deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irieblue Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I like the CVT transmission, it does seem smooth no matter what the driving environment (around town, on the HWY). I am going to go test drive the Nissan Murano (with the CVT transmission ) as a comparasion this week. If the RX 350 had a CVT (transmission) that would be a no brainer for me, in deciding over the 400h. Still this is turning out to be a tough choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Personally, i would get the 350 for a couple of reasons. Long term wise, i think it would be cheaper than the hybrid. It will take at least 10 years + to gain back the difference in price from the gasoline savings. Also, i like the wood trim in cars instead of the aluminum...just my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanB Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Of course as a 400h owner I am biased, but are we somehow forgetting the pollution factor here? Forget the mileage comparisons, its the CO2 output numbers that are drastically different. These two cars have essentially nothing in common about their pollution profiles, which I would hope, is a component of your decision process. Don't get me wrong, I just sold my Expedition 4x4 for the 400h, so I know how to use gas, but the technology is available now to make a difference, at little incremental cost (you can get a fully loaded RX400h without RSES for under 45K now). I would be nice to have the higher res Nav., but you'll have to wait until the '07 RX400h comes back down in price once introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCB Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I love the CVT. Never have to feel the gears shifting. Plus, dont forget your tax credit. I think it went up in 2006. And you live in Cali I see - can't all Cali Hybrid cars drive in the HOV lanes regardless of number of passengers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statman Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Personally, i would get the 350 for a couple of reasons. Long term wise, i think it would be cheaper than the hybrid. It will take at least 10 years + to gain back the difference in price from the gasoline savings. Also, i like the wood trim in cars instead of the aluminum...just my opinions. I just got $2000 federal and $3736 state tax write-off...let's see that would make it cheaper than the RX330! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I love the CVT. Never have to feel the gears shifting. Plus, dont forget your tax credit. I think it went up in 2006. And you live in Cali I see - can't all Cali Hybrid cars drive in the HOV lanes regardless of number of passengers? No it does not, only three cars apply to that. The toyota prius, honda civic and the honda insight. lol Personally, i would get the 350 for a couple of reasons. Long term wise, i think it would be cheaper than the hybrid. It will take at least 10 years + to gain back the difference in price from the gasoline savings. Also, i like the wood trim in cars instead of the aluminum...just my opinions. I just got $2000 federal and $3736 state tax write-off...let's see that would make it cheaper than the RX330! Lol we dont get all those taxes here in california. And just a side note, isnt there more horsepower in the 350 now, 270 versus 268 or something lol. So lets get this straight, it is roughly the same price, ill give you that, but the rx350 has a jaw dropping two more horsepower and wood trim. So yes, if you want to save the environment, then get the hybrid. Tho, the 350 is a ULEV and also gets just maybe under 6 miles per gallon. And no, that would NOT be cheaper than a rx350. Cheapest base price for the hybrid $45,355 versus the two wheel drive rx330 (currently) $37,400. so thats a difference of more than 5000 in which you saved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statman Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Lol we dont get all those taxes here in california. You don't get all those taxes??? Do you pay federal? And just a side note, isnt there more horsepower in the 350 now, 270 versus 268 or something lol. So lets get this straight, it is roughly the same price, ill give you that, but the rx350 has a jaw dropping two more horsepower and wood trim. So yes, if you want to save the environment, then get the hybrid. Tho, the 350 is a ULEV and also gets just maybe under 6 miles per gallon. And no, that would NOT be cheaper than a rx350. Cheapest base price for the hybrid $45,355 versus the two wheel drive rx330 (currently) $37,400. so thats a difference of more than 5000 in which you saved According to car & driver the price difference is $4-5K...comparing apples to apples: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...2&page_number=1 All I know is when I compared them at the dealer the price difference was about $4K. Oh yeah that's AWD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 sigh, why look at car and driver when you can see the prices online at lexus.com You can probably go out to buy a 330 for relatively cheap because they want to make room for the new cars. and i specifically said, we dont get ALL those taxes, its just like a tax break or something. thats not the point tho, i guess, the point is that they are now the same car, except one is more powerful and cheaper and the other is a "cool" hybrid that will help the world. btw, that site from car and driver is one year old, and it says that the price is 45K estimated...that was before the car even came out. oh and i thot of another reason why you should go for the Rx350. Its going to be the least likely model to get changed out of the two within the nexdt 4 years or so. the next thing you know, there will be a more powerful hybrid, and then that car will be out of date, i think faster than the rx350 will be. Plus, i feel that there are some cool stuff on the regular rx that are not available on the hybrid, i know i enjoy my air suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irieblue Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 ... Plus, i feel that there are some cool stuff on the regular rx that are not available on the hybrid, i know i enjoy my air suspension Hmm, Unfortunately the dealers in Northern California (I have been to 2 of them) say that the Air Suspension and Laser Cruise Control options are not available (on the west coast). In fact the configurations for the RX are basically one of three packages. Std, Std+NAV, Std+ML+RSES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I'd get the RX400h simply because its more unique. RXs are everywhere, and the 400h stands out with the new graphite wheels, the unique front end, and the LED tails. I think its a much "cooler" vehicle. On top of that driving the 400h with all that torque and the seamless transmission is enough to never make you want to drive a "normal" car again. Remember this is a luxury car, its not only about which choice is the absolute cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCB Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Performance is nearly equal, with a slight edge for the 400h. 400h AWD: 0-60 in 7.3 350 AWD: 0-60 in 7.4 And like SW03ES mentions above...do you really think any of us care about which one is a few thousand cheaper? Why don't we all just go buy Highlanders if we want to worry about price. An extra few thousand dollars on a $45,000 vehicle means nothing to most Lexus owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 ... Plus, i feel that there are some cool stuff on the regular rx that are not available on the hybrid, i know i enjoy my air suspension Hmm, Unfortunately the dealers in Northern California (I have been to 2 of them) say that the Air Suspension and Laser Cruise Control options are not available (on the west coast). In fact the configurations for the RX are basically one of three packages. Std, Std+NAV, Std+ML+RSES. lol, i live in california, and i have the air suspension. Okay, if price isnt an option, then i must say there are a few things that i dont like on the 400h. I hate the round fog lights, like the ones on the hilander. Also, i dont really like those rims, i prefer the graphite ones on the 330, and possibly the 350 if they are the same ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX400h Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 According Car & Driver, * The RX400h has, because of its very powerful electric motors, 650 lbs-ft of torque. That's more than double that of the RX350. * The RX400h ran 0-60 in 6.9 seconds - significantly faster than the RX350, probably because of its massive torque at low rpm. * The RX400h averages more than 5 MPG higher than the RX350H, according to Consumer Reports. In big-city conditions, this will be at least 7 MPG, according to comparisons I've observed locally. In fact, our RX400 averages 25+ MPG, compared to 16 MPG from two RX330s belonging to former coworkers. The higher the traffic density you encounter on a normal basis, the larger the fuel mileage spread will be between the two vehicles. Of course, if you live out in the country, don't have to drive into the city everyday (in other words, you are retired), and can cruise along at 65 MPH when you do venture out, the biggest difference now becomes the superior CVT transmission in the 400 and its monster torque. Only you can decide whether the extra money is well spent. As for me, driving a hybrid SUV has spoiled me for life. Not having to gas up every week is one of life's simple pleasures after driving a van for 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonATL Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I doubt I will ever buy a conventional gasoline engine only auto again. As DeanB points out, the difference in emissions is enormous. The power of the 400h should be at least equal to, if not better than. The other appointments (setting aside a few months of waiting for the upgraded NAV) are equal. Styling is individual preference. I agree with SW03ES -- I like the unique wheels, grill, and fog lights. To me, the sheen of the wheels is much preferred to the bland aluminum matte. So, the only difference is a few thousand -- today. All calculations of difference that I've seen have implicitly assumed the same trade-in value for the h. I don't have any data on this, but neither does anyone else. So, it is just as possible that the h brings a premium on the used market. THis would make the cost of ownership a wash or possibly favor the h (depending on the price of gas and the value one places on the time spent at the pump). Someone's logic above was that the h would be outdated soon, since it was more likely to be "updated." This logic is almost laughable, given that we're talking about the RX330 moving to an RX350 after only two years. The trend in the world is moving towards hybrid or alternative fuels. Hybrids are the latest tech. Yes, it will improve. But, Toyota's is amazingly advanced. How many more folks that have driven a hybrid will swear off gas-only? Has anyone driven a hybrid and said, "I'll never get a hybrid again?" Probably. But my guess is that it is far more heavily weighted toward the former. Buy the h. You'll never regret it. If you buy the 350, it is likely (especially given that you are even considering the h) that you'll regret it and wonder, "should I have gotten the 400h?" or, "What am I missing?" If you buy the h, you'll never wonder what you're missing -- because all you'll be missing is worse performance and gobs of emissions (and plenty of wasted gasoline). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I doubt I will ever buy a conventional gasoline engine only auto again. As DeanB points out, the difference in emissions is enormous. The power of the 400h should be at least equal to, if not better than. The other appointments (setting aside a few months of waiting for the upgraded NAV) are equal. Styling is individual preference. I agree with SW03ES -- I like the unique wheels, grill, and fog lights. To me, the sheen of the wheels is much preferred to the bland aluminum matte. So, the only difference is a few thousand -- today. All calculations of difference that I've seen have implicitly assumed the same trade-in value for the h. I don't have any data on this, but neither does anyone else. So, it is just as possible that the h brings a premium on the used market. THis would make the cost of ownership a wash or possibly favor the h (depending on the price of gas and the value one places on the time spent at the pump). Someone's logic above was that the h would be outdated soon, since it was more likely to be "updated." This logic is almost laughable, given that we're talking about the RX330 moving to an RX350 after only two years. The trend in the world is moving towards hybrid or alternative fuels. Hybrids are the latest tech. Yes, it will improve. But, Toyota's is amazingly advanced. How many more folks that have driven a hybrid will swear off gas-only? Has anyone driven a hybrid and said, "I'll never get a hybrid again?" Probably. But my guess is that it is far more heavily weighted toward the former. Buy the h. You'll never regret it. If you buy the 350, it is likely (especially given that you are even considering the h) that you'll regret it and wonder, "should I have gotten the 400h?" or, "What am I missing?" If you buy the h, you'll never wonder what you're missing -- because all you'll be missing is worse performance and gobs of emissions (and plenty of wasted gasoline). \ i wasnt saying specifically that "hybrids" will be outdated. Im saying that the model number will be the first thing next to be changed in the rx line. Thats because its now the rx350 and soon, before you know it, it will be the rx450H and so on. Im just saying, it is the least likely that the rx350 will change badge numbers before the hybrid. Oh and i loved your unbiased views :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Okay, if price isnt an option, then i must say there are a few things that i dont like on the 400h. I hate the round fog lights, like the ones on the hilander. Also, i dont really like those rims, i prefer the graphite ones on the 330, and possibly the 350 if they are the same ;) Thats your opinion, but personally I'd never consider buying an RX330 or 350, too vanilla, I'd choose an FX35 over one every time. The 400h however is unique and special, I would buy a 400h. Have you driven one? Its such a superior driving experience than the 330 it makes the $5000 seem like a bargain. A new motor isn't going to change that. I do agree however that it was short sighted of Lexus to create a superior performance RX hybrid and then upgrade the base vehicle to be just as quick after not even a year. Thats gonna *BLEEP* off a LOT of people and they will have to make the 400h more powerful at some point soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonATL Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Oh and i loved your unbiased views :P Guilty! I fully expect the majority that drive a 400h to be biased. That's the point. Those of us who have an h are heavily biased. We love our 400h's. I'm waiting to see all of the posts from those who had the choice of a 400h and chose the 330 (or 350) and why. For those people, I expect that it comes down to $$. For me, the tradeoff was a no-brainer for all the reasons stated. I'm sure that an RX330 owner would be unbiased on this issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Money and fear of the hybrid components lifespan are the only reasons one could have to purchase a 330 over a 400h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irieblue Posted March 9, 2006 Author Share Posted March 9, 2006 Money and fear of the hybrid components lifespan are the only reasons one could have to purchase a 330 over a 400h. Since I started this thread, I can chime in that cost differences and Saving the environment are *NOT* deciding factors for me. The factors which I am currently weighing are... The pros for the 400h. (1) It is a quieter vehicle (2) The CVT transmission is incredible (3) The AC being electric allows me to have the AC running (with the gas engine "off") The pros for the RX 350 (1) It's got more Power than the Hybrid (More like why bother with the extra complexity of the Synergy drive-- where's the Synergy in that!!!). I am not carting SHAQ O'neil (Basketball Player) around everewhere I go... The 400h is about 350 lbs *heavier* than the RX 350 (2) The 5th gen NAV displays 300% more information (Pixel wise) (3) It's an evolved design , where they have hopefully incorporated feedback from two previous designs. My driving environment is mainly HWY driving with very little Stop and Go traffic, and we average less than 15,000 miles per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Money and fear of the hybrid components lifespan are the only reasons one could have to purchase a 330 over a 400h. (3) The AC being electric allows me to have the AC running (with the gas engine "off") My AC can turn on with the gas engine off Oh, and yes, i must say, when the hybrid came out, i was like, where do i trade in, but both cars im sure are great. To be honest, im sure the 400H is a better car, but theres absolutely nothing wrong with the 350, or 330 for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfish400h Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The pros for the RX 350 (3) It's an evolved design , where they have hopefully incorporated feedback from two previous designs. So is the new 3.5 v6 an engine that has a proven track record or is it a complely new engine? I might think of this as more of a Con than a Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The pros for the RX 350 (3) It's an evolved design , where they have hopefully incorporated feedback from two previous designs. So is the new 3.5 v6 an engine that has a proven track record or is it a complely new engine? I might think of this as more of a Con than a Pro. actually, its the same engine in the new avalon...so its relatively new...like a year old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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