Insulted On Trade In Value

[dcfish]

First: Am I nuts for considering trading a lexus for a ford? Second: Are they nuts thinking my car is worth only 18K?

Yes, you're going from most reliable to least reliable <_< Ford and chevy are the worst cars you can buy.

i hate it when people make ignorant statements...

So do I, so you really need to stop making them escort boy

Nice...you know how many lexus/toyota cars i have been under the hood of? you need to pull your head out of your 4th point of contact before you get this thread locked. you got something to say to me, do it via PM's. I have been working on cars since before i could see over the hood. your knowledge is based off of other peoples experience and what magazines and news tells you, i make my desicisions based off of personal experience.

in fact, the last time i owned a lexus, i went off of what other people said "oh its 15 years old, sure it will have its problems, but will be largely trouble free" was the basick jist...$5,000 and 4 months later...

I was rebuilding engines when i was 10. im 21 now. 11 years of rebuilding engines, and about 14 years of working on cars.

better think before you speak next time.

A class act you are...

oh and FWIW, i dont exactly drive easy, so thats not the reason...

You're correct it was an ignorant statement! I and every magazine, report, artice and person who contributed in surveys that said ford and chevy are the worst cars should have consulted you before that vote was cast. Your mature and logical facts have shown me the error of my ways. Your escort is the cherry on top of the cake and should be the driving force behind all fords new ads and you as an "army of one" owe it to america and the world to educate everyone, as you've educated me that because your escort has given you no problems then Ford must be the greatest automaker on earth. Like my mazda mx6 that I bought new in 94 made by ford and has given me 0 problems because I meticulously maintain it myself. Although many others who bought the MX6 had distrubutor failures and left the owners stranded, hey but not mine, so it must not count. Maybe with your vigilence ford won't have to close it's Explorer plant because of decline in customer sales of the explorer line and they won't have to move to mexico, like GM already did. You will be the one to turn around the Ford line, you could be the what Lee Iococa was to Chrysler. Go forth and tell everyone young man, your future awaits. Then come back in 15 years and talk to me once you have some experience and knowledge in the big oval thing on top of your shoulders, that is if you can find any room in there for it. While you're at it why don't you get a little more worked up over what someone says about a POS car, keyboard warrior. Since that must be your only enjoyment in life. Get a life and a girlfriend, your car doesn't count.

Oh and I found this just for you. There's plenty more where this came from. Aren't I sweet? :D

General Motors Corp. and Hyundai Motor Co. did surprisingly well in annual rankings by Consumer Reports magazine, joining perennial favorites Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. The big losers: Ford Motor Co. and Mercedes-Benz, the luxury brand of DaimlerChrysler AG.

Toyota, including the Toyota and Lexus brands, had 20 vehicles recommended by Consumer Reports out of 25 models rated. Honda, including the Acura brand, earned recommended ratings for 10 out of 14 models evaluated. GM placed 13 models on the magazine's recommended list out of 48 evaluated, its best showing to date.

Consumer Reports , which has influenced car buyers for decades, recommended just five Ford vehicles -- including two from its Volvo unit -- out of 32 evaluated. The magazine's editors said they have seen a steady decline in the number of recommended Ford vehicles since 1999.

"It's all reliability that brings them down," said David Champion, head of the magazine's auto-test facility, who noted Ford's showing was the worst since he joined the magazine in 1997. Meanwhile, Mercedes received no recommendations and its reliability was third worst of all the brands. Mr. Champion said that while DaimlerChrysler seems to be improving reliability at Chrysler, it has "left their own shop bare." Often reliability issues involve power equipment such as windows, locks and seats as well as electrical problems. European auto makers generally aren't keeping pace with the reliability improvements of the domestic and Japanese brands, he added.

One of the big turnaround stories has been Hyundai. Mr. Champion said the South Korean auto maker had been one of the worst in the survey a decade ago. During the past three years, its reliability has continued to improve and its 2002 model-year vehicles were tied with those of Honda for second place in reliability.

The magazine, now in its 50th year of rating automobiles, holds remarkable sway over consumer purchasing decisions. Many buyers insist on checking with the magazine before buying a vehicle. Nearly 10% of buyers a month away from purchasing a vehicle use it as their primary source of information, second only to advice of a friend or relative, at 14%, according to CNW Marketing Research. "There is probably nothing else as a single entity that holds as much influence as Consumer Reports does," Art Spinella of CNW says.

In addition to the recommendations, GM earned two "best picks," the magazine's top honor, for its Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck and the Pontiac Vibe (which shared the honor with the vehicle's twin, the Toyota Matrix). They were the Detroit company's first top picks. Two years ago, GM received 11 recommendations, but last year that number dwindled to four.

One sore spot for the world's largest auto maker: Cadillac, which may be making a sales comeback, but had the worst reliability of all major auto brands.

GM spokesman Tom Wickham noted that the reliability rankings were done on three-year-old vehicles, and the auto maker has done much to improve quality in the past two years. Consumer Reports agreed, noting that several GM trucks showed improved reliability. "We have great expectations that Cadillac products will be rising up the ranks," Mr. Wickham said.

Honda garnered five of the magazine's coveted "top pick" designations, its best showing since the magazine began the best-in-class designations in 1997. Toyota lost two of its best picks, earning just two this year, its worst showing since 1999.

Reliability scores come from the magazine's survey of approximately 3.5 million subscribers, about 480,000 of whom responded. Consumer Reports subscribers are older, richer and better educated than the population as a whole. Some two-thirds are men. The six-page survey, which asks readers to judge everything from their vacuum cleaner to automobile to restaurant chains, in the past has drawn criticism from auto makers.

This year auto firms seemed more reluctant to criticize the magazine's methodology. Ford, which last year questioned the minimum sample size for each model (100), this year limited comments to a written statement that said "quality is Ford Motor Co.'s highest priority." (Ford, of Dearborn, Mich., also included its Japanese affiliate Mazda, of which it owns a third, in its results, thus boosting the number of recommended vehicles from five to nine.)

Don Dees, vice president for quality for Chrysler Group, says Consumer Reports results generally track the company's own quality data. "Consumer Reports is a very good metric for us to look at as a company," he says.

Mercedes spokesman Fred Heiler noted that the questions are vague and don't make a "distinction between a squeak or a rattle or an engine or transmission falling out on the road." Mr. Heiler believes Mercedes's poor reliability results often are linked to added technology that the German-U.S. auto maker has included in the vehicle that owners often don't know how to use, so they assume it is flawed.

The Passat supplied the only good news for Volkswagen AG, with its six-cylinder version garnering a best pick for the sixth year in a row in the family-sedan category. Otherwise, the German auto maker's reliability was panned, even in its Audi luxury lineup, which earned no recommendations.

Reputation: Toyota has, by now, had a lifetime to cement its reputation among American consumers for nearly fool-proof quality. GM (Research) and Ford (Research) spent nearly as long honing a reputation for not caring much about quality. Things may have improved, but it takes a long time for that to sink in.

Recalls: GM, in particular, has had a problem with headline-making recalls. It's a big company, it sells a lot of vehicles and they share a lot of components. When one of those parts goes wrong, eye-popping numbers of vehicles can be affected. That doesn't mean the vehicles are unreliable. Recalls are a different sort of problem. But it does cause concerns.

Reviews: GM and Ford vehicles haven't always exuded the quality that may have been hiding in there somewhere. Cheap-feeling interior materials, raspy-sounding engines and gap-filled construction didn't give potential buyers the feeling of confidence that even lesser Japanese brands manage to carry off.

Both GM and Ford are making strides in this area, too. Some recent GM and Ford products should go a long way to correcting the image of throwaway construction.

GM and Ford deserve credit for what they've done so far. But American consumers have shown they still need lots more proof.

NO NEED TO REPLY I'M DONE :P

I don't blame you Turbo , Some members just know everything ,

[ArmyofOne]

First: Am I nuts for considering trading a lexus for a ford? Second: Are they nuts thinking my car is worth only 18K?

Yes, you're going from most reliable to least reliable <_< Ford and chevy are the worst cars you can buy.

i hate it when people make ignorant statements...

So do I, so you really need to stop making them escort boy

Nice...you know how many lexus/toyota cars i have been under the hood of? you need to pull your head out of your 4th point of contact before you get this thread locked. you got something to say to me, do it via PM's. I have been working on cars since before i could see over the hood. your knowledge is based off of other peoples experience and what magazines and news tells you, i make my desicisions based off of personal experience.

in fact, the last time i owned a lexus, i went off of what other people said "oh its 15 years old, sure it will have its problems, but will be largely trouble free" was the basick jist...$5,000 and 4 months later...

I was rebuilding engines when i was 10. im 21 now. 11 years of rebuilding engines, and about 14 years of working on cars.

better think before you speak next time.

A class act you are...

oh and FWIW, i dont exactly drive easy, so thats not the reason...

You're correct it was an ignorant statement! I and every magazine, report, artice and person who contributed in surveys that said ford and chevy are the worst cars should have consulted you before that vote was cast. Your mature and logical facts have shown me the error of my ways. Your escort is the cherry on top of the cake and should be the driving force behind all fords new ads and you as an "army of one" owe it to america and the world to educate everyone, as you've educated me that because your escort has given you no problems then Ford must be the greatest automaker on earth. Like my mazda mx6 that I bought new in 94 made by ford and has given me 0 problems because I meticulously maintain it myself. Although many others who bought the MX6 had distrubutor failures and left the owners stranded, hey but not mine, so it must not count. Maybe with your vigilence ford won't have to close it's Explorer plant because of decline in customer sales of the explorer line and they won't have to move to mexico, like GM already did. You will be the one to turn around the Ford line, you could be the what Lee Iococa was to Chrysler. Go forth and tell everyone young man, your future awaits. Then come back in 15 years and talk to me once you have some experience and knowledge in the big oval thing on top of your shoulders, that is if you can find any room in there for it. While you're at it why don't you get a little more worked up over what someone says about a POS car, keyboard warrior. Since that must be your only enjoyment in life. Get a life and a girlfriend, your car doesn't count.

First off, I just went through a bitter breakup. I am working on a GF at the moment, some of us have to work a little harder to get what we want. I hate people who act like kids, as such, finding a mature cadidate for a GF that meets my standards is, well, a daunting task to say the least.

There is a need to reply. I dont think you understand what I am saying. You read/see what you choose. I HAVE BEEN AROUND CARS MY ENTIRE LIFE AND HAVE PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE WITH THEM. Probably moreso than you. I cant stand people that think just cause I am young means I dont know jack *BLEEP* about anything. Ask Steve, as he and I had this fallout once before (and now get along quite well since we understand each other's views) I HATE stereotypes...with a passion. So dont bring them at me, cause I will throw them back in your face, much like I am about to do. :D

THAT ONE STATEMENT was ignorant. You cannot class all vehciles made by american car makers into an unreliable status. I am simply pointing that out. Just because a cavalier is notorious for being a pile of crap, doesnt mean an escort or a neon is equally so. they do their job fine for what they were designed for. That is a cheap commuter car with a few ounces of fun thrown in. If they didnt do this, does it stand to reason people would still buy them?

I am not BY ANY MEANS stating that my Escort is the best car out there, because its not, by far. (you were the only one that stated this). It has lots of little things that go wrong but do not affect the overall function of the car, but has never given me a major problem, nor has any other ford we have ever had. I bought it because I need RELIABLE, and fuel effeicient transportation (better than the camry, almost 30 mpg in the city), at a cheap price, and the $6,000 pricetag for a 2002 model car fit the bill, and its decent amounts of fun. The LS400 I is what I wanted, but I couldn't find it. And quite frankly, after seeing the amount of salt on the roads here, I'm glad I didn't. The MAIN reasons I bought this car are because it was here, and I needed relaible transportation. BUT, I WOULD LAY MY NEXT CHECK ON THE FACT THAT IF I HAD BOUGHT A SUPRA INSTEAD, I WOULDNT HAVE CAUGHT ANY OF THE FLACK FROM YOU THAT I JUST DID . So now, your opinion means a whole lot of nothing, to me or anyone else.

I DID NOT SAY THAT FORD WAS THE BEST, nor will I ever, Toyota is, we all know that, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THEY DONT BREAK. My mom's camry has had trouble already. 20,000 miles and its leaking oil. ALOT of oil. Going to the dealer tomorrow for a possible rear main seal.

And you know, maybe if american car owners would OWN UP TO IMPROPER maintenance, then Fords and Chevy's could be right alongside the competiton. (or maybe not, ill give you this one, PONTIAC sucks...and they are crossplatformed with GM, their V6 needs HELP with the timing chains). But the tranny failures and headgasket failures that are inherent on the Suburban's/Silverado's/Tahoe's/Escalade's, if owners would not RACE the engine CONSTANTLY and give the transmission service every 30K instead of every 100K, the problem would likely be largely solved. Because they dont have this problem in europe. The drivetrain in the european Ford Cougar is IDENTICAL to the mercury cougar here in the states, and they dont have near the tranny issues over there, BECUASE THEY MAINTAIN THIER CARS.

That doesnt mean there aren't bad ones out there, I'm sure as much reseach as you just did, you won't mind doing some more to find out about the rod bearing faluires in the Ford 2.5L v6 from 1995-2000 due to improper draining of the heads. Come around a cloverleaf and BOOM, no more engine.

Or the chronic auto tranny failures of the Ford CD4E (the automatic transaxle in the automatic version of the very car i drive). Or the ball joit failures on thousands of Dodge Durangos, and Dakota's

OR THE TRANNY PROBLEMS THAT PLAUGUED THE RX300AWD. or the sludge problems that plauged the ES/RX/Camry v6.

See, I can find Toyota's *BLEEP* up's too. If you wanna play that. I'm not stupid, and I know this is a site for non american cars, so maybe I shouldn't be here, only reason I stuck around was to offer some help to other memebers, ESPECAILLY those with ES250's as I ripped into mine to repair it more times than I care to count. I cant tell you how many times I got an email or a call from an estranged member with a problem on their car, and I went out front to tear my own car apart to find the solution. I know I am a valued member here, as has been stated by more than 5 other members that I can think of off hand, so the opinion of 1 member, really doesnt mean that much to me. I could care less of what you think of me. You have now brought personal attacks ONLINE, and that is wrong, according to the forum rules.

Having said all of that, the only major difference between this company (Toyota) and the american compaines is that Toyota acknowledges the oops's, and fixes them largley. While the big 3 continue to make the same mistakes for 5-10 years running.

Get off your high horse please, we all have much we can learn from each other, but you had better get one thing straight...just because I do not drive a Lexus, doesn't mean I am not welcome here.

[Lexusfreak]

Come on guy's, take it easy now......no need for a P***ing contest.

[Toysrme]

TurboGS300

so you really need to stop making them escort boy

It's sad you typed so much after that. Big waste of your time. You'll find that most people won't respect anything you say once you've shown your !Removed!.

Army said your statement was ignorant. It was. It seems to me your only reply is typing just enough to mix some insults in & get by with them.

Anyways, on topic...

When it came down to evaluating my car, the dealership quoted me $18,000 (2001 Gs430 - black, nav, levinson 60k miles). This obviously killed the deal and I walked away. First: Am I nuts for considering trading a lexus for a ford? Second: Are they nuts thinking my car is worth only 18K?

kbb.com:

Trade in

Excellent $22,125

Good $20,815 (Selected)

Fair $18,600

Private Party

Excellent $24,955

Good $23,545 (Selected)

Fair $21,630

They're in line. Sell your car in the paper, you'll have way more pocket money.

AFA trading a GS430 for a new Mustang, whatever floats your boat. The mustang will be infinately faster - in every possible aspect of the word fast for far less money than the GS. It will also be cheaper to own.

Not to mention it's much more stylish. (Please get one with the fog lights, they look nekkid without the fogs)

Dude if it floats your boat 2 own a new mustang, buy a new mustang. Who gives a F? My grandfather's 85 year old best friend bought him a brand new '05 baby blue mustang v6. It's a fun car to drive around in.

[ArmyofOne]

TurboGS300

so you really need to stop making them escort boy

It's sad you typed so much after that. Big waste of your time. You'll find that most people won't respect anything you say once you've shown your !Removed!.

Army said your statement was ignorant. It was. It seems to me your only reply is typing just enough to mix some insults in & get by with them.

Anyways, on topic...

When it came down to evaluating my car, the dealership quoted me $18,000 (2001 Gs430 - black, nav, levinson 60k miles). This obviously killed the deal and I walked away.

First: Am I nuts for considering trading a lexus for a ford? Second: Are they nuts thinking my car is worth only 18K?

I dont think you are all that crazy, it depends on what suits your persoanlity. if you like the In your face styling of the mustang, go for it. i personally wouldnt want to take the kick in the pants when trading it, but then, if you own your GS outright, you could all but pay cash for the stang, then trade it every 2-3 years on a newer car so your value stays up, and pay cahs every time. thats whta my folks did, and now they have 2 nearly new vehciles and no payments (well the camry is new). i would personally stick with the GS430. although the only real thing i dont like about Lexus is there lack of a manual in all except the IS in recent years. i really think the GS would be a HOT seller and reseller with a supra 6 speed behind it, at least in the 300.

[SW03ES]

One more off topic post, or post comparing domestic to import cars and this thread will be closed.

TurboGS300, your personal comments and their intended goal of getting a rise out of Army of One are out of line. We'll see you in two weeks, hopefully then you'll be a little more willing to converse with the members here as an adult.

[sha4000]

he got a suspension for thar SW? ive seen worst than that in some threads without a suspension, but if he is a repeat offender dont mind me please.

anyway how much do they want for the mustang? i personally would never make that trade, you would go from luxury sedan to regular old sedan that doesnt even look that good

[SW03ES]

sha, I'm going to ask you to address any further questions or comments about moderating actions to me or the administrators in private. The goal of doing these things is to end issues before they erupt, when you chime in to question them after they're done (and you do this often) you simply make the situation worse. I, any of the other moderators, SK, and the admins will be more than happy to discuss why we do things the way we do, in private

To answer your question, his conduct clearly violates one of our grand total of two rules, be kind, respectful, and polite to fellow members, and don't advertise without first clearing it with us. There's no excuse for his personally directed attacks, I recieved complaints about his conduct from a few members (no, Army was not one of them) and his account has been disciplined. Hopefully he can come back in two weeks and he won't cause any issues again.

If you've seen conduct worse than that which got no suspension I didn't see it, so please clue me in next time.

True to my word, I think the original topic of this thread is lost and I'm closing it. Sorry to the original poster, but I think he got the info he needed that $18k isn't an unreasonable amount to be offered by an off brand dealer in a trading down situation.