Synthetic Atf ?

[Magnoman]

Anyone have any Views on synthetic ATF for 2002 RX300 ?

[RX300 Steven]

I use Amsoil in my 2000 RX, seems to work just fine. I've put about 8,000 miles now with just Amsoil and mileage is good and shifting is very smooth.

[TunedRX300]

Toyota T IV is synthetic, also there is 16 quarts in AWD tranny, we can drain and fill only 4 quarts. I am debating to to go Amsoil after my powertrain warranty on tranny expire, no one knows how Amsoil mix with Toyota T IV ATF. I will definitely put a tranny filter on the return line of the cooler. RX300s have a mesh and rely on two magnets on tranny and transfer case drain plugs to catch finer particles - SKperformance has an excellent post on the ES forum on the external filter.

[monarch]

Toyota Type T-IV fluid is the factory fill fluid and it's NOT synthetic and that's why it's priced almost the same as Toyota Dexron III fluid.

It's inherently risky to fool around with anything other than factory fluids. SKPerformance tried Mobil synthetic and later admitted "My transmission troubles began after I used Mobil 1 synthetic"

When I was younger I fooled around with synthetics too. Now I have a transmission seal leak which would cost me $800 to get fixed. I have no one to blame but myself for taking unnnecessary and avoidable risks. Installing aftermarket filters and coolers is risky too.

What's not risky is to simply drain and refill the 4 quarts of Type T-IV in your transmission oil pan every 15,000 miles. The aftermarket won't make any money off you if you do this and that's why they won't recommend it.

[TunedRX300]

Toyota Type T-IV fluid is the factory fill fluid and it's NOT synthetic and that's why it's priced almost the same as Toyota Dexron III fluid. 

It's inherently risky to fool around with anything other than factory fluids.  SKPerformance tried Mobil synthetic and later admitted "My transmission troubles began after I used Mobil 1 synthetic" 

When I was younger I fooled around with synthetics too.  Now I have a transmission  seal leak which would cost me $800 to get fixed.   I have no one to blame but myself for taking unnnecessary and avoidable risks.  Installing aftermarket filters and coolers is risky too. 

What's not risky is to simply drain and refill the 4 quarts of Type T-IV in your transmission oil pan every 15,000 miles.  The aftermarket won't make any money off you if you do this and that's why they won't recommend it.

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Hmm, T-IV not synthetic, I am 60% leaning toward Amsoil. Magnuson-Moss Warranty law requires automakers to provide OEM parts free if they are the only qualified parts to work in our cars. I don't see Toyota giving out T IV ATFs.

It is interesting that you have no problem for Toyota making lots of money off us. RX in NC posted he is not surprised if you show up in Toyota's payroll somewhere, I tend to agree.

[alsalih]

Ouch! I would have to say that it would be best to stay with T-IV on this one. The vehicle shifts and operates perfectly fine with this fluid and it is specifically designed for the Aisin transmission so what would you really gain from any alternate synthetic in this case? The trick is to call around and find the cheapest Toyota dealer to buy this from (Leuxs in my area wanted $9 a quart, I got it from a Toyota dealer for $3.50). This to me is just to critical and expensive a component to take a chance on.

[katzjamr]

I dont own a rx 300 and i have seen Monarch's posts were he defends Lexus, however in this post isnt he really saying dont spend the money on aftermarket coolers or expensive amsoil, just do the cheap insurance of the more frequent tranny oil changes to protect the larger investment of the 4 to 6 K replacement. I have a neighbor who owns an auto body and repair shop, his wife has a 2000 rx 300 with over 100K on the odometer. He had dark fluid and some odd shifting, had the fluid changed at an honest trans shop at 60K and has had no problems. At the time he took it in he thot he was in for a much larger repair.

I do not deny that too many people out there seem to be in rx 300 transmission hell, but isnt the best answer the more frequent oil changes by themselves? BTW, after reading all this im halfway wondering if the CVT in my 400h is gonna go the distance pulling around 4300 pounds of suv, so far so good, and should there be some maintenance on it that is not mentioned in the manual.

[monarch]

im halfway wondering if the CVT in my 400h is gonna go the distance pulling around 4300 pounds of suv, so far so good, and should there be some maintenance on it that is not mentioned in the manual.

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I'd be curious to know what your 400h manual says about the maintenance of your CVT? Is Type T-IV fluid specified or Type WS fluid (World Standard fluid)? Is there a transmission fluid dipstick located under the hood, or is there a transmission fluid fill hole located underneath the car on the transmission itself that you keep filled to the brim as on a manual transmission car? Is there a transmission fluid drain plug or is the whole unit permanently sealed? Does the manual specify fluid changes for severe service like towing? Thanks for any information you might be able to provide.

[lparkersr]

I dont own a rx 300 and i have seen Monarch's posts were he defends Lexus, however in this post isnt he really saying dont spend the money on aftermarket coolers or expensive amsoil, just do the cheap insurance of the more frequent tranny oil changes to protect the larger investment of the 4 to 6 K replacement.  I have a neighbor who owns an auto body and repair shop, his wife has a 2000 rx 300 with over 100K on the odometer.  He had dark fluid and some odd shifting, had the fluid changed at an honest trans shop at 60K and has had no problems.  At the time he took it in he thot he was in for a much larger repair.

I do not deny that too many people out there seem to be in rx 300 transmission hell, but isnt the best answer the more frequent oil changes by themselves?  BTW, after reading all this im halfway wondering if the CVT in my 400h is gonna go the distance pulling around 4300 pounds of suv, so far so good, and should there be some maintenance on it that is not mentioned in the manual.

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[TunedRX300]

I dont own a rx 300 and i have seen Monarch's posts were he defends Lexus, however in this post isnt he really saying dont spend the money on aftermarket coolers or expensive amsoil, just do the cheap insurance of the more frequent tranny oil changes to protect the larger investment of the 4 to 6 K replacement.  I have a neighbor who owns an auto body and repair shop, his wife has a 2000 rx 300 with over 100K on the odometer.  He had dark fluid and some odd shifting, had the fluid changed at an honest trans shop at 60K and has had no problems.  At the time he took it in he thot he was in for a much larger repair.

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Everyone has an opinion but when one shuts down all options except what is financially beneficial to Toyota w/o stating facts won't win my credibility vote.

Amsoil ATF claims to not oxidate as much as than OEM ATF, if the tranny is improperly cooled and burn up T IV at 1/4 of recommendate change interval (BTW under extreme case of towing a trailer), finding another ATF e.g. Amsoil that can take that increased tranny temperature may be one of the better solutions. If Amsoil is lying, show us data and fact so everyone knows this is a bad choice.

Tranny filter that SKperformance suggested also wins good comments from ES and RX owners because they reported prolonged ATF life and better shifting as the filter catches finer metal particles that the mesh can not filter. If this solution harms the tranny, show us how.

[katzjamr]

im halfway wondering if the CVT in my 400h is gonna go the distance pulling around 4300 pounds of suv, so far so good, and should there be some maintenance on it that is not mentioned in the manual.

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I'd be curious to know what your 400h manual says about the maintenance of your CVT? Is Type T-IV fluid specified or Type WS fluid (World Standard fluid)? Is there a transmission fluid dipstick located under the hood, or is there a transmission fluid fill hole located underneath the car on the transmission itself that you keep filled to the brim as on a manual transmission car? Is there a transmission fluid drain plug or is the whole unit permanently sealed? Does the manual specify fluid changes for severe service like towing? Thanks for any information you might be able to provide.

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Im working on a proper answer, i have the Manual Supplement that shows the Maintenance intervals, but i want to check the main manual and the dealer. From what i can see, they dont even mention checking trans fluid on the cvt until 36months or 30K. At 72 months or 60K they say replace fluid in the tranny only if under severe service, i.e. dirt roads, desert use or towing. They have u replace it again under severe conditions at 90K just check it if u are a 'normal' driver. At 120K they say replace it under the severe conditions, just check it under normal.

I dont see a trans fluid dipstick under the hood ill look again.

[bluestu]

Every car I've ever owned I've always changed the transmission fluid and filter at least every 15 to 20k. It's just common sense and great insurance that your transmission will survive into at least the first 100k. Toyota is specifing that owners use type IV fluid, so why take a chance with another fluid??? That drain and fill is a total bunch of crap and anyone who gets suckered into that one should be required to take an IQ test. I've noticed that really only a few people on this forum have had transmission problems. They've just posted their problem so many times that it seems like hundreds of owners are having transmission failures. It doesn't matter what make of car you own, if you don't keep the fluid clean the transmission is going to fry up much sooner than expected.

[bartkat]

Toyota Type T-IV fluid is the factory fill fluid and it's NOT synthetic and that's why it's priced almost the same as Toyota Dexron III fluid. 

It's inherently risky to fool around with anything other than factory fluids.  SKPerformance tried Mobil synthetic and later admitted "My transmission troubles began after I used Mobil 1 synthetic" 

When I was younger I fooled around with synthetics too.  Now I have a transmission  seal leak which would cost me $800 to get fixed.  I have no one to blame but myself for taking unnnecessary and avoidable risks.  Installing aftermarket filters and coolers is risky too. 

What's not risky is to simply drain and refill the 4 quarts of Type T-IV in your transmission oil pan every 15,000 miles.  The aftermarket won't make any money off you if you do this and that's why they won't recommend it.

←

Hmm, T-IV not synthetic, I am 60% leaning toward Amsoil. Magnuson-Moss Warranty law requires automakers to provide OEM parts free if they are the only qualified parts to work in our cars. I don't see Toyota giving out T IV ATFs.

It is interesting that you have no problem for Toyota making lots of money off us. RX in NC posted he is not surprised if you show up in Toyota's payroll somewhere, I tend to agree.

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Have you asked for your free trans fluid? If not, please do, and then let us know how your litigation turns out. :)

[monarch]

Every car I've ever owned I've always changed the transmission fluid and filter at least every 15 to 20k. That drain and fill is a total bunch of crap and anyone who gets suckered into that one should be required to take an IQ test.

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A Toyota is an Asian car with a transmission designed and built by a Japanese company called Aisin. The Aisin automatics have a 400,000+ mile durability track record when the owner has drained and refilled the 2-3 quarts of fluid in the oil pan every 15,000 -20,000 miles or so. The filter of an Aisin automatic NEVER needs to be changed (just cleaned in solvent every 150-200,000 miles or so is all that is needed). One fellow on this forum who goes by the name Bicolini has accumulated 438,000 troublefree miles on his 1981 Aisin A40D 4-speed automatic transmission.

[RX in NC]

bluestu,

You're dead wrong about the automatic transmission drain-and-fill procedure. For the vast majority of vehicles manufactured over the past 50 years, this has been the valid, proven way to maintain your transmission well beyond 100,000 miles. Unfortunately, there are a few models out there that appear to have inherently weak transmissions. Some of those models have been recalled by their manufacturers. The RX300 AWD has not been. Many of us who've suffered the problems believe that it should be. So would you if you'd had the same experiences.

You might want to rethink the concept of challenging IQ levels on this forum once you take the time to research the drain-and-fill procedure and how it has been a big part of automotive service history since the 1950s....

[lenore]

bluestu,

You're dead wrong about the automatic transmission drain-and-fill procedure.  For the vast majority of vehicles manufactured over the past 50 years, this has been the valid, proven way to maintain your transmission well beyond 100,000 miles.  Unfortunately, there are a few models out there that appear to have inherently weak transmissions.  Some of those models have been recalled by their manufacturers.  The RX300 AWD has not been.  Many of us who've suffered the problems believe that it should be.  So would you if you'd had the same experiences. 

You might want to rethink the concept of challenging IQ levels on this forum once you take the time to research the drain-and-fill procedure and how it has been a big part of automotive service history since the 1950s....

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Drain and fill might be good on a Mercedes or car that has a drain plug on the torque converter and transmission pan. This at least allows a greater percentage of fluid to be evacauted. I am with RX, this transmission has a poor design or the converter to the rear drive puts too much load on it. The other problem may be the searching in overdrive. And the cooler is definetely located in a poor position. Monarch does not even have a RX300 yet continues to support his position. Lexus is just not willing to stand behind their product. My time is close now on my warranty, and Monarch you would be proud of me, I have changed my fluid twice in 12k miles and it still gets that dirty look and smell. How sad, my Ford windstar has gone the same mileage and the fluid still looks clean, and smells like new Ford fluid. For all of you out there listen to the tips and hints, ie tranny filters, synthetic fluid, etc.. I know I will follow the info on the synthetic fluid change, because if it doesn't break down as readily as the Type IV than maybe it will save me another failure before I get the useful life out of my RX300.

[bluestu]

bluestu,

You're dead wrong about the automatic transmission drain-and-fill procedure.  For the vast majority of vehicles manufactured over the past 50 years, this has been the valid, proven way to maintain your transmission well beyond 100,000 miles.  Unfortunately, there are a few models out there that appear to have inherently weak transmissions.  Some of those models have been recalled by their manufacturers.  The RX300 AWD has not been.  Many of us who've suffered the problems believe that it should be.  So would you if you'd had the same experiences. 

You might want to rethink the concept of challenging IQ levels on this forum once you take the time to research the drain-and-fill procedure and how it has been a big part of automotive service history since the 1950s....

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RX in NC,

I was talking about the drain and fill that Toyota and Lexus perform on the RX300 and other AWD vehicles. I've owned other cars where you just pull the plug on the bottom of the transmission, drain the fluid, replace the filter and you're done. That works great on a standard transmission, but not on an RX300. Do that with an RX and the fluid still looks dirty. I have researched this topic thoroughly and everyone I've talked to agrees that a drain and fill is very inadequate. It doesn't remove all the dirty fluid and particles from the transmission. Most people never have their car transmissions serviced at all and they usually fail before 100k.

I've read the posts on this forum concerning transmission failures and there are just a few people who post over and over about their bad luck with their RX's transmissions. They've talked about trying different types of fluids or that their fluid appears dirty and burnt smelling. That in itself implies to me that they are not performing proper maintenance on their transmissions. Everyone speculates on what the problem is without providing any valid research or information. I've talked to several private Toyota mechanics that work on RX300/330s and Toyota Highlanders every day and they haven't seen any unusual transmission failures on these cars that are properly serviced. I own two RX300s with almost 90kmi. and I haven't had a hint of transmission problems from either one. I live in the mountains and drive up and down steep hills every day.

Concerning the intial post here: I advise you to use the right type of fluid, keep it clean, take it easy on the gas pedal, and you shouldn't have any transmission problems for a long time.

[RX in NC]

I believe that if someone took the time to investigate the longevity of automatic transmissions in general over the past thirty years or so, they would conclude that most of them manage to last over 100,000 miles regardless of whether or not their fluid has been serviced. There are always exceptions for certain manufacturers and models but for the most part, automatic transmissions have been fairly bulletproof during this period of time as long as the vehicle has been driven under normal conditions (no racing, no towing, and rare exposure to dirt roads). Many manufacturers have long published in their owners manuals that the factory fluid is sufficient for the reasonable life of the vehicle (Lexus is one of them), and a lot of owners take that to heart and never change (and rarely check) their fluid as a result. For whatever reason, domestic vehicles seem to be much more likely to go the 100,000 mile distance with their original factory fluid than the Japanese or European vehicles. My guess is that the simpler design of a three-speed or four-speed automatic transmission that has been around for decades provides the advantage needed to be able to do this. Several members of this forum have reported routinely getting more than 100,000 miles on original transmission fluid with no decay in transmission performance. It appears to be fairly typical for drivers who don't race, don't tow, and stay off of dirt roads.

I'm not advocating that you should never refresh your transmission fluid just because your owners manual says so. I've owned a number of automatic transmission vehicles and I've typically done drain-and-fills between 50,000 and 60,000 miles even when the owners manual has told me I don't need to. I've changed Dexron fluid that was still sparkling clean and smelling fresh at 60,000 miles and wondered if I was wasting my time and money on a maintenance procedure that truly wasn't necessary. And I've long-since accepted the fact that as long as we own my wife's RX300, I'll need to change that fluid at a maximum of 30,000 mile intervals. Some of you even use change intervals that are half of that.

But the real shame with this entire issue is that the RX300 AWD owners manual should NOT advise its owners to run the factory fill for the life of the vehicle even under the most ideal conditions. This is not a make and model that possesses a bulletproof transmission, and it is wrong for Lexus to mislead its customers into thinking that they never have to refresh their fluid. Many of these vehicles are suffering from premature transmission failure and while changing fluid at a certain mileage interval (be it 15,000, 20,000, or 30,000) may not prevent eventual transmission failure in all cases, it may very well postpone failure and is certainly a wise preventive maintenance step given what we know about these RX300 AWD transmissions at this point.

[lenore]

I believe that if someone took the time to investigate the longevity of automatic transmissions in general over the past thirty years or so, they would conclude that most of them manage to last over 100,000 miles regardless of whether or not their fluid has been serviced.  There are always exceptions for certain manufacturers and models but for the most part, automatic transmissions have been fairly bulletproof during this period of time as long as the vehicle has been driven under normal conditions (no racing, no towing, and rare exposure to dirt roads).  Many manufacturers have long published in their owners manuals that the factory fluid is sufficient for the reasonable life of the vehicle (Lexus is one of them), and a lot of owners take that to heart and never change (and rarely check) their fluid as a result.  For whatever reason, domestic vehicles seem to be much more likely to go the 100,000 mile distance with their original factory fluid than the Japanese or European vehicles.  My guess is that the simpler design of a three-speed or four-speed automatic transmission that has been around for decades provides the advantage needed to be able to do this.  Several members of this forum have reported routinely getting more than 100,000 miles on original transmission fluid with no decay in transmission performance.  It appears to be fairly typical for drivers who don't race, don't tow, and stay off of dirt roads.

I'm not advocating that you should never refresh your transmission fluid just because your owners manual says so.  I've owned a number of automatic transmission vehicles and I've typically done drain-and-fills between 50,000 and 60,000 miles even when the owners manual has told me I don't need to.  I've changed Dexron fluid that was still sparkling clean and smelling fresh at 60,000 miles and wondered if I was wasting my time and money on a maintenance procedure that truly wasn't necessary.  And I've long-since accepted the fact that as long as we own my wife's RX300, I'll need to change that fluid at a maximum of 30,000 mile intervals.  Some of you even use change intervals that are half of that.

But the real shame with this entire issue is that the RX300 AWD owners manual should NOT advise its owners to run the factory fill for the life of the vehicle even under the most ideal conditions.  This is not a make and model that possesses a bulletproof transmission, and it is wrong for Lexus to mislead its customers into thinking that they never have to refresh their fluid.  Many of these vehicles are suffering from premature transmission failure and while changing fluid at a certain mileage interval (be it 15,000, 20,000, or 30,000) may not prevent eventual transmission failure in all cases, it may very well postpone failure and is certainly a wise preventive maintenance step given what we know about these RX300 AWD transmissions at this point.

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Very well said, and I concur that Lexus has not given a firm position one way or another on the fluid changes. Lexus of America says differently from the Local dealerships, obviously not dialed in on the mechanics whom are finding different results than what the owners manual says. Good Luck everyone if you own a RX300 AWD.

[katzjamr]

to monarch regarding the fluid in cvt, it is the world standard type, the toyota mechanic i talked to said its expensive so im thinking its synthetic. he did repeat that under normal driving there is no reccomended cvt oil change in the first 100K, and he further said they have trained hybrid specialists do the work as even changing fluid in an incorrect manner on a cvt can cause improper shifting. Just one mans opinion, from a toyota tech, not gospel.

[TunedRX300]

to monarch regarding the fluid in cvt, it is the world standard type, the toyota mechanic i talked to said its expensive so im thinking its synthetic.  he did repeat that under normal driving there is no reccomended cvt oil change in the first 100K, and he further said they have trained hybrid specialists do the work as even changing fluid in an incorrect manner on a cvt can cause improper shifting.  Just one mans opinion, from a toyota tech, not gospel.

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See gserep1's posting about 05 LS and 06 GS now have synthetic ATF filled by Toyota at the factory.

New Toyota ATF is Synthetic

I also remembered Toyota/Lexus does not recommend owners to go back on dino oil after changing to synthetic engine oil, but now Lexus dealership is using Castrol Blend to service RX400h. Isn't blend a mix of syn and dino?

I don't follow the logic. OK for Toyota to use synthetic but not OK if we as owners want to use it?

[katzjamr]

I think they use Castrol Blend for a couple reasons. They say it fights sludge, a previous toyota problem, and i would want the better lube characteristics of the synthetic in my 400h since it starts and stops so frequently. Also in an emergency if no Blend was available you could probably put in some dino if you needed oil. Dino blend is probably more reasonable priced than full synthetic. I have been using Quaker State 4x4 oil in all my trucks, it is a dino blend and it has been a great oil, cutting consumption by half in older engines and protecting the rest since they were new.

[lenore]

I think they use Castrol Blend for a couple reasons.  They say it fights sludge, a previous toyota problem, and i would want the better lube characteristics of the synthetic in my  400h since it starts and stops so frequently.  Also in an emergency if  no Blend was available you could probably put in some dino if you needed oil.  Dino blend is probably more reasonable priced than full synthetic.  I have been  using Quaker State 4x4 oil in all my trucks, it is a dino blend and it has been a great oil, cutting consumption by half in older engines and protecting the rest since they were new.

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I have been using synthetic blend since day one on my RX300 with 119k miles on it changing the fluid every 3 to 3.5k miles. There is slight evidence of some sort of sludge residue on the oil cap and where the oil is added, but the oil generally always looks good. Back to the transmission failures reported by only a few the local dealership which I hate (Roseville Lexus) The mechanics which I have talked to have heard and experienced a great number of failures of the RX300 AWD, but concur that the two wheel drive vehicles have very few or none failures through their grapevine and training. I don't know if the Highlander has had some mods done that the Lexus didn't get, but It still is a problem when my third transmission after only 5k miles has the indications of dirty tranny fluid and burnt smell. I have change the fluid three times this year ( only 18k on the tranny) but still have that dirty and burn't smell. I am going to add the filter and possibly investigate the use of a thermostatic cooling fan on the aux tranny filter for summer time. So be it.

[TunedRX300]

Lenore, that is a great idea to have a thermostat controlled cooling fan. The only thing is that RX AWD does not have enough space at the back of the tranny cooler. If you poke your finger through the ridges/holes of front passesnger wheel cover, you can feel the tranny cooler. So the fan probably have be in the front. Well... windshield wash fluid reservior is in a bad spot to block circulation and takes up space, perhaps a plastic pipe to collect and channel cool air from the right bumper hole to the tranny cooler would be an easier solution? Hmm... time to visit Home Depot plumbing department again.