I Think I've Figured It Out

[nc211]

Guys, I think I've pinpointed the source of my strange wobble. It is the e-brake. I think it's dragging. When I slightly put the brake on and drive slowly, the wobble is magnified. I take the brake off, drive slowly, slight wobble. Apply the brake, drive slowly, wobble is intensified. Now, how much does this cost to correct? I'm going to put on new rotors and pads in two weeks on the back anyway. I'm wondering if I need to order some other parts for the e-brake?

EDIT 7/31/2006:: As the starter of this thread, I want to post to those new here reading this for the first time. There is a lot of helpful information in these pages, but the ultimate answer is at the end....The driveshaft center bearing was bad due to years of having a bad engine computer which created something called "Off Throttle Shock". The reverse torque of the off-throttle-shock was too much for the center bearings to handle. Read the pages if you like, but the cause was the driveshaft.

[morg96ls400]

Man that reminds me, one night I went out and stopped at a light, this guy next to me revved his little rice rocket, so i looked over and smiled. When the light turned green i let the beast loose and he tried to follow but I put too much distance between us and he gave up. After a couple seconds my car started shaking and I thought "Oh christ i just blew a seal" then I look down and see my BRAKE light blinking-I HAD FORGOTTEN TO TAKE IT OFF BEFORE I LEFT. So I took it off and the car stopped shaking. However, now I have this problem with a "whole car shaking rumble" when I reach 75 mph. Not sure if you have that same problem or if its all the time, but I'm guessing I may have a problem with my ebrake loose or something too. Good luck!

[nc211]

Hahaha! Blew his doors off huh! Yeah, when you turn these V8's loose, they will scream! I like how they just keep going faster and faster and faster, keep on pulling and winding up. I love this V8! Now that I know what the problem is, I can actually hear the brake dragging and feel it now too. I feels like I'm towing something behind me.

[id1]

Hahaha! Blew his doors off huh! Yeah, when you turn these V8's loose, they will scream! I like how they just keep going faster and faster and faster, keep on pulling and winding up. I love this V8! Now that I know what the problem is, I can actually hear the brake dragging and feel it now too. I feels like I'm towing something behind me.

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I had a similar problem 3 weeks ago on my 95 LS. I was going 55 mph and suddenly the car started vibrating with sound. First I thought it could be a flat tire but it was not. Then I took the car to my mechanic. On lift they noticed left rear wheel locked up due to faulty e-brake cable. Once loosened the car drove normally. I did not engage the brake for a week and after replacing e-brake cable and pads it is back to normal again.

[nc211]

Hahaha! Blew his doors off huh! Yeah, when you turn these V8's loose, they will scream! I like how they just keep going faster and faster and faster, keep on pulling and winding up. I love this V8! Now that I know what the problem is, I can actually hear the brake dragging and feel it now too. I feels like I'm towing something behind me.

←

I had a similar problem 3 weeks ago on my 95 LS. I was going 55 mph and suddenly the car started vibrating with sound. First I thought it could be a flat tire but it was not. Then I took the car to my mechanic. On lift they noticed left rear wheel locked up due to faulty e-brake cable. Once loosened the car drove normally. I did not engage the brake for a week and after replacing e-brake cable and pads it is back to normal again.

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That sounds exactly like mine. When you say rear left, are you saying the driver's side? Mine is at it's worst first thing in the morning, makes the car hop up and down from the rear "or so it feels like such". I'm fixing it this weekend, and putting on a new pair of pads on the back as well.

[id1]

Hahaha! Blew his doors off huh! Yeah, when you turn these V8's loose, they will scream! I like how they just keep going faster and faster and faster, keep on pulling and winding up. I love this V8! Now that I know what the problem is, I can actually hear the brake dragging and feel it now too. I feels like I'm towing something behind me.

←

I had a similar problem 3 weeks ago on my 95 LS. I was going 55 mph and suddenly the car started vibrating with sound. First I thought it could be a flat tire but it was not. Then I took the car to my mechanic. On lift they noticed left rear wheel locked up due to faulty e-brake cable. Once loosened the car drove normally. I did not engage the brake for a week and after replacing e-brake cable and pads it is back to normal again.

←

That sounds exactly like mine. When you say rear left, are you saying the driver's side? Mine is at it's worst first thing in the morning, makes the car hop up and down from the rear "or so it feels like such". I'm fixing it this weekend, and putting on a new pair of pads on the back as well.

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Yes, it is rear wheel on driver's side. Good luck and hope it works out.

[nc211]

Up from the ashes on this one. Update:

Well the wobble in the rear was greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated by replacing the rear rotors. I still had it, but most noticably from the front. I just had the rotors replaced and I can greatfully say the wobble has been toned WAY down. I think now it's just an alignment issue. It's been a good 5k miles since my last one, on some pretty bumpy side roads and highways "ever been on I95 in South Carolina", then you know my pain. Point of the story, I think it was the rotors. I'll know for sure this weekend as I am heading up to Williamsburg, VA. But it sure did feel better this afternoon coming back from the shop.

[nc211]

Nevermind my previous post :chairshot: . Wobble still there. CRAP!!!

The rotors did smooth out the wheels however, which was needed. ;)

The wobble is in the drive shaft, no doubt about it as this is all that's left. It doesn't feel like it's in the wheels anymore. Obviously the rotors were masking it and acting in conjunction with the wobble in general. I'm wondering if when the guys changed out my differential bushing mounts they did not connect the driveshaft to the differential correctly. If I recall from the manual, there are marks that need to line up for a proper balance? Or if the flexcoupling is shot. Or, if they damaged the center bearing by not properly supporting the disconnected drive shaft during the bushing replacement. But, either case, I'm convinced it's in the drive shaft, and either coming from the center or further back towards the differential. One way or another, one more $100 or another, I'll figure this out. Too late to turn back now! Any ideas?

[SKperformance]

Since i ran over a 9X12 inch rock at 140 kmh on the highway i also got a slight vibration . So i started to think about your problem in the back of my head every so often for solutions.

I threw my rims on last night but i have not gotten up to speed to see if it is gone as i only have the vibrationat 120-130kmh ,it is enough my rearview shakes like i have a system in the trunk.

In your case have you ever had someone put it on a hoist and get the car up to the major wobble speed while you watched the drivetrain to try and locate the vibrations?

To me with no load it would show its head very quickly as the suspension is unloaded so it can move more than when supressed by weight.

I would not do this on the ground with jack stands or you will get that Ferris buellers day off reaction an go screaming down the road.

[nc211]

SK, I'm curious, have you had a chance to test out the new rims yet? I drove 500 miles this past weekend and the fury on my face from the vibration just about put me over the edge. I'm going to take the car to a lexus specialist here in Raleigh in the next couple of weeks to get this problem fixed! I think it's the drive shaft, especially since the car suffered from the Off Throttle Shock problem for 8 years of it's life. I knew that jerking in the transmission when taking your foot off the gas at 40mph could not be good for the driveshaft. I'm betting it's either the couplings, or center support, or both. This in addition to my old ripped differential mounts makes me think I'm in for one hell of a bill soon. I've got Mich tires so I would not think they would be bad. They've got about 60% of life left on them.

[SKperformance]

My rims are on and i still have a slight vibration .That being said i also have not installed hub centric rings to balance the wheel on the studs either.

Have you ever removed the wheels and sanded down the hub mating surface where the wheel sits?

That small amount of build up can definatly cause quite a few vibrations that many can never find as it is over looked.

With new rotors that side of the hub is nice and clean but if there is still debris on the wheel side it will cause even a balance wheel to vibrate.

[nc211]

yeah i sanded down the rear ones and told the mechanic last week to do the same for the fronts. the new rotors definatly smoothed out the ride, took that warped rotor shimmy out of the car. but once that was gone, and it was quite bad, the original wobble has become easily felt. I can't speak right today, got a bad case of "yoda-ism" due to cold medication.

[SRK]

Find a shop that can balance the wheels on a road force variation machine. I had the wheels and tires on both my cars balanced by that method, and I am a believer now! Transformed the ride - no vibrations. Worth whatever you have to pay to have it done.

[nc211]

Just wanted to update this thread. The problem does indeed seem to be with the tires. It appears that a belt has shifted somewhere on one or two of them. There are no physical signs of this problem on the tires "yet", but professionally diagnoised as such by a local shop that specializes in older, high mileage Lexus cars. It is assumed that I probably hit a bad pothole on the right side at some point, damaging both the front and rear right tires. Since they've been rotated several times over the past few months, I have literally been chasing this thing around the car. New tires will be ordered w/n the next few weeks.

[SKperformance]

Why not try and put the spare into rotation in the mean time to find the worst or confirm the belt shifting?

[nc211]

I thought about doing just that, but have pushed my luck with my better half on my obsession with the car. I think she might go get another cat if she catches me jacking up the car one more time in the driveway. Dude, I can't handle another curtain swinging critter who seems to like eating the insoles of my shoes. We're up to 3 as is, and none of them get along. So I think I'll just resign myself to the fact that the tires are getting close to replacement anyway due to tread conditions and let the smoke clear for a bit. Luckly though she does not have any interest in this website, thank god, otherwise I'd be living in a freakin' zoo right about now. The down side to loving a true Carolina' country girl....she looooves animals. Upside is that she hasn't the faintest idea about jewelry!

[nc211]

Update: I no longer feel it is the tires. Car was leaking something a few weeks ago, went to shop, said they couldn't find anything wrong. Today, backed car down to end of driveway so I could blow off the leaves. Took 20 minutes. Pulled car back up drive way & found fresh new leak stain where it was just sitting at the end of driveway. Looked under car now sitting at top of driveway...fresh new leak stain again. Plastic under-engine cover is dry, nothing dripping down onto it from engine. Looked at tie rod boots....bingo..passenger side is wet. Now, who wants to bet that my inner tie rods, especially the passenger side one, are worn out and are the culprit of this wobble? I just don't think the two problems are not tied together in some fashion. I took pictures and will edit this post soon once I get my camera software reinstalled onto my computer. I can't find anywhere else under the car that is wet. I dabbed the fluid in the driveway with a white paper towel...looks brown with a very very slight tint of red, and watery. I checked my power steering resiviour, it's dark brown, with maybe 1/1000% hint of red. They both match. It's leaking right at the boot clamp next to the rack housing. The driver's side is dry as a bone. So.....here I go again.... Army, or Blake, I need Homer again. I lost his number. I also need suggestions on tools, additional parts like rubber seals and so forth. Well, before I get ahead of myself here....do you guys think I can pull this off myself? I did all the front suspension parts myself, this doesn't look too bad in comparision...but is unchartered territory for me. Ohhh, forgot, also looked under car while running, and turned steering wheel to the left. It looks like the passenger side inner tie rod not only slide outward like it should, but looks like it is sliding Upward inside the boot too??

I'm thinking Nov. 11 weekend, since it's a 3 day weekend for me. I'll start looking around the site on info on how to flush the power steering system as well, cause I'm betting it ain't supposta' look like !Removed!-water.

Tires my !Removed!. I bet there is enough freeplay in those inner tierods to allow the tires to wiggle around. Anyway...I'll post up pictures soon of the evidence and see what you guys think.

[SKperformance]

They are easy to change ,buy a puller set or borrow one from a parts store for free.

Mark the inner tierod so you can adjust the nut back into place but you will still need an alignment after 100%

[nc211]

Here are the pictures of what I see...and one of my car in general after a bath. I could not see the tranny pan from the ground, but did take a pictures. I put my hand on the plug and it did not feel wet at all, but the picture looks like it is.

[nc211]

I'm sorry, but I just can't accept the diagnosis that my wobble is being caused by the tires. I've driven many cars with bad tires, bald tires, belt wire sticking out of them, flat spots, out of round and so forth, and never had this kind of problem at this level. I think it's a bad bushing in one of the control arms. Some say they feel it in the rear, as I agree. I do think the inner tie rods are wearing out, the car wanders a little. When I turn a corner, I can feel the steering wheel twitching a little, it's not very smooth. But the wobble feels like the car itself is shifting around on the road, like the wheels are loose in general. So, I went back through my records and found that one of the rear suspension parts was not replaced, and it appears to have a ball joint attached to it. It is #10 in the picture. I replaced #7,#11 and #14, but #10 was over looked. What do you guys think?

I was also wondering if the parts were not put on correctly??? I did the fronts, and made sure they were torqued correctly. But still have that clunk noise from the front, even after I greased the stabalizer bushings. I did not however do the labor on replacing the strut rods. I bought them from Hoy Fox online and had the dealership put them on. They were not too happy that I brought in my own part and did not pay their massive retail premium. They also replaced the rear carrier bushings with one of those ASUS repair kits.

I'm really stumped on this problem and can't seem to figure it out, nor can the mechanics. I'm wondering if it's those two missed parts in the rear suspension? I got to tell ya', if I can't figure this out, I'm about at the point of just selling it and buying another one. Seems like my car has the most problems on here, and it's that damn wobble. The other stuff like a leak here, rattle there, doesn't bother me or suprise me at it's age. But the loose feeling of the car really does.

[alsalih]

Remove #10 and inspect it off the vehicle before replacing it. With regards to the possible tire issue I would lift the car and spin the tire and see if it has a wobble or is out of round. The service manual has procedures for checking out of round tires using a dial indicator). I know that feeling you get when you can't get something resolved and you just want to sell the vehicle. Despite the reliability of the LS400 it's not immune from leaks, break downs, and problems (just hopefully less so then other vehicles). If you’re able to diagnose and repair these issues as they arise or if you can afford to take the vehicle to the dealer then this really is one nice ride. If you get burned out from "always" having to fix something then maybe it is time to go buy a new Camry.

[nc211]

Have had the tires checked twice. Funny, the inspection doesn't reveal anything wrong with the tires, but the mechanics are stumped to the point of saying it's the tires because they can't pinpoint a specific part. Actually had one mechanic say "start with replacing the tires and go from there, eventually you'll find the problem." Gee guy, thanks, hope I didn't disturb your afternoon nap. Obviously he did not listen to me when I told him all the new parts on the car already. I could care less about a leak here, a leak there, that is to be expected with anything mechanical that is 10 years old. I think it might be time to call in the dealership on this one and see what they say, because the more I think about it, the more I look at it, the less convinced it's tires. It's either in the driveshaft, control arm bushing or steering components. Rims are fine, not bent. Tires are mounted correctly too. Rotors aren't warped and the alignment has been checked more times than I care to admit, with the Hunter system too. Or, I got jipped on my new parts and actually have refurbed stuff on there, which I doubt. And I'm not going with a Camry. I'd rather go back to Nissan and get a used 2002 Infiniti I35. You can't beat that 3.5 engine they've got, but that's a discussion for a different thread ;)

[Gumart1]

NC, I like alsalih's advice; however I don't believe it's the tires. My old 92 had flawed tires that you could clearly feel with your hand as you spun the wheel, yet the car still rode fine. I would take it to the Dealer at this point after what you have dealt with and all that you have invested. But with several conditions. First, confirm that your Dealer will have his most qualified mechanic look at your car. Tell them up front you're not about to throw money left and right at guesswork. Have them commit to a set price to diagnose it. It shouldn't be more than an hour up front to do this. I think you said almost all of the replacement parts were OEM were they not? That will help so that Lexus doesn't use that as an excuse as to why thing's aren't lining up. What would really be nice is for them to recommend a repair but to commit to that repair fixing the problem, and if it doesn't, you should not be charged the labor. I understand this is atypical but you have thrown good Lexus $ after bad Lexus $ and you deserve for your LS to ride like one.

Unless you find a smokin' deal on a '98 then dump yours and go for it.

[nc211]

yeah i think johnson lexus owes me a solid answer to this problem. I bought this car from them back in May 04' at 84k miles. Was told it would be a CPO if it weren't for it's age. Guy even said the mantaince records jacket had "perfect" written on it. All parts are OEM except for brake rotors and pads. Everything else is genuine Lexus issue. If I could just get this one nagging problem fixed, I know she'll be like new. You're right Marty, I've dumped one $ after another into this car, hoping it would fix this and she'd be awesome. But this "replace everything to fix one thing" philosophy has come to an end with me....what else is there to replace???It actually feels like the subframe is loose sometimes, is about the best way I can describe this wobble. I know it's not, and there are no signs of an accident from the past, other than a small fender rub up front. But it could be worse. I could have a 98 MB E320 with a bad wiring harness that costs thousands to fix. I guess I'll pony up the $100 diagnostics fee to the dealership and see what they say. I am going to require the senior tech to come to my office and go for a spin with me. Our road is new and super smooth, and is where you can easily feel the problem.

[SKperformance]

Have you put the car in the air and spun the wheels yet?

Bad tires can be unbelivable.

I just took off my 20's for the winter and because the vibration was driving me nuts.

Mine was a bad tire