Ls400 And Nsx For 300c?

[CanadaCraig]

Hi JasonInDallas!! :)

I might be crazy - but the 300C really IS a very nice car. And obviously others agree. It has won more awards than ANY other 'all-new-car' in history. It can't be THAT bad. Sure - an LS430 is a better car [as far as quality goes] but sometimes people are willing to sacrifice some quality for something that's unique and fun to drive. [like the 300C] I'm probably one of those people. But who knows. Probably this time NEXT year I'll be posting messages complaining about my LS. [oh I hope not!!] Your point is well taken - however.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[CanadaCraig]

Hi GSsoldier!! :)

I don't always respond to every message - but if I have the time I do. [and I try to make time] I figure that if someone is kind enough to respond to one of MY messages - the least I can do is respond BACK. I agree - as far as build quality is concerned. The Lexus is a better car then a 300C. But really - shouldn't it be? A 2005 LS430 in Canada costs well over $85,000. A new 300C is about $45,000. You can buy an awful lot of super soft leather and wood trim for $40,000.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

[GSsoldier]

true haha how about the first 300c with a Lexus conversion? haha jk that would be crazy

[Lexusfreak]

Hi GSsoldier!! :)

I don't always respond to every message - but if I have the time I do. [and I try to make time] I figure that if someone is kind enough to respond to one of MY messages - the least I can do is respond BACK. I agree - as far as build quality is concerned. The Lexus is a better car then a 300C. But really - shouldn't it be? A 2005 LS430 in Canada costs well over $85,000. A new 300C is about $45,000. You can buy an awful lot of super soft leather and wood trim for $40,000.

Thanks,

Craig!! :)

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Craig,

I shun to think hoe much a new 300c will be worth 3 years from now.......it might just turn your stomach.

[CanadaCraig]

I shun to think hoe much a new 300c will be worth 3 years from now.......it might just turn your stomach.

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

I appreciate what you're saying. But consider this possibility. In Canada - a fully loaded Chrysler 300C [with navigation] is about $50,000. A fully loaded Lexus LS430 is about $90,000. [i'm rounding figures to make it easier] Let's say that three years from now the 300C is only worth 50% of what it cost new. And let's say that the LS430 is worth a much more impressive sounding 70%. Even though one could say [and rightfully so] that the Lexus retained more of it's value - the fact is - with the 300C - the loss amounts to $25,000. With the LS430 - the loss is $27,000.

Craig!! :)

[skylolow]

I would say keep the NSX"if you can"..............dump the LS and buy maybe a nice 2003 or so LS used with low miles. You can almost gurantee the 300c is going to have all kinds of little problems, noises, rattles, and quirks by about 50,000 miles. You must remember Chrysler among many American name brand cars are built towards a price point more then being built to be the best vehicle in its class. There is shortcuts taking everywhere to achieve this.

I would really look into a few year old LS. You wouldn't be the one eating the intial deprecation then.

Good luck on your decision. Love the NSX by the way

[Lexusfreak]

I shun to think hoe much a new 300c will be worth 3 years from now.......it might just turn your stomach.

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

I appreciate what you're saying. But consider this possibility. In Canada - a fully loaded Chrysler 300C [with navigation] is about $50,000. A fully loaded Lexus LS430 is about $90,000. [i'm rounding figures to make it easier] Let's say that three years from now the 300C is only worth 50% of what it cost new. And let's say that the LS430 is worth a much more impressive sounding 70%. Even though one could say [and rightfully so] that the Lexus retained more of it's value - the fact is - with the 300C - the loss amounts to $25,000. With the LS430 - the loss is $27,000.

Craig!! :)

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Craig,

That's exactly why I am trying to pursuade you to getting something a couple years old, took the large depreciation hit, still under factory warranty (consider an extended) with ALL service records......that way, your a winner! B) Don't buy brand new dude! B)

[SW03ES]

Fact of the matter is:

You only live once.

If you're that dissapointed in your LS and love the 300C that much...do it.

We've been through my opinion on how critical you are of your LS before, its 12 years old, and sitting for months at a time is worse than being driven. Bushings and bearings that you can't even replace dry rot and get hard. The Lexus is a fine machine but its a MACHINE, and it ages only as well as its treated and is maintained.

You've owned the NSX more of its usable life, the LS was owned for a DECADE by someone else. You simply have no idea how it was treated or maintained.

As for the new vs used question, yes its a smarter business decision to purchase something used. BUT, you can't analyze everything. My car is important to me, and I don't want to drive someones hand me down thats just my opinion. To me, theres something to be said about driving off in a car with 7 miles on the odometer and maintaining and caring for it as it ages. Buying even a great car like an LS430 2 or 3 years used doesn't appeal to me at all, I'd rather wait till I can buy one new.

[Lexusfreak]

Fact of the matter is:

You only live once.

If you're that dissapointed in your LS and love the 300C that much...do it.

We've been through my opinion on how critical you are of your LS before, its 12 years old, and sitting for months at a time is worse than being driven. Bushings and bearings that you can't even replace dry rot and get hard. The Lexus is a fine machine but its a MACHINE, and it ages only as well as its treated and is maintained.

You've owned the NSX more of its usable life, the LS was owned for a DECADE by someone else. You simply have no idea how it was treated or maintained.

As for the new vs used question, yes its a smarter business decision to purchase something used. BUT, you can't analyze everything. My car is important to me, and I don't want to drive someones hand me down thats just my opinion. To me, theres something to be said about driving off in a car with 7 miles on the odometer and maintaining and caring for it as it ages. Buying even a great car like an LS430 2 or 3 years used doesn't appeal to me at all, I'd rather wait till I can buy one new.

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I've purchased only one 'brand new' vehicle in my life & I guarantee it will be my last one. The novelty wears off after several months, not to mention the severe depreciation factor. I don't look at a used car as someone else's 'hand me down', someone was nice enough to maintain it for me, take the brunt of the depreciation & trade it in after 3 years to do it all over again :D My ES still smelled brand new for half the price, still under full factory warranty! ;) No brainer. B)

[nc211]

Oh lord, please tell me we're not about to bust out the HP12c's and run calculations on lease v. buy again. Hahahaha.

My solution: To each is his own. I love the new car feeling, but can't afford the depreciation or fees at lease turn in. So, a used car and a $12 bottle of new car smell will have to do. :whistles:

Now, if only a Ferrari would depreciate down to Honda levels, then the world would be a peacefull place!

[SW03ES]

I've purchased only one 'brand new' vehicle in my life & I guarantee it will be my last one.  The novelty wears off after several months, not to mention the severe depreciation factor.  I don't look at a used car as someone else's 'hand me down', someone was nice enough to maintain it for me, take the brunt of the depreciation & trade it in after 3 years to do it all over again  :D  My ES still smelled brand new for half the price, still under full factory warranty!  ;)  No brainer.  B)

 

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It is significantly more expensive to buy new cars in Canada than it is in the US though. 1-2 years old something like a Lexus isnt really that much cheaper than a new one. Not enough to make it worth it to me anyways.

Like I said before, to each his own but I personally would have bought a new Accord or Camry instead of a used ES.

[Lexusfreak]

I've purchased only one 'brand new' vehicle in my life & I guarantee it will be my last one.  The novelty wears off after several months, not to mention the severe depreciation factor.   I don't look at a used car as someone else's 'hand me down', someone was nice enough to maintain it for me, take the brunt of the depreciation & trade it in after 3 years to do it all over again  :D   My ES still smelled brand new for half the price, still under full factory warranty!   ;)   No brainer.   B)

 

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It is significantly more expensive to buy new cars in Canada than it is in the US though. 1-2 years old something like a Lexus isnt really that much cheaper than a new one. Not enough to make it worth it to me anyways.

Like I said before, to each his own but I personally would have bought a new Accord or Camry instead of a used ES.

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Not true once the exchange rate is factored in. :whistles: Not even close. ;) But I respect those that will only buy a brand new vehicle. The better 'value' by far is a 2 - 3 year old vehicle still under full factory warranty with service history. Just my 2 cents. B)

A perfect example.....the exchange rate is roughly 25% (the American dollar is worth 25% more than the Canadian dollar...give or take a % point or two). The base price of a 2005 Lexus ES 330 in Canada is $39,900 Canadian dollars (Lexus.ca). Which means that would work out to $29,925 U.S.

The 2005 ES 330 in the U.S. has a base price of $32,175 U.S. dollars. Which is $40,218 Canadian. Granted, no discounts are factored in here. So I ask (respectfully) where is the advantage? I posted before that the Japanese automakers are VERY close to being on par with the exchange rates between the 2 countries. So if we go by that factor, it's actually less expensive to buy an ES 330 in Canada! ;) Do you want to price out an LS? :whistles:

[SW03ES]

Again though, I'm in the United States. The advantage is we dont have all the taxes on new cars you've told me about before. Here a CPO 2004 LS430 with the ML package costs $57-58k with 15k miles or so. Well, you can get a new one for that. All I can go on is my own particular market. A 2004 ES330 with nav/lev and 15k miles is 31-32k. Well you can get a new one for 35. $3,000, especially when wrapped up in financing is BEYOND worth it to me to have a brand new car vs a used one. Especially when you factor in the fact that you have to pay higher interest rates when financing used AND you can't lease, a used car doesn't appeal to me at all.

Again, just my opinion. Like I said I live my life on the philosophy that while exhaustive financial comparisons and bargain shopping are important, some things are just an emotional thing. I work very hard, my car is very important to me, and something like a Lexus is a luxury anyways so why not just throw in the few k more and get one brand new? Nothing like driving a brand new Lexus off the lot the first time.

I just don't like used stuff, its a thing with me. I'd even prefer to buy a house fresh from a builder thats never been lived in before.

For him and the 300C, he wants to buy something he can have a long term relationship with and keep a long time. The best way to ensure that is to buy new, especially if you're as picky about things as he is. That way the car can be cared for perfectly from day one and hopefully he wont have the same dissapointments he has with his LS.

[Lexusfreak]

I hear ya SW & understand where your coming from. No, I did not factor in the any taxes in the MSRP. Both new & used cases can be made depending on one's situation to be sure....we just have 2 different ways of looking at it. Again, me personally, I would not have been able to afford my ES brand new & got it for more than half the original cost....that is why I am able to drive a Lexus. B)

I just feel a brand new car is one of the worst 'investments' you can make because of depreciation compared to let's say real estate (unless you buy the car & drive it into the ground, then your a winner).......I will never buy a new car again no matter how good the re-sale value will be......it still loses it's value no matter what. ;)

[SW03ES]

Well no car, new or used is an investment of any kind, unless its some sort of rare classic. Cars are objects, like shoes or a breifcase not investments like say Real Estate. All cars depreciate, an investment is something that has the potential to make you money, no car will have that potential.

I view cars as objects to be purchased and go through the same process chosing them that I would a pair of shoes, a suit, or a computer. Deciding on investing is a totally different process.

[Lexusfreak]

Well no car, new or used is an investment of any kind, unless its some sort of rare classic. Cars are objects, like shoes or a breifcase not investments like say Real Estate. All cars depreciate, an investment is something that has the potential to make you money, no car will have that potential.

I view cars as objects to be purchased and go through the same process chosing them that I would a pair of shoes, a suit, or a computer. Deciding on investing is a totally different process.

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More than fair.....a large ticket item like a car is best purchased used lol just buggin! ;)

[SW03ES]

Not for my bucks ;)

Seriously though, you can make that argument for everything. Everything used is cheaper, unless its antique. Used socks are cheaper than new...but would you buy them?

[Lexusfreak]

Not for my bucks ;)

Seriously though, you can make that argument for everything. Everything used is cheaper, unless its antique. Used socks are cheaper than new...but would you buy them?

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hardly the same comparo sw. But nice try! ;)

[RFeldes]

SWO3ES,

Give it up!! You go on and on in all the threads and exclusively about this one. Canada Craig, I wish you the best, because you seem like a genuine real person. SWO3ES, you have been voted down. In these times a good used is a better investment than new. No disrespect, and you can send me another "Personnal Management E-Mail" but we are honestly in love with our 400's and 430's. I am not out of line and feel this forum is for discussion, not for management opinions of a personal nature. If you want to bounce me out, then so be it!!

[Lexusfreak]

SWO3ES,

Give it up!! You go on and on in all the threads and exclusively about this one. Canada Craig, I wish you the best, because you seem like a genuine real person. SWO3ES, you have been voted down. In these times a good used is a better investment than new. No disrespect, and you can send me another "Personnal Management E-Mail" but we are honestly in love with our 400's and 430's. I am not out of line and feel this forum is for discussion, not for management opinions of a personal nature. If you want to bounce me out, then so be it!!

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RF, take it easy now........sw, myself & whoever else want's to weigh in with our opinions on this subject. I'm not saying I'm totally right or wrong & same goes for sw. I would be courious however with a 'poll' (we like polls don't we everyone? ;) ) which members purchased their Lexus' brand new vs. used (or 'pre-owned' as some like to refer them to B) ). I'd be willing to bet cash on what camp comes out on top! :D I wonder why that is? ;) :whistles: But it's all in good fun on here & the debate will no doubt go on... just like synthetic vs. dino oil, automatic vs. manual, Dorito's vs. Lay's, Yankee's vs. Red Sox lol. It's all good.

[SRK]

It is all good after all, and that's why we are here.

New cars are great, but the rapidly depreciating asset thing just doesn't appeal to me.

My 98 GS400 cost me $44k less than the first owner paid for it (Canadian dollars). It had 94k kilometres on it at that time, about 57k miles. Aside from a few paint scratches and a spot or two on the floor mats, it looks, and most importantly, drives like a new car. I can't see how it drove any better than it does now, when it was brand new. So it cost the first owner fifty cents a kilometer, or about 75 cents a mile, in depreciation! As much fun as that car is, it ain't THAT much fun. I can buy a lot of stuff like scotch and cigars, and vacations, and things for my kids, for that kind of money. And when I sell the car, if ever, I cannot lose that much money no matter how hard I try. Its residual value will always be something.

My neighbors all think I have a new car and live beyond my means. Not that I care what they think. I still can't believe I own the thing myself. And it's a used car. Big deal. If I ever meet the first owner, I will thank him for taking the big hit and providing me such a good deal.

[Lexusfreak]

It is all good after all, and that's why we are here.

New cars are great, but the rapidly depreciating asset thing just doesn't appeal to me.

My 98 GS400 cost me $44k less than the first owner paid for it (Canadian dollars).  It had 94k kilometres on it at that time, about 57k miles.  Aside from a few paint scratches and a spot or two on the floor mats, it looks, and most importantly, drives like a new car.  I can't see how it drove any better than it does now, when it was brand new.  So it cost the first owner fifty cents a kilometer, or about 75 cents a mile, in depreciation!  As much fun as that car is, it ain't THAT much fun.  I can buy a lot of stuff like scotch and cigars, and vacations, and things for my kids, for that kind of money.  And when I sell the car, if ever, I cannot lose that much money no matter how hard I try.  Its residual value will always be something.

My neighbors all think I have a new car and live beyond my means.  Not that I care what they think.  I still can't believe I own the thing myself.  And it's a used car.  Big deal.  If I ever meet the first owner, I will thank him for taking the big hit and providing me such a good deal.

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Couldn't have said it better myself SRK! :D B)

[indiasfinest]

well my wife had a 98' chrysler minivan and it was a piece of junk. horrible A/C, tons of problems, bad engine, and not reliable. since then i have not even DRIVEN a chrisler. this seems to be the same prob. in benz to. (chrysler owns benz). one of my friends has a benz and it breaks down quite often and has is more in the shop than in her garage. i would get another lexus or anything but chrysler. and i would keep the NSX because those cars are a work of art

[SW03ES]

RFeldes has been banned for 2 weeks. I know you don't like me for some reason, and I really don't care. But you will respect my right to participate in any and all debates on this site. My position of manager is meaningless in this situation. You keep harping on that everywhere, does it make you jealous or something? I do not own this forum, I VOLUNTEER as a manager. Does that mean I can't voice my opinion or participate? You are absolutely and totally out of line. Think about that during your two week vacation.

Like I said all along its just my opinion, I have mine, others have theirs, and thats fine. Lexusfreak and I were having fun towards the end. Why RFeldes felt it was his place to step into a conversation he wasnt even a part of I have no idea.

[bartkat]

RFeldes has been banned for 2 weeks. I know you don't like me for some reason, and I really don't care. But you will respect my right to participate in any and all debates on this site. My position of manager is meaningless in this situation. I do not own this forum, I VOLUNTEER as a manager. Does that mean I can't voice my opinion or participate? You are absolutely and totally out of line. Think about that during your two week vacation.

Like I said all along its just my opinion, I have mine, others have theirs, and thats fine. Lexusfreak and I were having fun towards the end. Why RFeldes felt it was his place to step into a conversation he wasnt even a part of I have no idea.

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For post #44? I guess you read it differently than I did. :(