Help Me Choose Right! Keep The '91 & Do The Work

[Gumart1]

Here is the dilemna - I know everything I need to have my '92 fixed. Had it inspected by Lexus. It is pearl white with 153k miles. The good news is that the timing belt/water pump/belts/pulleys were done by Lexus at 120k. Engine and trans are good, no leaks. The bad news is I have a host of other issues including no AC, LCD out, one speaker out, minor oil leaks, o2 sensors, and a major power steering leak that I am still pinpointing. Slow coolant leak, 2 tires losing air, alternator dying from ps leak, power antenna dead, gas door release solenoid dead, and rf cd player broken - wow, sounds worse than it really is - actually still drives like a dream!

Now, my frame of mind is that if properly maintained these cars last a long time, and I am not afraid of high mileage Lexus', in fact I think if the car even attained the high mileage in the first place it must have been cared for to a degree. I actually like the "bragging rights" that come with the high miles (I'll never catch up to Blake though!).

I found a pearl white '93 with 230k that is in great shape all around, very well maintained except that it will need the timing belt done soon. The Seller was originally asking $5900, then $5200, and now tells me he will accept $4k as his lowest price. The car is loaded with Nakamichi and Air Suspension, and call me crazy but I REALLY love the air ride, and understand the risk here and would probably spend the $ when necessary to keep the air ride. Also, I know the '93 has the bigger brakes and tires and R134 air conditioning and a host of other improvements. Question is, are these improvements really noticeable, and do you think I should go for it and dump the '92? My guess is I could get $3k - $3500 locally for the '92 with the needed repairs.

[blake918]

I think I'd go for it! It sounds like the '93 just needs the timing belt and some premium fuel!! $4k for that car sounds like a fair enough deal! I think I'd trade it just for the air ride and Nak. I'd also keep the air ride even after they start leaking and need replacing. They're not as expensive as their reputation holds-the fronts are like $800 each and the rears are about $600 each.

Some people probably think I'm stupid for saying this, but I'll say it again-don't let the service stamps decide on the car for you. A very extensive test drive will speak a million words. My car doesn't even have the complimentary 30 check-up much less 60k and 90k services from the dealer. You make an excellent point that some minimal amount of care was given to the car to make it to that mileage. I'm so proud to say that the past 30k miles have been 100% trouble free. I've made a lot of repairs, but they are repairs that I chose to do for my own enjoyment and not out of necessity! :D

Are the improvements that noticeable? Probably not. The second air bag is an important addition though, and it seems like trac on 93-94 is not nearly as finicky as the 90-92. I only have 254k miles-I put about 25k on a year; you can certainly catch me! ;) I expect to put a lot of miles on this summer through traveling back and forth from New Orleans to Mississippi and Alabama where we have timber acerage that I'll be looking after.

I say go for it!

[branshew]

Keep what you've got.

Realistically it could be hard to find someone to buy your car for $3500 if it really needs all those things done to it. You also have to ask yourself if the '93 will be available by the time you sell yours. Let's say realistically that you'll get $3000 for your car. You'll spend another $1000 to get the '93 + another $1000 for the timing belt/water pump, + $???? to fix whatever else you discover isn't quite right. Right now you're looking at $2K + just to get into the car.

At some point in the near future you will experience problems with the air suspension (no way around it with a car thats 12 years old). Are you ready to drop another $3-4K in it to get the struts fixed if they go out? What happens when the compressor gives it up?

I'd fix your current car. You'll probably spend $1500 - $2000 doing it, but at that point it will be good as new and you'll know the history which is important. Plus, it'll have fewer miles overall. Don't buy someone else's problem.

[larryp]

If we're taking a vote, i agree w/ branshew. You know the history of what you have, and you know exactly what it'll take to get it right. ;)

[Kennyr]

If we're taking a vote, i agree w/ branshew. You know the history of what you have, and you know exactly what it'll take to get it right.  ;)

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I would keep the car you have. You have way less miles on your own car. I wouldn't even consider swapping those two cars out.

[Lexusfreak]

I think I'd go for it! It sounds like the '93 just needs the timing belt and some premium fuel!! $4k for that car sounds like a fair enough deal! I think I'd trade it just for the air ride and Nak. I'd also keep the air ride even after they start leaking and need replacing. They're not as expensive as their reputation holds-the fronts are like $800 each and the rears are about $600 each.

Some people probably think I'm stupid for saying this, but I'll say it again-don't let the service stamps decide on the car for you. A very extensive test drive will speak a million words. My car doesn't even have the complimentary 30 check-up much less 60k and 90k services from the dealer. You make an excellent point that some minimal amount of care was given to the car to make it to that mileage. I'm so proud to say that the past 30k miles have been 100% trouble free. I've made a lot of repairs, but they are repairs that I chose to do for my own enjoyment and not out of necessity! :D

Are the improvements that noticeable? Probably not. The second air bag is an important addition though, and it seems like trac on 93-94 is not nearly as finicky as the 90-92. I only have 254k miles-I put about 25k on a year; you can certainly catch me!  ;)  I expect to put a lot of miles on this summer through traveling back and forth from New Orleans to Mississippi and Alabama where we have timber acerage that I'll be looking after.

I say go for it!

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I'm leaning towards blake & it might be a good swap. In addition to what he said, before doing anything, get the owner to agree you can take the car to your mechanic so he/she can go over the car with a 'fine tooth comb' & especially to check that the problems with your current LS aren't on the one your considering. With the money you can get for yours, I think it's a pretty good deal even though the timing belt will need to be replaced. Let us know what you decide & good luck! B)

[Gumart1]

OK Guys, help me out on this - it doesn't sound so good now. Here is what the Seller just disclosed in his e-mail today from his last recent visit to the Dealer:

"THE DEALER (TOM WOOD LEXUS) HEARD A SLIGHT TICKING SOUND FROM THE ENGINE AREA....SAID TICK NOISE IS THAT OF LIFTERS AND NOT NECESSARY TO ADJUST. I HAVE ALL THE DOCUMENTATION TO SUPPORT THIS INFORMATION."

Is this a serious problem? He knows I intend to have Lexus do a complete inspection on it, and I may call the Dealer to verify that "it is not necessary to adjust". I thought a ticking is a serious problem. But he says he has documentation to support it. This would be too bad, as the rest of the car is pretty mint, seats are mint and not cracked, the rest is good, and much maintenance has already been done including even the hood supports. Thanks for the suggestions on both sides, all are good points, please keep them coming.

[blake918]

A valve adjusment is 100% normal on a car of that age and mileage. An indie shop could do it for about $500. Nothing serious at all. My valves are starting to tick a little, so I'm in the same boat too! It doesn't annoy me enough to have the work done yet! lol

It just sounds like your '92 is a rather large project! Personally, I would much rather the '93 that just needs a valve job and timing belt. I don't know how you live w/o a/c!! lol You can inspect the timing belt to see what it looks like. I changed mine at 235k because the previous owner said he last did it at 110k. I could have easily put off changing the belt for another year or two because the belt looked brand new.

I'd cross the air ride bridge when it comes time for that. You have options as far as air v. no air is concerned. I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker. If the car is sitting remotely level now, that means they were probably changed around 150k. I doubt they're the origionals, but anything is possible.

Don't let the mileage decide if the car is good or not-mileage is a meaningless number on a LS400. ;) It sounds like the '93 is a good deal.

[mehullica]

Keep the 1991. Far better overall look and feel than a 1993. Bigger glovebox & combination meter lights don't fail like the 1993. Black rocker panel look better than the color keyed ones.

[Kennyr]

A valve adjusment is 100% normal on a car of that age and mileage. An indie shop could do it for about $500. Nothing serious at all. My valves are starting to tick a little, so I'm in the same boat too! It doesn't annoy me enough to have the work done yet! lol

It just sounds like your '92 is a rather large project! Personally, I would much rather the '93 that just needs a valve job and timing belt. I don't know how you live w/o a/c!! lol You can inspect the timing belt to see what it looks like. I changed mine at 235k because the previous owner said he last did it at 110k. I could have easily put off changing the belt for another year or two because the belt looked brand new. 

I'd cross the air ride bridge when it comes time for that. You have options as far as air v. no air is concerned. I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker. If the car is sitting remotely level now, that means they were probably changed around 150k. I doubt they're the origionals, but anything is possible.

Don't let the mileage decide if the car is good or not-mileage is a meaningless number on a LS400.  ;)  It sounds like the '93 is a good deal.

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I just think if you spent the money to repair your car then you would have a nice car with lower miles and all new parts that go into the repairs. Either way your going to spend the money and either way you will have a nice car. Miles do matter. This means every mechanical component on the higher milege car has worked longer and has more wear. I'd feel much better driving around with a fuel pump that had 75k less miles on it etc. If the newer model looks and feels better to you go for it. I would at least try to get a 95 for some real changes instead of these minor changes. Crunch the numbers though. I think you are going to need a real inexpensive shop or do the work yourself to fix all your problems for a couple grand.

[Shadow]

You're jumping from one old ship to another unknown old ship and it doesn't sound like much improvement to me. Who knows when your newer old ship will start to sink and how much it would cost to fish her up? High mileage cars that appear to be in good shape can quickly turn around and bite a good fortune ($$$) in relatively short amount of time. If you like to gamble and think you might win in the end then go for it. Goodluck!

[blake918]

Miles do matter. This means every mechanical component on the higher milege car has worked longer and has more wear. I'd feel much better driving around with a fuel pump that had 75k less miles on it etc. If the newer model looks and feels better to you, go for it.

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Nearly all LS400s will face the same problems is what I was getting at when I said mileage doesn't matter-that could have been said more clearly on my part. Your climate lcd, front end bushings, a/c, p/s and alternator, steering rack, speedo needles, etc., etc. will fail just like they will on any other LS of similar age. Not to mention, if you buy from a good owner, they will have repaired most of the trouble spots LS's experience before you buy the car.

Most people here have never owned a high mile LS, so much of the advice given to Gumart is speculation, but I can assure you from first hand experience that owning and maintaining a high mile LS400 is nowhere near as taxing as one might think. My '95 with 254k miles has been a real joy to own for the past 30k miles. My '94 ES with 130k miles has been a reliability nightmare despite the mileage. Letting mileage alone depict whether or not the car is worthy is not always a safe bet.

This is all I needed to hear to cast my vote:

I found a pearl white '93 with 230k that is in great shape all around, very well maintained except that it will need the timing belt done soon.

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[UCF3]

I guess you should ask yourself if you can really afford this car. All of the repairs in the above posts can get rather expensive, and since the problems have started around the 140-153k Mileage there's a good chance a few other things will malfunction in the near future. Also, since your coming up to the next major service time(160k) I would debate whether it's worth spending another $1-3k getting the car fully operational.

I wouldn't because I'll be spending more money down the road.

[pierce1]

I guess you should ask yourself if you can really afford this car.  All of the repairs in the above posts can get rather expensive, and since the problems have started around the 140-153k Mileage there's a good chance a few other things will malfunction in the near future.  Also, since your coming up to the next major service time(160k) I would debate whether it's worth spending another $1-3k getting the car fully operational.

I wouldn't because I'll be spending more money down the road.

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I have a 92 LS Peral White with 102,00 (had 72,000) when I bought it, I have changed timing belt, water pump (didn't need but changed when put timing belt on), power steering pump, new tires, tune up). I love this car and it still looks brand new. I would spend the money on the 91, because those air suspension will be big bucks and with the 91 you know what you got already. My grey portion needs painting, I went through a car wash and it scratched the lower part. Never to that again. As I said keep your 91 and think of it as an investment, I beleive you will be glad you did. I still get looks from the newer LS owners.

[VBdenny]

I say keep yours and learn how to fix it. One thing I have learned from people here is that with a little support, we can do anything. The other car? I’d buy that to, drive it a little and decide which to sell. Or sell both and move up? Either way, you win. Nice to have you in the club.

[Gumart1]

Thanks for all your opinions. I am still up in the air, it's safe to assume that both cars will need work and that things will break every year. I think it's difficult to make a financial choice based on knowing what mine needs vs. what I don't know about what the other needs. But I do know that my steering and AC need repair and the '93 does not. His may need a future valve adjustment and mine does not. And so on. The Seller said he wants it gone fast, and it does appear that the very high mileage cars are a tougher sell, but he has come down to $3200 and I am still tempted. It's true that with a very high mileage LS all the components have gone along for the ride, on the other hand I have seen people pay more $ for very low mileage older cars that were total dogs because they were not driven and maintained. Before I discovered how good a car could be with

Lexus, we owned only American economy cars, and yet because we maintained them, they performed as good as any LS with the about the same # of minor issues over the years. I've owned 3 Saturns that were still in excellent shape with just over 200k on them. Highway miles plus a good maintenance history is a good combo vs. low city miles and a spotty record. I can afford both if I want to buy them and compare, but 3 LS's (I love my 1998) plus a Ford Explorer in a driveway and garage built for 2 is getting crowded. Of those that commented, have you driven an LS with air ride? I find that there is a noticeable difference and the ride is fantastic. I know the risks. Nakamichi vs. Pioneer on the other hand is a less noticable change to me. Blake, can you hear the ticking when you are in the car or just outside of the car, and how long does it take to become worse to the point of adjustment? Sorry for the ramblings...

[blake918]

Gumart, I can only hear it when I accelerate in the 2500-3500rpm range when the engine is cold which is once every blue moon since I usually never accelerate past 2k(since I'm cheap--want good gas econ...I can't help my Semitic roots. lol). My idle is silent though! I have no idea on how long it will take before it gets worse.

I'd run like hell from pure city miles. My mother drives strictly city miles; her daily commute is a total of about 3 miles with an occasional trip to the bank/grocery. It's murder on the cars and has killed two transmissions(in two different cars) in less than 60k miles as a result of short trips everyday.