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Can you describe this pitting better and maybe post a picture? Where is the pitting occuring.

The PermaPlate is a ripoff, they just put on a coat of polymer sealant for a 1000% markup of what a detailer would charge. What they don't tell you is it only lasta about 3 months, its long gone from the paint so I doubt that has anything to do with the problem.

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  • 3 months later...

I have a black es300, 2000 model. It was just inspected for lease return and they are charging me 600.00 because the paint is obviously failing...there are knicks everywhere, and not from pebbles or rocks! It is a failure coming from beneath the paint.

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My brother had a 87 dodge shadow when he was in college at Indiana University. There was a paper factory in Bloomington that put some sort of crap in the air...it did the exact same thing to his paint job with little pits. My 95ls is black, and the roof has little white pits in it as well. It's a super soft paint. Good to buff out stuff, but easily scratched.

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I have a 2003 black LS 430. Had perma plate done at purchase. Recently having extensive pitting of the paint. Lexus does not know what could be causing it. Anyone with similar experience.

:cries: I had an SC430 and experienced pitting. When I took it to the dealer they determined it was acid rain damage. The car was in the rain less than 10 times and never allowed to dry in the sun. Their explanation was that the paint is very soft and fragile. One of the many reasons I dumped it in less than a year.

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I have a black es300, 2000 model.  It was just inspected for lease return and they are charging me 600.00 because the paint is obviously failing...there are knicks everywhere, and not from pebbles or rocks!  It is a failure coming from beneath the paint.

When i leased my 97 ls430 (last time i leased :censored: ) when i tried to return it in 2000, they charged me over $500 to redo the right rear of the car b/c i got a dent in it the size of a marble. With leasing, you can't do anything wrong.

I do agree the lexus/toyota paint is horrible. It chips so easiely. Any why do they have a white primer on a black/blue car? It shows so easiely, and looks horible!

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All cars have white primer, its the only color primer they make.

Lexus paint is actually some of the better car paint on the market, the new environmental regs cause the paint to just plain be more brittle and chip easier. Its a problem across the board.

The black Lexus paint is single stage (has no clearcoat) so it does require more care, but if you keep it detailed twice a year you wont have any problems.

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All cars have white primer, its the only color primer they make.

Lexus paint is actually some of the better car paint on the market, the new environmental regs cause the paint to just plain be more brittle and chip easier. Its a problem across the board.

The black Lexus paint is single stage (has no clearcoat) so it does require more care, but if you keep it detailed twice a year you wont have any problems.

 :chairshot: Lexus paint is soft and not at all durable.  I would take exception to the fact that it is some of the better paint on the market.  In comparison to the paint on my MB's it is pure crap.  In addition the black on the new Lexus autos is in fact clear coated.  I own one and when you take a polishing compound to it there is no black residue; the true test of single stage vs. clear coat paint.  By the way they do make primers in a color rathe than white.

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MBs do have beautiful paint no denying that. The new ceramiclear paint is superb.

I have detailed MANY high end cars and I know their paint, Lexus does have some of the best paint out there. The only two I'd say have better are MB and possibly Audi. Modern Audis have flawless paint. BMW paint is terrible, all kinds of orange peel and uneven finishes. Cadillacs have nice paint too, believe it or not.

And no, the black on new Lexus autos is not clear coated across the board. SOME cars come clear coated, they always have. No way of knowing whether any particular vehicle will be clear coated, but most are not. I've only encountered a couple clear coated black Lexuses ever.

My dad's 98 silver LS was pristine after 160k, some chips in the front but it was a highway car. His 04 LS in flint mica is still pristine with 40k or so now I guess.

My ES is getting close to 50k, paint is perfect again save a few rock chips from highway use. It does scratch easily (i.e. soft) but it also is easily polished to correct.

The difference is care, if you stay on top of it the paint will retain its beauty. In my professional opinion as a detailer, no paint cleans up as nicely or is easier to return to a like new state as single stage Lexus black. I've seen and had some amazing transformations with Lexus SS black, cars you'd think would need a repaint being brought back 100% with just a PC.

My guess is your problems with your paint come from the fact that it IS clear coated. CC black is a real pain to care for, thats why Lexus doesn't routinely do it.

And they may make primers in colors other than white, but again I detail a lot of cars and I've never seen one.

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SWO3ES,

Got any suggestions or threads I can read up on for a 10 year old, black LS with thin paint? I've seen some of those photos of "before and after" at completion of a detail job...truley amazing! I'm not familiar with buffers "been afraid of burning paint", and have always done by hand. I usually clay bar everything first, then a coat of wax, polish, wax, polish, polish. I use Mequires stuff. But on this car, it's clear it's giong to require more maintance than my others. I just don't have the arm anymore to do all of that detailing. By the time I'm done with it, I can't even brush my teeth.

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MBs do have beautiful paint no denying that. The new ceramiclear paint is superb.

I have detailed MANY high end cars and I know their paint, Lexus does have some of the best paint out there. The only two I'd say have better are MB and possibly Audi. Modern Audis have flawless paint. BMW paint is terrible, all kinds of orange peel and uneven finishes. Cadillacs have nice paint too, believe it or not.

And no, the black on new Lexus autos is not clear coated across the board. SOME cars come clear coated, they always have. No way of knowing whether any particular vehicle will be clear coated, but most are not. I've only encountered a couple clear coated black Lexuses ever.

My dad's 98 silver LS was pristine after 160k, some chips in the front but it was a highway car. His 04 LS in flint mica is still pristine with 40k or so now I guess.

My ES is getting close to 50k, paint is perfect again save a few rock chips from highway use. It does scratch easily (i.e. soft) but it also is easily polished to correct.

The difference is care, if you stay on top of it the paint will retain its beauty. In my professional opinion as a detailer, no paint cleans up as nicely or is easier to return to a like new state as single stage Lexus black. I've seen and had some amazing transformations with Lexus SS black, cars you'd think would need a repaint being brought back 100% with just a PC.

My guess is your problems with your paint come from the fact that it IS clear coated. CC black is a real pain to care for, thats why Lexus doesn't routinely do it.

And they may make primers in colors other than white, but again I detail a lot of cars and I've never seen one.

:chairshot: I don't want to make this a career but the black Lexus that I own is clear coated. In addition on my silver MB's the primer is black, whereas on my black cars it is white. That makes little or no sense to me but who am I to question???

I will have to agree with you that even though the Lexus paint is soft it does polish out easily. That is not what I can say about the Ceramiclear paint. On the Lexus I can get rid of the clear coat scratches with a Porter Cable and "regular" Menzerna. On the ceramiclear I need to use a rotary, the most aggressive cutting pad and the new Menzerna polishes that are on steriods. In addition the key to a good finish is to properly maintain it ALL THE TIME. I really love those people who regularly take their cars through the car wash and then ask what they need to do once a year to get the scratches and swirls out. Answer: stop the car washes and use a little elbow grease.

Finally, the key to keeping the chips away is a clear bra. I have it on all of my cars and being as anal as I am, I am very pleased with the results.

Don't take offense to my previous message, since it was not meant to offend. I find the people on this forum to be the most friendly and least hostile of any that I frequent,

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Does anyone think that the exterior metal seems thin? I mean compared to other cars. i know the 745LI's metal seems very thick. It's just when you tap the hoods on Lex's they seem thin.

Maybe this is why the paint has a hard time sticking; if the metal is bending in the wind, the paint might chip etc. Just a thought; i'm probably way off lol ;)

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ikir- No offense taken at all. Have you tried the new Menzerna Caramiclear polishes?

nc- Are you sure the paint is thin? That black paint is pretty thick.

LexKid- yes, Toyota metal is quite thin. German cars have much thicker metal as do American cars IMHO. Toyota metal dings and dents very easily.

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ikir- No offense taken at all. Have you tried the new Menzerna Caramiclear polishes?

nc- Are you sure the paint is thin? That black paint is pretty thick.

LexKid- yes, Toyota metal is quite thin. German cars have much thicker metal as do American cars IMHO. Toyota metal dings and dents very easily.

:cheers: Yes I have. That is what I meant by Menzerna on steroids. I also used it on my wifes LS and compared it to the FP. The gloss is so much more brilliant than the regular Menzerna

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Ah! I missed that. I havent tried it yet, I'll have to check it out.

[/quote Owning a black car is really asking for trouble. No shocker there. I am pretty anal about my cars. I owned one black car and it was even worse than I expected. I'm only open to white or silver cars since I keep em for so long. My 91 Ls400, silver, has almost flawless paint. Perfect shine and no fading anywhere, looks like new. How is this possible? I guess Lexus painted a few right, but the original owner (who's number I found written in the owners manual) told me he washed and ran the wax cycle at the quarter wash every week for 8 years. LA car. I continued his practice since I've owned it, wash every week whether it needs it or not and hand wax 2 times a year plus run the wax cycle at the quarter wash when there. I stay away from trees and remove bird droppings soon as I notice them and get home. Someone once told me bird !Removed! and tree sap eats away the paint if left on so I freak out when I see it on my car.

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I have detailed MANY high end cars and I know their paint, Lexus does have some of the best paint out there. The only two I'd say have better are MB and possibly Audi. Modern Audis have flawless paint. BMW paint is terrible, all kinds of orange peel and uneven finishes. Cadillacs have nice paint too, believe it or not.

Yes, indeed. :cheers: See my 2002 A8L, for reference.

post-10898-1117030209_thumb.jpg

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I am the Quality Manager for the Paint Division of an American Truck company.

Depending on the manufacturer's options and the OEM's desires, car primer can be many different colors.

Each company uses a particular color for different reasons.

Most cathodic electrocoats are black or gray. These are also typically epoxy based. These will not stand up to UV rays from the sun. Remember the medium blue GM cars in the mid 80s that you saw peeling. UV rays penetrated the basecoat (color) paint and attacked the electrocoat layer. As the electrocoat degraded, the paint delaminated.

Anodic electrocoats will often be acrylic based. If so, they can be made to be many different colors. These will stand up to UV light and can be a final coating. Typically wheel rims, frame parts, brackets, etc.

Many companies will also "paint" the body with a primer surfacer. This will fill in any minor imperfections in the electrocoat and will give a nice smoothe surface to paint if applied properly. These also promote paint adhesion by incorporating a UV blocking material. These primers can be tinted to be nearly any color. Popular choices are: black, white, beige, or gray.

Companies choose primer colors for different reasons.

Some companies choose to primer a light color car with a dark primer so that they can see if they have good paint coverage. The same goes for the opposite. Dark car light primer.

Other companies choose to primer a car with a color close to the outside paint so that if their paint is thin in some areas, you won't notice it as much. This is normally in cracks, crevices, and areas with concave angles.

It all depends on if your paint is formulated to be black/white hiding, black/red hiding, or black/gray hiding. Each of these will use different amounts of paint to cover the primer.

There's more than you ever wanted to know probably. I could go on, but my fingers are getting tired. Hunt and peck is hard work.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a 1997 LS400 black, code 202. How do you know whether or not it has clearcoat? I've gotten conflicting information about it. Makes it kind of hard to buy products ;)

Also, my code reads C/TR 202/WZ01. My car is two tone, black-grey. How do I find the code for the lower part?

Thanks for any info

John

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