Buying Merc S-class,need Your Guys Opinion

[Lexus.]

I'm considering buying 2000+ S-class Mercedes. When they were new, they were alot more expensive than LS430, $84000+ vs. $55000+ but now there is not that much difference in price. A 2000 S430 Merc usually goes for around $35000 and 2001 LS430 about $31000. That's only $4000 in difference in price.

Guys what do you think about the new S-class Merc in reliability and quality?

Please give honest unbiased opinion. Don't get me wrong, Lexus is a fine car,I already know Lexus is much better in reliability and cost of maintenace, but I want to jump in to something that has more prestige, cachet, and panache for only a few thousand more...

[jvcn]

Have you seen the following article?

http://www.forbes.com/global/2004/1220/025.html

I'm certain they're well made cars, but the differences in reliability and the costs of repairs are just some of the reasons why the used prices are so similar.

Only you can judge if the things you like about the Merc are worth the extra risk and potential hassle.

I personally, am not enamored of the Teutonic products and their harsher ride. Others find the Lex to be too soft and bland. And I would never put up with regular visits to the repair shop in a $100K vehicle no matter how rich I were. De gustibus...

[dpallenman]

I'm considering buying 2000+ S-class Mercedes. When they were new, they were alot more expensive than LS430, $84000+ vs. $55000+ but now there is not that much difference in price. A 2000 S430 Merc usually goes for around $35000 and 2001 LS430 about $31000. That's only $4000 in difference in price.

Guys what do you think about the new S-class Merc in reliability and quality?

Please give honest unbiased opinion. Don't get me wrong, Lexus is a fine car,I already know Lexus is much better in reliability and cost of maintenace, but I want to jump in to something that has more prestige, cachet, and panache for only a few thousand more...

←

You mention that when both cars were new, there was an almost $30,000 price difference. Now, just four short years later, resale values are a scant $4000 apart.

So either the Mercedes took a huge tumble in value, and/or the Lexus has maintained its value.

I have never owned a Mercedes, and just only recently purchased a Lexus. However, the equalization in the value of the two vehicles tells me that the Japanese-built machine is the one to go with.

[bartkat]

New Mercedes are way overpriced in the US. IMHO.

[ronsadvice]

B) Where do you live that an LS does not have enough Penache? Wow! i always believe that the car is for YOU and not for the "gawkers" on the sideline that do not have to put up with the harsher ride etc. The car is for YOUR pleasure and, yes, I am biased but urge you to think long and hard beyond the money about a decision of this financial size. The LS is a superb vehicle - don't be in a hurry to dismiss it! Sincerely, Ron PS: Merry Christmas!

[SRK]

When you are sitting in the service area of your local Benz dealer and they have just announced the price to fix one of the problems that will arise, in a snotty and disrespectful tone that only the Germans can achieve, and your heart stops at the dollar cost, remember how much other people will admire your choice of automobile while you sit at a stoplight gasping for breath as the check engine light flashes on once again and you realize the extent of your mistake, and that will make you feel better.

I don't buy cars for other people. I buy them for me. Prestige and panache means you are buying for others. Don't do it.....

[ronsadvice]

When you are sitting in the service area of your local Benz dealer and they have just announced the price to fix one of the problems that will arise, in a snotty and disrespectful tone that only the Germans can achieve, and your heart stops at the dollar cost, remember how much other people will admire your choice of automobile while you sit at a stoplight gasping for breath as the check engine light flashes on once again and you realize the extent of your mistake, and that will make you feel better.

I don't buy cars for other people.  I buy them for me.  Prestige and panache means you are buying for others.  Don't do it.....

←

Boy is this ever a great analysis! Read and enjoy the spirit in which this is written! yes, Panache is for the other guy that does not have to live with YOUR decisions nor does he pay your bills! Take heed and stay with Lexus! Ron

[KY350]

Lexus - The S class Merc is a beautifull looking car from both the inside and outside. I believe that it is the best looking luxury car on the market bar none. You will feel good driving this car because it is beatiful and because your vehicle wears a 3 pointed star - shows that you keep up with the Jones's. If you can buy the car with a warranty that extends to the number of years that you plan to keep the car, then buy it and enjoy it as any repairs will be covered.

If you do not get a warranty, and you want to keep the car for a long time, then you should think long and hard about the less glamarous looking LS430. It doesn't have quite the street cred of the Merc in the eyes of the "old money" types, however, you won't be reaching into your pocket for expensive repair bills with the LS as often as you would in a Merc.

My best advise is to go and test drive both cars. You may totaly dislike the ride of the Lexus or the Merc and that will make your purchasing decision very easy and justafiable.

Good luck with whatever you buy and let us know the outcome.

[mobilyte]

message deleted

[90LS400Lexus]

I asked this a while back when I was considering a 1985 Mercedes 500SEL and replies were similar, but true. They are beautiful cars, but upkeep costs are very expensive, (as it is for Lexus too) but if money is no object- it is no big deal.

My uncle has a early to mid 90s Mercedes 500SEL and it is built like a bank vault. No troubles at all, but this may be an exception.

Good luck at any rate.

[HRP]

I spent a lot of time and effort into researching a new/used car in 2001 and 2 when I purchased my LS430. My son (now 43) is a car fanatic, mechanic, and general foreign (German) car expert. He said that unless I were planning to maintain the car and do the repairs, forget the Benz. I chose a new late 2002 LS430 because it was not a first year model, had a great track record, fantastic reviews, was comfortable, was manuverable (more so than the Benz, check the turning radius), had more legroom in the rear seat, was 30 grand cheaper for a better appointed car. I did not, and still do not like the exterior styling of the LS430. I prefer more classic lines like the Benz or Jag; but I spend the time behind the wheel, not outside the car. And not in the shop!!! Unless you plan to do the work yourself, or buy a really good warranty, don't get the Benz. BTW, we drove a new, loaded 2002 Avalon for a week and 1k in the late summer of 2002 in Oregon (right before purchasing the LS), got 30mpg including a trip up to Crater Lake. And seriously considered a new Avalon. It could have well been labled a 'Lexus' Avalon based on the amenities, ride, and solidity ind quietness. But I had a hankerin' for the LS. (and paid the extra 30+ grand) In your shoes, I'd sure check out the Avalon in your price range. I think you might be really favourably surprised. I saw a figure once where the LS actually lost more sales to the Avalon than any of its "real" competitors. And the interior room (even the back seat leg room) in the Avalon is quite comparable to the LS430's. Give it a look-see!

[SW03ES]

Don't buy a 2000 model, whatever you do.

The 2000 model was the first year of the redesigned body S Class and they are WROUGHT with problems, poor quality interior materials that crack and snap, body rigidity problems leading to creaks and rattles. Recalls and electrical problems. I would not even consider buying a S class unless it were at least a 2002, the first year they began to address some of those concerns.

I really don't see the desire to own a Mercedes, a BMW sure but not a Mercedes. Mercedes is totally a poseur car, all show and no substance. Cheap interior fittings, poor reliability, snotty support. For your money you get the look, and while that might be fun for a while its ultimately going to be unfulfilling as those kind of things usually are. With a Lexus you get prestige and style and the engineering and quality to back it up, with the BMW you get prestige and style and the awesome performance, with a Benz you get....prestige and style thats it.

It ultimately comes down to whats important to you, if style and outward appearance are all that matters to you then the Benz is the ultimate car.

[SKperformance]

I like the S it is smooth as silk with the airmatic suspension but can be very expensive to fix

parts are astronomical which is a mjor consideration to me.

MB has tight sensor tolerances ,so even when a sensor is good it sets off a cel easily requireing a new part such as a1200 throttle body

lots of options like door assist and trunk

rear sunshades

rear climate lcd

air cooled seats

nav

pnematic seats orthopedic adjustmants

composite hood material

hids

headlight washers

rain sensor wipers

long wheel base

**very rare** sonar guided cruise

amg package with 18 inch rims

airmatic and abc suspension trac control

memory seats

one touch button open close trunk

security extra thick panels ad glass

** rare ** rear seat recline

rear heated and cooled seats

also Right rear passenger can control the seat in front of them from the erar door to make more leg room by moving their seat forward

plus lots of other features

i prefer 03 and newer with clear headlights with projectors slight redesign body one touch keyless smart card start and locking

common issues are bad gas mileage and the front seats always crack the base shroud plastic from entry and exits

the 6 engine is slow the 430 is nice but a 500 is much more confident to drive

nav screen is way too small for me

cd updates make it expensive and they are small for onformation as it is not dvd based

good luck

to me it is a S55 or nothing

after driving that for a day

it was the first car to ever make me feel the expresion of in the pit of your gut wow it could handle and was soooo fast never mind the dynamic seats which inflate the opposing lumbar supports when going into a turn to keep you centered

lots of feature whch all cost money to get and fix

[Lexus.]

Thanks for the considerable replies.

The big reason I want a Merc is to make others go "wow". I drove 04 LS430 for a week, it hardly draws any attention or gawks from other people. You could drive a Ford and get about the same amount of reaction.

Mercedes definitely draws attention like magent, from hot chics to people that are just flat out jealous. When you say to others Mercedes S-class, not a word more is necessary. Maybe I'm being too shallow. But who doesn't buy things to impress others?

I cannot afford expensive repairs as I am a 28-year old who only makes $60,000 a year. But some Mercedes on Ebay are sold with Gold Warranty to 4 yrs/unlimited miles. Are those any good? I don't like Mercedes factory extended warranty (Starmark) because it only goes 1 yr/unlimited miles.

[RCRFAN3]

Buy the 2000+ S-class Mercedes. Then we can hear how much it cost to repair, thanks for the high dollar test!

[SW03ES]

But you're not going to get any response in the S Class either. I've driven all kinds of luxury cars, people don't care what you drive and why should they? I don't need nor do I want people going "Wow" at my car, it makes me go "wow" and thats all I'm interested in. I've gotten several comments on my car at gas stations and in parking lots mostly because of the nice finish, they're appreciated but I would keep the car nice even without their appreciation because I do it for me. Having a car that people lust over just invites road rage and vandalism. You'd need a Rolls Royce for what you're looking for, even them around here draw almost zero attention.

Around here the S classes are much more common than LS430s (I see maybe 10 a day) and I get that kind of response when I tell people I drive a "Lexus". You're overestimating the interest level of people that are not into cars, to most people a "Lexus" and a "Mercedes" are synonomous. When they see a car on the road they don't know, and don't care, what kind of car it is and don't even process. I realized this with my fiancee, if we play "what kind of car is that" she'd have no idea "a grey one". Guessing costs she thought a Kia was a more expensive car on sight than a BMW. Having lived with me for 3 years she knows more now, but thats how most people are.

Why buy things to impress others? If you live your life to do that and only to quest for things to make you appear wealthy when you're not you'll wake up one day, penniless, saying "why did I do that?". Why do you care? They don't. Walking around thinking everyone cares enough about you to be impressed because you can drive a 5 year old Mercedes is really kinda sad to be honest, because its all in your head. They don't care, trust me. If you buy the Benz, buy it for you because it makes you feel good, not because you think others will be impressed by it. You're thinking because they impress you and draw your interest that its the same for everybody and its not, thats actually a psychological phenomena its a cognitive bias called "illusion of unanimity" or the incorrect assumption that everyone feels as you feel.

*AND* Women don't care what you drive, at least no woman you would want to be with. They'll be impressed by your Mercedes until some guy with a newer better Mercedes comes along, WITH the wealth she was expecting when she met you, then you'll be history.

I'm not telling you not to buy the Mercedes, I'm telling you don't spend the money to get some sort of response or to make passers by double take like you're a rap star, that won't happen. If thats your ONLY reason to buy the S over the LS, then buy the LS and go on a $4,000 vacation with someone you care about. Live your life for you. I make almost twice what you make a year and I bought my ES rather than a 2-3 year old LS or an S class (I looked at them) because of not wanting to pay for the maintenance those cars require, I'm young like you are and I have things I want to do that are more important than making 5% of the population jealous of me. I could have afforded it, I could havce afforded a new LS or S class probably but thats not what I chose, I chose to be able to have fun AND drive a car that makes me happy.

[SRK]

Having a car that people lust over just invites road rage and vandalism. You'd need a Rolls Royce for what you're looking for, even them around here draw almost zero attention.

Interesting that you mention this fact. I know a guy locally who owns a twenty year old Rolls Royce. He just leaves it parked in the garage now, because people would spit at it and give him the finger when he stopped at a light. They would throw bits of garbage and paper at it.

When I had my Cobra replica, I got lots of admiring glances, and met people at gas stations all the time who were enthusiastic about the car. I also got lots of anger, and people flicking lit cigarette butts at me, trying to make them land in the open car, and giving me finger, and on and on.

Makes you think that a fairly large segment of the population is jealous, small-minded, and overly aggressive from in-breeding.

That's why I don't buy cars to impress others.

I mean if you want to impress women, save your money and keep the Lexus. Tie a hundred dollar bill on a string, and walk around, and sure enough some women will follow you.....

[jvcn]

But who doesn't buy things to impress others?

Well, just speaking for myself, I bought the Lex because of its restrained good looks and quality, not for the rep. In fact I considered the Q45 because it was unappreciated.

I would say that if Kia (or any other non Wow) brand produced a decent looking car with better fit and finish and reliability than the Lexus at a lower price I would get it. I actually enjoy being in cars that are underappreciated and cheap. But that's why I drive a used Lex when I could've bought a new one.

My guess is that if you're the kind of guy who gets hot chicks, you'll get hot chicks no matter what. If not, attracting them with your car means they'll latch on until they find a hotter guy.

To each his own...

[Lexus.]

Good points, SW03ES and SRK. Maybe it is pathetic to buy a Mercedes just to show off, because you guys are telling me that most people aren't going to give a dam! If they do, they'll think I'm a fool once they find out I'm not rich. It's obvious because I still look very young like I'm 22. If the "wow" factor is members of the general public messing with me because they're jealous and envious, no thank you. I've never driven a fancy car before so I dont know what it's like. Believe it or not, I've had people spill drinks on my 10 year old LS a few times while its parked at the upscale mall.

Thanks to some lucky investments, I can buy even a brand new S-class for cash, but I'm not in the same league as the ordinary S-class buyer: 50+ year old executive making $300,000+ year worth at least couple million. And after the purchase I'll be flat broke, with only thing to show for it is a flashy car that just keeps losing money. Not such a lucky investment.

BOTTOM LINE:I'm not going to buy any car to show off, no Mercedes, Cadillac Escalade whatever. Not worth cringing everytime I spend money on the car whose mission is to just show off.

I'm going to be more reasonable. A car that I'll truly enjoy driving for myself, not others, for the heart-wrenching performance and sounds. Maybe a GS400, BMW 330i/M3/530i, Infiniti G35. These cars are nice, obviously not cheap, but they don't shout "Look at me I'm rich"

[SW03ES]

There you go! And you have driven a fancy car before, you've driven your LS. Honestly, the LS is a very nice and well respected automobile that is elegant without being austentatious or showy. THATS why I like it. People who truly recognize quality respect it as that. The rest of em, why worry what they think?

Interesting that you mention this fact. I know a guy locally who owns a twenty year old Rolls Royce. He just leaves it parked in the garage now, because people would spit at it and give him the finger when he stopped at a light. They would throw bits of garbage and paper at it.

When I had my Cobra replica, I got lots of admiring glances, and met people at gas stations all the time who were enthusiastic about the car. I also got lots of anger, and people flicking lit cigarette butts at me, trying to make them land in the open car, and giving me finger, and on and on.

Makes you think that a fairly large segment of the population is jealous, small-minded, and overly aggressive from in-breeding.

Its really sad but the old line "You just can't have nice things" is very true. I've never had any vandalism done to my Lexus (knock on wood) but I had drinks poured on my previous Explorer, it was egged, and my dad's old 98 LS was keyed once and egged. We live in the richest area in the country, especially where my parents live, so its not like these cars were out of the ordinary or even close to the top eschelon. People are nasty, probably not the majority but the minority (especially kids) are very loud and active. Its just not worth driving something really over the top fancy and have to worry about leaving it places. ESPECIALLY if you keep it clean and nice because they know it has value to you.

[Lexus.]

Its really sad but the old line "You just can't have nice things" is very true. I've never had any vandalism done to my Lexus (knock on wood) but I had drinks poured on my previous Explorer, it was egged, and my dad's old 98 LS was keyed once and egged.

Why is that you just cant have nice things without raising eyebrows, making other people furious, jealous, and envious? It seems like majority of people in this world are decent and good, but also majority have a serious problem with jealosy.

[lexus400]

The guy I work for bought one new in 2000 and at last count he said it's been in the shop (it has about 50k miles on it now) a total of 38 times. He said that he's LUCKY if he goes a 60 day stretch w/o having to bring it in or have it towed in. Everything has been covered under warranty but who needs that ? Panache ? Not any more... everyone knows that they're making crap now. You're not going to feel so good picking up your dates in a loaner...

[Lexus.]

I can just pick them in a Lexus GS430 or a BMW M3. I think Bimmer is good alternative to Merc if I want Teutonic performance. Yea looks like Merc is not the same car of yester-years. They were always expensive to upkeep, but at least it was for maintenance, not these frequent problems of technological nightmares

[SW03ES]

BMWs have their problems also, but nothing like a Benz.

[90LS400Lexus]

I liked that - "ONLY $60K per year". :D

I would say that 1/2 of the USA population would love be making $60K at 28- or any age for that matter. I used to know the average salary for Americans, but have forgotten. I will have to look that up again. :) (UPDATED- see bottom of post)

I agree with SW03ES- buy a car that makes YOU happy- not someone else happy- in the long run, you will be happy. I also agree with SW- no one really pays attention to what one drives. It is just another car to them. Most of them anyway. I received compliments from my car- such as a co-worker saying- "wow, you must make really good money in your department", then I tell them- "no, it is a 14 year old car". They would have never known the difference. One other time a co-worker seen me getting out of the car and said "you drive a Lexus"? in astonishment. It did not impress me. In fact, I did not want people to know I owned a Lexus, because I did not want them to think I was bragging or anything. One time while at work, a friend asked me what kind of car I had. I hesitated and said "Lexus". A customer overheard and said that she also had a Lexus. She then asked if it was a "big" Lexus. I told her it was a LS400. She never said what she had, but I later seen her driving and she was in a early 90s ES300. I felt bad, because I did not want her to think she had a "lesser" car. With all of the quirks my car was having, she probably had the better car anyway. :D

When I bought my LS400- I bought it because I initially liked the styling. When I drove the car- I was impressed with the power and smoothness. I also agree that some people do not like people to drive nicer cars than them and they do often damage the cars. I have seen more than a few scrapes on my car in the parking lot, but I do not think it was done in purpose, nor did anyone sneer at me or any of those things. In contrast- many people driving lower priced cars simply say - "at least it is not me working myself like crazy to make the payments on those flashy cars".

As everyone has mentioned- keep in mind that upkeep is very expensive on these cars. I would opt for a LS, which is also expensive, but are more reliable. If you must have a Mercedes- go for a older S-Class- such as a 1999 or older. Better yet- 1991 or older, as the 92+ redesign is a very complex car. The 91 and older S-Class sedans are beautiful cars, as well but much more simple to work on. Just beware of the models with air suspension and timing chain replacement is critical.

If you was not wanting to impress others I would recommend these cars:

I agree with another poster here- why not consider an Avalon? I actually have been considering a Avalon myself. They are refined & comfortable cars- which have a lot of "Lexus" in them, being at the top of the Toyota line. Beware of the 1997-1999 models, with the potential "sludging" engines. Go for a 1995-1996, or even a redesigned 2000+ model- which are even more "Lexus-like".

Another good selection is the Acura Legend or 3.5 RL. Not as "flashy" was a S-Class, but a very reliable, comfortable car. In fact, the 91-95 Acura Legend rates as high in reliability as the LS400. I know several Legend owners and they love their cars. I have also been considering a 93 Legend.

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. If making others happy makes you happy- that is all that matters.

In reply to "only" $60K per year:

"Highest" top paying annual salary by location-

$63,056 (San Jose, CA) #1

$57,708 (New York, NY) #2

$56,602 (San Francisco, CA) #3

$51,170 (Danbury, CT) #4

Lowest annual average salary-

$22,269 (Jacksonville, NC)

$22,892 (Brownsville, TX)

$23,429 (Yuma, AZ)

$24,672 (Myrtle Beach, SC)

So, @ $60K- most would be very satisfied.

[quote name=Lexus.' date='Dec 26 2004, 07:29 AM

I cannot afford expensive repairs as I am a 28-year old who only makes $60,000 a year.

Edited December 27, 2004 by 90LS400Lexus