SW03ES Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 We were out running around today and decided to stop by the Lexus dealer and see if they had any 05s in stock, they did one black one with tan interior and no nav. I spent probably 20 minutes walking around it parked next to my 03 and then took it on a short test drive. I thought this would be interesting for people especially jragosta who is toying with the idea of letting Lexus replace his car with an 05. Styling: Like most Lexus it looks better in person. I now officially don't like the headlights, to me the projectors look too prominent in the large ES housings. The great thing about projectors is you can design smaller housings (like in the RX and LS) retrofitted into the ES they look strange. The grille looks better in person but I still prefer my grille. The grille definately will not retrofit into the 02-04 as the opening is slightly different. The bumper and the headlights definately will though. That brings me to the bumper, I didn't like it much in the pictures but it looks much better in person. The large single barred opening looks better than the plastic eggcrate opening in mine, and the round fogs are chrome rimmed which make them look very classy. Warming up to the front. As for the rear, the thin chrome strip above the license plate looks GREAT and I will definately add that to my car. The taillights also look great in person and look more jeweled and expensive than the 02-03's. I may make that upgrade someday but they're not really better than mine just different. Wheels: The car DOES have standard 17s, the 16s are not offered in the US, only in Japan and Canada. The 16s in Japan and Canada are our 16s. The wheels look great on the car and fill the wheel wells much better. Definately a good move, providing it doesnt change the ride. Interior: Another thing that I was more happy with in person. They changed the trim around the door handles to the lighter shade and I wasn't too thrilled about it in the pictures, but the tan interior car I set in matched it much better. I still don't know how good it will look on the black interior. The new blond birds eye maple is beautiful and very rich with a VERY nice distinct grain. I don't care for the blond wood but it suits the tan interior better than the cherry. The blond wood also comes on the grey interior (which is odd) but the black maintains the cherry wood found on the 02-04. The steering wheel w/radio controls is EXCELLENT, huge improvement and styled well. My fiancee really liked the memory passenger seat. The leather is the same quality but the perforated seats give an interesting new look. Cooled seats are okay but do not work as well as those on my dad's 04 LS, his are actually fanned and vented the ES' are not. All the materials are the same high quality ones found in the current car, I was dissapointed to find the steering wheel was not power tilt telescope like the RX and all the other cars, no bluetooth either. Also Lexus swears the tan is the same tan only with a new name but it is not, its a few shades darker than the 02-04 tan and it kind of stares you back in the face. Sort of dijon mustard in color. Drive: First out I immediately noticed what I feared, the 17s have changed the ride quality and slightly increased cabin noise. Its still good, but not as muted over bumps or as quiet as my 03. The 3.3 liter feels the same as the 04 (which has a higher note than my 3.0.) The transmission seemed to be more solid with shifts being felt firmer, but yes the throttle lag is still there just like in my 03. So if you're expecting the 05 to fix that issue it has not, but the transmission seems all around less confused. Other than that, same as my 03. All around I am happy, wont get me to trade (the salesman tried to get me to let him appraise mine) but they made some upgrades they needed to make. There have also been some packaging changes for instance you can now get the rear sunshade without the nav package. The headlamps ARE dynamically active like those in the RX and LS. The mirrors now tilt down in reverse (why they dont on the 02-04 nobody knows) I wonder how hard that would be to retrofit. jragosta- If you do let Lexus swap you out I'd insist they swap the wheels to your 16s.
Lexusfreak Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Sw, thanks for your observations......I have to check the 05's out at my Lexus dealer one of these days. Did you happen to notice what tires came with the 17's? (please tell me they are NOT Bridgestone Potenza RE 92's! :chairshot: ) Lexus told me the 05 brochures won't be available for another month or so. Are they available in the U.S.? B)
jragosta Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 That's pretty much what I figured - the 05's would have the same problem. I don't see much reason to swap if it's not going to fix the problem. There are some nice features in the '05, but if it doesn't solve the problem, I'm not sure I'd bother. Thanks for the input, though.
SW03ES Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 jrag- I'm pretty convinced that as long as they keep that electronic throttle its going to have that lurch. The GS has the same thing though. You should take one for a spin and judge for yourself, maybe the gearing of one would make it less perceptable to you. Lexusfreak- They were Bridgestone Turanza ER33s I believe. Not great. I didn't ask for a brochure...
jragosta Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 jrag- I'm pretty convinced that as long as they keep that electronic throttle its going to have that lurch. The GS has the same thing though. You should take one for a spin and judge for yourself, maybe the gearing of one would make it less perceptable to you.Lexusfreak- They were Bridgestone Turanza ER33s I believe. Not great. I didn't ask for a brochure... I haven't heard any complaints about the GS. For example, try nhtsa.dot.gov. Over the past 3 years, there are a couple hundred complaints about the ES - with nearly half of them related to the hesitation problem. There are only a few GS complaints - and I didn't see any that seemed to be related to any hesitation problem. I realize that the GS has been considerably less popular than the ES, but I'd expect SOME sign of the problem on nhtsa. I'll have to drive one some time.
Lexusfreak Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Thanks sw! I was just courious.....as in a few years down the road, I think I'll pick up an 05 model with the 17's. All 02+ models come with a factory strut tower bar I think don't they? B)
amf1932 Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 All 02+ models come with a factory strut tower bar I think don't they? Yup....that's correct.
Lexusfreak Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Excellent! thanks amf B) I thought they did, but just double checking. ;)
SW03ES Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 I haven't heard any complaints about the GS. For example, try nhtsa.dot.gov. Over the past 3 years, there are a couple hundred complaints about the ES - with nearly half of them related to the hesitation problem. There are only a few GS complaints - and I didn't see any that seemed to be related to any hesitation problem.I realize that the GS has been considerably less popular than the ES, but I'd expect SOME sign of the problem on nhtsa. I'll have to drive one some time. I've heard several people on the GS boards complain about the throttle lag and have felt it myself after test driving it. Think about it this way, whenever there is talk of problems (Lexus even sent letters home to ES owners) more people will willingly complain about a problem (like to the NHTSA). The GS is far less popular and talk of problems is few and far between, people aren't so willing to complain thinking they're the only one. Every Lexus I have driven with an e-throttle (LS, GS, ES, RX) has this lag. The GS DOES have an ECT PWR mode though which as I found on my dad's LS's really minimizes the lag.
Lexusfreak Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 sw, please tell me these aren't the tires that will be on the 05 ES with 17" tires! :cries: :chairshot: click the link as this is the only 'all season' Bridgestone tire available in the 215 55 17 size! http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp...ing=ZR&x=28&y=5
Lexusfreak Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 OMG that's aweful! The Potenza RE 92's would be a better choice!! & that's not saying much at all. When are the automakers going to learn? :chairshot:
norbertk Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 I was over at the dealer today.. I must say.. the 2005 ES is amazing! One thing not mentioned above is the seats have air traveling underneath them for a comfortable summer drive. I agree that the headlights are a bit too over-done but still quite innovative. The back tail lights are a beauty, and nicely fashioned. The metallic strip above the license plate looks bad-!Removed!. The interior of the car is very comfortable. They have done a great deal of detailing with the wood trim and overall the interior is a step up.
SW03ES Posted August 31, 2004 Author Posted August 31, 2004 One thing not mentioned above is the seats have air traveling underneath them for a comfortable summer drive. Actually I did mention the air conditioned seats ;)
norbertk Posted August 31, 2004 Posted August 31, 2004 Ahh, my bad, missed the part about the 'cooled' seats. ;)
es300man Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 Hey, for us tall people, I'm 6'3", how did the driver's seat measure up? My '93 model has never fit me as well as I would have liked. Do you think the overall interior head and leg room has increased?
amf1932 Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 The best way to tell is to take a test drive and adjust the seat all the way down. ;)
es300man Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 The best way to tell is to take a test drive and adjust the seat all the way down. ;) Wow...what an idea!! :whistles:
blake918 Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 Hey, for us tall people, I'm 6'3", how did the driver's seat measure up? My '93 model has never fit me as well as I would have liked. I agree! For us guys over 6', the ES is just too tight of a fit. :( I got a '95 LS for my everyday driver, and I'm 20x more comfortable than my '94 ES. I love driving the ES ever now and then, but the everyday thing was killing me! A guy down my street has a '03 ES, and he's atleast 6'3. Maybe they did get more room for '02+?? I've driven a '98 ES, but it seemed only a fraction larger than my first generation ES3.
jragosta Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 The best way to tell is to take a test drive and adjust the seat all the way down. ;) Or you can find car specs at edmunds.com.
SW03ES Posted September 2, 2004 Author Posted September 2, 2004 The seats/room are just like the 04, I'm 6'1" and I have no problems. There is a lot more room in the new ES than in the older ones, and more headroom than 95-00 LS400s, the 430 has more room though. In 05 they legnthened the seat bottom a little bit because taller drivers were complaining about shorter legnth. Never bothered me but I have short legs.
jragosta Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 I've heard several people on the GS boards complain about the throttle lag and have felt it myself after test driving it. Think about it this way, whenever there is talk of problems (Lexus even sent letters home to ES owners) more people will willingly complain about a problem (like to the NHTSA). The GS is far less popular and talk of problems is few and far between, people aren't so willing to complain thinking they're the only one.Every Lexus I have driven with an e-throttle (LS, GS, ES, RX) has this lag. The GS DOES have an ECT PWR mode though which as I found on my dad's LS's really minimizes the lag. I finally got around to checking it out and you're right - the GS does appear to have the same problem. So much for getting the problem fixed by moving up to a GS. Maybe the PWR mode will help enough to make it worthwhile. If they offer me one, I'll have to drive it to see if it's good enough. Imagine - 'good enough' is now the standard for the Lexus. Sad, really.
blake918 Posted September 2, 2004 Posted September 2, 2004 The seats/room are just like the 04, I'm 6'1" and I have no problems. There is a lot more room in the new ES than in the older ones, and more headroom than 95-00 LS400s, the 430 has more room though. In 05 they legnthened the seat bottom a little bit because taller drivers were complaining about shorter legnth. Never bothered me but I have short legs. Steve, how does your ES compare with your dad's 430? Is one noticably more roomy than the other--head and leg room? I agree that the 95-00 LS isn't all that big in the head room department, but it does(or it seems so atleast!) have a lot more leg room than my ES does which is what I was primarily concerned with when I was looking for a second Lexus.
es30014 Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 NOT BRIDGESTONE TURANZA ER33's AGAIN!!!!!!! :cries:
SW03ES Posted September 7, 2004 Author Posted September 7, 2004 The seats/room are just like the 04, I'm 6'1" and I have no problems. There is a lot more room in the new ES than in the older ones, and more headroom than 95-00 LS400s, the 430 has more room though. In 05 they legnthened the seat bottom a little bit because taller drivers were complaining about shorter legnth. Never bothered me but I have short legs. Steve, how does your ES compare with your dad's 430? Is one noticably more roomy than the other--head and leg room? I agree that the 95-00 LS isn't all that big in the head room department, but it does(or it seems so atleast!) have a lot more leg room than my ES does which is what I was primarily concerned with when I was looking for a second Lexus. Sorry for the late reply Blake we were visiting family for Labor Day. In size? The 430 is definately significantly bigger than the 400 and it has a good bit more headroom. As far as legroom it seems about the same.
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