Amsoil Series 2000 0w30... Synthetic Oil

[BMAN1113]

Hello...1993 SC400 here,

I would recommend everyone look into switching to a high grade synthetic oil for any age vehicle regardless of what the dealer might say. I've recently met up with various serious racing and high performance insiders. When I've had the opportunity to pick their brains one product keeps creeping into the conversation. Amsoil. They have especially been impressed with the Series 2000 line 0w30. This is supposedly some really killer sh@t. In the area of wear protection and longevity nothing even comes close. I've had a friend run it in his 94 SC400 for the last year. Amsoil recommends a change interval of 35,000 mi or one year with filter changes at 12k. Although one guy I talked to sent a sample of his batch into the Amsoil lab for analysis after 50k and the results reported no degeneration detected. Also these lab tests are supposed to give you an idea of the condition of your motor. I mentioned Mobil 1 to these guys and they just laugh. I always thought Mobile 1 to be one of the best. Apparently there is no comparison according to the people who are in the know. These people had nothing to gain by teling me about this product as they werent dealers and several of the guys I talked to didnt even know each other yet had the same advice. I went ahead and put Amsoil diffential, transmission and motor oil 0w30 in last week. It ran about $145.00 for the products alone, but from what I've heard this is probably worth while. You may want to look into these synthetics for yourself. I believe in them. The dealer and other mechanics arent neccessarily concerned with your car's longevity. Look at the marine industry. I dont think anybody still uses non-synthetic anymore and marine motors really get put through the ringer. Also, stay away from any of these oil additives!! BAD NEWS!! ..No SLICK 50!!... No Dura LUBE!! The teflon does not get hot enough to bond to moving parts and they end up clogging your filters and oil pick-up!!!! STAY AWAY!!! That news is probably well know by now though. And with Duralube its like a chroline bleachy substance that gives temporary friction reduction but then with the heat converts into some caustic material that proceeds to eat up your motor. Well gotta go. Hope I helped.

[monarch]

In the area of wear protection and longevity nothing even comes close.

What is your wear protection standard? 500,000? 600,000? 700,000? Conventional oil has taken many hundreds of Toyota's and Lexus's up to these mileages without an engine overhaul. Neither Amsoil nor Mobil 1 has ever demonstrated to the public that use of synthetic oil could make a Toyota/Lexus engine last longer than 600,000 - 700,000 miles. And after 30 years of being on the market, neither Amsoil nor Mobil have come up with a single owner testimonial of from someone who exceeded 600,000 - 700,000 miles using their synthetic oils.

I have 449,000 miles of experience with Mobil 1 synthetic in '92 Toyota pickup, but an acquiantance of mine has 477,000 miles on an '87 Toyota pickup with the same engine and he's always used conventional oil. Both of us changed the oil every 5,000 miles and used Toyota oil and air filters. Our oil consumption rates are nearly the same and both of our engines are still performing very well so both the Mobil 1 synthetic and conventional oil appear to be protecting our engines pretty much equally well. I believe both of our engines could last between 600,000 - 700,000 miles, but that is the limit because typically something catastrophic goes wrong with a Toyota engine at that mileage (e.g. a rod bearing fails)

About the only clear cut benefit of synthetic oil is slightly easier starting at temperatures

between 0 degrees F and - 20 below zero. Below approx. -20 degrees F even an engine running 0W-30 synthetic is going to have great difficulty.

[johnny3]

Does anybody with a SC-300 have a problem with noisy engine (bottom end) on start-up after sitting 8 hrs. or so? First 2 sec. sounds dry especially in cold weather. I've tryed syn. oil,5-30, but I think it was a little worse, I'm using Nippon, OEM oil filters. 50K miles on car.

[BMAN1113]

Oh well,

When I think of long engine life I'm thinking of 250-300k. You have apparently blown that out of the water. Thats really good to hear. So apparently your friend has had no problems with non-synthetics breaking down and leaving any residue sludge in the motor? I really have no experience with owning high mileage vehicles. This 93' SC400 would be the highest I've ever had at 123k. It sounds like your getting along fine and should probably ignore my posting. I just thought that it sounded like some really killer stuff and was coming from mutiple sources, who I felt to be credible, with nothing to personally gain from their recomendation. Do you happen to know how long one can expect to have an SC400 engine last with proper maintenance?

Thanks

[don_juan_miami]

i agree with you bmann, most of us dont have cars for that long, especiall anthing coming close to 500,000 miles. We car enthusiasts usually put our engines through a lot of stress, what with our lead feet and all. We are constantly on the search for better products that extend the lives of our hi-performance engines under hi temps and speeds. As far as hi mileage goes... well, we can let grandpa drive miss daisy with all the mobil1 and reg oil they want. I say, pedal to the metal my friend. Happy Hunting

Juancho

[mburnickas]

Well I am a little late in the game here, but Amsoil 0-30 has a very good base stock oil and add pkg here.

Not picking sides here but post the facts here. Amsoil nor Moibl needs to do anything here. The people(users) already know what is better. The problem is $$$ for most or the lack of understanding.

Show me an oil tests (dino) that is better then a synthetic? Not, gonna happne. And when I say syntheitc I mean a group 4 or 5 and not a group 3 hydro cracked either.

Your friend can only go that long with oil tests every normal oil change internal or he has a bypass filter.

As far added protection and longevity, yes you will get more; as to how much is intergal to your engine characterics. It is simple if you just do some homework and test the oil. If you do not testing, ANYONE is guessing here. Then their beliefs are flying around like mad..... :D

For me using their ASL was a no brainer. $45 a year for great oils tests…hmm Even if the wear numbers with the same (which they are not) with my 12K drains, the price savings and time savings are worth the $$$$$.

As per the numbers you would not have ANY problems starting an engine at –35 to –45 below F. This is the pumping temp of this oil. This oil also uses Lubrizol new additive package amd it looks like a good oil and with un-real high VI of over 190 and passes a lot of ACEA’s specs.

Is it better yup, would I use it not since there cheaper ASL works just fine for me.

[bartkat]

The proof is in the pudding. The true test is to put the competing oils in motors and run them till they break. Hours to breakdown tells more than any other tests.

Some folks are Amsoil fans and some are not. What works, at change intervals recommended by the auto manufacturer, is what works.

You won't get me to switch oil brand or type,or go to a different change interval by quoting a bunch of controlled lab numbers, or giving me a handful of magic beans.

[mburnickas]

I somewhat agree here. But even without doing any oil testing [used] etc it not to hard to narrow down the selection if not selecting one. Example, if you have oils that are low in ZDDP, low in VI, low HTHS, low in Ca, low in TBN; 1,000 to 1 these oils will perform LESS then oils with the opposite values. You can throw out the group 1 through 3 here before even starting unless you have a need for them.

I am not an Amsoil “fan” here; but, show me better oil that is equal in price and gives me the same (if not better) durability, longevity, protection & time savings and boy, will I switch ASAP.

Again I pay $45 for an oil change, and I should note that ALSO includes the oil tests. :D :) :whistles:

I disagree on the intervals since there is no proof that any customer needs to adhere to it. I have stated on the topic since I started here and not going to comment on it. I have seen oil tests on the same year as my Lexus with only 5K miles (over 58.3% less then mine) and the oils tests where horrible.

My answer to anyone would be select the two oils you narrowed it down to and then run both and see what works in your application. Run the same interval for both, etc etc. Then and only then will the truth be known to you. For me, looking at the un-used oil tests, you can select the two pretty easily. I am going for another oil tests this fall. Hopeing to get the same miles as my last drain (12K+ miles).

[BMAN1113]

Your ASL is great stuff but where the 0w30 shines is in its protection at morning start-up. It's lightness allows a protective film to remain on the parts for a greater amount of time. As I'm sure you know, most wear comes in the first 3 seconds of the day. Until the oil reaches the parts it's basically metal on metal. As for the cost, I change the oil once a year (15K) regardless of condition. That's a whopping $12 more per oil change and I'm getting the best (IN MY OPINION!..lol). $.03 per day difference. I've also cross-referenced a larger filter and change it twice a year. Some people told me I would develop leaks by moving to the synthetics. So far, I have had to replace my valve cover gaskets, as they began to ooze a little. Whether that was caused by the Amzoil, I don't know. I'd do it all over again. When replacing the gaskets the mechanic said everything looked super clean. When it's time to change-out the transmission fluid, though, I think I'm going to go with the Toyota IV. When I put my foot into it, sometimes it seems to not grab like it should. I'll admit when something doesn't work out but, "Handfull of magic beans???" This isn't "Bart's Snake Oil"... "I'm going to do exactly what the Lexus Stealership tells me to". You have tunnel-vision. Don't take their word for everything... That's a Communist mind-set. Quit being such a "good little soldier"..lol.

[mburnickas]

I agree the 0w-30 might be better at start up but I would need to run and tests to see the delta in numbers. So far the ASL is working just fine here. So far the numbers do not show that much or anything to be better at startup for the 0w-30.

The only thing I would say is test your oil here or at least I would. I am not saying you are wrong but you do not have any idea or clue on where or how the oil is performing here. Could be great or poor and you never will know.

There ASL is pretty darn close (and cheaper) then there 0w-30

VI: ASL= 178, 0w30=194

HTHS: ASL=>3.5, 0w30=3.4

Noack Volatility: ASL=5.1, 0w30=8.6

P: ASL=1100ppm, 0w30=1200ppm

ZN: ASL=1300ppm, 0w30=1500ppm

Ca: ASL=3242ppm, 0w30-3104ppm

TBN: both are >11.0

CCS: is within 8.2% to eachother

Pour is –60 and pumping is –40 for both.

Four ball is smaller on the 5w30.

If you compare the KV @ 40 or 100F, it is a slight delta here. No "0w30 shines is in its protection at morning start-up" since the numbers do not say that; nor does the CCS. For the extra $2.XX at dealer cost for the 0w-30, I do not think you are gaining anything here. But ha, I only have 5w-30 oil tests..

Also I have no clue on how you get $12 for an oil change since the 0w-30 is almost $7 per qt at dealer price??????

[bartkat]

Your ASL is great stuff but where the 0w30 shines is in its protection at morning start-up.  It's lightness allows a protective film to remain on the parts for a greater amount of time.  As I'm sure you know, most wear comes in the first 3 seconds of the day.  Until the oil reaches the parts it's basically metal on metal.  As for the cost, I change the oil once a year (15K) regardless of condition.  That's a whopping $12 more per oil change and I'm getting the best (IN MY OPINION!..lol).  $.03 per day difference.  I've also cross-referenced a larger filter and change it twice a year.  Some people told me I would develop leaks by moving to the synthetics.  So far, I have had to replace my valve cover gaskets, as they began to ooze a little.  Whether that was caused by the Amzoil, I don't know.  I'd do it all over again.  When replacing the gaskets the mechanic said everything looked super clean.  When it's time to change-out the transmission fluid, though, I think I'm going to go with the Toyota IV.  When I put my foot into it, sometimes it seems to not grab like it should.  I'll admit when something doesn't work out but, "Handfull of magic beans???"  This isn't "Bart's Snake Oil"...  "I'm going to do exactly what the Lexus Stealership tells me to".  You have tunnel-vision. Don't take their word for everything... That's a Communist mind-set.  Quit being such a "good little soldier"..lol.

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I find some of your rhetoric somewhat offensive. I've been running Castrol in car and motorcycle engines since over 40 years and changing oil and filter in the cars at 3000 miles and never ever had a problem.

[Sadistic]

We're an Amsoil dealer here, and we all run it in our cars. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's better, or spout off lab tests. I'm just going to say, we use it, we like it, and that's that. A lot of our customers have switched to it, and also agree.

[BMAN1113]

Rhetoric!!... Man I was being tame. If you found that offensive you need to butch-up..lol. Such tender people.

[bartkat]

Rhetoric!!... Man I was being tame.  If you found that offensive you need to butch-up..lol. Such tender people.

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Why are you trying to start *BLEEP* over a can of oil?

[mburnickas]

We're an Amsoil dealer here, and we all run it in our cars.  I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's better, or spout off lab tests.  I'm just going to say, we use it, we like it, and that's that.  A lot of our customers have switched to it, and also agree.

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That is great you are a dealer but I think people here and myself need more then that. Plus I do not take what dealers say “to the bank” & you do not sell product that way.

I have used the stuff for 12 years and I personally think it is the best product for the money. I was a dealer at one time but stopped for 2 reasons. #1 I get it at commercial pricing from family members so why pay a stupid few for the same thing. and #2 I get tired of Amsoil papers, flyers etc that only tell half the story.

[BMAN1113]

You cant originally be from Alabama...lol

[bartkat]

Bring it here, Tex, if it's flame games you want.

http://my.is/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=94

[BMAN1113]

What??..Are we going to the virtual parking lot... lol. Get a life.

[BMAN1113]

Not $12 for an oil change... $12 more than you per change.

[mburnickas]

Not $12 for an oil change... $12 more than you per change.

←

Sorry about that. I still do not know what you are gaining by the extra $12 based on the numbers....

[BMAN1113]

I'm gaining start-up protection. I think it's a rather big deal. That's a major known cause of engine wear. This problem has been the main motivation for the development of hundreds of oil additives over the last fifty years. Most, however, ended up having negative long term effects on motors, due to break-down and build-up. With synthetic oil you don't have that problem. So when it came to my attention that by using the 0W30, due to its light properties, engine parts encountering friction at morning start-up will have a greater amount of oil adhered to them, I'm there. Do any of your numbers show to what degree the lubricant remains adhered to parts after like a 12hr period? I don't doubt that your oil works just as good when it's flowing. I can try to find the article where I read this info. It was an independant tester who evaluated like 12 top oils and put them to all sorts of tests. As far as I know, he had no connection to Amsoil. One of these involved heating the oils to operating temperature, coating parts then leaving them for like 15hrs. to simulate cold start. They determined that by using the 0W30 there was virtually no microscopic scaring present on the bearing. The others did have scaring present.

[mburnickas]

You are partially correct; but#1 Based on the numbers from Amsoil you are not gaining much "start-up protection" if anything (as I posted before & now). Again, based on CCS; the CCs is only a slightly delta (very small and it is8.2%) and four ball the 0w-30 loses by 3% min here. If I am missing something please show me since there data says otherwise.

I posted these before; This is the data from Amsoil and un-used oil tests.

VI: ASL= 178, 0w30=194 (more VI needed in 0w-30)

HTHS: ASL=>3.5, 0w30=3.4 (ASL wins)

Noack Volatility: ASL=5.1, 0w30=8.6 (0w30 uses more oil overtime)

P: ASL=1100ppm, 0w30=1200ppm (0w-30 wins by 0.083 %)

ZN: ASL=1300ppm, 0w30=1500ppm (0w30 wins by 13.3&)

Ca: ASL=3242ppm, 0w30-3104ppm (ASL wins by 4.2%)

TBN: both are >11.0 (no winners)

CCS: (winner 0w30 wins within 8.2%)

Pour is –60 and pumping is –40 for both.(no winners)

Four ball is smaller on the 5w30. (ASL wins)

Flash Point: (winner is ASL).

Again, looking at the KV there is a minimal delta and I mean small.

KV @ 100: ASL is thicker at 100 C by 3.44% +(which is better)

KV@40:ASL is thicker at 40C by 14.5%; but look at the pumping and CCS. Again, too small to worry about. Based on these numbers it is too small and if you are not testing the oil to see who really wins, you are trusting there papers; which I would not. The thinner oil might help and might not. Again, without testing here, you are guessing.

It is not worth the extra money. Plus the 0w-30 does not pass the 505 spec and is not Energy Conserving II formula.

#2 Synthetic CAN have negative long term effects; hence look at me with there ES300 sludge engine. I would have high TAN, low TBN, high OXD and NOX over some internal of miles (for me it would be around 17K miles approx). I personally can’t /would not make a global comment like that since it is incorrect.

So if you think, stress think here, their 0w-30 is the best oil that is great. But based on the numbers it is overpriced for what you get. I would stress again, test your oil since you are not really seeing the picture here nor the data involved.

[Sadistic]

We're an Amsoil dealer here, and we all run it in our cars.  I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's better, or spout off lab tests.  I'm just going to say, we use it, we like it, and that's that.  A lot of our customers have switched to it, and also agree.

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That is great you are a dealer but I think people here and myself need more then that. Plus I do not take what dealers say “to the bank” & you do not sell product that way.

I have used the stuff for 12 years and I personally think it is the best product for the money. I was a dealer at one time but stopped for 2 reasons. #1 I get it at commercial pricing from family members so why pay a stupid few for the same thing. and #2 I get tired of Amsoil papers, flyers etc that only tell half the story.

←

Actually, you don't need more than that from me, since you're not my customer, and I'm not trying to sell it to you. If you were standing in my show room, that would be a different story. I was just making the comment that yes, there are others out there that use it, and believe in it. I wrote my statement like I did, to make note of my agreeing that it's a good product, but to NOT get involved in the childish bickering that was about to ensue. That was the reason for my vaugeness.

With that being said... Amsoil could probably lower their prices if they didn't send out 30 flyers a month to each of their dealers. I completely agree with you on that one. They spend far too much on literature that says the same thing over and over, and it's rather annoying.

[mburnickas]

I know but most times (in general), the dealers only know about the oils from what Amsoil writes or states. If someone asks a question outside of there pretty flyers or books on P, Zn, CA, Tan, TBN, base oils, add pkg manufacture, etc etc 99% of them will not know. Our ask them if there new oils contain calcium-magnesium overbased sulfonates or what kind of esters it contains. They will not know or have a clue here. Nevermind the “upline and the down lines”. It is all flat out a joke I feel.

Product good/very good; complete administration and business practice are not.

Amsoil loves to not finish the story with there tests in there flyers. The only print what makes Amsoil stand out and not the complete story. Most times they do not even post all the data either. Nevermind if you ask the TS managers (Ed or Darryl) if there oils can really go 25K drains. Nope since it is not real world situations and most times the oils will not last that long. These drains are in ideal conditions.

I used to believe in there product 100% for all/every application, but the more and more I read, the stone is getting chipped away.....fast.

[BMAN1113]

I'm not going to pretend to understand all the numbers being posted. I know but I don't know. I'm guessing Ca= calicum ... Zn= zinc... ppm= parts per million... 8% difference sounds significant to me. Too bad I don't know what CCS stands for..lol. I'll look it up. Mburn, are these numbers are from new oil... or what ?? You say I have to test my oil, but won't that just give feedback on the condition of my particular engine. Two Sc400's could have completely different analyisis results... I think.. hell I dont know. Sadistic, jump in and join the mix. Nuetrality will get you nowhere and maturity is far over-rated anyway. What makes Ow30 "severe service". Would you buy ASL over Ow30 and why? Do you think Mburn has accounted for everything?